The Duke and Duchess of Sussex to Step Back as Senior Royals: January 2020

[Blog Real]

Meghan Markle is already compared to Wallis Simpson
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jan/09/meghan-harry-wallis-simpson-edward-history

 

[Blog Real]

You are mistaken. The only members of the RF who have round the clock security are The Queen, Prince Philip, Charles and Camilla, Cambridge’s and still the Sussexes.




It is. However they don’t intend to represent the commonwealth whilst spending half the year outside the UK. I believe they’ve chosen a commonwealth country for appearance sake, and for monetary reasons personally.

What about Princess Anne, Prince Andrew and the Counts of Wessex?

 

[Pranter]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1215745451368091649

Omid's new podcast, Chris Ship as guest

 

[ACO]

Meghan Markle is already compared to Wallis Simpson
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jan/09/meghan-harry-wallis-simpson-edward-history

She has been compared to her since the day it was revealed they were dating.

 

[Betsypaige]

I admit, this made me kind of emotional - because I love Charles and think he’s been a wonderful father. Ok, it’s the Mirror, but I can buy this - it makes sense. I’m so glad he’s been trying to help his son through such trying times, and thar Harry has opened up to him. It feels like Harry is fearful of becoming forgotten, insignificant, lesser, once his father is king. He’s insecure - what he needs is reassurance that he is and will always be loved, and that there’s no chance he will become irrelevant.

It is understood that during a series of heartfelt discussions over the past month Harry told his father he had been unhappy for some time and needed a new direction for his family.

The duke’s wife Meghan is said to have convinced him they need to “thrive” instead of merely “surviving” which spurred him to conclude they should quit as senior royals.

The insider said: “At the very heart of the matter is the Prince of Wales’ concern for his son, his daughter-in-law and his new grandson.

“He is absolutely clear in his mind that Harry is at a tipping point and has promised him he would do everything in his power to help him.



Charles told him he would stand by him no matter what, but urged him to come up with a sensible plan that could be worked through in order to satisfy everyone.”

Charles has ordered aides to come up with a solution in a bid to ensure his son remains in the Firm.

The Queen has been at the forefront in the battle to “move heaven and Earth” to keep Harry and Meghan, 38, in the inner circle.

A palace insider said: “When all around her appears to be crumbling, she is of course the ever constant presence that will steady the ship –whatever it takes.”
....

Senior palace sources say Charles and Harry’s relationship has been “incredibly strong, perhaps better than ever” but admitted there were tensions over the handling of the Sussexes’ bombshell statement.

But the suggestion Charles would cut his son off financially or emotionally was last night labelled as “absurd”.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/prince-charles-fears-harry-tipping-21256931

 

[Osipi]

Hmm, I don’t want the Queen to punish Harry and Meghan, but neither do I want her - or Charles - to give them everything they want. I believe the Queen will do what’s best, though I hope she understands that the public doesn’t want to pay for part time Royals with an attitude problem

The British taxpayer does not pay directly for anything involving the royal family at all except the security details which are handled and decided on and under the control and jurisdiction of the Metropolitan Police/Scotland Yard.

 

[moby]

She has been compared to her since the day it was revealed they were dating.

Eerie considering David is one of Harry's names...

 

[O-H Anglophile]

I always thought all the Queen's grandchildren had security guards.

No, only William & his family and Harry & his family.
Sophie doesn’t have security either unless she’s on an official engagement.

 

[Betsypaige]

The British taxpayer does not pay directly for anything involving the royal family at all except the security details which are handled and decided on and under the control and jurisdiction of the Metropolitan Police/Scotland Yard.

Ok, thanks ! Then, what would be the issue for the public with Charles financing H and M - other than that they loathe the idea (which I agree) of them getting paid to be part time Royals, doing only those things they choose to do?

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I agree that he will not likely become Governor General (nor would he and Meghan probably want this, as it's not a very exciting/mostly ceremonial job) but I guess I spoke to soon earlier...I think I said Canadians wouldn't want this either. However, apparently there's been a poll and 60% of Canadians polled DO want Harry as GG.

https://nationalpost.com/news/canad...arry-to-become-governor-general#comments-area

Interesting. It seems probable that the same 60% of Canadians would willingly pay for his security bill, which would resolve one issue for the British government.

