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  #2261  
Old 01-13-2020, 07:38 PM
Heir Apparent
 
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Wow great day to be stuck in work after weekend building to this lol.

Well as for HM's statement - I don't think I've seen such a human, genuine statement from HM in a long long time, if ever (publicly at least).

The statement reminds us, that while we have all focussed in part on the implications "officially" the Queen has been looking at this IMO as a family. Its interesting after all the issues the media said would be discussed, it seems HM focusses on using this opportunity to presumably ask again or Harry to reconsider hence why the only outcome is that (as we all thought anyway) the Sussex are set on their course of action, nothing has been signed off so I suspect this was a change for everyone to ask Harry if there was another way.

I suspect the days leading up to today will have been filled with people putting together a comprehensive document of next steps for this cause of action and those will now move forward, being announced once they have been signed off by everyone (royals, staff, governments etc)

I get the impression the "transition" period will be until this happens and the Sussex's can organise themselves, their charity links etc before pretty much a full time move overseas it appears. Certainly a lot of the media are saying Meghan has decided the UK isn't for her so I don't see her coming back for any extended period of time so can't see her doing lots of duties over here.

In some ways I suspect HM maybe doesn't care as much about the finances, the titles and the rest of it. Today her grandson told her he wants out of the enterprise she has led for 65 years, that she has put her heart and soul into and has worked everyday since becoming Queen for. She saw her husband have to give up a very promising Naval career when she came to the throne, she had to balance being a young mother with being a Head of State, so I would not be surprised if she simply doesn't understand Harry and Meghan's decision or thinking at all (thats not a criticism, often people of different generations fail to understand the cause for each others actions) I bet that has broken her heart to be honest and in some ways perhaps the timing of this has been for the best, she is secluded at Sandringham, the most homely of residences, with Philip and friends with a break from having to go about public duties. Unlike the Andrew saga the outcome of this is deeply deeply personal. She is 93 years old, Philip is 5 months from being 99, she probably knows the likelihood is she will no longer have any real meaningful meetings, interactions etc with her grandson, his wife and her great grandson. I'm not tying to be a downer but I just find it heartbreaking and bet HM does to.

I said before but really do mean I think the best things the royal family could do now is go and spend some time with HM and Philip (and Charles and William) all at Sandringham.

I do find it interesting how proactive in PR terms the Royals have been in this issue, they really have learnt form mistakes of the past (War of Wales etc) IMO and got out their way to show that HM has spoken to Harry, looked for alternatives and when Harry and Meghan are adamant on their course of action, let them take it.
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  #2262  
Old 01-13-2020, 07:38 PM
Countessmeout's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
HMQ came to the Throne when she was just 25 [younger than Harry], she too had a foreign spouse, from a 'broken home' [at a time when Britain was considerably more unfriendly to foreigners than it is today]. He faced massive hostility [albeit without the rampant press], but from an 'establishment' and Court [who he lived amongst] that resented and resisted every 'modernising' move he made.
Did he 'flounce out', resent his in-laws and adopted family,, encourage his wife to 'throw in the towel' for 'a better life' ?
NO, he [currently in the closing years [possibly months] of his existence, devoted himself to his adopted country, serving it selflessly ALL his long life.

No wonder the Sussexes DARE not look him in the face.
Yes the whole Harry is the mindless puppet brainwashed by his wife story.

1 Harry spoke of leaving royal life Before he ever met get
2 Philip didn't face 1/2 the racism Meghan faces, well his was slight xenophobia. Nor was that in a time of social media and Internet when press is 100 times more invasive then it was even during Diana life time.
3 Elizabeth was the queen, not the sixth in line to the throne. It would have required abdication. Not even remotely same situation.
4 Harry is not abandoning his family or even royal duties. He is simply not going to be a full time Royal.


I can't wait for Trooping. Every year people complain about too many royals. How they need to slim down. How the focus should be on the direct line. I can't wait to hear people now that they got what they wanted.

