The Duke and Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 8: April - August 2023

[Asteria12]

I would suggest it was the dramatic nature of their statement that has led to blame being levelled at them. Certainly, a review of what occurred and how things might be done better is warranted.

 

[Curryong]

Well, Ashley Momtehini is the Sussexes and Archewell’s Global Communications Secretary so I presume she was their spokesman on the night. She should be part of the debriefing team too, then.

https://www.standard.co.uk/insider/royals/harry-meghan-hollywood-advising-team-b74829.html

 

[UglyAmerican]

I'm not saying it's impossible that some security personnel made imperfect decisions, but reports are that their primary bodyguard that night was a former Secret Service agent who protected both Bush and Obama. This guy would have known his stuff, and I don't believe anyone with that sort of background and training would have told their principals that a two-hour car chase was preferable to either going directly to their destination or stopping at a hotel and letting the hotel sort out the photographers. Photographers camping out on the sidewalk is annoying but not dangerous. A car chase has the potential to be dangerous, and unnecessarily prolonging it would have gone against his instincts and his training.

I also very much doubt anyone with any expertise would have told them that staying at a friend's home and going directly there after a high-profile event, while keeping the location secret, was a workable plan. I can't believe that their security personnel told them this was a better plan than staying at one of NYC's many hotels accustomed to celebrity guests.

I think it's more likely that the couple (or perhaps just Meghan - who does Harry know in New York?) had some personal reason for wanting to stay with this friend, and decided they'd rather follow their own preferences than the advice of their own hired experts. Turns out the experts were right, and predictable havoc ensued. This is a consistent pattern with these two, and they never seem to learn from it. Maybe they will this time, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Curryong]

As I said in my previous post what havoc ensued on previous visits to New York. And one man in the security team may have been very experienced. That doesn’t mean that others on their team were.

As for staying with friends Meghan and Harry stayed for months at a friend’s house for months when they first lived in LA (he offered, they gratefully accepted), and no chaos ensued there, did it?

 

[Sunnystar]

As I said in my previous post what havoc ensued on previous visits to New York. And one man in the security team may have been very experienced. That doesn’t mean that others on their team were.

As for staying with friends Meghan and Harry stayed for months at a friend’s house for months when they first lived in LA (he offered, they gratefully accepted), and no chaos ensued there, did it?

You know, Curryong, you've taken this tact in your last few posts of asking what havoc ensued on previous trips to NYC, in an attempt to make this seem extraordinary. I'd posit the hypothesis that whatever ensued this time around was not all that different than those previous trips to NYC, except that, for reasons known only to the Sussexes, they decided there needed to be a press release.

For all we know, what happened Tuesday night (being followed by paps) IS normal on their trips to NYC. Or, perhaps, having Doria in the car with them made them realize just how abnormal it is and that's what provoked them to issue the press release on Wednesday.

And, you absolutely cannot compare their stays at a "friend's" home in LA with Manhattan. First of all, everyone KNEW they were staying at Tyler Perry's LA mansion. They were deliberately trying to keep their location in Manhattan secret. Second, Tyler Perry's LA mansion is, per House Beautiful 24,545 square feet and sits on a 22 ACRE lot. It would take longer to drive across Tyler Perry's LA lot than it does to go from the Ziegfield Ballroom to the two nearest police precincts (the 19th Precinct where they ultimately wound up is a 9-minute drive, while the Midtown North Precinct is about 7 minutes away in the opposite direction).

Regardless, there are two consistent threads I'm hearing/seeing in commentary from New Yorkers about this incident - 1) celebrities are a dime a dozen in Manhattan and most manage to go about their daily business with little fanfare and paparazzi attention, 2) there is no reason why they were followed for as long as they were unless they/their security team made some poor choices (including not going to the nearest police precinct much sooner than they did).

