General News about Frederik, Mary and Family Part 19: September 2023 -


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Hmm, what I do not get here in the thread are insinuations about a possible abdication of Frederik as a Crown Prince and future Monarch!

I wonder how a hypothetical renunciation could be given legal effect in practice.

There are two ways an heir can forefeit his succession rights in Denmark. The first one is to marry without the consent of the monarch in council. That possiblity doesn't apply to Frederik, who is already in a consented marriage, and cannot marry Ms Casanova (at least not until he gets a divorce first). The second possibility would be for Frederik to leave the Evangelical Lutheran Church, but, again, there is no indication that he plans to do that.

Other than those two scenarios, Frederik's right to inherit the throne is enshrined in the Danish Succession to the Throne Act, which can only be changed, as far as I know, by a constitutional amendment requiring in turn a popular referendum (as was the case in 2009 when equal primogeniture was introduced).
 
Last edited:
Only when it's a crime?
So, if someone starts to question how faithful you are to your spouse, a concrete proof of you being unfaithful is not needed, because it's not a crime?
And you can be "judged" stupid, reckless, irresponsible etc. based on someone else's moral standards?
And that's perfectly okay?
I will not agree to that.

Are you handing someone major cause for suspicion that you aren't faithful to your spouse, like taking care to conceal your overnight stays in a foreign country?

Then it's up to you to defend yourself, or get a better explanation out there. Frederik doesn't seem to be in a rush to make himself look better.

And yes, technically, innocent until proven guilty only applies in a court of law — and not in every country. Only after being arrested or arraigned and charged with something and put in legal jeopardy; Frederik is a free bird. And while defending yourself, you need evidence and a counterargument, or your presumption of innocence won't hold. You can't just do nothing. That's why it's only applicable to crime.

Those who want to believe Frederik did nothing wrong here are free to do so. Those who want to believe he was either staggeringly stupid or this is exactly what it looks like, or both, are also free to do that.
 
Last edited:
Frederik is NOT a victim. He's a reckless, thoughtless 55 year old man who clearly doesn't know better.

One does have to feel sorry for HMTQ, Mary and the teenage kids.


This.

He put himself in this position, no one else is to blame. Affair or not, his wife is already exposed by his reckless actions. W can only hope he has learnt his lesson.
 
I'm seeing lots of cultural differences on this board for how this is being viewed. I've been checking the Danish papers daily to see if this is being mentioned there but it is not really. For me, there is no proof of anything wrong. Innocent until proven guilty. I can understand why some people see a man spending time, and a short night, at a females place might be salacious. But without proof of an affair it really isn't. Where I live, and amongst my social group, this is normal.

ETA: we also don't know if F&M have an open relationship or other arrangements. Many(and I mean many) modern, and older couples, have unique arrangements for their relationships(especially amongst the upper classes). And if they do, they do not need to publicize it and the media (and people) should mind their business'.
 
Last edited:
Are you handing someone major cause for suspicion that you are faithful to your spouse, like taking care to conceal your overnight stays in a foreign country?

Then it's up to you to defend yourself, or get a better explanation out there. Frederik doesn't seem to be in a rush to make himself look better.

And yes, technically, innocent until proven guilty only applies in a court of law — and not in every country. Only after being arrested or arraigned and charged with something; Frederik is a free bird. And while defending yourself, you need evidence and a counterargument, or your presumption of innocence won't hold. You can't just do nothing. That's why it's only applicable to crime.

Those who want to believe Frederik did nothing wrong here are free to do so. Those who want to believe he was either staggeringly stupid or this is exactly what it looks like, or both, are also free to do that.

Alas, being unfaithful is a crime in some countries, sometimes with very dire consequences.

If I'm unfaithful to my wife there will a number of personal consequences, including a possible divorce. But that's it, it will make no impact in regards to the country.
With a crown prince it's different and that's point I'm failing to put across: Be critical of the sources and in this case apparently with good reason. Because the whole thing becomes more and more questionable especially considering the admitted ethics of the Spanish media.
Even if I wanted, which I naturally don't, Frederik to be proven unfaithful, I can't trust anything. I can't trust the photographers. They have a motive in blowing this up: Money.
I sure don't trust the magazines. They blame QMII with some Mickey Mouse story that is she didn't want to silence the story it must be because she don't want her sons to succeed her or something like that. It's bizarre.

