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View Poll Results: What Tiara will Catherine wear on her Wedding Day?
The Girls of Great Britain and Ireland Tiara 8 4.85%
The Cambridge Lover's Knot Tiara 19 11.52%
The Queen Mother's Scroll Tiara 9 5.45%
The Strathmore Rose Tiara 51 30.91%
The Spencer Tiara 7 4.24%
The Fringe Tiara (aka George III Fringe Tiara) 11 6.67%
The Rundell Diamond Tiara 7 4.24%
Something that has been hidden in the Vaults! 33 20.00%
The Middletons will buy her a new one 9 5.45%
Nothing. She will either wear a jewelry clip or flowers in her hair. 9 5.45%
None of the Above 2 1.21%
Voters: 165. You may not vote on this poll

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  #521  
Old 01-19-2011, 04:42 PM
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what events other then the wedding will be the first events we my see some jewllery with a history.
will there be any dinner the days before the wedding?
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  #522  
Old 01-19-2011, 05:58 PM
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My Catherine is a Swan ..i wanna see more jools of darling Diana around her divine neck and wrists..i'm gonna die if she wears Di's wedding dress n' shoes n' that absolutely glorious veil ..no kiddin, i'll be in awe for the rest of my life!
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  #523  
Old 01-20-2011, 03:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg View Post
Most of the tiaras worn by The Queen are bequests from Queen Mary or were created using gems that were state gifts. These pieces are highly likely to have been designated by Queen Mary in her Will as belonging to the Crown to be worn in right of it, while The Queen has probably done the same in her Will with the newer creations.

I would predict these tiaras will remain with the Crown to be worn only by a Queen or Queen Consort.
Had not thought of that. Then again the Queen or Queen Consort could always "loan" out the pieces depending on how strict the rules are. As for the Princess Consort bit I believe legally she will be Queen Consort so I think that is how they will get around those rules.
  #524  
Old 01-20-2011, 10:23 AM
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We'll see. In a family famous for the whole 'Dont sit in that chair Queen Victoria last sat in it', etc I doubt that they would completely flout Q Vicoria's and Q Mary's wills. The will says 'to be worn by future Queens, in right of it'.
  #525  
Old 01-21-2011, 01:29 AM
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Technically, anything designated as belonging to the Crown to be worn in right of it by a Queen or Queen Consort means those pieces would not be lent or passed on to a member of the royal family. Nonetheless, the jewels belong to The Sovereign as their personal property and they can do whatever they wish.

The Queen is highly unlikely to offer up any surprises for Catherine and if she is given a tiara, it is very likely to be the Lover's Knot or a smaller piece as previously discussed here.
  #526  
Old 01-21-2011, 11:23 PM
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Good points made about the will. The Queen seems very traditional in that regard. She also seems very stingy with her jewels. I wonder why? I don't expect an off loading of her jewels right away. I believe that she will wait a while.

I suspect Kate might get a loaner for the wedding day. That is one of the reasons why I think it will be the Fringe. She will have no need for a tiara like Diana did because there does not appear to be an immediate push for her to become a full-time working member of the family. I just hope the Lover's Knot goes to Harry and Kate gets something else.
  #527  
Old 01-23-2011, 06:04 PM
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Was Queen Mary's Emerald Stomacher passed along to another member of the family or is this still within the royal vaults? Are there any shots of the QM or HM wearing it?
  #528  
Old 01-28-2011, 01:15 PM
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Hello fellow forum followers: I'm new to the forums, but not new to royalty-watching.

IMHO, it seems that, rather than being stingy as has been suggested, The Queen is very much a traditionalist at heart, especially in matters of royal prerogatives.

Since the queens who preceded her back to Victoria kept the jewelry collection together until it was time to distribute after their deaths, AND since both Victoria and Mary made distributions privately and to the Crown collection, I suspect that QE II will do the same.

And the most important jewels that she has loaned have primarily been to the wife of her next in line: first Diana was given some good jewelry, which were loans, and now Camilla seems to have the Delhi Durbar at her disposal which MUST be in the crown collection, and she has worn the Boucheron tiara AND the fabulous Greville five-string diamond necklace given to QE the QM and left by her to QE II.

Certainly no one else in the Royal Family has worn the truly important gems other than the Queen, the Princess of Wales and the Duchess of Cornwall. I certainly doubt that it is due to the Queen's personal preference or to stingyness, but most likely has to do with the appropriateness of having the truly important jewels being worn outside of the direct line of succession.

Weighing further on this topic, unless the Middletons buy her a tiara, Catherine will no doubt be loaned something good for her wedding, in recognition that she is to be the wife of the heir's direct heir. If my logic is correct, and tiara-wearing has symbolism and connotes a quiet statement made by the Queen, the tiara loaned to Catherine will likely not be one that has been worn outside the direct line of succession (or the consort thereof). The one exception to this was that, for her wedding, the Pr. Royal wore the fringe tiara that her mother wore for her own wedding.

I found it interesting that for Margaret, Sarah and Sophie, NEW tiaras were bought/made, despite all of those in the queen's possession... There must, therefore, be some special tradition or consideration attached to those in the Crown collection and those that were bequeathed personally to The Queen. Otherwise, wouldn't it have been more like the typically frugal Queen to have just reached into her collection for these pieces?

If they are eventually sold (like Margaret's Poltimore), there will be no royal tradition to be flouted, as there was when some of Victoria's pieces were sold by other heirs. The Queen has added little to the collection (other than state gifts), but I suspect that she will choose to keep the bulk of her personal collection together for direct heirs to the throne, other than small gifts to her other grandchildren, nieces and nephews, most of whom will never have the need to wear a tiara. Perhaps Harry's wife will get a tiara, and some good pieces, for he, like the Princess Royal in her generation, will probably remain in active royal duty.