 

[TRCRoyal]

If Harry and Meghan do decide to reside in Canada on a more permanent basis the only way Harry could stay legally would be if he got some kind of diplomatic status from the British embassy because he would never qualify to immigrate here.

That’s not true. He could easily get an investor’s visa.

 

[Osipi]

Ok, thanks ! Then, what would be the issue for the public with Charles financing H and M - other than that they loathe the idea (which I agree) of them getting paid to be part time Royals, doing only those things they choose to do?

They don't agree with how Charles spends his own money? I think basically it is because the everyday person on the street has no real understanding of how the financing of the royal family work and the differences between their personal incomes and their activities that are supported through the Sovereign Grant.

The thread here "Royal Wealth and Finance" is a good read.

http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f23/royal-wealth-and-finances-9826.html

 

[O-H Anglophile]

That’s not true. He could easily get an investor’s visa.

What business is Harry going to start & run to qualify?

 

[Betsypaige]

They don't agree with how Charles spends his own money? I think basically it is because the everyday person on the street has no real understanding of how the financing of the royal family work and the differences between their personal incomes and their activities that are supported through the Sovereign Grant.

The thread here "Royal Wealth and Finance" is a good read.

http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f23/royal-wealth-and-finances-9826.html

I’m sure that’s probably the case; if I were British, I doubt I would understand, lol.

Thanks for the link - I’ll definitely do a deep dive this weekend!

 

[Zaira]

I’m confused.

They’ve clearly found a house either on Vancouver Island or near, the dogs are there and it’s a place they felt safe enough to leave Archie while they were in the UK.

The Daily Mail reported they’d be back on the 20th, now they’ve reporting in tomorrows paper they’re gone for the next three months.

It’s utterly ridiculous, who is paying for their security whilst they’re in Canada where they now apparently live without representing the crown?

IMO I think its very clear that the papers do not know much of anything and that is a senior palace source is of dubious credibility. Last I saw the Mail tonight, Harry is staying the in UK until this is resolved. After just reading this morning in the same paper that he had already left. As the old Oprah saying goes, what is truth?

The stories literally change by the second. It seems every Jane, Mark and Henry is running to the papers with their take and "knowledge" only for every Kevin, Alan and Susan to pop up with THEIR take. And the papers, the tabs and the mainstream, all breathlessly run them.

My hope all around is that cool heads prevail.

 

[Leopoldine]

Zara and Peter haven't got security. Prince Andrew pays for any security Beatrice and Eugenie have got - they did have state-funded police protection at one time, but it was stopped.


All this speculation about who's advised them is just paper talk, but I wish they *had* spoken to the Obamas or Oprah - intelligent people who would surely have advised them not to act so rashly.

Oprah is in a bubble herself. I also don't think that she has a good understanding of what is expected of the BRF in the UK. Remember: Oprah was demanding that Fergie wear her tiara when she appeared on Oprah's show right after the Fake Sheikh incident. Fergie, to her credit, didn't do it.

 

[Muhler]

Okay, what will be the best solution?

IMO the BRF will not cast H&M adrift - at least not at this point and it's easier to control them inside the fold. But there is no way the BRF can give in to the proposals H&M have outlined.
H&M cannot become "financially independent" and at the same time remain active members of the BRF. The only thing they have to sell anyway is their name and status (brand) and it would be unacceptable for the BRF to commercialize their royal position.

So I think the best solution is to allow H&M to settle abroad, Canada seems likely - culturally and politically, and perhaps it's easier to - control - them in a commonwealth country?
Here they can focus on a few - well-chosen (read: approved by the palace) charities and causes and raise funds for that to their hearts desire - but not earning their own money.
H&M can forget all about "reforming" the BRF from within. - They will soon realize that they have been sidelined and that they are quietly getting fewer and fewer jobs at home in the UK.
They will be invited to attend the major events at home, where they can stand in the background looking suitable scenic.
Also, I think the palace will insist on appointing advisors (perhaps through the Canadian government, they will be difficult for H&M to reject) who will basically have to okay everything H&M do and say.
At least on paper H&M will get what they asked for: A much lower profile and able to focus on their own causes.

