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  #21  
Old 11-28-2017, 05:29 PM
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The link to Diana's sapphires raise the question for me about wedding gifts of jewels and their ownership. Many of her sapphires were part of a wedding gift from Saudi Arabia. The queen was given several parures and, I believe, some loose jewels, as wedding gifts from foreign nations. I've read that the queen's jewelry gifts, because they come from foreign nations, are not really considered private property. She can't give them to another family member, since it would likely end up passed down in that branch of the family and essentially be lost to the BRF. But was that because she is the monarch or entirely because of the giver? What about Diana's gifts from the Saudis (and any others from foreign states)? Were they her own property or the crown's? Either way, I guess they could be fair game for making something for Meghan to wear, but would that jewelry be hers or essentially a loaner?
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  #22  
Old 11-28-2017, 07:12 PM
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Official gifts are official and belong to the firm/BRF/Trust. I don't know that we have ever discussed if, for example, the Saudis could gift to a trust or a Duchy, rather than to the main Trust. So, Camilla's parures might have been able to be donated to Wales. But why do that? Someone correct me if I am wrong.

There are limits to what can be accepted as a personal gift. A couple of years ago I could find the link for that in 10 seconds on the BRF webpage. Today, it is more of a fishing expedition. But the limit is relatively low in value. Personal jewels of value can be personally owned only when from personal close friends/family. Charles is the one doing the most gifting these days, as far as I can tell.

Realistically, I think Her Majesty is happy with the BRF member using the stuff as given and for their lifetime. But it belongs to the crown. I think Camilla will do that as well. Equally realistically, the days when big guns are given are diminishing for a lot of good reasons.
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  #23  
Old 11-28-2017, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Claude View Post
Wish List:
Wedding Tiara - Spencer Tiara
Starter Tiara(s) - Cartier Bracelet Bandeau Tiara or Sapphire Bandeau Tiara or Queen Mary's Diamond Lozenge Bandeau Tiara
Big Gun Tiara - Delhi Durbar Tiara
Other Tiara - Purchased Tiara, preferably no sooner than 5 years after marriage if at all

Of course I know that there are potential issues like some tiaras may no longer be at the monarch's disposal but these are my preferences assuming the jewels are available and any other barriers can be dealt with.
I tend to believe that, as long QEII is on the throne, it is unlikely that MM will have more than one tiara at her disposal on a regular basis. She won't have more than two or so tiara events per year anyway.

When Charles is king and inherits his mother's vault, he may be more generous in terms of sharing it his daughters-in-law, but that remains to be seen.
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  #24  
Old 11-28-2017, 07:55 PM
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Okay, I have been Team Strathmore Rose up till now. I'm feeling a very strong tug to the Diamond Lozenge Bandeau. It's so striking without being a big gun.
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  #25  
Old 11-28-2017, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyGlendower View Post
Okay, I have been Team Strathmore Rose up till now. I'm feeling a very strong tug to the Diamond Lozenge Bandeau. It's so striking without being a big gun.
Yep...it is very unique.


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  #26  
Old 11-28-2017, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by IloveCP View Post

I'd love to see Meghan in some of these jewels, but part of me feels that sapphires "belong" to Kate. She is most associated with them because of her engagement ring and the sapphire earrings she's already worn. So, part of me thinks that all the sapphires should go to Kate.

Instead, I'd like to see Meghan wearing other jewels - emeralds, pearls, diamonds. I don't know if she likes them, but I feel like she would look amazing in pearls - sophisticated and classy, and IMO they'd look gorgeous against her skin.

With regard to ownership of gifts, IMO it would depend on whether they were personal gifts (i.e. a wedding gift like Diana's sapphire set) or a gift bestowed during an official visit or tour. The latter would be gifts to the crown and therefore not belong to the recipient. But, the former - a wedding gift -that seems like it would belong to the recipient. I just don't see how the crown could take ownership of a personal gift. But, this is just my speculation, I could be completely wrong. (Although, one example supporting my case is Diana's engagement ring! That was a gift and remained her personal property.)