Fair enough you can believe he was unfaithful, you can think he was careless and stupid, but please, would you at least consider that the whole thing may be more or less fabricated? Before having a go at Frederik.
This is his reputation both in DK and globally that is on the line because this story won't go away.

And then there is Miss Casanova who was unknown to me until this story came about. She was twice called a prostitute. (A concubine and a courtisane to be exact). I was one of the very few who objected. That's when I really began to question the whole thing.

It is my deepest conviction that if people are not proved to have done something wrong you have to let them get the benefit of doubt.
They may be stupid, careless, arrogant etc. but when they are also attributed all sorts of motives while photographers and the magazines motives and narrative is not questioned at the same time, then you must expect to be challenged.
None of us here on TRF really knows what happened. We can't be sure the photographers are telling the truth nor can we be sure of the timeline. It's not the gospel truth.
We can't even be sure of the context of the quotes by Miss Casanova.

So when someone starts to include "his reputation", that's when you really must expect to be challenged.
AFAIK no one has ever produced any irrefutable evidence for Frederik being unfaithful to his wife.

So yes, this offends and angers me, because gossip and rumors is a really nasty weapon to use against someone.

And I urge again: Be careful before jumping to conclusions.

PS: One more time: Should Frederik ever be proven to have cheated on his wife I will write my unreserved opinion about that here on TRF. That's a pledge.
 
Yes there have been rumours about cheating, that Fred was still involved with Bettina Odum (I think as he has had a lot of girlfriends before M) while starting a relationship with Mary. Then the incident with the twins and then I recall that Frederik was on a boat in Australia with a friend of Mary touching her bottom.
Again, a possible cheating is not my issue. My issue is reckless behaviour in public that leads to specualtion and rumours.

Oh yes the Oct. 2009 boat with the brunette. Looking back on this forum, i believe you brought this story.
Never mind, that this was later shown that it was a friend of Mary's, Kylie Matthews, and that there were other people on the boat with them. Nah the magazine just sold the cropped out version first for the story.
https://ekstrabladet.dk/underholdning/kongelige/danskekongelige/article4199038.ece

It's not like magazines would publish and crop a photo.
https://i.prcdn.co/img?regionKey=SuQEBT10oDulLkXYxe9XkA==
original photos with women's husband right next to them.
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/e5/d0/c2/e5d0c2014b63689f20dd4c32c930d846.jpg
Nah, Frederik for some has a "reputation" and no other explanation is valid.

Sorry if I dont believe what the press publishes as absolute truth. sorry if I keep an open mind and use some logic in my thinking. that doesn't make me a "Frederik lobbylist". just trying to deal with facts. :flowers:
 
Last edited:
Fair enough you can believe he was unfaithful, you can think he was careless and stupid, but please, would you at least consider that the whole thing may be more or less fabricated? Before having a go at Frederik.
This is his reputation both in DK and globally that is on the line because this story won't go away.

...

PS: One more time: Should Frederik ever be proven to have cheated on his wife I will write my unreserved opinion about that here on TRF. That's a pledge.

Okay; yes. Questioning sources and motives is always a good thing. But not everything is Spanish-media generated.

Why was Frederik so careful to take this trip incognito and with Mary away? Why the multiple stories for him being with GC? Yes, there are potential explanations for all of that, but like Frederik sleeping over, this isn't something the Spanish press had to make up (no; Hola ruining Lecturas' exclusive doesn't count). Just the facts as we have them.

If this is fabricated — then why hasn't the unholy wrath of the DRF PR and legal team done some pushback by now for unfairly maligning the reputation of the heir?

I hope you don't have to excoriate Frederik on here. I would be sad for you and other people in Denmark.