As for the economy. I think H&M will get the same amount they get now. It's cheaper and less worrying than if they had to finance themselves - and the money can be cut or withdrawn if need be...

Protection: Due to him being an Afghanistan veteran Harry remains a high-risk target, so I think they will keep their protection officers, but with more emphasis on Canada providing a permanent perimeter security. I.e. a permanent police presence where they live and happen to be when in Canada. - That will be at the expense of the Canadian taxpayers. But keep in mind that Canada has the means to "limit" their stay in Canada if H&M don't conform. I can easily imagine various ways of doing that.

Frogmore: They will keep the place and live there, those relative few times and short periods they happen to be in Britain. Still rent-free. I think it would be provoking a negative reaction from H&M if Frogmore was taken from them or they suddenly had to pay rent.
Later on they may be "encouraged" to settle with an apartment in one of the palaces. So in say five years they may move out of Frogmore.

Archie: Well, if they intend to settle in Canada and are happy there, he will grow up as a Canadian. And go to school there eventually.

- They key to all this to keep them out of sight and out of mind, of the British public, as much as possible. And as they will quietly get fewer and fewer official jobs (that's what they want, right?) and as time goes fade more and more away. Especially when Charles becomes king and W&K's children become teens. Focus will quietly shift away from H&M.
Eventually it will dawn on H&M that they have been exiled in anything but name. And that they have been put under administration.

That I think would be the most ideal solution, given the circumstances. And the fact that at least Harry is still family and unlikely to just being kicked out of the BRF. Meghan's status remains to be seen. That depends on whether the BRF blame her for all this or believe Harry is the main force.

- There are just a couple of unresolved questions:
A) Will H&M accept these conditions? They don't have much to bargain with though. Except causing trouble and making a spectacle of themselves. Would they do that?
B) What happens when H&M don't conform to these conditions? Because at some point they will test these limits.

 

[christinacg]

IMO I think its very clear that the papers do not know much of anything and that is a senior palace source is of dubious credibility. Last I saw the Mail tonight, Harry is staying the in UK until this is resolved. After just reading this morning in the same paper that he had already left. As the old Oprah saying goes, what is truth?



The stories literally change by the second. It seems every Jane, Mark and Henry is running to the papers with their take and "knowledge" only for every Kevin, Alan and Susan to pop up with THEIR take. And the papers, the tabs and the mainstream, all breathlessly run them.



My hope all around is that cool heads prevail.

That’s my problem with all the hoopla and negativity over this situation. Very little facts are known. What most people are discussing, including on this thread, are rumors started by tabloids and royal correspondence that have no basis yet people are quick to assume they’re facts. Even all the headlines saying “they quit the royal family” which is entirely untrue yet people are so quick to believe and spread that mistruth. I wish everyone would take a step back, calm down, and wait for more official information to come forth. Whatever happens, it’s not the end of the world, and is just a minor bump in the road for the BRF.

 

[Mbruno]

Interesting. It seems probable that the same 60% of Canadians would willingly pay for his security bill, which would resolve one issue for the British government.

How did you come to that conclusion given that those are two completely different questions ?


Anyway, I am surprised that, in this poll, 60 % of the Canadians polled and, more strikingly, 47 % of Quebec respondents, would like Harry as GG. Nonetheless, I am afraid it would be politically impossible these days to appoint a GG who is not a Canadian citizen and doesn't speak French.

 

[tommy100]

All the discussion so far has been about the "deal" or "solution" to the Sussex's proposals, I wonder what will happen if they dislike what ever is finally presented and decide to simply go it alone living off Trust Funds and savings for a short time before they get their own income from various commercial ventures. In reality there is no way to stop them is there?

 

[Pranter]

All the discussion so far has been about the "deal" or "solution" to the Sussex's proposals, I wonder what will happen if they dislike what ever is finally presented and decide to simply go it alone living off Trust Funds and savings for a short time before they get their own income from various commercial ventures. In reality there is no way to stop them is there?