Regarding general jewels for Meghan, again...pearls! And I think she'd look great in emeralds as well. My understanding/observation of the BRF is that - unlike the Swedish RF, e.g. - the women do not share tiaras (except from mother to daughter for a wedding, e.g.), so I don't expect to see Meghan wearing any tiaras that the queen, Camilla, or Kate has worn before. So, this might leave Meghan's wedding tiara, the Strathmore Rose, the Teck Crescent (even though this is purportedly in Camilla's custody, she hasn't worn it so might be willing for it to be used by Meghan...), and a few others. I'm hoping that Harry attending his first state dinner last year is a sign that he (and Meghan) will be at them going forward.
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  #27  
Old 11-28-2017, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gudgeon View Post
I'd love to see Meghan in some of these jewels, but part of me feels that sapphires "belong" to Kate. She is most associated with them because of her engagement ring and the sapphire earrings she's already worn. So, part of me thinks that all the sapphires should go to Kate.

Instead, I'd like to see Meghan wearing other jewels - emeralds, pearls, diamonds. I don't know if she likes them, but I feel like she would look amazing in pearls - sophisticated and classy, and IMO they'd look gorgeous against her skin.

With regard to ownership of gifts, IMO it would depend on whether they were personal gifts (i.e. a wedding gift like Diana's sapphire set) or a gift bestowed during an official visit or tour. The latter would be gifts to the crown and therefore not belong to the recipient. But, the former - a wedding gift -that seems like it would belong to the recipient. I just don't see how the crown could take ownership of a personal gift. But, this is just my speculation, I could be completely wrong. (Although, one example supporting my case is Diana's engagement ring! That was a gift and remained her personal property.)
There is a difference in a ring gifted to you by your fiancee and priceless jewelry from the government of another country even if it was a "wedding gift"
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  #28  
Old 11-28-2017, 08:17 PM
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The only stone I've seen her in so far are diamonds and she had on opal earrings yesterday. We know she likes yellow gold. Time will tell if she likes colored gemstones or not.


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  #29  
Old 11-28-2017, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I tend to believe that, as long QEII is on the throne, it is unlikely that MM will have more than one tiara at her disposal on a regular basis. She won't have more than two or so tiara events per year anyway.

When Charles is king and inherits his mother's vault, he may be more generous in terms of sharing it his daughters-in-law, but that remains to be seen.
I have the same belief that the Queen only allots one tiara to female family members but I believe that the Queen allows switching, so in my scenario, over the years, Meghan will transition from starter tiara(s) to big gun tiara(s). I also agree that Charles may do things differently when he is monarch.
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  #30  
Old 11-28-2017, 08:24 PM
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I wonder how Meghan will eventually wear her hair. As it is now, her hair has been very much dictated by characters she has played and by certain biases in the acting profession regarding hair that will 'sell' an image. Harry comes into it of course (as does every boyfriend/husband). She will maintain whatever hair Harry wants. We all do that (until the 4th child ). However, what we see may be exactly the style and kind of hair Meghan prefers. Maybe. So no change.

Depending on her innate style that has yet to reveal itself will depend what she gravitates towards in the tiara department and that revelation will be interesting to see. I look forward to the journey of discovery!
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  #31  
Old 11-28-2017, 08:29 PM
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I am hoping (and expect) her hair to be up for the wedding!


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  #32  
Old 11-28-2017, 09:24 PM
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I found the gifting policy.

150 pounds. There is a staffer who arbitrates what is "personal" property. All the rest goes to the Crown. But do read/scan all the language - it's all about encouraging not-valuable gifts.

BTW - any private gifts are taxable. Which is one of the reasons members of the family are sanguine about official gifts not being personal. They get the use of baubles, while avoiding all tax.

https://www.royal.uk/sites/default/f...olicy_2003.pdf
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  #33  
Old 11-28-2017, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Claude View Post
I have the same belief that the Queen only allots one tiara to female family members but I believe that the Queen allows switching, so in my scenario, over the years, Meghan will transition from starter tiara(s) to big gun tiara(s). I also agree that Charles may do things differently when he is monarch.

I don't think that's correct because QEII has already loaned 3 different tiaras to Kate (Cartier Halo, Cambridge Lovers Knot, Lotus Flower) and Sophie has been seen in 4 tiaras but only 3 were loaners (wedding tiara, a "button" tiara, and two aquamarine tiaras). Camilla also has a bunch, so it seems like the queen has no problem loaning multiple tiaras to each woman.