But just because it's unpleasant gossip generated by unpleasant and inconvenient facts doesn't mean this story should go away. Don't you believe Frederik would be better served by an explanation and assumption of responsibility if he is innocent, and some degree of apology otherwise?
 
Last edited:
Okay; yes. Questioning sources and motives is always a good thing. But not everything is Spanish-media generated.

Why was Frederik so careful to take this trip incognito and with Mary away? Why the multiple stories for him being with GC? Yes, there are potential explanations for all of that, but like Frederik sleeping over, this isn't something the Spanish press had to make up (no; Hola ruining Lecturas' exclusive doesn't count). Just the facts as we have them.

If this is fabricated — then why hasn't the unholy wrath of the DRF PR and legal team done some pushback by now for unfairly maligning the reputation of the heir?

I hope you don't have to excoriate Frederik on here. I would be sad for you and other people in Denmark.

But just because it's unpleasant gossip generated by unpleasant and inconvenient facts doesn't mean this story should go away. Don't you believe Frederik would be better served by an explanation and assumption of responsibility if he is innocent, and some degree of apology otherwise?

If me and my spouse had very busy schedules that kept us apart already when we are in the same country then taking a little personal trip when one spouse is away is the perfect time so it doesn't impede on personal time together when you can be. Imagine the alternative headline, Frederick leaves Mary alone in Denmark to have a weekend away with his friends and see art and flamenco.

Also, this isn't really a big story. Outside of royal-centric social media and a few initial headlines, the story has fizzled, because there is no story. There is no need for the DRF to respond to everything nor to offer explanations on how they choose to spend their personal time. Frederick has always loved flying under cover and avoiding as much official ho-ha as possible. That's nothing new. He is allowed to have a private life.

Now as Muhler said, if Frederick had an affair and there was proof and it was acknowledged, that's different. But there is nothing here so far. Truly nothing. Yet people have already crucified Frederick, want him to grovel, are already wanting Mary to respond and act a certain way to it. Imagine being Mary, who lets say knew where Frederick was staying and had no issue with it, is now being victimized and told that she should not put up with it and needs to make a statement or scene. How ridiculous.

It's fine to not like that Frederick spent the night at a single female friends place. I understand that is culturally unacceptable in many places. It does not indicate an affair or a need for a crusade against Frederick.

Benefit of the doubt, innocent until proven guilty.
 
Okay; yes. Questioning sources and motives is always a good thing. But not everything is Spanish-media generated.

Why was Frederik so careful to take this trip incognito and with Mary away? Why the multiple stories for him being with GC? Yes, there are potential explanations for all of that, but like Frederik sleeping over, this isn't something the Spanish press had to make up (no; Hola ruining Lecturas' exclusive doesn't count). Just the facts as we have them.

If this is fabricated — then why hasn't the unholy wrath of the DRF PR and legal team done some pushback by now for unfairly maligning the reputation of the heir?

I hope you don't have to excoriate Frederik on here. I would be sad for you and other people in Denmark.

But just because it's unpleasant gossip generated by unpleasant and inconvenient facts doesn't mean this story should go away. Don't you believe Frederik would be better served by an explanation and assumption of responsibility if he is innocent, and some degree of apology otherwise?

Well, as we have discussed before there can be a reasonable explanation for pretty much everything. He is having an anniversary present for Mary made by a jeweler in Madrid or he is visiting his tailor... :whistling:
He could easily fly commercial, it might actually have been wiser, but that's another discussion for another thread. But he may merely have accepted when given the option of flying a private jet. If I ever got such an offer, I might be tempted to accept as well.

Miss Casanova's quotes, (if correct do we have them on video or tape?) are to put it mildly unfortunate! It might very well have been a misguided attempt to protect him. If you are caught lying, even with the best intentions in mind, is tends to backfire.