 

[Curryong]

I take this tack because I believe in exploring all the possible options before, as seems usual here, immediately blaming Harry and Meghan for absolutely everything.
I do think this occurrence is out of the ordinary. I believe that if this sort of thing had happened before on their visits to NY (and I have visited there so I do know the place) then it would have been reported by local sources and then the British tabloids would have immediately made a meal of it in their newspapers. BTW, the couple’s location when they first lived in LA was kept quiet by them as was their Montecito address. It was a British tabloid that first broke that story.

If most celebrities usually go about their business including when attending events, then I would contend that the same happened when the Sussexes previously visited NY. The only thing different this time is that the couple, plus Doria, didn’t stay in a hotel but with friends. Perhaps a friend of Doria’s. Plus I believe that members of their own security were a bit reckless and maybe the paps were as well.

 

[kalnel]

To my mind, it almost doesn't matter what the security officer did or what the paparazzi did. By issuing the hyperbolic press release, H&M have raised the stakes (again) and made it all again them (again).

Imagine if they had issued a statement that said, "We are very distressed last night at the behavior of paparazzi who attempted to chase us after the awards, endangering other drivers and pedestrians. We urge them to act responsibly and avoid putting the public at risk."

You might argue that they'd still draw attention to themselves, but instead of more "look at me, I'm a victim." something about others would be more appropriate for these aspiring humanitarians.

Sometimes I watch these two and I really worry how this will end up. They seem all too willing to keep upping the stakes.

 

[Asteria12]

Unfortunately there is a climate of distrust that absolutely swirls around them. The distrust harks back to their very words and actions over the past few years, and that means they simply lack credibility to many people. It is an issue that they need to address and change if they ever want to be taken seriously. Its just a shame that they either haven't had experienced advisors before or maybe they haven't accepted the advice they have been given by said experienced advisors and insisted on doing things their way. Either way, their statement simply did not do them any favours. I agree with you Kalnel, if only they'd worded it better.

 

[kimebear]

The differences between this visit to NYC and other are:

1. Harry has just been in court to push for the ability to hire UK police protection.

and

2. Brand Sussex has taken a rather large PR hit stemming from all the negative reaction to Spare.

So, no. This isn't like any other trip they took.

Perhaps the paps were more aggressive this time, or perhaps the Sussexes are making a mountain out of a molehill because it suits their needs at the moment.

 

[UglyAmerican]

Do we know that photographers didn't follow them after high-profile appearances on previous trips to New York? It seems very likely that they did (as they often do with celebrities), and it wasn't perceived as a major event because the Sussexes didn't issue a greatly exaggerated press release about it. If they didn't follow them on previous trips, that may have been because the press already knew where they were staying, so there was no reason to trying to figure out where they were going. It would have been more efficient to just have another photographer camped out near the entrance to their hotel.

As for Tyler Perry's mansion, IIRC, that was during covid and they didn't really go anywhere (just like most of the rest of us didn't). They were occasionally spotted volunteering and may have organized some smaller events like visiting support groups, but they didn't go to any high-profile red carpet events that were packed with photographers, because no such events were happening. And even if they had been happening, everyone already knew where they were staying, so there would have been no reason to follow them back to his house.

As others pointed out, the house itself is on a huge lot, and there would have been no way of photographing them there without trespassing on private property. That's a very different situation from photographing someone while on a public street, which is perfectly legal in the US. If the New York property was a friend's residence, it was probably a townhouse or apartment in a building that directly abutted the sidewalk, with no yard. I don't think free-standing detached houses exist in Manhattan - if they do, there aren't very many, and not even the uber-rich typically have them. Unlike Tyler Perry's house, it would have been easy to get pictures of them while standing on public property like a sidewalk or in a neighboring building. Photographers based there would have known that, just like photographers based in SoCal would have known it was hopeless with Perry's house.