Quote:
Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
There is a difference in a ring gifted to you by your fiancee and priceless jewelry from the government of another country even if it was a "wedding gift"

True. I was just trying to distinguish between personal gifts and those received when on official duty/"work" for queen and country.
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  #34  
Old 11-28-2017, 10:13 PM
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No one in the general public knows what all Diana got as gifts during her marriage.

The gift policy was not in effect when Diana was Princess of Wales.
As far as is known, all gifts to her from foreign royals and governments were her personal property and are in the possession of Princes William and Harry.

So amongst other items there are the Saudi Diamond and Sapphire set, which included a jeweled box, diamond necklace with huge sapphire drop, bracelet, earrings, a watch at that time, a ring,

Another suite of sapphire and diamond jewels from the Sultan of Oman. Including earrings, necklace, and bracelet.

Diamond and ruby and diamond and sapphire necklaces, that convert into bracelets that are suspected to be from another middle eastern royal.

And much much more, including personal jewels from Prince Charles like the gold and pearl heart necklace, and the art deco emerald and diamond bracelet, and other gifts from members of the royal family that may or may not be available to Catherine and Meghan, like the enormous Sapphire from the Queen Mother, that Diana set into a pearl choker or the Cambridge emerald choker from the Queen.

We've only seen a very few items so far, like the Lover's Knot Tiara, the Collingwood diamond and pearl earrings, the engagement ring, and possibly some small sapphire earrings.

I HIGHLY recommend people go to :

Diana's Jewels

And get an idea of what might be available to Catherine and Meghan from the late Princess.
There are many pearl chokers, gold jewelry, aquamarine earrings and ring, emerald and diamond bracelet, etc etc, etc,,
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  #35  
Old 11-28-2017, 10:55 PM
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Wouldn't the death duties on all that jewelry have been astronomical? If indeed it was all Diana's personal jewelry to leave to William and Harry?
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  #36  
Old 11-28-2017, 11:00 PM
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I thought there was a way around it?


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  #37  
Old 11-28-2017, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
I thought there was a way around it?


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The jewels that pass from one monarch to the next avoid death duties.
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  #38  
Old 11-28-2017, 11:22 PM
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It was all Diana's personal jewelry except possibly the aforementioned Lover's Knot Tiara, the Cambridge emerald choker, the Queen Mother's Sapphire, and one or two other items.
There seems to be conflicting reports over the decades as to whether the above mentioned items were "lifetime loans" to Diana or outright gifts to her. Anyhow...everything else really, was Diana's.

A cursory google search shows her estate was valued at 21 million pounds when she died, and about 4 million was paid in "death duties", after which William and Harry received 17 million pounds worth of her estate.
Most of this was held in trust for the boys until they reached the age of 30. By then the estate was worth an additional 10 million pounds or so.
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  #39  
Old 11-29-2017, 12:33 AM
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If I remember correctly, it was stipulated in the divorce that she did not keep the jewels gifted to her by governments or in her role as Princess of Wales and that included much of her wedding gifts. I don’t think her personal jewelry or the inheritance that William and Harry received is as large as people assume.
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  #40  
Old 11-29-2017, 01:02 AM
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Anna Catherine

As far as I can find online, you're not remembering correctly.
All I can find is at the time of her divorce she was to keep all of the jewelry she had acquired over the years of being Princess of Wales.

Quoting from the New York Times article outlining the divorce settlement : "she gets to keep all the jewelry she has amassed during her marriage"

Charles and Diana Agree on Divorce Terms - The New York Times

As I've previously mentioned, back in her day, all gifts given to her during official visits were kept for her personally. They didn't have to report them or turn them over to anyone back then.

So...to bring this back on topic, there should be a bunch of Diana's jewels available to Meghan after her marriage.

I think the sums mentioned by me in my previous post are accurate and the boys received roughly what was published at the time. And all publications from that time mention the same sums, and base most of the estate on the 17 million pounds Diana received in the divorce settlement. All of this is public record and you can view Diana's actual will online.
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