Death of Queen Elizabeth II - Lying-in-State, Edinburgh and London

[Somebody]

They have already said it will just be the grandchildren tomorrow not even the spouses will be there.

Did they specify that about attendance or about standing vigil. The latter makes much more sense.

 

[Erin9]

This makes me sad. The POW and POW had function today, perhaps that is why they weren't there. But why weren't Duke and Duchess of Sussex.

It does seem odd/sad that neither of the families of the King were there. Maybe the Wales function was a reason, but not sure about the Sussexes.

 

[Mbruno]

I thought it was important to note that the vigil tomorrow is likely the last time the grandchildren will all do something on an equal footing. Their relatively similar ranking as grandchildren of the monarch has passed and we shall see what lies ahead under Charles' reign.

If the rules of precedence are kept the same, William and Harry have obviously moved up (from grandchidren to children of the monarch, with William being additionally the heir apparent to the Crown). The precedence that was accorded to the other grandchildren of the Queen is now extended to King Charles' grandchildren. Meanwhile, Beatrice, Eugenie, James, Louise, Peter and Zara now have the precedence only of nieces/nephews of the King, below their respective parents (as siblings of the King) and, of course, below the sons and grandchildren of the King, who outrank all of the former.

It is important to note that precedence is not based on the order of succession, but rather on degree of kinship to the current monarch. So, Princess Anne for example still has higher precedence than Beatrice, Eugenie, or Louise, although the latter are higher than Anne in the order of succession. The proximity to the Crown (in the line of succession) affects precedence only in the same degree of kinship.

 

[sophie25]

It does seem odd/sad that neither of the families of the King were there. Maybe the Wales function was a reason, but not sure about the Sussexes.

I agree that it was both odd/sad. It's done now and neither of Charles' sons or grandchildren were there to see him take part in it.

 

[FigTree]

Love to see the four great grandchildren there and the rest of the family. I think that is a hint that at least the oldest will be involved in the funeral and I presume will turn up tomorrow as well. We may see the three Wes tool.

The Wales absence was because of work? And the Sussexes? Well unless Harry has a roll to play they don't go to this things. I think we have seen that. Which is fine.

 

[FigTree]

I thought it was important to note that the vigil tomorrow is likely the last time the grandchildren will all do something on an equal footing. Their relatively similar ranking as grandchildren of the monarch has passed and we shall see what lies ahead under Charles' reign.

Depending how close Charles is to them and keeps up family meets it may be one of the last times we see much of them. Which is sad to think of really.

 

[RoyalHighness 2002]

Depending how close Charles is to them and keeps up family meets it may be one of the last times we see much of them. Which is sad to think of really.

Exactly, I think this is more of what I meant. Especially for Beatrice and Eugenie, who were afforded a semi elevated status in the past imo, Charles may see fit to totally phase them out. It's just nice to see them all as "the grandchildren".

 

[Erin9]

Depending how close Charles is to them and keeps up family meets it may be one of the last times we see much of them. Which is sad to think of really.

That is sad to think about.

 

[Meee]

Yeah

I expect we’ll hear/see more of Zara (given her equestrianism) and Louise/James until they marry (parents still working royals) than the other three. Zara seems the closest to William too, when his reign comes. The Yorks seem closer to Harry, so will fall on that side of any rift that continues. Louise and James when older will probably be isolated Royal wise, as they’re closer in age to their cousins once removed than their cousins.

I don’t expect Charles to be big on wider family gatherings. It must hurt that he’s unlikely to have all his grandchildren gathering like his mother did, but we might see more of Camilla’s family. I think her generation were better at convening family meets.

 

[FigTree]

Yeah

I expect we’ll hear/see more of Zara (given her equestrianism) and Louise/James until they marry (parents still working royals) than the other three. Zara seems the closest to William too, when his reign comes. The Yorks seem closer to Harry, so will fall on that side of any rift that continues. Louise and James when older will probably be isolated Royal wise, as they’re closer in age to their cousins once removed than their cousins.

I don’t expect Charles to be big on wider family gatherings. It must hurt that he’s unlikely to have all his grandchildren gathering like his mother did, but we might see more of Camilla’s family. I think her generation were better at convening family meets.

Harry isn’t close to Beatrice…there has never been much evidence. And Eugenie is one of those who is close to everyone. It depends how much the media take am interest in them.

And in the future William may be reliant on his cousins for support (not I’m saying as in public roles but as familial support) because he won’t really have anyone close given Harry is in America and we have no idea what the future holds for their relationship. All the cousins were raised to be very close.

As for her generation being better at family meets I don’t think that’s true. She was the matriarch and for the longest time the one keeping them together as a family. Now either someone steps up to the breach or they begin to fall apart. Happens In all families.

 

[Sun Lion]

A man attempted to rush Her Majesty’s coffin last night and was arrested by the police who were present.

It was around 10.00pm, so the members of the Royal Family were not there.

The armed officers tackled the man to the floor after he pushed through other people in the queue, lifted the Standard and put his hands on the oak coffin.

 

[FigTree]

They have already said it will just be the grandchildren tomorrow not even the spouses will be there.