Again, just one royal watcher's opinion!
  #529  
Old 01-28-2011, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Susanna Wynne View Post
Hello fellow forum followers: I'm new to the forums, but not new to royalty-watching...
IMHO, it seems that, rather than being stingy as has been suggested, The Queen is very much a traditionalist at heart, especially in matters of royal prerogatives.

...Certainly no one else in the Royal Family has worn the truly important gems other than the Queen, the Princess of Wales and the Duchess of Cornwall. I certainly doubt that it is due to the Queen's personal preference or to stingyness, but most likely has to do with the appropriateness of having the truly important jewels being worn outside of the direct line of succession. ...
I agree. The Queen, more than most of her household even I would bet, knows how tradition and protocol dictate the selection of a tiara in this instance. She may have offered a choice to Catherine, but of carefully selected pieces.

Personally, I'm rather hoping that as Prince William and Catherine have been together so long, the Queen has been quietly having some of the jewelry (including tiaras) in the vaults cleaned and repaired that she has chosen not to wear herself, or offered to the Duchess of Cornwall. You know, for the time the engagement was announced and wedding plans began.

She may even have had a new tiara made (perhaps ala the Countess of Wessex, from older pieces) that will be part of the Royal Collection, but specifically to be loaned to Catherine.

I can't wait to see it all on the big day!
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  #530  
Old 01-29-2011, 02:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Susanna Wynne View Post
...and now Camilla seems to have the Delhi Durbar at her disposal which MUST be in the crown collection...
To the best of my knowledge the Delhi Durbar Diadem hasn't been formally given to the Crown Collection and remains the personal and private property of HM.
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  #531  
Old 01-29-2011, 01:39 PM
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Delhi Durbar

That was an assumption on my part. Thanks for the correction.

So, then none of the pieces loaned to Camilla are crown pieces... Hmmm. Even more interesting. They are certainly important pieces, but she doesn't get the use of crown pieces until the accession of the POW...

I am certainly convinced that there is no accident in the Queen's preferences in the loans/gifts she makes, but that there is a concept/tradition that she follows.

Warren, do you know if the Cambridge Lover's Knot that Diana was loaned was from the Crown collection, or was it given to her personally? I think I remember that it belonged to Queen Mary.
  #532  
Old 01-29-2011, 02:14 PM
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Well it is very exciting all this speculation but as has been said the day is fast approaching and it will be amazing to see what the fonal outcome will be.
I have no idea which will be chosen or that she will chose I imagine it will all come down to her gown but I am hoping she will wear her hair up to maximize the impact of the ancient heirlooms.
  #533  
Old 01-29-2011, 02:38 PM
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indure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duchessmary View Post
I wonder which of Diana's jewels we'll start seeing in the near future!
none we hope

when I married I called the King of Oman from the office of Cartier (mind you we never had any odd ideas of each other) but be prepared for a long bill for people thinking they can bill whatever they want - stealing from the Arab world, most of the jewels come from there after South Africa at one point and turkai too among others
  #534  
Old 01-29-2011, 04:48 PM
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Whaaaaaat!!!!!????
  #535  
Old 01-29-2011, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Somersby Tulip View Post
none we hope

when I married I called the King of Oman from the office of Cartier (mind you we never had any odd ideas of each other) but be prepared for a long bill for people thinking they can bill whatever they want - stealing from the Arab world, most of the jewels come from there after South Africa at one point and turkai too among others
Please clarify.... What are you talking about?
  #536  
Old 01-29-2011, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Susanna Wynne View Post
Warren, do you know if the Cambridge Lover's Knot that Diana was loaned was from the Crown collection, or was it given to her personally? I think I remember that it belonged to Queen Mary.
Yes, it was made for Queen Mary in 1914 as copy of the tiara owned by her aunt Grand Duchess Augusta of Mecklenburg-Strelitz. Augusta's tiara was originally made for her mother, Augusta of Hesse, when she married the Duke of Cambridge in 1818. The lovers' knot (or bow-knot) tiara design is not unique - there are (were) about half a dozen tiaras of near-identical design throughout the Gotha.

According to Suzy Menkes in "The Royal Jewels" there are just two tiaras which are currently designated as Crown property: the Diamond Diadem of George IV and the Brilliant Regal Tiara, aka the Indian Circlet, a favourite of the late Queen Mother. Both were left to the Crown by Queen Victoria and none have been added since.
Thus the thirty-plus tiaras thought to be held in the vaults beneath Buckingham Palace are the personal and private property of HM.
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  #537  
Old 01-29-2011, 06:30 PM
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Thank you for the information, this was very interesting.
  #538  
Old 01-30-2011, 06:56 PM
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Jewels for Kate

I have been thinking that the Queen's South African diamonds (that she received for her 21st birthday) would look great on Kate! Elegant necklace and a good size for her.
  #539  
Old 01-30-2011, 08:21 PM
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I pray she gets her own tiara. I think the lover's knot should go back to the vault. She has Di's engagement ring and is compared to her a lot. I think the girl needs something that is hers.

I would love to know what is in the vaults!

I have to say, I love a lot of Princess Anne's tiara's. I wish those would go back to the crown. I also wish the Portmore didn't have to be sold. How beautiful.
  #540  
Old 01-31-2011, 12:24 AM
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Thank you, Warren! The breadth of your knowledge is amazing! Since there are so few in the crown collection, my theory about how HM will decide is likely without foundation and so is just speculation. It will be interesting to see what Catherine is given, which may give a hint as to how HM thinks about all of this...
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