We don't know whether the DRF layers aren't on this already. But of course they need to consult Spanish lawyers and that takes time. Personally I don't think there will be a lawsuit. I think the DRF will as usual try and silence this to death and accept the damage it has made. By next year most of this will be forgotten.
For heavens sake even the Swedes have their problems right now. And they are potentially worse! Another year, another scandal in one of the royal families.
Had the ethics, or lack of it, in regards to Spanish media not surfaced, I think the best option would have been to be open about it and simply tell the truth, whatever that is. Some won't believe, some will believe and some won't care.
Unfortunately communication isn't exactly the strongest point in the DRF anymore.
At some point in this thread it was rumored that the SRF took a personal interest in this. Considering the timing and place and that they actually know each other well, I find that pretty believable. Perhaps they tried to help? Perhaps they sounded out what was up and down in this? Perhaps it was indeed just a rumor.

I think one of the few luxuries senior royal really treasure is when they can be "normal". No limelight, no press, no formalities and no shadowing security. Can't say I blame them. These are things we take for granted. Perhaps that's an explanation for Frederik's behavior?

I sure don't hope I will ever comment on Frederik (or Mary for that matter) being unfaithful. I sincerely wish they will live a happy marriage and be in love all their lives. Some people are in love all through their marriage and that is a beautiful thing I hope for everyone.
But I will not comment on a possible unfaithfulness here because I have to and because I was wrong. In such a case I will comment because I mean it.

And you can rest assured I have played the Devil's advocate in this matter, albeit not on this thread, didn't think it was necessary...

Well, that's it for tonight. It's late Friday and it's time for our dog to walk me before bedtime.
 
Last edited:
The second possibility would be for Frederik to leave the Evangelical Lutheran Church, but, again, there is no indication that he plans to do that.

So, Frederik is in the Church? I am just asking, because I thought, he always leaves the official prayer services before the rites are completed and that he visits at all, is is owed to his politeness, since he is not religious.
 
So, Frederik is in the Church? I am just asking, because I thought, he always leaves the official prayer services before the rites are completed and that he visits at all, is is owed to his politeness, since he is not religious.

Yes, he is an official member of the Church. He doesn't have to be personally religious. It only suffices that he doesn't publically join in communion with another church (like becoming a Roman Catholic for example).
 
When I travel internationally…

…I always like to ask people what they think of their royal family- I’m always interested, and maybe sometimes I’ll get an interesting tidbit. Never happens! I recently encountered a young Danish woman working in Austria and casually asked if she had seen pictures from Christian’s birthday party. She asked how old he was and said, ‘he’s too young for me, I really don’t know anything about the family.’
 
Meh... dissapointing.
 
Last edited:
This.

He put himself in this position, no one else is to blame. Affair or not, his wife is already exposed by his reckless actions. W can only hope he has learnt his lesson.
I agree.
I would have thought he was smarter than this.
This whole incident shows very poor judgement and a lack of respect for his family and his country.
Whether or not something occurred is irrelevant. In his position appearance is everything.
 
Do you really think that when Frederik and Mary posed for Vogue magazine and showed their love and their wonderful family that it wasn't a business relationship? They (I think) did not make money for it, but the report served to sell their image, and the magazine made money from it.

The Danish Royal Family often gives interviews to the media, so they are also part of that game. They do it because they are interested in projecting an image and having related media to take care of them. But do they treat all media equally? Or are there private media outlets that are constantly favored by the Royal Family over others?

Lecturas magazine was not the owner of the images, the owner of the images is the GTRES press agency, and they put those photos on the market that have been purchased by Lecturas magazine and other foreign media. The price of the photos is set by the market, the importance of the news and the number of international media that may be interested.

Important people and famous people remove photos from the market when they are interested, they only need two things: friendly journalists to inform them of the existence of those photographs and money to pay for it.

You are making this story crazy and inventing an extortion that has never existed, simply because NO ONE has offered the photographs to the Danish Royal House... but from the first moment it was said that Genoveva asked the friend who informed her of the existence of the photos, what was the price of the photos.

The conclusion of the Spanish press, knowing how the business works, is that if the Danish Royal House had had any interest, they would have had the possibility of avoiding this scandal.