Why would they? If they aren't working members of the family and not receiving funding then they would be free to work etc just like Eugenie/Beatrice.



LaRae

 

[christinacg]

All the discussion so far has been about the "deal" or "solution" to the Sussex's proposals, I wonder what will happen if they dislike what ever is finally presented and decide to simply go it alone living off Trust Funds and savings for a short time before they get their own income from various commercial ventures. In reality there is no way to stop them is there?

In reference to that first part, that’s simply not true. They’re have been numerous posts in this thread referencing tabloid articles that have nothing to do with the Sussex’s proposal that posters seem to think are facts. The first thing that comes to mind is that stupid rumor that “the final straw” was the photo of HM and her heirs and how that supposedly triggered H&M. Utter nonsense.

 

[Leopoldine]

It is odd, I agree. In one sentence they say, step back but still support......what does that mean???
They just want to make it a big thing like always �� if they really wanted to step back, it would mean no more duties, titles, merchandising....

I would appreciate if they really stepped back with all consequences, but doubt it.

When they are launching of a hollywood-style life and in their sense better thing would be a too big contrast to what monarchy is meant to be, I hope the BP will tell them off immediately and things calm down.

No one needs Meghan, british monarchy is good the way it is and the idea if a smaller group of members as working royals is the best way for the future as many other european monarchies have proofed before.

I think that the problem with "stepping back", given who they are and their white-hot fame, is the unsavory people who need respectability who will come out of the woodwork with offers of private jet trips, vacations on yachts, generous charity donations, heaps of praise and compliments, etc.

Charles himself has not been immune to plane rides and yacht holidays, but he might want to keep up his son's income to keep them from becoming dependent on sleazebags.

Harry and Meghan seem particularly vulnerable to the kind of fugazi operators who will do anything to associate with famous Royal do-gooders. They have to be careful.

 

[Missjersey]

Okay, what will be the best solution?

IMO the BRF will not cast H&M adrift - at least not at this point and it's easier to control them inside the fold. But there is no way the BRF can give in to the proposals H&M have outlined.
H&M cannot become "financially independent" and at the same time remain active members of the BRF. The only thing they have to sell anyway is their name and status (brand) and it would be unacceptable for the BRF to commercialize their royal position.

So I think the best solution is to allow H&M to settle abroad, Canada seems likely - culturally and politically, and perhaps it's easier to - control - them in a commonwealth country?
Here they can focus on a few - well-chosen (read: approved by the palace) charities and causes and raise funds for that to their hearts desire - but not earning their own money.
H&M can forget all about "reforming" the BRF from within. - They will soon realize that they have been sidelined and that they are quietly getting fewer and fewer jobs at home in the UK.
They will be invited to attend the major events at home, where they can stand in the background looking suitable scenic.
Also, I think the palace will insist on appointing advisors (perhaps through the Canadian government, they will be difficult for H&M to reject) who will basically have to okay everything H&M do and say.
At least on paper H&M will get what they asked for: A much lower profile and able to focus on their own causes.

As for the economy. I think H&M will get the same amount they get now. It's cheaper and less worrying than if they had to finance themselves - and the money can be cut or withdrawn if need be...

Protection: Due to him being an Afghanistan veteran Harry remains a high-risk target, so I think they will keep their protection officers, but with more emphasis on Canada providing a permanent perimeter security. I.e. a permanent police presence where they live and happen to be when in Canada. - That will be at the expense of the Canadian taxpayers. But keep in mind that Canada has the means to "limit" their stay in Canada if H&M don't conform. I can easily imagine various ways of doing that.

Frogmore: They will keep the place and live there, those relative few times and short periods they happen to be in Britain. Still rent-free. I think it would be provoking a negative reaction from H&M if Frogmore was taken from them or they suddenly had to pay rent.
Later on they may be "encouraged" to settle with an apartment in one of the palaces. So in say five years they may move out of Frogmore.

Archie: Well, if they intend to settle in Canada and are happy there, he will grow up as a Canadian. And go to school there eventually.

