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  #1101  
Old 07-15-2017, 08:42 AM
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Numbers ticking up

When the couple married in 2005 only 7% surveyed said that Camilla should become Queen when her husband accedes to the throne.

Today that figure stands at 39%.

But the Mirror poll of 2,000 people found that 40% still do not want her to be called Queen.

Read more: Queen Camilla? Survey finds more people are warming to the idea - ITV News
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  #1102  
Old 07-15-2017, 09:48 AM
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61 % votes for Diana as the Queen? It looks strange.
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  #1103  
Old 07-15-2017, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
Numbers ticking up

When the couple married in 2005 only 7% surveyed said that Camilla should become Queen when her husband accedes to the throne.

Today that figure stands at 39%.

But the Mirror poll of 2,000 people found that 40% still do not want her to be called Queen.

Read more: Queen Camilla? Survey finds more people are warming to the idea - ITV News
Like frogs, the subjects are slowly boiled to accept Camilla,The Duchess of Cornwall, as a Queen.
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  #1104  
Old 07-15-2017, 10:06 AM
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The fact is that when Charles becomes King, Camilla instantly becomes Queen. The public can have an opinion on it but at the end of the day, their opinion really doesn't matter. What does matter is that the more the people get to know her, the more they realize that she's a warm hearted, down to earth person that makes Charles very happy.

Camilla hasn't put a foot wrong since joining the BRF in 2005 and is a true asset to the "Firm".
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  #1105  
Old 07-15-2017, 10:20 AM
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Camilla and The Public

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
The fact is that when Charles becomes King, Camilla instantly becomes Queen. The public can have an opinion on it but at the end of the day, their opinion really doesn't matter. What does matter is that the more the people get to know her, the more they realize that she's a warm hearted, down to earth person that makes Charles very happy.



Camilla hasn't put a foot wrong since joining the BRF in 2005 and is a true asset to the "Firm".


Yes, you are right that Camilla automatically becomes Queen when Charles becomes King. But would it not be a possibility that, although she is Queen, she will called Princess Consort? This is already the case with her title Princess of Wales. Although she technically is Princess of Wales, she is called Duchess of Cornwall.
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  #1106  
Old 07-15-2017, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Hendrik-Jan77 View Post
Yes, you are right that Camilla automatically becomes Queen when Charles becomes King. But would it not be a possibility that, although she is Queen, she will called Princess Consort? This is already the case with her title Princess of Wales. Although she technically is Princess of Wales, she is called Duchess of Cornwall.
There is an entire thread devoted to discussing this issue (somewhere in the recesses of the archives). One stickler would be that when Camilla chose to be styled as the Duchess of Cornwall, she had that option because Charles is the Duke of Cornwall. With Charles being King, there is no title that Charles would have that Camilla could use the feminine version of "Princess". The feminine version of Charles' "king" would be "queen".
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  #1107  
Old 07-15-2017, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
The fact is that when Charles becomes King, Camilla instantly becomes Queen. The public can have an opinion on it but at the end of the day, their opinion really doesn't matter. What does matter is that the more the people get to know her, the more they realize that she's a warm hearted, down to earth person that makes Charles very happy.

Camilla hasn't put a foot wrong since joining the BRF in 2005 and is a true asset to the "Firm".
This topic has been discussed over and over again. Even if she "automatically becomes queen", it doesn't mean that the Court will call her "queen", just as Louise and James are not referred to as princess/prince, even though legally they are.

I doubt Charles will go back on the promise he himself made of making Camilla only "the Princess Consort" when 40 % of the public still don't want her to be called queen and 20 %, I suppose, don't know.
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  #1108  
Old 07-15-2017, 11:04 AM
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Camilla will be Queen. It will be her proper title. The media can call her what ever they want, she will still be Queen. The media still calls Catherine "Kate Middelton" for heaven sake, which is a disgrace. In my mind, it is just the media's way of trying to belittle people when they purposely don't correctly give proper titles when mentioning a person.
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  #1109  
Old 07-15-2017, 11:21 AM
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There is a difference between what the public and media calls someone and the official name/title of a person however.

Sure people still call Kate - Kate Middleton (which technically is still a possible legal name as it was her birth/maiden name) - but officially she is called HRH The Duchess of Cambridge.

