The Duke and Duchess of Sussex to Step Back as Senior Royals: January 2020

[Pranter]

I'm referring to the pictures we saw of him in the car, the pictures and video we saw of him prior to the beginning of his engagement yesterday, and even the fact that those who were at the engagement spoke of how quickly he rushed through it as though he really just wanted to be finished with it. Yes, he put on his game face and was pleasant throughout the engagement but the rest of the pictures we've seen of him this week combined with the statements from those who, unlike myself, were at that engagement...he seems like a very stressed and worried man. She, on the other hand, has been pictured looking nothing less than blissfully happy. Quite the contrast.

He was in the car...they are allowed to be normal like the rest of us, he looked like anyone else would.

They always put their game faces on at these events. However he did seem his usual self in all the video clips and pics I saw. There was nothing really different from any other time he's been out doing something solo.

If those who are making the comments about him are royal reporters and tabloids then really not surprised they are painting their own narrative. One of them tried to act like (on Twitter) he was very down, they conveniently posted only pictures of him looking serious ....they were called out about it but amazingly never responded.



LaRae

 

[ACO]

Honestly, I don't understand how anyone could watch all of this and expect him to not be at least a little bit scared. Change is scary and it doesn't matter who you are or whether you're a little old commoner like us or a royal prince. Change is scary and it's hard. Harry is changing everything he's ever known and is changing and upending his entire life. I think there's probably a wide range of emotions and feelings right now but I'd be absolutely floored if "scared" isn't one of them. You can be scared even when making very positive changes. But when you're stepping away from everyone and everything you've ever known, it's playing out in international headlines, and everyone and their dog has and expresses an opinion, how could he not be at least a little bit scared?

They are human. Of course they are feeling a wild range of emotions. I am not saying they not nervous. There are degrees of it. But if this was planned as much as some claim then maybe they are more content than you think. They have clearly accepted whatever will come. I mean they had to know posting what they did would create some mania. They did it anyways.

Honestly Harry seems relieved to me. In fact I agreed with one royal correspondent on GMB today who said he looked like a giant weight was lifted off his shoulders. Change is a lot. Having those butterflies as it approaches and comes into fruition for sure hits you. But he doesn't come across as fearful in the least to me. More like a man tying up loose ends before he heads out.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

The comment above is one of the smartest I've read in this topic.
I agree with everything I read. I also think that's what happened. I think Harry is sad and worried. His main concern right now is saving his marriage, so he made the decision to move to Canada. Meghan definitely couldn't handle the pressure of being a member of the royal family ...

I don't think Meghan couldn't handle it--I think she chose not to be bothered. She had no vested interest in the UK or the BRF.

 

[Betsypaige]

I do understand what you're saying but I honestly have to question just how confident she really is. Yes, she wants people to believe that she's completely self confident and doesn't waste her energy worrying about what others think of her. But really, haven't the last three years, particularly the last year, shown us otherwise? Using her friends to speak out on her behalf, fleeing to Canada to let Harry handle the fallout on his own, the crocodile tears in that interview, doesn't it all show that just maybe she's not quite the entirely self-confident and self-assured strong woman she wants everyone to believe she is? Some people love to spout those things but behind it all are actually quite self-conscious and unsure and are only masking it well until things get too real, too close, or too hard. I tend to believe this is the category Meghan falls in. And if that's true, then I don't think she's capable of being the solid shoulder than self-conscious and insecure Harry needs to get him through all this.

I think she’s confident in her milieu - and probably vulnerable in something so completely different as the Royal life. I think her fleeing, her using friends to be her mouthpiece, speaks more to weaknesses in her character than to her lack of confidence. It’s cowardly to run out on your new family, refusing to face them with your fears. It’s cowardly to use your son as a reason to hurriedly escape the UK.

I don’t believe this is all on her, though. His name is on his website, too. Harry has handled this all atrociously. I’m a bit tired of the notion that he can only protect his new family if they escape the BRF, as if that’s the sole cause of his unhappiness. William and Kate have done wonderfully with their three little ones. It’s fine if he doesn’t want that life, but that doesn’t mean it’s toxic...

I agree so much with you! Also she read the book "the rule" Once you read it you know how she really got him!
Of course it is a lot of factors involve, but I am sure she was drawn to the fact he was a prince and the magic of Royalty like a Disney movie

Is that the book that tells women how to land a man (by playing by certain rules)? !!