I think it's worth keeping in mind that they were in New York unnoticed for an unknown length of time, staying with this anonymous friend, probably coming and going with the press being none the wiser. They could have made any number of those low-key trips in the past few years, and we wouldn't know about it. And good for them if they did! What was different this time was their decision to attend a high-profile event that they knew would be a media circus, pose for pictures on their way out, then proceed directly from there to a location they wished to keep secret. I doubt they've ever tried that before, because it's just an obviously terrible idea and someone on their staff would have pointed that out. If they've done it before and pulled it off, then they got lucky once or twice. It's not a reliable strategy, and it was inevitable that it would fail sooner or later.

 

[HighnessN]

I take this tack because I believe in exploring all the possible options before, as seems usual here, immediately blaming Harry and Meghan for absolutely everything.
I do think this occurrence is out of the ordinary. I believe that if this sort of thing had happened before on their visits to NY (and I have visited there so I do know the place) then it would have been reported by local sources and then the British tabloids would have immediately made a meal of it in their newspapers. BTW, the couple’s location when they first lived in LA was kept quiet by them as was their Montecito address. It was a British tabloid that first broke that story.

If most celebrities usually go about their business including when attending events, then I would contend that the same happened when the Sussexes previously visited NY. The only thing different this time is that the couple, plus Doria, didn’t stay in a hotel but with friends. Perhaps a friend of Doria’s. Plus I believe that members of their own security were a bit reckless and maybe the paps were as well.

The big difference with this trip was where they were staying.
They had Paps follow them in other trips but because they were not trying to keep their destination private, it was not a big issue.
In my opinion, what led to this mess was the attempt to lose their Pap trail after a big event. Instead of a straight forward drive home, a 2 hour chase occured.
The best plan would have been to have them stay at a hotel that night & have them sneak out to their friends house in the early morning via a back door. Their security should have known better & given them realistic & practical advice.

As for their PR team, I have previously said that they are bad at what they do. Its always a PR mess after another.

 

[stellam]

I enjoyed reading each and every comment regarding 'The Chase.' I have stopped reading newspaper articles about Harry and Megan, I just read the headlines. I am aware that Harry is battling(for want of a better word) the Home Secretary office with regards to security issues and I was wondering if this episode suited Harry's purpose, hence him taking a video, to use as evidence for his complaint with the Home Office issue. Just my opinion.
My eyebrows raised when I read the comment about the posters on this board 'being in a bubble' etc, as I think the posters here show respect, have good arguments and if we step out of outline, the Moderators step in and thanks to them for keeping control of this board. Some of the comments I read on social media platforms were extremely scathing.

Lets see what will hit the news this week the Montecito couple although it could be that they will lie low until this storm also passes.

 

[Alison H]

There's a meme doing the rounds which says "After a two hour car chase, the paparazzi finally managed to shake off Harry and Meghan". OK, it's not meant to be taken seriously, but the point is that they constantly seek publicity. That being the case, they have to expect that people will want to take photos of them. As other people have said, they should have just gone to a hotel.

 

[Denville]

I enjoyed reading each and every comment regarding 'The Chase.' I have stopped reading newspaper articles about Harry and Megan, I just read the headlines. I am aware that Harry is battling(for want of a better word) the Home Secretary office with regards to security issues and I was wondering if this episode suited Harry's purpose, hence him taking a video, to use as evidence for his complaint with the Home Office issue. Just my opinion.
My eyebrows raised when I read the comment about the posters on this board 'being in a bubble' etc, as I think the posters here show respect, have good arguments and if we step out of outline, the Moderators step in and thanks to them for keeping control of this board. Some of the comments I read on social media platforms were extremely scathing.

Lets see what will hit the news this week the Montecito couple although it could be that they will lie low until this storm also passes.

but what exacty is his point? Is he trying to say that paparrazzi follow him, so he has a case for security in the UK even when he is on private business? The Home office are not IMO going to be influenced by some alleged car chase in NY, if THEY deem that Harry needs protection in the UK they would supply it...

 

[Katymcwaity]

The funny thing is that whatever award Meghan was getting has been lost in all noise.

I immediately doubted the statement, isn’t that terrible! But the boy who cried wolf etc. I was waiting for something to blow up before the coronation and thank goodness it didn’t.