With Camilla being called Queen/Princess Consort we are talking about the official title she will hold.

Mr Blair made it clear in 2005, when asked, that she would be Queen and that legislation would be needed to remove that title. The reason being that to call her anything less than Queen would be to declare the marriage morganatic and that opens an entire new set of problems.

The situation with Camilla using Duchess of Cornwall isn't the same as Louise and James not using Prince or Princess as the Queen's Will was made known that they wouldn't be a Prince or Princess (I wrote to BP and they confirmed that they are not and never will be a Prince or Princess). I assume because at some time in the future the intention is to issue LPs to declare that only the children of the heir apparent will be HRHs and with the current LPs already saying Charlotte's children won't be HRH there is a ready made time to do that assuming Harry does what I expect him to do and follow Edward's precedent and have his children styled as the children of a Duke (assuming he gains such a peerage on his marriage and assuming he has children anyway).
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  #1110  
Old 07-15-2017, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
... [snipped]I doubt Charles will go back on the promise he himself made of making Camilla only "the Princess Consort" when 40 % of the public still don't want her to be called queen and 20 %, I suppose, don't know.
Promises of the British and Anglo-Saxon elites mean nothing. They tend to easily go back on their promises citing obscure legalities. I do not expect Prince Charles to be an exception to this tradition.
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  #1111  
Old 07-15-2017, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post
Promises of the British and Anglo-Saxon elites mean nothing. They tend to easily go back on their promises citing obscure legalities. I do not expect Prince Charles to be an exception to this tradition.
One thing you may not be aware of is that when it comes to certain things that affect the monarchy, it isn't solely up to Charles and the "obscure" legalities you claim they tend to cite but have to not only adhere to previous letters patent that have been issued declaring how things should be but also, under a constitutional monarchy, pass muster with the government of the day.

The British monarchy is not run by autocrats as you seem to imply.
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  #1112  
Old 07-15-2017, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post
Promises of the British and Anglo-Saxon elites mean nothing. They tend to easily go back on their promises citing obscure legalities. I do not expect Prince Charles to be an exception to this tradition.
that's a nice big generaliseation.
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  #1113  
Old 07-15-2017, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
One thing you may not be aware of is that when it comes to certain things that affect the monarchy, it isn't solely up to Charles and the "obscure" legalities you claim they tend to cite but have to not only adhere to previous letters patent that have been issued declaring how things should be but also, under a constitutional monarchy, pass muster with the government of the day.

The British monarchy is not run by autocrats as you seem to imply.
One can believe in what he/she pleases. If the Clarence House decides to go back on the promise in question, necessary documents will "pass muster with the government of the day".

The British monarchy, like USA, is run by local financiers and industrialists that fund democracy.
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  #1114  
Old 07-15-2017, 05:38 PM
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Actually there never was a promise. At the time of the marriage it was stated that "it is the intention... " about the Princess Consort title.

Personally, I think Camilla will be Queen. Both Charles and Camilla have been asked about that and they've never given any kind of answer except that "we'll have to see". Camilla has been warmly accepted into the BRF, has supported her husband and the "Firm" brilliantly and has been awarded Grand Dame Cross of the Royal Victorian Order which is recognition for personal service to the Queen. She also has recently has been appointed by HM to the Privy Council. Interesting fact is that Camilla is the first British princess by marriage to be appointed to that position.

She has all the earmarks of a Queen Consort in my book.
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  #1115  
Old 07-15-2017, 05:40 PM
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well its not a big deal is it? It will have to pass muster with the Govt but I can't see why they should not agree that Camilla will be titled Queen. its not on the lines of changing the succession, which would involve major legislation. If Charles had said that he wanted to do that, he would have to go to the Govt and legislation would have to be passed and the odds are that the Govt would NOT be agreeable to such a thing. but for his wife to have the same title as any woman who marries a husband, ie to use her husband's rank, is hardly controversial.

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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Actually there never was a promise. At the time of the marriage it was stated that "it is the intention... " about the Princess Consort title.

She has all the earmarks of a Queen Consort in my book.
Yes obviously they would have preferred it if Camilla's title could have been settled as "she will be queen" at the time of the marriage.
But they were a bit unsure how it would work out with the public and they had to cover all their bases so they made a vague "intention" for the future, not a promise and they stated that she'd be known as Duchess of Cornwall, not Princess of W in deference to Diana. which IMO was an acceptable compromise.
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  #1116  
Old 07-15-2017, 06:28 PM
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I'm just surprised that after all this time there's a plurality to Camilla (39% for Queen; 40% no Queen; and 21% "undecided".) I thought that was the purpose of the image rehab - to make her more palpable to the public, so the pro-Queen numbers should be higher. The fact that over a third of the people polled think Camilla got her royal status dirty (the reason for the no vote) shows the future Charles III has a PR problem for the monarchy when he ascends. It doesn't matter if Camilla can legally be called Her Majesty the Queen Consort (is that correct?) and take the title, a decades-long negative perception of her still looms. Penny Junor's book about Camilla didn't help matters. Monarchies survive by their popularity with the people.
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  #1117  
Old 07-15-2017, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
I'm just surprised that after all this time there's a plurality to Camilla (39% for Queen; 40% no Queen; and 21% "undecided".) I thought that was the purpose of the image rehab - to make her more palpable to the public, so the pro-Queen numbers should be higher. The fact that over a third of the people polled think Camilla got her royal status dirty (the reason for the no vote) shows the future Charles III has a PR problem for the monarchy when he ascends. It doesn't matter if Camilla can legally be called Her Majesty the Queen Consort (is that correct?) and take the title, a decades-long negative perception of her still looms. Penny Junor's book about Camilla didn't help matters. Monarchies survive by their popularity with the people.
I disagree. Given that a dozen years ago when Charles & Camilla married, only 7% of the public thought she should be titled "Queen", it is remarkable that this figure has increased by 32%. Who is to say that in another dozen years, that number won't have increased further? I don't think it will be another dozen years before Charles ascends to the throne, probably more likely six to ten, and I expect that by then the number who think Camilla should be called "Queen" will have risen to at least 50% of those polled. The more time that passes between Diana's death, Charles & Camilla's marriage, and QE II's death, the greater the support that will exist for calling Camilla "HM Queen Camilla."
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  #1118  
Old 07-15-2017, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
I'm just surprised that after all this time there's a plurality to Camilla (39% for Queen; 40% no Queen; and 21% "undecided".) I thought that was the purpose of the image rehab - to make her more palpable to the public, so the pro-Queen numbers should be higher. The fact that over a third of the people polled think Camilla got her royal status dirty (the reason for the no vote) shows the future Charles III has a PR problem for the monarchy when he ascends. It doesn't matter if Camilla can legally be called Her Majesty the Queen Consort (is that correct?) and take the title, a decades-long negative perception of her still looms. Penny Junor's book about Camilla didn't help matters. Monarchies survive by their popularity with the people.


Proper Form of Address: It's just HM The Queen. Charles would be HM The King.

Clarence House didn't need to make that Princess Consort statement when they got married. They could have just deflected the question.
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  #1119  
Old 07-15-2017, 09:27 PM
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I disagree. Given that a dozen years ago when Charles & Camilla married, only 7% of the public thought she should be titled "Queen", it is remarkable that this figure has increased by 32%. Who is to say that in another dozen years, that number won't have increased further? I don't think it will be another dozen years before Charles ascends to the throne, probably more likely six to ten, and I expect that by then the number who think Camilla should be called "Queen" will have risen to at least 50% of those polled. The more time that passes between Diana's death, Charles & Camilla's marriage, and QE II's death, the greater the support that will exist for calling Camilla "HM Queen Camilla."
Well, Diana has been dead for twenty years and now, in 2017, 61% of people would still prefer her to have been Queen when the time comes. There are about 20% 'don't knows' in that survey. How do we know that all 20% are going to fall Camilla's way in any future surveys of this kind? In the run-up to elections pollsters sometimes roughly estimate a half-half split each way among 'don't knows'.

Plus, even if, in six years time, the figures showing people wanting her to be Queen do go to 50% to 45% say, that would still show a deep and unprecedented divide, one that Queen Alexandra, Queen Mary and Elizabeth the QM would never have received. The truth is that the idea of a Queen Camilla is still a divisive one among the British people.
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  #1120  
Old 07-15-2017, 09:54 PM
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Maybe Queen Camilla continues to be a divisive idea because surveys keep on asking if they prefer her to a woman who's been dead for 20 years...
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