 

[_Heather_]

It’s fine if he doesn’t want that life, but that doesn’t mean it’s toxic...

I think that's a very good point. Now, in all fairness, none of us know what life is truly like inside the BRF but, it's a very good point that just because a certain lifestyle isn't for you doesn't make it toxic. And I think that might really be what's at the heart of some of the outrage about all this. It has been handled atrociously but the image being put out there of the BRF being toxic is really offensive and outrageous to many people and even though we really can't say with certainty what it's like, just because it is different than any other lifestyle and understandably might not be ideal for everyone based on personality, background, etc., it's not inherently toxic just because someone or a couple of someones are unhappy in it.

 

[Alison H]

It now appears that Rose Van Cutsem, wife of Hugh Van Cutsem who has been a longtime close friend of both Harry and William posted and then quickly removed an IG post mocking Harry and Meghan's announcement. .

That's a shame. Harry and William have been friends with the van Cutsems for years. I don't think she should have been having a go at Harry in public, but, yes, it doesn't say much for how his relationships with his old mates are at the moment.

 

[Denville]

I ., it's not inherently toxic just because someone or a couple of someones are unhappy in it.

It seems like Harry is finding it "toxic" and has been for some time, and I think Meghan's alos finding it a lot more unpleasant than she expected....
Lots of royals have been less than happy with it, but they've usually stayed because of duty and because they can't really imagine any other life...

 

[wyevale]

I don't think she should have been having a go at Harry in public

Perhaps that was her sole method of getting 'at him' ? By all accounts his old 'friends' have been dropped like a stone...

The temptation of revenge may have proved irresistible ?

 

[_Heather_]

It seems like Harry is finding it "toxic" and has been for some time, and I think Meghan's alos finding it a lot more unpleasant than she expected....
Lots of royals have been less than happy with it, but they've usually stayed because of duty and because they can't really imagine any other life...

Yes, maybe Harry and Meghan are finding it not to their liking. But to declare the entire institution to be "a toxic environment" isn't fair. Just because something isn't to one's liking does not make it inherently toxic. A lot of people don't like office-type jobs, that doesn't mean they're toxic. A lot of people don't like high pressure jobs, that doesn't mean they're toxic. A lot of these stories and purported "leaks" from the Harry/Meghan camp claiming that the BRF is "a toxic environment" that they just couldn't bear to raise their son in simply aren't fair. We don't know that the whole environment is toxic, only that they found it not to their liking.

 

[Eskimo]

I think Meghan Markle recognised in Harry a Man 'discontented with his lot' in life, looking enviously at the family life his brother enjoyed with his wife and young family, and saw [clearly] that this man, with a global reach she has LONG desired, [but not independently achieved] could provide her with that fame, and 'Global platform'..

He was 'ripe for the picking'.

Now she has the Title, the platform, the child, what need has she of him any more ?

She needs him for the title. Until she becomes a British citizen, Duchess of Sussex is a courtesy title and in case of a divorce the best she could do is call herself Ms. Meghan Mountbatten-Windsor. If she is a British citizen (she loses all accrued time if she spends 90 days outside the country in any given year), she would be entitled to call herself Meghan, Duchess of Sussex.

Also, IMO, the platform heavily depends on her being a member of the BRF. No one is going to want to finance Ms. Meghan Markle as a globe trotting philanthropist but a lot of people would be willing to do so for HRH The Duchess of Sussex or even Meghan, Duchess of Sussex.

 

[ashelen]

Is that the book that tells women how to land a man (by playing by certain rules)? !!

Yes it is! I am sure she played all the rules

She needs him for the title. Until she becomes a British citizen, Duchess of Sussex is a courtesy title and in case of a divorce the best she could do is call herself Ms. Meghan Mountbatten-Windsor. If she is a British citizen (she loses all accrued time if she spends 90 days outside the country in any given year), she would be entitled to call herself Meghan, Duchess of Sussex.

Also, IMO, the platform heavily depends on her being a member of the BRF. No one is going to want to finance Ms. Meghan Markle as a globe trotting philanthropist but a lot of people would be willing to do so for HRH The Duchess of Sussex or even Meghan, Duchess of Sussex.

Don't you need to stay in the country 5 years to get citizenship? or is she so previlage that she can get it just because she married Harry?

 

[Osipi]

She needs him for the title. Until she becomes a British citizen, Duchess of Sussex is a courtesy title and in case of a divorce the best she could do is call herself Ms. Meghan Mountbatten-Windsor. If she is a British citizen (she loses all accrued time if she spends 90 days outside the country in any given year), she would be entitled to call herself Meghan, Duchess of Sussex.