Was Edward ever accused of betraying his parents when he and sophie pursued their business? Was William accused of breaking his grandfather's heart when he spent years flying and not as a working Royal??
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  #2263  
Old 01-13-2020, 07:52 PM
Royal Highness
 
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Quote:
In some ways I suspect HM maybe doesn't care as much about the finances, the titles and the rest of it. Today her grandson told her he wants out of the enterprise she has led for 65 years, that she has put her heart and soul into and has worked everyday since becoming Queen for. I bet that has broken her heart to be honest and in some ways perhaps the timing of this has been for the best, she is secluded at Sandringham, the most homely of residences, with Philip and friends with a break from having to go about public duties. Unlike the Andrew saga the outcome of this is deeply deeply personal. She is 93 years old, Philip is 5 months from being 99, she probably knows the likelihood is she will no longer have any real meaningful meetings, interactions etc with her grandson, his wife and her great grandson. I'm not tying to be a downer but I just find it heartbreaking and bet HM does to.

I said before but really do mean I think the best things the royal family could do now is go and spend some time with HM and Philip (and Charles and William) all at Sandringham.

I do find it interesting how proactive in PR terms the Royals have been in this issue, they really have learnt form mistakes of the past (War of Wales etc) IMO and got out their way to show that HM has spoken to Harry, looked for alternatives and when Harry and Meghan are adamant on their course of action, let them take it.

They need a broken heart icon, sigh...

HM grew up as part of "we four", a family that was incredibly loving and close. Her own adult family has had their issues, but it seemed like everyone was pretty much happy and settled. They all live relatively close by, so even if they don't see each other that often, at least they know they are there. Now Harry wants to completely separate himself from everyone else - and that knowledge is extremely painful. My heart goes out to everyone, especially Charles - who must feel like he's losing his son. There is no happy solution here, it's just what is most .....agreeable, I guess. The happy solution would be if Harry and Meghan were staying. Who knows? Maybe one day they'll come back.

I agree, I think the Royals have handled this exceedingly well.
  #2264  
Old 01-13-2020, 07:56 PM
Majesty
 
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Location: Pittsburgh, United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
Yes the whole Harry is the mindless puppet brainwashed by his wife story.

1 Harry spoke of leaving royal life Before he ever met get
2 Philip didn't face 1/2 the racism Meghan faces, well his was slight xenophobia. Nor was that in a time of social media and Internet when press is 100 times more invasive then it was even during Diana life time.
3 Elizabeth was the queen, not the sixth in line to the throne. It would have required abdication. Not even remotely same situation.
4 Harry is not abandoning his family or even royal duties. He is simply not going to be a full time Royal.


I can't wait for Trooping. Every year people complain about too many royals. How they need to slim down. How the focus should be on the direct line. I can't wait to hear people now that they got what they wanted.

Was Edward ever accused of betraying his parents when he and sophie pursued their business? Was William accused of breaking his grandfather's heart when he spent years flying and not as a working Royal??
You know perfectly well that the situation is completely different,. Edward and Sophie never quit the country to build a global business brand overseas monetizing their royal titles and claiming to be “ disrupting “ the Royal Family in the process. And they never treated the Queen the way Harry treated his grandmother , his father and his brother with veiled threats and unexpected public announcements designed to push them to a corner.

Poor Edward and Sophie just tried to live normal, ordinary lives as some of their princely friends in the continent do. No Oprah, no multiple homes in Windsor, Whistler and Toronto, no public-funded
security, no Wessex Royal trademark in 3 continents covering stationery, sports goods ,clothing , alcoholic beverages and even self-help /support groups, no Disney or AppleTv plus deals, etc etc

Seriously , how can anyone even consider comparing the two situations ?
  #2265  
Old 01-13-2020, 07:59 PM
Aristocracy
 
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Posts: 247
Meghan gave marriage into the BRF a go, didnt like it and has moved on.

I wonder what reception she would get if she came back to the UK? It is not impossible that she will be snubbed for what she has done to HMQ and Philip.