Thst is just odd. Given Peter and Zara seem to have brought their children to London where I presume they will stay until Monday…although it isn’t far home for them but why bring the children for 15 minutes, why wouldn’t they be able to have the family there. Seems a bit cruel.

Why Kate and William weren’t there tonight too was odd. They were just in Surrey.

 

[sophie25]

Thst is just odd. Given Peter and Zara seem to have brought their children to London where I presume they will stay until Monday…although it isn’t far home for them but why bring the children for 15 minutes, why wouldn’t they be able to have the family there. Seems a bit cruel.

Why Kate and William weren’t there tonight too was odd. They were just in Surrey.

I agree. Even if George and Charlotte turn up tomorrow to see the grandchildren pay their respects I think the 'Vigil of the Princes' (pardon me Ann) was the main event for Her Majesty at Westminster Hall and they missed it. Why I don't know.

 

[Fem]

Thst is just odd. Given Peter and Zara seem to have brought their children to London where I presume they will stay until Monday…although it isn’t far home for them but why bring the children for 15 minutes, why wouldn’t they be able to have the family there. Seems a bit cruel.

Why Kate and William weren’t there tonight too was odd. They were just in Surrey.

I think it's just a misunderstanding. The vigil in itself, so standing around the coffin, will be done by grandchildren only, without spouses or children.

That said, during today's vigil we saw many members of TRF observing it and nothing suggest we won't get the exact same thing tomorrow.

 

[tihkon2]

I think it's just a misunderstanding. The vigil in itself, so standing around the coffin, will be done by grandchildren only, without spouses or children.

That said, during today's vigil we saw many members of TRF observing it and nothing suggest we won't get the exact same thing tomorrow.

Exactly. This is how i read it as well.

 

[Iluvbertie]

The CC listed the following as also attending the vigil besides the Queen's four children and their spouses:

Princess Beatrice, Mrs Edoardo Mapelli Mozzi and Mr Edoardo Mapelli Mozzi and Princess Eugenie, Mrs Jack Brooksbank and Mr Jack Brooksbank, The Lady Louise Mountbatten-Windsor and Viscount Severn, Mr Peter Phillips, Mr and Mrs Michael Tindall, The Duke and Duchess of Gloucester, The Duke of Kent, Prince and Princess Michael of Kent, Princess Alexandra, the Hon Lady Ogilvy, The Earl of Snowdon, Mr. Daniel and the Lady Sarah Chatto and other Members of the Royal Family were present.

Often in the past the CC wouldn't record all of these people as being present at such an event.

Going back to 1952 the CC records THREE members of the royal family, by name, as attending the King's funeral - The Queen, The Queen Mother and The Princess Margaret. Everyone else - even Queen Mary - was lumped into 'other members of the royal family.

The Funeral of His late Majesty King George the Sixth took place to-day at St. George's Chapel, Windsor.

The Queen, Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother, The Princess Margaret and other Members of the Royal Family, together with the Sovereigns, Heads of States and Foreign Representatives, were present.

 

[Bede]

Royals viewing lying in state

I see the King of Tonga there earlier today, many former royals also have been from former reigning such as Austria, Yugoslavia, and many former German states. If only there was a special camera for the VIP box, I did enjoy the sweep of the camera yesterday to give us a good look at the Family at last night vigil.

 

[yukari]

Maybe this is why the Waleses weren't at the vigil.

King Charles III sends greetings to New Zealanders

(...)

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has met with the Prince and Princess of Wales, and offered the deep condolences of New Zealand.

She said speaking with Prince William and Princess Catherine was a chance to acknowledge that while Aotearoa had lost a Queen, they had lost a grandmother.

(...)

On a lighter note, "Princess Catherine" from a NZ outlet. Let's see if any Australian or Canadian outlet will follow ...

 

[Meee]

The CC listed the following as also attending the vigil besides the Queen's four children and their spouses:

Princess Beatrice, Mrs Edoardo Mapelli Mozzi and Mr Edoardo Mapelli Mozzi and Princess Eugenie, Mrs Jack Brooksbank and Mr Jack Brooksbank, The Lady Louise Mountbatten-Windsor and Viscount Severn, Mr Peter Phillips, Mr and Mrs Michael Tindall, The Duke and Duchess of Gloucester, The Duke of Kent, Prince and Princess Michael of Kent, Princess Alexandra, the Hon Lady Ogilvy, The Earl of Snowdon, Mr. Daniel and the Lady Sarah Chatto and other Members of the Royal Family were present.

Often in the past the CC wouldn't record all of these people as being present at such an event.

Going back to 1952 the CC records THREE members of the royal family, by name, as attending the King's funeral - The Queen, The Queen Mother and The Princess Margaret. Everyone else - even Queen Mary - was lumped into 'other members of the royal family.

The Funeral of His late Majesty King George the Sixth took place to-day at St. George's Chapel, Windsor.

The Queen, Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother, The Princess Margaret and other Members of the Royal Family, together with the Sovereigns, Heads of States and Foreign Representatives, were present.

