The Duke and Duchess of Sussex to Step Back as Senior Royals: January 2020

[Muhler]

The full (but short) statement can easily be found on the website of the BRF. It came out rather quickly given that it seems they didn't or hardly receive a heads up.

And yes, all points in the direction of all being very premature and no agreements reached on how to proceed; the only exception is the Sussex website that explains in some detail how the two of them envision their (rather unrealistic imho) future roles.

Key phrases are: discussions at an early stage/understand desire different approach/complicated issues/take time.

Thanks.

And I agree.

The full Palace statement for reference:
"Published 8 January 2020

Discussions with The Duke and Duchess of Sussex are at an early stage. We understand their desire to take a different approach, but these are complicated issues that will take time to work through"

So either:
A) H&M panicked and issued their statement way too premature and without consulting the palace first. - That is more than ill-advised IMO! Any competent advisor should IMO have counseled against such a move.
B) Or and that's pretty ominous, H&M lost patience and tried to force events in their desired direction. That would IMO be a very unwise move because in that way they have angered not only the BRF, but the British population in general as well? (Britons here can answer that question better than me.)

 

[poppy7]

Clearly something happened. I am not saying I disagree with you but for them to do something this drastic says something was not right. The aids were just saying they were in many meetings yesterday. Was it about this? Many questions. This didn't just happen overnight and despite the spin... I doubt anyone in the family are that shocked they wanted to walk away.

See what the bbc said. They knew for about a week but no decisions actually had been made.

 

[Nico]

And the Government with all that ?
I mean, can you just make up unilaterally a website claiming you'll be a semi-royal or whatever, minding your own business in the US but pop up occasionally to represent the UK overseas ?
I guess the Government has a say, or worse, is maybe fed up with yet another royal antics in the let's say current challenging times.

 

[wyevale]

Cheers mates, we don't have to pay for you! Brilliant!

If they honestly think the British Taxpayer is in any hurry to cough up to fund a Couple widely seen as recklessly extravagant, already 'rich as Croesus', and horribly 'woke', they are even more out of touch than I thought..

That it now appears they have done this thing without consulting ANY of those most closely affected by it, puts 'the Tin lid' on any popularity they once had..

As the Times Columnist, Iain Martin puts it : Takes quite a special sense of narcissistic self-indulgence to treat the 93 year-old Queen, with a husband in failing health, the way Harry and Meghan have today.

 

[Missjersey]

This is such a mess of...epic proportions. It's a manipulations of so many different people and different scenarios.

They included the bit about being "financially independent" in hopes it would curry support from British Taxpayer. (Cheers mates, we don't have to pay for you! Brilliant!)

They made their announcement, without seemingly having an actual plan in place with the Royal Family (who seem honestly blindsided, and now trying to save face)... and in doing so, meant they get to keep their titles and HRH for the time being. Because now, if the palace comes out and tells them, "You want to be independent, be independent, but do it without being a Duke of Sussex or an HRH." They look retalitory.

This whole thing looks like a couple of petulant, over indulged teenagers who want to have their cake and eat it too.

Reminds me of a Panorama interview........

 

[Mbruno]

Silly question, but how would Harry and Meghan live and work in Canada for an extended period of time ? What would their immigration status be ? I am assuming neither one is a Canadian citizen.

 

[duchesschicana]

..

They seem to think that they will continue carrying out oversees trips representing the Government. Have they not noticed that those trips are only taken by senior members of the family? When for example did Beatrice and Eugenie go on a royal tour in the last few years as 'other royals with financial independence'?

Beatrice has done tours similar to royal tours, all done privately rather than behalf of HM. She was in Laos from October 18-25, 2018. Her main purpose there was to promote UK in LAOS and she was there as a witness to sign letters of intention to establish the first "New Generation School" in Laos. UK in Laos promoted the tour, she met representatives, mayors etc. There is a bunch of lovely photos from that trip..