Meghan's title has absolutely nothing to do with citizenship in the UK. She takes the feminine form of her husband's titles upon marriage. Should Harry and Meghan divorce, she would be Meghan, Duchess of Sussex in the same styling as both Diana and Sarah took after divorce. No HRH, but able to use their ex-husband's peerage styling until remarriage. Using the woman's first name followed by the feminine form of the peerage title denotes that she, at one time was married to the peer holder. Many women can and do retain their married surname after divorce.

So, if she were to be divorced from Harry, she'd be Meghan, Duchess of Sussex and legally able to use that styling until she remarried. Sarah, Duchess of York is still using that styling and she's been divorced since 1996.

On another note. Could someone please direct me to credible sources that state absolutely that both Harry and Meghan are seeking to "get away" from the toxicity of the BRF? Everything I've read so far points to an aim to curtail their full time involvement with the "Firm" to being part time and still doing the royal duties and engagements representing Crown and Country but on a more limited scale. The more I read here, it becomes apparent that people are seeing it all as cutting the BRF off completely, moving to Canada never to return again and totally divorcing themselves as anything "royal". Isn't that a bit over stating what is actually going on? Just curious.

 

[Mbruno]

She needs him for the title. Until she becomes a British citizen, Duchess of Sussex is a courtesy title and in case of a divorce the best she could do is call herself Ms. Meghan Mountbatten-Windsor. If she is a British citizen (she loses all accrued time if she spends 90 days outside the country in any given year), she would be entitled to call herself Meghan, Duchess of Sussex.

Also, IMO, the platform heavily depends on her being a member of the BRF. No one is going to want to finance Ms. Meghan Markle as a globe trotting philanthropist but a lot of people would be willing to do so for HRH The Duchess of Sussex or even Meghan, Duchess of Sussex.

Why does she need to be a British citizen to be called Meghan, Duchess of Sussex, if divorced ?

 

[Betsypaige]

Perhaps that was her sole method of getting 'at him' ? By all accounts his old 'friends' have been dropped like a stone...

The temptation of revenge may have proved irresistible ?

Maybe Harry dropped them because they had the nerve to express concern about Meghan...same reason for the rift with William

 

[ACO]

I think that's a very good point. Now, in all fairness, none of us know what life is truly like inside the BRF but, it's a very good point that just because a certain lifestyle isn't for you doesn't make it toxic. And I think that might really be what's at the heart of some of the outrage about all this. It has been handled atrociously but the image being put out there of the BRF being toxic is really offensive and outrageous to many people and even though we really can't say with certainty what it's like, just because it is different than any other lifestyle and understandably might not be ideal for everyone based on personality, background, etc., it's not inherently toxic just because someone or a couple of someones are unhappy in it.

Or it could be. People sometimes get defensive when things are brought to light. All experiences are different. Who are we to say what is or isn’t? And frankly the atmosphere where certain family members are told others are more important and prioritized over all others could very well be seen as not the best.

It is great that the Cambridges are great (or are displaying that anyways) but they are treated differently than the rest for obvious reasons. It just goes back to we don’t know the true dynamics at play or how anything really went down. Only the family truly knows the real truth. And that’s how they want it to stay.

 

[akina21]

However, once things are worked out and set for moving forward, I would predict that both Harry and Meghan would be back and forth between the UK and Canada and when in the UK, residing at Frogmore Cottage. I just don't get the vibe that Meghan will never, ever return to the UK at all. She's staying put with her son in one place until things are resolved.

I would more sure about this if she was in the UK right now . The way it looks to me , she came back for 5 minutes , threw a metaphorical bomb and fled , leaving Harry behind to pick up the pieces .

 

[_Heather_]

Maybe Harry dropped them because they had the nerve to express concern about Meghan...same reason for the rift with William

If that's true, and I do believe it's highly likely that it is, I think one day he'll come to regret it. Just as I believe he'll regret much of what's taken place over the last few years, I believe that cutting out those friends who've been loyal, discreet, and supportive over the years will be one of those regrets. Sometimes the people who love us most show that love by telling us when we're wrong, voicing their concerns when they see us walking into something potentially harmful to us, and telling us hard truths that we might not like to hear.