I can see the logic for the CC only reporting by name the consort and descendants of the late Monarch - you can argue that’s what they did with George VI. It was only limited to three because he only had two children, and his grandchildren were very small and likely absent.

Queen Mary being lumped in with everyone else is a shocker - you could say that the reporting of Princess Margaret’s children by name now was in her place, because there’s been a departure from the natural order with an elder sibling outliving a younger one.

I expect this was very much a ‘it’s (almost) the last time’ and that the other titled members were listed out of respect for their years of service.

Going forward I expect we’ll see something between the two, including the sovereign’s siblings but not their siblings’ descendants.

Having watched the coverage twice, Zara’s daughters and Isla Philips looked younger than I remembered them at the Jubilee, and I missed Princess Alexandra both times. I agree it’s doubtful we’ll see Lena at the funeral. Likely it’ll be the same great grandchildren as were present at Philip’s thanksgiving service.

 

[Stefan]

I can see the logic for the CC only reporting by name the consort and descendants of the late Monarch - you can argue that’s what they did with George VI. It was only limited to three because he only had two children, and his grandchildren were very small and likely absent.

Queen Mary being lumped in with everyone else is a shocker - you could say that the reporting of Princess Margaret’s children by name now was in her place, because there’s been a departure from the natural order with an elder sibling outliving a younger one.

But Queen Mary did not attend the funeral itself. As far as i remebershe was only present when the King's coffin arrived at Westmisnter Hall but on the fuenral Day she watched from a Window at marlborough House.

 

[Iluvbertie]

The London Gazette says that Queen Mary did attend along with the following we would expect to have been listed in the CC today.

Philip - The Duke of Edinburgh (son-in-law and consort of the new monarch)
Henry - The Duke of Gloucester (brother of the late king)
David - The Duke of Windsor (brother of the late king)
Edward - The Duke of Kent (nephew of the late king)
Mary - The Princess Royal (sister of the late king)
Marina - The Duchess of Kent - (sister-in-law of the late king)

and many others

 

[SirGyamfi1]

I see the King of Tonga there earlier today, many former royals also have been from former reigning such as Austria, Yugoslavia, and many former German states. If only there was a special camera for the VIP box, I did enjoy the sweep of the camera yesterday to give us a good look at the Family at last night vigil.

Are there any pictures?

 

[LadyFinn]

King Charles and The Prince of Wales Greet Crowds Queuing for Lying-in-State

 

[lucien]

The CC listed the following as also attending the vigil besides the Queen's four children and their spouses:

Princess Beatrice, Mrs Edoardo Mapelli Mozzi and Mr Edoardo Mapelli Mozzi and Princess Eugenie, Mrs Jack Brooksbank and Mr Jack Brooksbank, The Lady Louise Mountbatten-Windsor and Viscount Severn, Mr Peter Phillips, Mr and Mrs Michael Tindall, The Duke and Duchess of Gloucester, The Duke of Kent, Prince and Princess Michael of Kent, Princess Alexandra, the Hon Lady Ogilvy, The Earl of Snowdon, Mr. Daniel and the Lady Sarah Chatto and other Members of the Royal Family were present.

Often in the past the CC wouldn't record all of these people as being present at such an event. [/B]

I watched them all ast night,and thought it moving,you forgot to mention HM Queen Camilla,she was there too.

 

[W.Y.CII]

I watched them all ast night,and thought it moving,you forgot to mention HM Queen Camilla,she was there too.

Iluvbertie had mentioned that in the reply you quoted already. Also that's directly quoted from CC and Camilla (and other spouses) was mentioned in other paragraph of the article as well.

 

[Skippy]

The Grandchildren's Vigil will be at 17:45 BST, 18:45 CET:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/schedules/p00fzl6n/2022/09/17

 

[lucien]

Iluvbertie had mentioned that in the reply you quoted already. Also that's directly quoted from CC and Camilla (and other spouses) was mentioned in other paragraph of the article as well.

Ah..yes...probably in the "other Members of the Royal Family were present " phrase..Ofcourse.I should have noticed.

 

[ElisaR]

A bit of footage of last night incident. It's very confused, but I think this is all we have. It cannot be seen in the official live streaming video: they showed the outside of Westminster Palace for a few minutes, but that happened before the incident, meaning that the live isn't really live, but there's a certain amount of delay. This is interesting, as on the first night a guard fainted and that was on the live stream (they indeed changed to an outside view, but only a few moments later). I wonder if they decided to delay the broadcast only after that.

 

[camelot23ca]

A man attempted to rush Her Majesty’s coffin last night and was arrested by the police who were present.

It was around 10.00pm, so the members of the Royal Family were not there.

The armed officers tackled the man to the floor after he pushed through other people in the queue, lifted the Standard and put his hands on the oak coffin.

I saw footage of the incident and the police deserve a lot of credit for how quickly they reacted and got him out of there, with no noise or fuss. Ten seconds later it was like it never happened. When I watched the King and his siblings at the vigil I was surprised by how close they let the crowd of people get, with what seemed to be a minimal police presence. Clearly I was wrong about the minimal part!

 

[ElisaR]

I wonder at which time the grandchildren will stand vigil. The news simply say "this evening".