Also on, October 2016, Princess Beatrice went on a South Asia tour that lasted nine days. She was visiting Nepal, India, and Bhutan on Behalf of the Franks Family Foundation (FFF), Jamgon Kongtrul Eyes Centere’s- A free micro-surgical cataract program, is in technical collaboration with Nepal’s Tilganga Eye Centre under the direction of the esteemed Dr. Sanduk Ruit.

She also spent spent 2 hours at a orphange buying the kids lunch, etc.

Supposedly, while she was there she met the royal family of Bhutan. She seems to do these tours on Behalf of the Franks Family Foundation.

Eugenie has visited India And both York Princesses visited Germany in 2013.

I’m sure The Sussexes will still do tours officially or not as Beatrice seems to do similiar tours

 

[Somebody]

And the Government with all that ?
I mean, can you just make up unilaterally a website claiming you'll be a semi-royal or whatever, minding your own business in the US but pop up occasionally to represent the UK overseas ?
I guess the Government has a say, or worse, is maybe fed up with yet another royal antics in the let's say current challenging times.

Harry and Meghan can state they are still available for the Government to go on royal tours; however, it seems very unlikely that the government wants to send a half British/half American couple with professional careers of their own to represent them. And if they would want them to, they would have to ask the Sovereign as the only reason would be that they are still her family members - but I don't see her agreeing on that, now they have decided they are no longer interested in the role that was prepared for them and in which they were given a lot of opportunity to take on a huge Commonwealth role.

Harry and Meghan can easily continue with their private charitable causes but I am curious to see how their Commonwealth roles (that seemed to have been a way to provide them with a clear and interesting path of their own within the institution but that apparently wasn't 'enough' for them) will play out...

 

[poppy7]

You know this is one of two things.

1. Like everyone says. Tanturming teens.

2. Two people who are actually spinning out of control and need support more than anything else

Because this done calmly would have been a brief statement announcing a resigning from public duties, continuing to be in the family, yaga yaga.

But this is none of those things. It is volatile and quite frankly a little scary. I don't know whether to despair at them or worry about them profoundly.

 

[Somebody]

Beatrice has done tours similar to royal tours, all done privately rather than behalf of HM. (…)

I’m sure The Sussexes will still do tours officially or not as Beatrice seems to do similiar tours

Their website suggests that they expect to do royal tours representing the government. That's what seems highly unlikely in their 'new working model'. The relevant bit is:

Why do they carry out official overseas visits and who pays for it?
The Duke and Duchess proudly carry out official overseas visits in support of Her Majesty The Queen at the request of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO)(…). The length and location of these tours are determined by the FCO (…). All Official overseas visits are in support of Her Majesty’s Government’s objectives and paid for by The Sovereign Grant (…)

But yes, I fully assume that as part of their new charity/celebrity status they will still do visits to various countries attracting lots of media attention.

 

[Mbruno]

Harry and Meghan can state they are still available for the Government to go on royal tours; however, it seems very unlikely that the government wants to send a half British/half American couple with professional careers of their own to represent them. And if they would want them to, they would have to ask the Sovereign as the only reason would be that they are still her family members - but I don't see her agreeing on that, now they have decided they are no longer interested in the role that was prepared for them and in which they were given a lot of opportunity to take on a huge Commonwealth role.

Harry and Meghan can easily continue with their private charitable causes but I am curious to see how their Commonwealth roles (that seemed to have been a way to provide them with a clear and interesting path of their own within the institution but that apparently wasn't 'enough' for them) will play out...

I suspect the original intention was to negotiate some kind of arrangement which would allow them to live part-time in Canada , but still be under the command structure of The Firm.

Their hasty announcement basically burned that bridge in my opinion. I don’t see any official role for them now unless the Palace is really desesperate to save face.

And, again, let me repeat that I regret they dragged Canada into this mess.