Now that the racism card is out of the bottle, she would no longer be able to fight back with accusations of racism. The subject has been raised explicitly, it's out there. Everyone is so acutely aware of the racism accusations, every criticism would be scrutinised and if anyone wishes to be racist, they would know not to be - secondly, if it happened there would be severe suppression and condemnation. So this is a key defence that is no longer going to operate in the future surely.

Harry will always be one of ours - but will there be a cooling in the relatinship as well? Could he be snubbed for the above reasons - or worse?

Their son will one day be Duke of Sussex and probably by then he will be a distant minor celebrity - maybe big in the tv magazines (or their cultural equivalent in 50 years)
  #2266  
Old 01-13-2020, 08:01 PM
AdmirerUS's Avatar
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
After reading the statement from HM, The Queen, I've jumped forward in the thread to post my gut reactions from it... pulling Harry and Meghan into a full time partnership with the "Firm" is on hold. At this time. Perhaps even, there's regret that the full time expectations didn't work out and the chaos of the last few days is the result. The door is still open though.

Just my thoughts. As always.
Me too. I'm setting aside my emotions and asking so what? Set aside that the Sussexes are tossing in the full time towel and you have a life a lot like the really years of the Cambridge marriage. Which had William enjoying a very normal job for as long as he could. Which had a lot of time to be together and grow the kids. In fact, it still has a fair amount of that, given they have defined their work life for being around their children.

It was the Sussexes who leapt into MODERN FULL TIME royalty (not like their elders, but their style of full time) so quickly. Maybe that was not such a great choice. Maybe they were overconfident.

Time will tell whether they enjoy this 50/50 lifestyle, continue to not enjoy the firm, stay together and most of all have to face some unacceptable racism on a regular basis. I don't think any of us know. I don't think they know for sure.

I do think that as a family they need the same time and space Kate and Wills took. I think some resolution to the racist hatred will be easier to achieve as non-full-time royals.

I don't think it's a terrible thing BUT I ALSO think it looks a lot like Kate and Wills - the Early Years in a lot of ways.

Time will tell and I never wish ill on anyone. What's the point of that?
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  #2267  
Old 01-13-2020, 08:01 PM
Serene Highness
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post

Was Edward ever accused of betraying his parents when he and sophie pursued their business?
Did the Queen issue a public statement saying "we would have preferred them to remain full-time working Members of the Royal Family"?

And we known damn well if the Queen had wanted Edward & Sophie to be FT royals from the start they would have respected her wishes.


Quote:
Was William accused of breaking his grandfather's heart when he spent years flying and not as a working Royal??
And why would that have broken Philip's heart when he himself pursued a naval career following his marriage and only gave it up when his wife became Queen?

There is a *BIG* difference between *delaying* one's role as a FT royal and *rejecting* it.
  #2268  
Old 01-13-2020, 08:10 PM
Royal Highness
 
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Location: Woodbury, United States
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Quote:
The discussions were led by the Prince of Wales, who perhaps has more invested in the outcome than anyone. It will be his money that funds a future independent life for Harry and Meghan and it is their co-operation that he requires if he is to see through his dream of a slimmed-down monarchy fit for the 21st century.

Finding an accommodation was the watchword. William, who has so often been in disagreement with his father in recent times, is believed to have supported this approach. But it was the Queen to whom it has fallen to resolve this most heart-breaking family crisis. And the statement that came in her name was laced with despair.

Not since 1997 in the aftermath of the death of Diana has the Queen issued such a personal bulletin.

......

Unsaid was the anguish felt around the conference table at Sandringham yesterday afternoon that little more than 18 months after a wedding that delighted the watching world, no one knows what will happen to Harry and Meghan in their semi-detached status from the House of Windsor.

......

He was also able to see his father, who has been perplexed by his decisions that could yet have a profound effect on the future direction of the family.

For Charles, the matter is far from concluded. He knows Harry will rely on his Duchy of Cornwall to meet family bills. He has already lavished a small fortune on his younger son, from his wedding to the fitting out of Frogmore cottage – the Windsor house he is now largely going to vacate.

Says a friend: 'He doesn't have unlimited resources. Harry needs to know that.'