Paparazzi take photos, press agencies market them and magazines buy them. If you are a public figure and you are unlucky or irresponsible enough to be caught by a paparazzi in a situation that is damaging to your image, you have two options: try to negotiate with them so that these images are not published or endure the scandal. And many, if they have the financial means to do so, prefer to remove the photos.

Very enlightening, thank you! :flowers:
 
Yep. The "bloom is off the Rose" regarding Frederik and Mary's jazzed up love story for me, anyways.

And that's ALL on Frederik. Very disappointing, irresponsible and immature behaviour. Didn't seem to give a damn about the optics or potential fallout either

Life changes. People change. They have a lovely Family and it seems partnership, and Mary is, in my opinion, a great working Royal for Denmark. A+ Asset.

But the lovey-dovey stuff ? Like Mary's sugary speech to Frederik at his 50th Birthday Gala in 2018? Where She called him "my man" and "I'm so glad you swept me off my feet"......I'm just not buying that now. I feel bad for her. And to have to have soldiered on, at the State Visit of Felipe and Letizia could NOT have been easy. As this hit ? Must have been challenging.

Which in the scheme of things, what works for them is what matters. TO successfully, professionally and responsibly represent Denmark and raise their Family. Those are the important things.
 
Last edited:
Geez. People sure are almost giddy that "the bloom is off the rose" and that the fairytale is "cracked" and the made up lovey stuff. Almost as if some are relishing that in their minds M&F have been taken down a notch.

Even without anything being concretely proven.
 
Izzie. I am not relishing anything. I said "for me anyways".

Frederik spent the night recklessly at another woman's house. In a foreign Country. Without his Security Team. A single woman, " allegedly " earned or not, with a reputation. I don't know. That's the reporting. I can't vouch for accuracy there. I actually feel like SHE is being unfairly scapegoated !

I feel BAD for her. She's not married, OR a future Monarch that is supposed to show discretion and judgment about perception and be mindful of lurking paparazzi. Looking to score a story. A big bucks headline.

Genoveva, that the original Story said, was NOT supposed to even be there. The original 'friend' he was visiting suddenly came down with Covid it has been alleged. She, Genoveva Cassanova, THEN stepped in to show him around a Picasso Exhibit, they then went to dinner.

Fine. No harm. No problem, there. Who would care ?
Then, it gets problematic. He then spent the night at her place ? Why ?

WHY did Frederik spend the night with her ? She WASN'T even supposed to be there in his visit to tour a Picasso Exhibit. RIGHT?

So there IS the "scandal". The terrible optics.
The big question. Why did Frederik change his accommodations ? Because he did. And foolishly and recklessly opened himself up to ridicule and questions about his judgment.

And nothing has been disproved either. The pictures speak for themselves from that next morning.
 
Last edited:
And to have to have soldiered on, at the State Visit of Felipe and Letizia could NOT have been easy.

Yeah, good, that you bring this up again! It was the first Royal State Visit from Spain to Denmark since decades - and then this! This alledged affair between the Danish Crown Prince and a Ms. Casanova has then even happened in Spain! My...

I mean, considered this, they all made a brave and bella figura.
 
This thread is interesting to me because imo we are dealing with cultural differences here. It seems to me that the relationship between the Danes, the Danish press and the Danish royal family on one hand is different from the relationship between the Spanish people, the Spanish press and the Spanish royal family on the other.

I´d assume (I obviously don´t know) that the Spanish royal family in a similar situation would definitely have bought the pictures in order to keep them from being published. That is the way they survive in their specific cultural environment and they know that they would be blamed by the public if they did not, independent of the question whether there was an actual story (like an affair) behind these pictures or not. It seems that the Spanish public clearly expects them to avoid any appearance of impropriety. (I think that is the standard that is being applied also to judges but I may be wrong here.)

The Danes and the Danish press, on the other hand, care more about if what actually happened was improper. They will go after their royals if they actually mess up but do not hold them responsible for how things appear to be.