 

[rob2008]

They will surely renounce titles, royal status and

This is a wildly irrational and chaotic decision. They will expect to benefit from royal status and the title all of which were gifted by the Queen on condition that they become British public property. If they have changed their minds and no longer wish the official association with the Crown, they have to give up royal status and the titles. Archie is "The Honourable Lord Archie" and one day he will be His Grace The Duke of Sussex. They perhaps wish to be like the younger generations of the Kents and Gloucesters who distantly orbit Buckingham Palace. However, Meghan and Harry's status is too big for this secondary role. I foresee an aimless existence yearning to be recognised by LA royalty or some other pseudo form of celebrity status. In fact, this is turning into David II - although the Windsors probably had more funds available to them. Like the George VI situation, the credibility of the Cambridges is going to increase as the other brother becomes more disorderly.

 

[texankitcat]

This is such a mess of...epic proportions. It's a manipulations of so many different people and different scenarios.

They included the bit about being "financially independent" in hopes it would curry support from British Taxpayer. (Cheers mates, we don't have to pay for you! Brilliant!)

They made their announcement, without seemingly having an actual plan in place with the Royal Family (who seem honestly blindsided, and now trying to save face)... and in doing so, meant they get to keep their titles and HRH for the time being. Because now, if the palace comes out and tells them, "You want to be independent, be independent, but do it without being a Duke of Sussex or an HRH." They look retalitory.

This whole thing looks like a couple of petulant, over indulged teenagers who want to have their cake and eat it too.

I hope that is exactly he choice they will be given. You want independence to do what your want and earn money doing it, then you do so without the HRH status and Titles. Prince Harry is a Prince by birth so that won’t change, but all other titles and privileges including protections officers, etc.., will now be their financial,responsibility. Mr Meghan Markle, have a nice life. Hope you don’t regret it.

 

[Mbruno]

This is a wildly irrational and chaotic decision. They will expect to benefit from royal status and the title all of which were gifted by the Queen on condition that they become British public property. If they have changed their minds and no longer wish the official association with the Crown, they have to give up royal status and the titles. Archie is "The Honourable Lord Archie" and one day he will be His Grace The Duke of Sussex. They perhaps wish to be like the younger generations of the Kents and Gloucesters who distantly orbit Buckingham Palace. However, Meghan and Harry's status is too big for this secondary role. I foresee an aimless existence yearning to be recognised by LA royalty or some other pseudo form of celebrity status. In fact, this is turning into David II - although the Windsors probably had more funds available to them. Like the George VI situation, the credibility of the Cambridges is going to increase as the other brother becomes more disorderly.

True, David benefitted from the financial settlement when he transferred the main line’s private fortune to his brother. Harry doesn’t have that luxury.

 

[Ista]

Well.

I wish I could say I am surprised, but I'm not, and I'm not even that shocked at the disorganized, inconsiderate way this is being done, because the one thing Harry and Meghan have been extremely consistent in, is their complete and total lack of wisdom in the way they position themselves. They have an appalling lack of judgment.

I'm so disappointed that in less than 3 years they are flaming out so spectacularly. What's next? An announcement that all they really long for is to be considered the king and queen of people's hearts?

We'll see how this plays out, but right now I am not feeling much respect for how this is being handled by H and M, and I'm extremely concerned about where this is all going to end. It may well be the right thing for them to do on a personal level, but the process is a mess.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

Thanks.

And I agree.

The full Palace statement for reference:
"Published 8 January 2020

Discussions with The Duke and Duchess of Sussex are at an early stage. We understand their desire to take a different approach, but these are complicated issues that will take time to work through"

So either:
A) H&M panicked and issued their statement way too premature and without consulting the palace first. - That is more than ill-advised IMO! Any competent advisor should IMO have counseled against such a move.
B) Or and that's pretty ominous, H&M lost patience and tried to force events in their desired direction. That would IMO be a very unwise move because in that way they have angered not only the BRF, but the British population in general as well? (Britons here can answer that question better than me.)

I’m still trying to wrap my head around all this. What a mess.

Anyway, I think it is option B. I think Harry & Meghan were being reined in and decided to go rogue in hopes they could forcr their desired outcome. Which as stated by them seems pretty ridiculous and untenable, IMO.

 

[Osipi]

Harry and Meghan can easily continue with their private charitable causes but I am curious to see how their Commonwealth roles (that seemed to have been a way to provide them with a clear and interesting path of their own within the institution but that apparently wasn't 'enough' for them) will play out...