- They key to all this to keep them out of sight and out of mind, of the British public, as much as possible. And as they will quietly get fewer and fewer official jobs (that's what they want, right?) and as time goes fade more and more away. Especially when Charles becomes king and W&K's children become teens. Focus will quietly shift away from H&M.
Eventually it will dawn on H&M that they have been exiled in anything but name. And that they have been put under administration.

That I think would be the most ideal solution, given the circumstances. And the fact that at least Harry is still family and unlikely to just being kicked out of the BRF. Meghan's status remains to be seen. That depends on whether the BRF blame her for all this or believe Harry is the main force.

- There are just a couple of unresolved questions:
A) Will H&M accept these conditions? They don't have much to bargain with though. Except causing trouble and making a spectacle of themselves. Would they do that?
B) What happens when H&M don't conform to these conditions? Because at some point they will test these limits.

Who really knows Muhler but your last sentence.....I think so true.

 

[Mbruno]

I think the distance happened when Prince William married Kate, rightly so she (and the Middletons) became his family. Harry tagged along not rocking the boat and was quite lonely.

Harry and Catherine seemed to get along quite well before Harry met Meghan. The rumor is that the rift between the brothers actually came from William advising against Harry rushing to marry Meghan. I suspect , however, that Harry feeling sidelined as William took a more prominent role in the Firm (post his marriage to Catherine) was a factor too. If the latter was a factor though, Harry comes across as insecure and even juvenile.

 

[caethi]

I think Mr Trudeau has more important things on the table at the moment.

Yes. 63 Canadians died two days ago when their commercial flight was accidentally shot down by an Iranian missile after take-off from Tehran.



I imagine the PM has no strong opinion about Harry and Megan living in Canada, but he doesn't want the political blowback if Canadian taxpayers have to foot a security bill. We Canadians are happy to have visitors appreciate our beautiful country, but we expect them to pay their way. Canadians may welcome Harry and Megan for vacations and respite, but as almost permanent residents that cost us money? I'm not so sure.

I hope he and Meghan find a place to live and roles where they feel safe and comfortable, but if he is isolated from his family, that will not help him in the long run. Meghan's network of friends will need to provide a substitute family to the couple, and that doesn't seem ideal.

 

[COUNTESS]

Yes, as you point out Oprah Winfrey has denied the rumor:

https://people.com/royals/oprah-winfrey-denies-she-advised-meghan-markle-and-prince-harry/



You hit the nail right on the head. The average American views royals as just another kind of celebrity - like a movie star or rock musician or (gasp) the Kardashians.

I remember - years ago - a coworker telling me how much she preferred Sarah over Diana because Sarah was "fun" and "acted just like one of us" while Diana was much more dignified in public.

The fact that members of the BRF aren't supposed to act like one of us completely escaped her.

Because they are just like us. Royal is a made up term of the life of ordinary people into extraordinary status. That was easy a long time ago. But, today, we know hat they are nothing different or better than we. And, what keeps them in the forefront is that they are celebrities. There is nothing holy or special. And the work that the Sussexes are walking out on is cutting ribbons here and making appearances there. They are ornamental positions. Perhaps, they can do some meaningful work on their own. That I don't know.
They don't need money. They have plenty.

 

[gerry]

Yes. 63 Canadians died two days ago when their commercial flight was accidentally shot down by an Iranian missile after take-off from Tehran.



I imagine the PM has no strong opinion about Harry and Megan living in Canada, but he doesn't want the political blowback if Canadian taxpayers have to foot a security bill. We Canadians are happy to have visitors appreciate our beautiful country, but we expect them to pay their way. Canadians may welcome Harry and Megan for vacations and respite, but as almost permanent residents that cost us money? I'm not so sure.

I hope he and Meghan find a place to live and roles where they feel safe and comfortable, but if he is isolated from his family, that will not help him in the long run. Meghan's network of friends will need to provide a substitute family to the couple, and that doesn't seem ideal.