 

[Lumutqueen]

Until she becomes a British citizen, Duchess of Sussex is a courtesy title

Not true at all. A courtesy title is a secondary title, nothing about the Dukedom of Sussex is courtesy.

Why does she need to be a British citizen to be called Meghan, Duchess of Sussex, if divorced ?

She doesn’t.

 

[Osipi]

Maybe Harry dropped them because they had the nerve to express concern about Meghan...same reason for the rift with William

Or just maybe the old expression "wedding bells are breaking up this old gang of mine" happened. I speak from experience that it happens. It happened with me when I settled down and started a family. Lifestyle changes and priorities change drastically. It can go from partying at clubs and weekends away and going to concerts and sports events to staying home, playing cards and having said card game broken up sporadically due to a kid needing a diaper change or feeding.

From all I've seen with Harry and Meghan's courtship, neither one of them were jet setting social people but rather stay at home cooking chicken dinners and taking long walks kind of people. William's life also changed when he married and became a father. Why should it be different for Harry?

This also reminds me that at one time, it was stated by the Cambridges that they work things out between them that there is always one of the home with the kids. I'm tending to believe this is true with Meghan and Archie. Both Harry and Meghan believe that Archie is their first priority in everything right now. They don't need to be in each other's back pockets all the time to present a unified front. ?

 

[_Heather_]

Or just maybe the old expression "wedding bells are breaking up this old gang of mine" happened. I speak from experience that it happens. It happened with me when I settled down and started a family. Lifestyle changes and priorities change drastically. It can go from partying at clubs and weekends away and going to concerts and sports events to staying home, playing cards and having said card game broken up sporadically due to a kid needing a diaper change or feeding.

From all I've seen with Harry and Meghan's courtship, neither one of them were jet setting social people but rather stay at home cooking chicken dinners and taking long walks kind of people. William's life also changed when he married and became a father. Why should it be different for Harry?

It's very true that things do change when marriage and family are brought into the equation. But it's also quite true that you don't have to drop all of your long-term friends just because you now happen to be married and be a parent. And, given that loyalty and long term friendship seems to be a very, very valued thing for people in their position it would make sense to make changes but not drop them entirely. And I think that's what people are saying with the comparison to William. Sure, there's now kids and inlaws and spouses and grown up responsibilities but William very much appears to have kept all of his long term and loyal friendships in place and these friends, along with their spouses and children, are still very much a central and loved part of his inner circle. If Harry has truly dropped his inner circle it's a very, very bad idea because everyone and especially people in his position, need a circle they can trust and if you can add spouses and children to that circle then even better.

 

[wyevale]

The way it looks to me , she came back for 5 minutes , threw a metaphorical bomb and fled , leaving Harry behind to pick up the pieces .

This is how her behaviour is seen in the UK, and why I think she will not be accepted here again - should she chose to 'try again' - all trust in her is gone, and all goodwill with it...

 

[Countessmeout]

Perhaps that was her sole method of getting 'at him' ? By all accounts his old 'friends' have been dropped like a stone...

The temptation of revenge may have proved irresistible ?

Or the DM was stirring the pot like usual.

Roses response to the DM.

https://www.instagram.com/roseastor_/?hl=en

 

[Eskimo]

Not true at all. A courtesy title is a secondary title, nothing about the Dukedom of Sussex is courtesy.




She doesn’t.

You may be right. It is oft repeated in the media but when I went to search for an official source, I cannot seem to find one. Will keep looking

 

[ACO]

Who says Harry has dropped all his friends? I remember very clearly the papers trying to claim Harry’s good friend Adam Bidwell was “dropped” because he didn’t get along with Meghan. Then their tune changed when he turned up at polo alongside Meghan and Archie. Just saying...

These papers have their own agenda.

 

[Betsypaige]

If that's true, and I do believe it's highly likely that it is, I think one day he'll come to regret it. Just as I believe he'll regret much of what's taken place over the last few years, I believe that cutting out those friends who've been loyal, discreet, and supportive over the years will be one of those regrets. Sometimes the people who love us most show that love by telling us when we're wrong, voicing their concerns when they see us walking into something potentially harmful to us, and telling us hard truths that we might not like to hear.

Meghan’s ex-friend and business partner wrote recently about how she expressed concern to Meghan about marrying unto the BRF and the completely different lifestyle that requires...and Meghan apparently cut her off, said something to the effect that “I’m happy now” and that was it.....Meghan cut this woman out of her life. Sound familiar ?