Wouldn't residing part of the year in Canada be actually residing part of the year in a Commonwealth country? To me, that is actually highlighting their Commonwealth positions and goals to support and work for the Commonwealth nations.

I can't wrap my head around the supposition that Harry would blatantly blindside his grandmother. He's always seemed to be quite close to her and it seems so out of character for him to even *think* about hurting her in any way. The original statement issued said "We look forward to sharing the full details of this exciting next step in due course, as we continue to collaborate with Her Majesty The Queen, The Prince of Wales, The Duke of Cambridge, and all relevant parties. Until then, please accept our deepest thanks for your continued support.” I can't picture Harry being so underhanded as to state something like this and knowing well that no one else knew a thing about their plans. Just being logical here.

I also have read over and over again the statement "We intend to step back as ‘senior’ members of the Royal Family, and work to become financially independent.." Does this necessarily state point blank that "financially independent" as in relation to their own pockets and profit? Or could it mean that their work, their office and staff will be financially independent from the "Firm"?

The website now divides itself into three portions of where Harry and Meghan's goals are going to be. The Community, the Monarchy and the Commonwealth. Is that really so much different than what their aims were when they were with the "Firm"?

It'll be interesting to see how everything develops from here on out. I'm not going to even think of forming a judgement or opinion until the fog lifts on so many questions that have been presented just by all of us here in this thread. I'm sure everyone and their mailman's nemesis called "Fang" on Everyday Street has wheels turning like crazy in their heads over all this. ?

 

[Betsypaige]

I didn’t want to say David’s name, but I can’t help bringing him up. Unlike the Duke of Windsor, I think Harry is a good guy, but he’s also apparently still got that untamed, irresponsible side of him that we saw when he dressed up as a Nazi for Halloween. If he’s so unhappy, ok talk to the your father and grandmother - just be patient and work it out. Instead, in taking it to the media and blindsiding his family, Harry has proven that he’s as much an attention hog as he is someone who wants to do good.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

Silly question, but how would Harry and Meghan live and work in Canada for an extended period of time ? What would their immigration status be ? I am assuming neither one is a Canadian citizen.

And does this stop Meghan’s application for British citizenship?

 

[4Pam]

Do they get to keep their titles?

 

[lea]

Does anyone else think that things are going to change anyway, when Charles becomes King? There will be people that support the Queen that won’t feel that loyalty to Charles. Likewise, there may be people and organizations the Queen supports that Charles won’t. I seriously doubt The Royal Family is going to continue to operate exactly the same, they are not immune from change.

Perhaps there have already been behind the scenes conversations about this and Harry and Meghan want to move forward now rather than waiting for things to develop. In their position, some of us might do the same.

 

[rominet09]

Utterly sad and disappointed, they were my favourite royals…. Well everyone has the right to choose one's life…. sad for me anyway…..

 

[O-H Anglophile]

Does anyone else think that things are going to change anyway, when Charles becomes King? There will be people that support the Queen that won’t feel that loyalty to Charles. Likewise, there may be people and organizations the Queen supports that Charles won’t. I seriously doubt The Royal Family is going to continue to operate exactly the same, they are not immune from change.

Perhaps there have already been behind the scenes conversations about this and Harry and Meghan want to move forward now rather than waiting for things to develop. In their position, some of us might do the same.

Not by this blatantly disrepectful move.

 

[JessRulz]

And does this stop Meghan’s application for British citizenship?

The requirements for British citizenship under the 'apply if your spouse is British' section are that the applicant does not "spend more than 270 days outside the UK during the 3 years before your application; spend more than 90 days outside the UK in the last 12 months". There is a caveat for those whose "partner works abroad either for the UK government or an organisation closely linked to government." (Which I don't think the Government is going to give Harry at all).

IMO, at this point it seems like Meghan's intention to take up British citizenship should be taken much like the pre-wedding "intention" for Camilla to become Princess Consort -- saving face/a way to not annoy the public.