 

[angieuk]

I'm wondering if Harry will now give another TV interview so he can start the blame game. He was clearly taking photos on his phone. The question is what does he intend doing with those photos? Does he intend making them public?
Why is he demanding photos from the News Agency; as he does not have the copyright to make them public? Unless he's off to Court again! A new day, another new Court case.

 

[Granada]

I too love reading all the Comments and views on this "Car Chase" debacle. Entirely orchestrated by the publicly obsessed Sussex's in my opinion. They just never expected it blow up as spectacularly as it did though.

A few thoughts.... I wonder how easy it will be for The Sussex's in future to hire top notch Security in NY City for events ? The Agency in charge that night, "reputation" has certainly taken a hit. Or to hire in California also for high profile functions.

I completely agree with Erin9 " I don't think their security was the problem, The Sussex's probably ignored the advice they were given". IS EXACTLY my take too. Do to non disclosure agreements, we will never find out either. But "word" will get around between Security Companies, who after seeing this debacle unfold, I'm guessing would be hesitant to take them on as Clients. I know I would be.

Second, as Kimbear posts,....."Harry is a public figure, whether he likes it or not. He will always be the the son of King Charles or the brother of King William". And THAT is his exact problem.

He can't seem to break from that and be a "global influencer" in his OWN right. Which is his, and Meghan's desire.
As he outlined in The Book, and in Interviews he is bitterly jealous, and seemingly has always been, of his junior or secondary role, a "Spare".

Invictus wasn't enough sadly, and he together with Meghan, struggle to find that "niche" to bring acclaim and fame (and riches) in their own right.
But, whether it be championship of Mental health issues, Women empowerment, or being supposed Green-Environment Leaders, it never seems to resonate enough in public or bring them the praise and adulation they crave.

So the default is always.... complaining about The Royal Family and Firm. And spilling tawdry stories and accusations.

 

[Denville]

but they are not doing anything are they? They are looking around for awards for being public figures or for charity work, like any 2 bit celebrity wanting to be noticed and admired. If they really dedicated themselves to some kind of solid work, they would not need awards and then they wouldnt have to go to these ceremonies and risk being seen by photographers

 

[Alisa]

but they are not doing anything are they? They are looking around for awards for being public figures or for charity work, like any 2 bit celebrity wanting to be noticed and admired. If they really dedicated themselves to some kind of solid work, they would not need awards and then they wouldnt have to go to these ceremonies and risk being seen by photographers

You are describing the vast majority of the work of all royals.

 

[Denville]

They are NOT royals.

 

[Emmily]

I really don’t think that going to default position all the time and blaming the Sussexes for everything that occurred at this most recent evening event is helpful, if it turns out that new and maybe inexperienced members of their security did the wrong thing. If I were Harry and Meghan I would sit down with my team, debrief, get everyone’s take on it, and then perhaps decide on changes if they ware needed.

Their default position seems to be exaggerating and blaming everyone else for everything that happens. Is that helpful?

 

[Prinsara]

Also, publicizing it. If the fault was with members of their security team, what did that press release serve?

 

[Granada]

I believe "Their Brand" took a big hit with this. And will be difficult to bounce back from. Same as the reaction to Spare and The Netflix Docu-series that certainly didn't do their reputations ANY favors.

The "victim" narrative they have crafted for the past three plus years is on life support now. The South Park Skit, mercilessly lampooning and highlighting that baffling strategy of theirs, proves that.

And how did The Sussex's immediately react again this week ? Pushing an exaggerated and preposterous claim about being in a "near catastrophic car chase", that has been questioned, debunked, and now worst for them.....absolutely mocked and laughed at.

For all of Meghans " supposed " Hollywood PR cred at promoting herself, as well as a degree in International Relations from Northwestern University, this strategy that The Sussex's are pursuing is a giant fail. They really should take a few months off and rethink their profile and goals. Because what they are doing isn't working for them in a positive manner.

 

[shady lady]

but they are not doing anything are they? They are looking around for awards for being public figures or for charity work, like any 2 bit celebrity wanting to be noticed and admired. If they really dedicated themselves to some kind of solid work, they would not need awards and then they wouldnt have to go to these ceremonies and risk being seen by photographers

They lack real direction or purpose.

I decided to check out the Archewell website.

H&M set up Archewell championing good works and on the front page of their website it states: "leading the way with compassion"[.....]

Then I ventured into the page called "AWF Marks Earth Day 2023" which contains a short piece about said Earth Day and has a link to allow you to find out ways to get involved with it. I was expecting to go to another page on their website with a list of things we can all do to save the planet (I didn't expect to see "don't use private jets" on the list I have to admit ) but all it does is redirect you to the Earthday website. So anyone who wants to save the planet can find a wealth of valuable information on how to do so without visiting H&M's website.

Next I looked in the news section and picked an article called "An In Depth Look at The Fight to Save the Okavango Delta". This "in depth" article actually contains very little and the real information is provided by links to Rolling Stone Magazine and a page on a site called Re:wild.

I then went to the page "About Archwell", saw the words: "At Archewell, we unleash the power of compassion to drive systemic cultural change." and I just fell about laughing. To misquote John McEnroe: They cannot be serious! At that point I thought, enough! and left the website for the sake of my sanity

To summarise, H&M's website seems rather superfluous. It's like they've squeezed (or gatecrashed) their way into a party; a room that's already very well populated with people who for a very long time have been discussing and indeed acting upon the issues H&M are latching on to.

My honest opinion? They've jumped onto the bandwagon of environment/poverty/mental health where they're really not needed, to do as little real work as possible yet present themselves as "humanitarians". It's not working.

As you said Denville in a previous post: What else can they do? And you answer the question too, above, with "solid work". They both love Africa apparently. Then if it's viable in security terms, why not (for example) go and live over there and set up and run some kind of foundation/business and make a hands-on contribution of real value? It's a huge continent with a wealth of opportunities for them to do real good. I've read before that HLM wanted them to try this; did she feel they - Harry in particular - could find their real vocation and live a life of real service there? That Harry would find peace? (Speculative I know, but our late Queen was a very wise lady indeed).

The answer is, I fear, that they won't do something like this because it's too much like hard work. Sadly, they seem far too obsessed with themselves than the causes they claim to champion. It's so much easier to jump on a plane to go and collect a pointless award in New York, and run a pretty much meaningless website from a luxury mansion in California.

All MOO (and apologies for being such a long post!!!! I'm away on a short break now)

 

[Iluvbertie]

They are NOT royals.

They are very much royals.

They have been told to not use their HRHs when making money but they ae still HRHs for all other situations

No Letters Patent or any other means has ever been issued to remove the HRH or Prince status from Harry and Meghan takes her status from his.

George VI said it best when he intervened after the abdication. The BBC wanted to introduce the abdicated Edward VIII as Mr Edward Windsor but George VI stepped in and said words to the effect 'he will always be the son of a Sovereign and so always will be a Prince' The BBC introduced him as HRH The Prince Edward.

Harry is the same - the son of a Sovereign of the UK and thus always HRH The Prince Henry with the added peerage titles of Duke, Earl and Baron.

Like the York princesses, who don't use HRH at work, Harry was asked not to do so but was never stripped of that style. That would take actual paperwork by either the late Queen or Charles III, which neither have done.

 

[FigTree]

They lack real direction or purpose.

I decided to check out the Archewell website.

H&M set up Archewell championing good works and on the front page of their website it states: "leading the way with compassion"[.....]

Then I ventured into the page called "AWF Marks Earth Day 2023" which contains a short piece about said Earth Day and has a link to allow you to find out ways to get involved with it. I was expecting to go to another page on their website with a list of things we can all do to save the planet (I didn't expect to see "don't use private jets" on the list I have to admit ) but all it does is redirect you to the Earthday website. So anyone who wants to save the planet can find a wealth of valuable information on how to do so without visiting H&M's website.

Next I looked in the news section and picked an article called "An In Depth Look at The Fight to Save the Okavango Delta". This "in depth" article actually contains very little and the real information is provided by links to Rolling Stone Magazine and a page on a site called Re:wild.

I then went to the page "About Archwell", saw the words: "At Archewell, we unleash the power of compassion to drive systemic cultural change." and I just fell about laughing. To misquote John McEnroe: They cannot be serious! At that point I thought, enough! and left the website for the sake of my sanity

To summarise, H&M's website seems rather superfluous. It's like they've squeezed (or gatecrashed) their way into a party; a room that's already very well populated with people who for a very long time have been discussing and indeed acting upon the issues H&M are latching on to.

My honest opinion? They've jumped onto the bandwagon of environment/poverty/mental health where they're really not needed, to do as little real work as possible yet present themselves as "humanitarians". It's not working.

As you said Denville in a previous post: What else can they do? And you answer the question too, above, with "solid work". They both love Africa apparently. Then if it's viable in security terms, why not (for example) go and live over there and set up and run some kind of foundation/business and make a hands-on contribution of real value? It's a huge continent with a wealth of opportunities for them to do real good. I've read before that HLM wanted them to try this; did she feel they - Harry in particular - could find their real vocation and live a life of real service there? That Harry would find peace? (Speculative I know, but our late Queen was a very wise lady indeed).

The answer is, I fear, that they won't do something like this because it's too much like hard work. Sadly, they seem far too obsessed with themselves than the causes they claim to champion. It's so much easier to jump on a plane to go and collect a pointless award in New York, and run a pretty much meaningless website from a luxury mansion in California.

All MOO (and apologies for being such a long post!!!! I'm away on a short break now)

Well yeah. Pretty much vacuous. A bit embarassing. Like that visit to that teen club that no press bit over. Their only point is to promote these charities. They don't actually want to see you.

 

[Prinsara]

You are describing the vast majority of the work of all royals.

Not really; the vast majority of the work of all working royals is having endless meetings and showing up in small towns on wet days to profess interest in what other people have done, and shake hands.

Or as other people have written, royalty subsume themselves in an institution and gain gravitas by that. Celebrities do the opposite.

 

[Silverpot]

As I said in my previous post what havoc ensued on previous visits to New York. And one man in the security team may have been very experienced. That doesn’t mean that others on their team were.

As for staying with friends Meghan and Harry stayed for months at a friend’s house for months when they first lived in LA (he offered, they gratefully accepted), and no chaos ensued there, did it?

I think that what's happened between now and then is - everything. Then, they were ex-royals just trying to make a mark in the US, but since they've become Celebreties. It happens when you expose yourself with podcasts, documentaries and an autobiography, in a very short time frame. They've really been pushing themselves, up close and personal. They have arrived.

No wonder the entertainment business show interest in them and send out paps to take pics.

This is devastating for Harry, but Meghan laps it all up, delightedly. She is where she wants to be.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

You are describing the vast majority of the work of all royals.

This is laughable, the Sussexes (Montecitos) represent no one but themselves and their attempts at trying to be a “rival court” in America (of all places )is a joke. Their questionable commercial ventures are not part of any monarchy work

 

[TLLK]

You are describing the vast majority of the work of all royals.

I respectfully disagree. If you were to read the Current Events and News threads of the various royals, in particular those who are their nation's Heads of State, their daily calendars are do not resemble anything that can be related to celebrity life and self-promotion. It's meetings with government ministers, signing legislation, welcoming ambassadors, reading reports, and honoring those who represent the best of their nations.



It's traveling your nation on a domestic tour to go to a factory opening, touring a cancer ward on a hospital, comforting those affected by a natural or human disaster. Much of it is not glamorous and I can imagine it can be very difficult at times to keep your emotions in check.



Then it's traveling the globe as your nation's top representative which can include nations where you might have personal conflicts and concerns about the leaders whom you will be required to interact with.