This is why more talks are planned, though these are likely to involve officials rather than the family group.

It is hoped that the couple's future funding will act as a brake on their money-making plans. 'There will be strict instructions on branding, for example,' says one figure.

'No one wants to see the Sussex name on a tub of margarine.' This was a deliberate nod to what happened in the aftermath of Diana's death when her memorial fund began endorsing cash-raising schemes that appalled the public.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...een-story.html

So, some interesting details......but still, mostly what I get from all of this is a sense of deep sadness that has pervaded and will continue to pervade this family.
  #2269  
Old 01-13-2020, 08:37 PM
Serene Highness
 
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....I’m not surprised that H&M want to escape the Rota system, since their reporting is amplified a hundredfold when the original biased articles are picked up by other outlets.
  #2270  
Old 01-13-2020, 08:48 PM
Commoner
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Calgary, Canada
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I was going to post a message wondering what lessons the BRF will learn from this, how they will handle the 'onboarding' of future royal brides to ensure they understand what they're getting into...

...then I realized we probably won't see another royal bride until Prince George or Prince Louis marries, which could easily be 25-30 years from now.

Oof.
  #2271  
Old 01-13-2020, 08:49 PM
Commoner
 
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All through this I’m thinking that the people working for the Royal Family have been doing a great job of attempting to get a working solution for the Sussexes in the short time frame they’ve been given! It’s not a task I would like to attempt.
  #2272  
Old 01-13-2020, 08:51 PM
Gentry
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sndral View Post
...I’m not surprised that H&M want to escape the Rota system, since their reporting is amplified a hundredfold when the original biased articles are picked up by other outlets.
What happens when they escape the rota system and this happens with their new system? The press is very different today. Articles are always going to get picked up, changed and put on line with some kind of click bait title.
  #2273  
Old 01-13-2020, 08:55 PM
Eskimo's Avatar
Nobility
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ista View Post
This report is in contrast to the previously reported willingness by Mr. Trudeau to cover the costs of the Sussexes security.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/worl...-a4333461.html
It had to be...

As a Canadian, I follow Canadian media and you should have seen the overwhelming negative reaction to previous article. There were multiple calls for opposition parties to band together and defeat the government in a motion of no confidence (Trudeau leads a minority government). Trudeau might want to do the BRF a solid and pay for Harry and Meghan's security while they stay in Canada on a semi-permanent basis but he is not willing to lose his job over it.
  #2274  
Old 01-13-2020, 08:59 PM
Nobility
 
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Location: Oakland, United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sionevar View Post
I was going to post a message wondering what lessons the BRF will learn from this, how they will handle the 'onboarding' of future royal brides to ensure they understand what they're getting into...

...then I realized we probably won't see another royal bride until Prince George or Prince Louis marries, which could easily be 25-30 years from now.

Oof.
Well since the end of Diana days all married in were dating their royal partner for several years, in fact Harry and Meghan are the outliers to that.
So my guess? This disaster only reinforced in Charles and William mind that any Royal wishing to wed their partner will be allowed to do only after a certain amount of time they have been together, and if that person is not British living in Britain they will be asked to first asked to live in the U.K. so they can adapt to the culture and also allow the royal family time to better get to know them.

Anyway, that’s what I would have put into law inside the family.
  #2275  
Old 01-13-2020, 09:12 PM
Commoner
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evolvingdoors View Post
Well since the end of Diana days all married in were dating their royal partner for several years, in fact Harry and Meghan are the outliers to that.
So my guess? This disaster only reinforced in Charles and William mind that any Royal wishing to wed their partner will be allowed to do only after a certain amount of time they have been together, and if that person is not British living in Britain they will be asked to first asked to live in the U.K. so they can adapt to the culture and also allow the royal family time to better get to know them.

Anyway, that’s what I would have put into law inside the family.
Yes, that would be an eminently sensible approach to take.

Perhaps they should also require a couple to make a choice when they become engaged - go on to become working royals with all that entails, or retire into a completely private life. If they choose the latter, they are left in peace, but no fancy wedding, no peerage, and the royal half of the couple ceases to be HRH.