Many of the media, who seem to personally like Harry, describe him as mercurial - so how he feels and acts may change from day to day. If he cuts himself off from his family, I’ve no doubt he’ll regret it. Of course there are phones and other ways to communicate with loved ones, but to paraphrase a famous line, “the BRF are not like you and me”. Is Harry going to just pick up the phone and call his father when he’s not used to doing that (I’m basing this on what I’ve read about how Royals communicate with each other )? Will he do that for the Queen? Philip? William ? The same goes vice versa..

What a shame that Harry has cut himself off from his friends ...he’s really isolated himself from everyone who loves him

 

[Countessmeout]

Duke of Sussex is not a courtesy title. It's a peerage. A courtesy title would be what his children use. If Archie was called Earl of Dunbarton, that would be a courtesy title. When referring to Harry, it's a peerage, for his son to use it, courtesy. He doesn't hold the peerage, he just has courtesy to use the title.

Meghan never has to be a Uk citizen. She uses her husband's title instead of a last name. Instead of being Mrs Harry Windsor, she is Princess Harry, Duchess of Sussex. Royals who have a peerage do not use a last name. And if they ever divorced, just like any ex wife, she could continue to use it. Simply go from HRH the duchess, to Meghan, duchess of Sussex. Nothing at all to do with citizenship.

 

[Lumutqueen]

You may be right. It is oft repeated in the media but when I went to search for an official source, I cannot seem to find one. Will keep looking

Sorry, but what are you on about? What is often repeated in the media?

The Queen conferred upon her grandson the Dukedom of Sussex, with two subsidiary titles. Earl of Dumbarton would be Henry's primary courtesy title that his son could use. Upon marriage, Meghan became The Duchess of Sussex. Should they divorce, she would be Meghan, Duchess of Sussex until Henry remarried. The title is by no means linked to Meghan being a british citizen, else she shouldn't be holding it now?

This link announces the official creation of Letters Patent in regards to the title.
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/3071743

No mention of citizenship.

 

[Betsypaige]

It's very true that things do change when marriage and family are brought into the equation. But it's also quite true that you don't have to drop all of your long-term friends just because you now happen to be married and be a parent. And, given that loyalty and long term friendship seems to be a very, very valued thing for people in their position it would make sense to make changes but not drop them entirely. And I think that's what people are saying with the comparison to William. Sure, there's now kids and inlaws and spouses and grown up responsibilities but William very much appears to have kept all of his long term and loyal friendships in place and these friends, along with their spouses and children, are still very much a central and loved part of his inner circle. If Harry has truly dropped his inner circle it's a very, very bad idea because everyone and especially people in his position, need a circle they can trust and if you can add spouses and children to that circle then even better.

I was just about to say this part in bold. It’s hard to trust people when you’re rich and famous - even more so when you’re part of the BRF. It’s hard to know who truly cares about you and who’s just out for themselves, and when you find the former, you tend to cling to them. Those are the people who can speak the truth to you, who have your best interests are heart.

While it’s true about marriage and family often changing relationships, I suspect this isn’t true in the case of friendships that members of the BRF have outside of royalty. Friends outside that life who have stuck by Harry, William or whomever through everything would not, I believe, tend to disappear just because their friend is no longer single and up for partying

 

[O-H Anglophile]

She needs him for the title. Until she becomes a British citizen, Duchess of Sussex is a courtesy title and in case of a divorce the best she could do is call herself Ms. Meghan Mountbatten-Windsor. If she is a British citizen (she loses all accrued time if she spends 90 days outside the country in any given year), she would be entitled to call herself Meghan, Duchess of Sussex.

Also, IMO, the platform heavily depends on her being a member of the BRF. No one is going to want to finance Ms. Meghan Markle as a globe trotting philanthropist but a lot of people would be willing to do so for HRH The Duchess of Sussex or even Meghan, Duchess of Sussex.

Why does she need to be a British citizen to be called Meghan, Duchess of Sussex, if divorced ?

She doesn’t. She can call herself that if she wants.
It won’t officially be on her U.S. passport or driver’s license, just as Duchess of Sussex isn’t now.

 

[Lumutqueen]

She doesn’t. She can call herself that if she wants.
It won’t officially be on her U.S. passport or driver’s license, just as Duchess of Sussex isn’t now.

Not related at all, just out of curiosity. Isn't it on her passport or driving license? She's not Meghan Markle, Archie's birth certificate shows she took Henry's name, so what would she be?

No digs intended, I am genuinely curious.