It seems to me that when QMII had the opportunity to buy the fotos in order to prevent publication she decided to stick with the Danish way of doing things. The problem with that is that the DRF - obviously – will be viewed and criticized not just by their own press but by the international public and the international press. As is visible in this thread, everybody will apply their own standards to the situation and judge them accordingly.
On the other hand, once you change your strategy of dealing with things your Danish way, you give up your own standard. Once you start making statements or buying pictures, there is no going back. It is a difficult situation for QMII and the rest of the family, I do not envy them.

That being said, it is true that royals are accountable to the people they are getting taxes from. But in this case, it is the Danish people who pay, not the Spanish or the British or the Dutch etc. I think for that reason that their opinion on this matter should be more important than that of anybody else.
 
It's really not like that. In Spain, buying the photos would have worked 20 years ago, with a different type of press and a different type of public opinion... today the philosophy is more if you don't want you to get caught, don't do it.

The situation in Denmark reminds me more of that Spain of years ago, with a press that protected because in exchange they had certain privileges, and that leads to members of royalty acquiring a certain feeling of impunity that leads them to be irresponsible. Because they know that even if they are irresponsible, they will have a sector of the press that will protect them or will collaborate in cleaning up their image.

While 20 years ago the Royal House had its "friendly" journalists or media, Felipe and Letizia marked their distance and treat all media equally, that is why they do not grant interviews, and if they do something it is open to all media or through public media. Partly for them it is negative because they can only show themselves through their actions and speeches, but it also prevents them from owing anything to anyone. They are aware that they must be responsible for their own mistakes because the press is not going to save them.

More than a change in the press or public opinion, it has been a change in the way the Royal Family works.
 
Last edited:
today the philosophy is more if you don't want you to get caught, don't do it.
But as we speak we do not have any proof that Frederik actually did anything.

He is being blamed for "the optics".
So "don´t do it" is obviously not sufficient.
 
But as we speak we do not have any proof that Frederik actually did anything.

He is being blamed for "the optics".
So "don´t do it" is obviously not sufficient.

It is quite sufficient; if he wouldn't have slept at her house, the optics of this wouldn't be nearly so bad.
 
It's really not like that. In Spain, buying the photos would have worked 20 years ago, with a different type of press and a different type of public opinion... today the philosophy is more if you don't want you to get caught, don't do it.

The situation in Denmark reminds me more of that Spain of years ago, with a press that protected because in exchange they had certain privileges, and that leads to members of royalty acquiring a certain feeling of impunity that leads them to be irresponsible. Because they know that even if they are irresponsible, they will have a sector of the press that will protect them or will collaborate in cleaning up their image.

While 20 years ago the Royal House had its "friendly" journalists or media, Felipe and Letizia marked their distance and treat all media equally, that is why they do not grant interviews, and if they do something it is open to all media or through public media. Partly for them it is negative because they can only show themselves through their actions and speeches, but it also prevents them from owing anything to anyone. They are aware that they must be responsible for their own mistakes because the press is not going to save them.

More than a change in the press or public opinion, it has been a change in the way the Royal Family works.

Amen to that!

I remember that F&L posed exclusively for El Pais in 2006 on the occasion of the 25th anniversary of the PoA Awards. There was such an outrage among the press that they obviously decided never to do that again.
 
It is quite sufficient; if he wouldn't have slept at her house, the optics of this wouldn't be nearly so bad.
The optics, yes.
But my very point was about the difference between the optics on one hand and the essence of what he did on the other.
 
The optics, yes.
But my very point was about the difference between the optics on one hand and the essence of what he did on the other.

You're using sophistry. Are we supposed to blame him for the appearance of not having had an affair, or for completely lacking awareness in the way his conduct could be portrayed?

Such a high public profile means your life is almost entirely about the appearances of what you do.
 
:previous: Sophistry?! ? As if the very argument of "if you don't want to get caught, don't do it" is not sophistry.

It's perfectly possible to think Frederik committed a massive blunder by putting himself in this situation but also remain sensible enough to not blame him for something there is absolutely no proof whatsoever that he has done.
 
Can someone please explain to me how Frederik was able to travel without any security? I thought personal protection was a 24/7 deal ... especially when travelling? How did he even get out of Denmark?

The whole thing is very odd.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom