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  #641  
Old 06-18-2017, 03:16 PM
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The State Opening isn't going anywhere.
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  #642  
Old 06-18-2017, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by vkrish View Post
I guess it's over. Those days.. That pageantry.. and all.. Suddenly in 2019 it may seem a totally unnecessary extravaganza in "tough times".. Let alone how the Queen will be..
I really pray it doesn't happen, but..
I agree. The opportunity seems too good to somewhat scale down the pagentry next time, Swedish style.
Wait and see.
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  #643  
Old 06-18-2017, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Nico View Post
I agree. The opportunity seems too good to somewhat scale down the pagentry next time, Swedish style.
Wait and see.


I really hope this isn't the case. My only worry is a 93 year old Queen and the weight of the crown/state robes and regalia.
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  #644  
Old 06-18-2017, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by RoyalProtocol View Post
I really hope this isn't the case. My only worry is a 93 year old Queen and the weight of the crown/state robes and regalia.
I think she'll start just wearing her State Diadem at future State Openings due to the weight of the Imperial State Crown.
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  #645  
Old 06-18-2017, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
I think she'll start just wearing her State Diadem at future State Openings due to the weight of the Imperial State Crown.


Yes I imagine this may be the case with the Crown carried before her on a cushion. It will be interesting to see if the Crown make an appearance on Wednesday on a cushion.
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  #646  
Old 06-18-2017, 05:29 PM
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Wasn't the reason to suspend next years speech because the government will have no plans apart from the mammoth task of deciding what EU regulations and directives to take over and which ones to drop? I am sure there will be a speech from 2019 onwards, people are proud of their traditions in Britain fortunately. Is there anybody demanding the tradition to be downscaled? Apart from the crown and pageantry, wouldn't we miss the hackling of MP Dennis Skinner? . I doubt a major change will happen under the present monarch. Good that the government already announces it now already.
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  #647  
Old 06-18-2017, 05:41 PM
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State Opening of Parliament 2002-2017

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Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
Wasn't the reason to suspend next years speech because the government will have no plans apart from the mammoth task of deciding what EU regulations and directives to take over and which ones to drop? I am sure there will be a speech from 2019 onwards, people are proud of their traditions in Britain fortunately. Is there anybody demanding the tradition to be downscaled? Apart from the crown and pageantry, wouldn't we miss the hackling of MP Dennis Skinner? . I doubt a major change will happen under the present monarch. Good that the government already announces it now already.


Oh definitely I think the Government have a completely valid reason not to hold a State Opening next year and they have done the right thing to tell us now.

Ceremonial is part of the rich fabric which runs though out nations history. We may see it scaled back in years to come, during future reigns.

But I do think we will see continuing small concessions as Her Majesty progresses through her 10th decade. (We've already seen her use the lift instead of the stairs at Parliament and changes at Trooping the Colour to involve less climbing in and out of the carriage).
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  #648  
Old 06-18-2017, 05:50 PM
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I suspect that is how traditions work. 'Change with time to remain the same', as was the motto of the Uzeda family in I Vicerè.
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  #649  
Old 06-18-2017, 06:31 PM
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Remember that most of these 'traditions' in their current form have only been around for about a century.

There was a State Opening of Parliament under Victoria but the pageantry we associate with it were introduced by Edward VII who believed that the people wanted that after 40 years of virtually no pageantry at all but these days I don't think the public want to see so much - the comments about holding Trooping and everyone smiling so close to the Grenfell fire are quite scathing. I put up a post on the DM supporting it and have received over 75% red arrows. I know many people ignore the comments but I do believe that there are times when they are reflective of public opinion (not only British but the world's).

I was also surprised at how small the crowd was. The pictures showing the crowd while the family were on the balcony was about half the size of last years - where the back people were was closer than I could get last year and it was packed all around me. I spoke to one person as I was leaving and they were way further back than I was as they were at the entrance to Horseguards and moved onto the Mall from there and the balcony to them was barely visible. Sure last year was the Queen's 90th birthday parade but the crowd looks to have been about half of last year's

I doubt that the Queen will bring back the full pageantry for the State Opening. The level of pomp for this year will be enough I think as that is more what was done during Victoria's day (although she didn't do it) and that was at the height of the empire - an organisation that no longer exists of course.
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  #650  
Old 06-19-2017, 01:21 AM
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I would be surprised if HM changed next year's opening in any drastic way. Parliament still has to open, even if they are still on this year's agenda. Perhaps the speech will give an update. As we have already seen, the drop in attendance at this year's Trooping reflects a London in grief, gloom and even anger. I should imagine the terrorist attacks have daunted many tourists from both home and abroad this year unless something drastic happens, spirits will rebound next year.

Unlike the Trooping of the Colour, it is far easier to cut back on the State Opening of Parliament. And while the election rather than disasters has been the reason for the cutback, that will not be true of next year.

Those events that involve the UK's legendary pageantry such as the Trooping and State Opening, bring in millions of tourists, and with them millions of pounds. That is just the cold hard facts and probably the reason why the State Opening hasn't been "economised" ever again. It is the ultimate own goal.
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  #651  
Old 06-19-2017, 01:25 AM
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Originally Posted by MARG View Post
I would be surprised if HM changed next year's opening in any drastic way. Parliament still has to open, even if they are still on this year's agenda.
Constitutionally, the only opening that is necessary is the one after the election. There is no legal requirement that Parliament be prorogued annually, and next year wouldn't be the first time that they went without one as there was none in 2011 either.
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  #652  
Old 06-19-2017, 01:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Remember that most of these 'traditions' in their current form have only been around for about a century.

There was a State Opening of Parliament under Victoria but the pageantry we associate with it were introduced by Edward VII who believed that the people wanted that after 40 years of virtually no pageantry at all but these days I don't think the public want to see so much - the comments about holding Trooping and everyone smiling so close to the Grenfell fire are quite scathing. I put up a post on the DM supporting it and have received over 75% red arrows. I know many people ignore the comments but I do believe that there are times when they are reflective of public opinion (not only British but the world's).

I was also surprised at how small the crowd was. The pictures showing the crowd while the family were on the balcony was about half the size of last years - where the back people were was closer than I could get last year and it was packed all around me. I spoke to one person as I was leaving and they were way further back than I was as they were at the entrance to Horseguards and moved onto the Mall from there and the balcony to them was barely visible. Sure last year was the Queen's 90th birthday parade but the crowd looks to have been about half of last year's

I doubt that the Queen will bring back the full pageantry for the State Opening. The level of pomp for this year will be enough I think as that is more what was done during Victoria's day (although she didn't do it) and that was at the height of the empire - an organisation that no longer exists of course.
As I've said to you before, don't take the DF trolls so seriously. They are a bunch of racist, sexist, homophobic, ignorant, sick, spiteful bullies who hates everyone. And they represents a very tiny minority of the UK public, and many of them are from other countries.

When it comes to the trooping crowds (who actually vere quite big for a non-milestone birthday parade, despite terror fear), I think I'm explaining it well in this post were I posted pictures of the crowds: Trooping the Colour 2003-2017

State Opening of Parliament: I'm pretty sure that it will be business as usual in 2019.

Pomp and Pageantry such as Jubilees, Weddings, milestone birthdays, the State Opening, the Trooping and State visits is what makes Britain great, and if you ask most UK people (not the DF trolls) then I think the vast majority will say that they want it to continue.
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  #653  
Old 06-19-2017, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARG View Post
I would be surprised if HM changed next year's opening in any drastic way. Parliament still has to open, even if they are still on this year's agenda. Perhaps the speech will give an update. As we have already seen, the drop in attendance at this year's Trooping reflects a London in grief, gloom and even anger. I should imagine the terrorist attacks have daunted many tourists from both home and abroad this year unless something drastic happens, spirits will rebound next year.

Unlike the Trooping of the Colour, it is far easier to cut back on the State Opening of Parliament. And while the election rather than disasters has been the reason for the cutback, that will not be true of next year.

Those events that involve the UK's legendary pageantry such as the Trooping and State Opening, bring in millions of tourists, and with them millions of pounds. That is just the cold hard facts and probably the reason why the State Opening hasn't been "economised" ever again. It is the ultimate own goal.
To be fair, there were never "millions of tourists" at the State Opening of Parliament. I have seen plenty of State Openings with only a handful of people watching the scenes. The Trooping, an absolute spectacle on an often shiny day, never did attract "millions of tourists". I have never heard that fact. At best a good, full Wembley Stadium was lining the streets is my assumption and that is around 80.000 people, still an enormous mass but far away from the "millions of tourists". People come to London all year round. Trooping or no Trooping, State Opening or no State Opening.

The plummeted Pound has more attraction than any royal ceremony, is my assessment.
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  #654  
Old 06-19-2017, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by wbenson View Post
Constitutionally, the only opening that is necessary is the one after the election. There is no legal requirement that Parliament be prorogued annually, and next year wouldn't be the first time that they went without one as there was none in 2011 either.
Great post. Explains it clearly and succinctly
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  #655  
Old 06-20-2017, 03:27 AM
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I was thinking about the logic amount of public watching the Trooping in real life. From Buckingham Palace to Horse Guards' Parade is roughly half a mile. The Mall is kept free from public. So only room for the queues at both sides of the Mall and of course the lucky ones seated on Horse Guards Parade. My estimation is that it will be -at best- comparable with a Wembley Stadium, which means roughly 80.000 people.
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  #656  
Old 06-20-2017, 05:03 AM
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I think there will be a general scaling back of the pageantry surrounding the monarchy over the next several years, with this being a prologue for a more generalized scaling back when Charles becomes king. Less lavish ceremonies, fewer working members of the royal family, etc.

This isn't a bad thing. I think monarchies in general do need to be able to adapt, which in the future means less and less fuss. The British monarchy is stable and has been around long enough that it can make these changes slowly and hopefully in. A well thought out manner.
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  #657  
Old 06-20-2017, 05:18 AM
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I was at Trooping last year and the full length of The Mall on both sides of the road was at least 10 deep. There are also people who watch in Green Park and St James' Park who then join the people in The Mall. The police told me that they estimated close on 250,000 in The Mall last year.

There was certainly fewer this year but probably around 150,000 given the pictures I have seen.
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  #658  
Old 06-20-2017, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by camelot23ca View Post
I think there will be a general scaling back of the pageantry surrounding the monarchy over the next several years, with this being a prologue for a more generalized scaling back when Charles becomes king.
Things have been heading that way for a while too. State visits have been scaled back, the jubilees in 2002 and 2012 both involved less ceremony than the one before, weddings have gotten smaller, etc.
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  #659  
Old 06-20-2017, 08:05 PM
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The State Opening of Parliament 2017: Coverage Starts at 10:30am on BBC One-
BBC One - The State Opening of Parliament

Cspan2 Coverage: 6:30am-
https://www.c-span.org/video/?430264...ish-parliament
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  #660  
Old 06-21-2017, 06:14 AM
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