I would say there should also be some change in how the British people and press treat the BRF, but I fear that's wishful thinking...
  #2276  
Old 01-13-2020, 09:13 PM
Osipi's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightsky View Post
What happens when they escape the rota system and this happens with their new system? The press is very different today. Articles are always going to get picked up, changed and put on line with some kind of click bait title.
Perhaps ditching the royal rota of reporters isn't solely to "eliminate" the negative press and the "click bait" articles but rather is a plan that kind of fits in with their goals and aims towards youth. Instead of the cache of reporters from the rota that would travel with them on tours, cover an engagement and such would be changed to give the notification and coverage to the "up and coming young journalists" as the primary reporters with the information. Its to give them a good start into a major world of journalistic reporting that, IMO, has really lost a lot of credibility. Helping to create a new breed perhaps? Bylines do make a difference as we've noticed here in the thread with Ms. X stating this for the "Y" and Mr. 1 stating that for the "3" etc. I kind of like this idea.

Everybody else will continue to do as they always do and nothing will actually be able to stop them from doing it. This idea just changes who is given the opportunity to get that "scoop" out first.
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  #2277  
Old 01-13-2020, 09:15 PM
Eskimo's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightsky View Post
What happens when they escape the rota system and this happens with their new system? The press is very different today. Articles are always going to get picked up, changed and put on line with some kind of click bait title.
Again, IMO, they don't care. It is their (mostly her) desire to become international jet set philanthropists. They (or at least she) knows that there will be a decent amount of negative press generated (even Greta Thurnberg is hated by a section of the media).

If she wades into controversial issues (as she did when she edited that magazine) there will be a s##t-ton of negative press from people with the opposite view. This, in addition, to the "money-making" ventures will cause a significant backlash against the BRF.
  #2278  
Old 01-13-2020, 09:16 PM
Serene Highness
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evolvingdoors View Post
Well since the end of Diana days all married in were dating their royal partner for several years, in fact Harry and Meghan are the outliers to that.
So my guess? This disaster only reinforced in Charles and William mind that any Royal wishing to wed their partner will be allowed to do only after a certain amount of time they have been together, and if that person is not British living in Britain they will be asked to first asked to live in the U.K. so they can adapt to the culture and also allow the royal family time to better get to know them.

Anyway, that’s what I would have put into law inside the family.
I'm not really sure that living together for a longer period have prevented this situation. Harry obviously loves Meghan more than he loves being a full-time royal (which I don't think he was overly wild about anyway. If they had lived together for a while, they may have realized that Meghan didn't want to live a royal life, but they would be in the same place.
  #2279  
Old 01-13-2020, 09:22 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sionevar View Post
Yes, that would be an eminently sensible approach to take.

Perhaps they should also require a couple to make a choice when they become engaged - go on to become working royals with all that entails, or retire into a completely private life. If they choose the latter, they are left in peace, but no fancy wedding, no peerage, and the royal half of the couple ceases to be HRH.

I would say there should also be some change in how the British people and press treat the BRF, but I fear that's wishful thinking...
Yes, however I disagree about stripping the royal of his/hers HRH. Seems unfair. However a rule can be made about wrongfully using the title for personal benefit even when not being a working royal, not following the rule will result in stripping.
  #2280  
Old 01-13-2020, 09:30 PM
Courtier
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
HMQ came to the Throne when she was just 25 [younger than Harry], she too had a foreign spouse, from a 'broken home' [at a time when Britain was considerably more unfriendly to foreigners than it is today]. He faced massive hostility [albeit without the rampant press], but from an 'establishment' and Court [who he lived amongst] that resented and resisted every 'modernising' move he made.
Did he 'flounce out', resent his in-laws and adopted family, encourage his wife to 'throw in the towel' for 'a better life' ?

NO, he [currently in the closing years [possibly months] of his existence, devoted himself to his adopted country, serving it selflessly ALL his long life.

No wonder the Sussexes DARE not look him in the face.
Spot on. And frankly, Harry's military background somehow makes this even worse.
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