[...] This Canadian would also welcome the family to settle here at their own expense, like any other new Canadian. However, as Muhler wrote upthread, I also cannot imagine the Sussexes outside the fold of their respective families, even if one of them is the famously dysfunctional Royal family. I am intrigued to see what solution Prince Harry's wise old grandmother comes up with
PS no wonder the Sussexes want to abandon Britain: I have been horrified by the vituperative slander that is being thrown at them by the tabloid press and readers. One needs only to read some of the comments on the Sussex instagram site to become physically ill.

 

[Osipi]

Its occurred to me that many are seeing all of this as Harry and Meghan walking away from royal duties and the royal family. That's exaggeration. Its no where near what is actually happening. No where is it said that they will not ever do any royal duties or engagements. They're not being exiled out of the family at all or giving the Queen the British equivalent of the Bronx cheer.

They want to live part time in Canada. How much different is that from the Queen living for a few months at Balmoral or at Sandringham for her private time? Only difference I see is that the Queen's private times away are on her estates in the UK whereas Harry and Meghan's would be in a Commonwealth country. The muss and fuss about who's going to finance this or that will be sorted out and come to an agreement. I don't see it costing the British taxpayer a dime anywhere. All of this is where it takes time to work things out and be feasible from all angles and the pertinent people are the ones that are consulting and trying to come up with solutions and they're definitely not running to the media and TV stations and telling us what's what.

I think the main "break" here seems to be that they wish to differentiate between their "royal duties and engagements" and their philanthropic work through their foundation. This is shown by them stating that their foundation would not receive funding from the Sovereign Grant. It gives them more freedom on how to run their foundation. They're not going to, all of a sudden, drop the patronages that the Queen has asked them to take on at all. They're not going to become avid "red carpet strutters" as they've never been that way even during their courtship, engagement period and after their wedding.

I honestly don't see them doing this for personal fame and fortune and bright lights but rather changing and adapting just how they do things in a different manner that perhaps would be more successful for everything they choose to back as an incentive or an organization or a cause.

Until we actually know without a doubt what is fact away from the media stories and the reporter's points of view and everyone else's opinion, I'm going to give these two the benefit of the doubt that what they're trying to accomplish is for the good and not because of mental health issues, or ego stroking or any of the bazillion thoughts floating around these days around these two people.

Yeps... I do hope the clear heads prevail.

 

[Pranter]

Its occurred to me that many are seeing all of this as Harry and Meghan walking away from royal duties and the royal family. That's exaggeration. Its no where near what is actually happening. No where is it said that they will not ever do any royal duties or engagements. They're not being exiled out of the family at all or giving the Queen the British equivalent of the Bronx cheer.

They want to live part time in Canada. How much different is that from the Queen living for a few months at Balmoral or at Sandringham for her private time? Only difference I see is that the Queen's private times away are on her estates in the UK whereas Harry and Meghan's would be in a Commonwealth country. The muss and fuss about who's going to finance this or that will be sorted out and come to an agreement. I don't see it costing the British taxpayer a dime anywhere. All of this is where it takes time to work things out and be feasible from all angles and the pertinent people are the ones that are consulting and trying to come up with solutions and they're definitely not running to the media and TV stations and telling us what's what.

I think the main "break" here seems to be that they wish to differentiate between their "royal duties and engagements" and their philanthropic work through their foundation. This is shown by them stating that their foundation would not receive funding from the Sovereign Grant. It gives them more freedom on how to run their foundation. They're not going to, all of a sudden, drop the patronages that the Queen has asked them to take on at all. They're not going to become avid "red carpet strutters" as they've never been that way even during their courtship, engagement period and after their wedding.

I honestly don't see them doing this for personal fame and fortune and bright lights but rather changing and adapting just how they do things in a different manner that perhaps would be more successful for everything they choose to back as an incentive or an organization or a cause.

Until we actually know without a doubt what is fact away from the media stories and the reporter's points of view and everyone else's opinion, I'm going to give these two the benefit of the doubt that what they're trying to accomplish is for the good and not because of mental health issues, or ego stroking or any of the bazillion thoughts floating around these days around these two people.

Yeps... I do hope the clear heads prevail.

Yes well said!


LaRae