It is blatantly obvious this whole thing has not been fully thought out, with regards to ANY detail, regardless of how much the Sussex website says it has. The Sussex website reads like a 'wish-list' of what the couple want - it remains to be seen if The Firm will capitulate to much of it.

I sincerely hope Harry and Meghan have a long-term "financial independence" plan - because they will only be financed by the Duchy of Cornwall while Charles is DoC - there is no way in hell William will give them money from the Duchy once he takes over, so their plan better be sound or are they assuming that Charles as King will still cover 95% of their costs (via the Duchy of Lancaster) and that the public is going to be okay with it? And if that's their plan, that's not what I call "financial independence" - but then again, neither is being financed 95% by your father...

 

[lea]

Not by this blatantly disrepectful move.

Sorry? I’m not sure what your statement means in response to my post?

 

[Somebody]

Wouldn't residing part of the year in Canada be actually residing part of the year in a Commonwealth country? To me, that is actually highlighting their Commonwealth positions and goals to support and work for the Commonwealth nations.

I don't think living in another Commonwealth nation is close to fulfilling their Commonwealth roles, such as being the Youth Ambassador (Harry) or having an honorary position regarding the universities (Meghan).

I can't wrap my head around the supposition that Harry would blatantly blindside his grandmother. He's always seemed to be quite close to her and it seems so out of character for him to even *think* about hurting her in any way. The original statement issued said "We look forward to sharing the full details of this exciting next step in due course, as we continue to collaborate with Her Majesty The Queen, The Prince of Wales, The Duke of Cambridge, and all relevant parties. Until then, please accept our deepest thanks for your continued support.” I can't picture Harry being so underhanded as to state something like this and knowing well that no one else knew a thing about their plans. Just being logical here.

The suggestion that they recently told them they truly wanted a different role/approach and discussions about how this role could be crafted were just starting up, would fit in with both this statement 'continue to collaborate' and BP's 'an early stage'.

I also have read over and over again the statement "We intend to step back as ‘senior’ members of the Royal Family, and work to become financially independent.." Does this necessarily state point blank that "financially independent" as in relation to their own pockets and profit? Or could it mean that their work, their office and staff will be financially independent from the "Firm"?

Best to also read the 'funding'-page on their website. That will clarify a lot. They quite clearly state that one of the main reasons is that they want to be able to have professional income and that that is incompatible with their current role.

The website now divides itself into three portions of where Harry and Meghan's goals are going to be. The Community, the Monarchy and the Commonwealth. Is that really so much different than what their aims were when they were with the "Firm"?

Good question: if the aims are the same; why create such a big rift?

It'll be interesting to see how everything develops from here on out. I'm not going to even think of forming a judgement or opinion until the fog lifts on so many questions that have been presented just by all of us here in this thread. I'm sure everyone and their mailman's nemesis called "Fang" on Everyday Street has wheels turning like crazy in their heads over all this. ?

One of the few things we can be sure of based on the two statements provided by H&M and BP is that they currently don't see eye-to-eye.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

Sorry? I’m not sure what your statement means in response to my post?

That it was disrespectful of Harry & Meghan to make this move as they did-no matter what reason they are using.

Disrespectful to the Queen, Harry’s father and the people/public who embraced and suported them.

 

[lea]

That it was disrespectful of Harry & Meghan to make this move as they did-no matter what reason they are using.

Thanks very much for explaining! For myself, I’m not sure if it was disrespectful or not. I don’t have extendable ears.

 

[Jannedde]

I honestly don't see that Meghan got that much hassle from the press. .

You only have to read the Daily Mail comments to see the vitioral about MM. I think William and Kate were happy when Harry was unmarried as they treated him as a puppy, and so often William would say sarcastic things about Harry in public. I think Charles has supported MM but I don't think William or Kate have at all.

With the recent emphasis and continual photos of the direct line of succession, Harry would be sidelined and I think this is the right move, though it appears to be poorly executed.

 

[Somebody]

And does this stop Meghan’s application for British citizenship?

See Citizen-topic; most likely best to move that discussion to the topic specifically created for these discussions.