The Duke and Duchess of Sussex to Step Back as Senior Royals: January 2020

[wyevale]

H&M returning to the UK

I cannot see 'Meghan Duchess of Sussex' returning to the UK.. she's made her opinion of this country, [and the family she married into] CRYSTAL CLEAR..and is likely to be received accordingly.

 

[Denville]

Why do you think Harry is stupid? Of course, he knows money doesn't grow on trees. He had a 'regular' job in the military and that is actually where he thrived. He has also shown he isn't afraid of work putting a lot of effort and energy into whole scale projects.

but he's said that he finds cameras clicking etc upset him and send him back to the trauma of his mother's death. If he embarks on a money making career, it is bound to involve public nad press attention. And he has never had to make money or hustl,e like Meghan has. I don't think he realises quite what it takes...

 

[_Heather_]

As for blazing a new trail or laying out a new path for future royals who happen to be the younger sons or daughters...how presumptuous can these two be? Seriously. Just because they didn't like their situation and wanted out doesn't mean that future younger children will feel the same way. Who are they to say that Charlotte or Louis would want out or should be out if they and their parents don't agree? I find that whole idea presumptuous to the nth degree. But then again, these two are routinely quite presumptuous.

As for Jane Goodall...I really don't understand why it's so incredibly difficult for all of these "acquaintances" to keep their mouths shut instead of fueling the fires that are currently surrounding Harry and Meghan. Yes, I know they were asked and just answered a question. However, it's really not that hard to say that they have no comment, prefer not to speak on the matter, etc. and by making statements such as these they're really just wading into what has become a ridiculous swamp of "he said, she said, they said, a source said" and choosing sides and who/what to believe.

 

[Betsypaige]

Why do you think Harry is stupid? Of course, he knows money doesn't grow on trees. He had a 'regular' job in the military and that is actually where he thrived. He has also shown he isn't afraid of work putting a lot of effort and energy into whole scale projects.


Was it really 'a bull in a China shop' the Queen even admitted that talks had been ongoing for months (not days or weeks)? However, Harry stopped playing their games when the palace leaked the plans and then Harry was blocked seeing the Queen (per royal reporters). He took his story, his life, his family's life into his own hands....as they were just dragging him along.

Their games? No, Harry and Meghan just didn’t want to wait like mature adults until a plan could be worked out, and defying his father and the Queen, they forced everyone to drop what they were doing to deal with them right then and there.

As for blazing a new trail or laying out a new path for future royals who happen to be the younger sons or daughters...how presumptuous can these two be? Seriously. Just because they didn't like their situation and wanted out doesn't mean that future younger children will feel the same way. Who are they to say that Charlotte or Louis would want out or should be out if they and their parents don't agree? I find that whole idea presumptuous to the nth degree. But then again, these two are routinely quite presumptuous.

As for Jane Goodall...I really don't understand why it's so incredibly difficult for all of these "acquaintances" to keep their mouths shut instead of fueling the fires that are currently surrounding Harry and Meghan. Yes, I know they were asked and just answered a question. However, it's really not that hard to say that they have no comment, prefer not to speak on the matter, etc. and by making statements such as these they're really just wading into what has become a ridiculous swamp of "he said, she said, they said, a source said" and choosing sides and who/what to believe.

LOL I was going to say the same thing about Jane Goodall but wasn’t sure if I wanted to open a hornet’s nest. Is she friends with Harry? Does she know him well? If she’s not and doesn’t, then she shouldn’t be speaking for him even if he did open up to an acquaintance. If she is friends with him, then...doesn’t Harry have any friends with any discretion, at all?

 

[ACO]

I can’t read the article now; I was able to read it at the time it was published, but not now, so I don’t know what it said except I don’t believe a word out of Mouthpiece Bradby’s mouth.

As for Prince Laurent - who I’ve never heard of before now, I think his comments were incredibly rude, commenting on the BRF as a family (as if he knows everyone’s personal relationships) and as part of the monarchy as well. It’s presumptuous of him to say that Harry and Meghan are treated as possessions. Ugh.

I don’t necessarily agree with the man but how is his comments any different than those posted here? I see plenty of them speaking as if they know the BRF personally especially their thoughts and motives. He knows as much as anyone on here. Yet opinions vary. It’s all rather presumptuous to be honest.

I think H and M are thinking of themselves, not future Royals...but even if I believed them, I think it’s a lousy plan and I don’t see many, if any, Royals following in their footsteps.

I wouldn’t assume that. In 15 to 20 years who knows what will be going on. If the Sussexes manage to have success than why wouldn’t someone like Louis want to venture out on his own. He the third child and at this point sees how the non heirs are eventually treated in the grand scheme of things. Not important and bound to duty.

No one can see into the future. Who could have predicted 2 years ago that Harry would no longer be a working royal? Will be interesting to watch though.

 

[Alison H]

I thought Serena was brilliant when journalists hassled her about it during a post-match interview at the Australian Open, and she said she had absolutely no comment to make. No-one needs to be shouting their mouths off in public.

 

[BaiSoSo]

Their games? No, Harry and Meghan just didn’t want to wait like mature adults until a plan could be worked out, and defying his father and the Queen, they forced everyone to drop what they were doing to deal with them right then and there.

Yes their games...according to royal reporters Harry was told he could meet with the Queen to discuss the issues and then when he went to meet with her she was 'busy' that day, her courtiers turned him away. The next thing you know the Sun is posting details about the plan before anything was finalized. This is after Harry indicated to Charles he was reluctant to put anything in writing because things get leaked. Of course, it got leaked and Harry said enough of these GAMES. They had been working on a plan for MONTHS according to the Queen's statement why did they start dragging their feet. They wouldn't have been a need to drop everything if their courtiers didn't leak information and prevent Harry from speaking to the Queen....playing GAMES.

I think H and M are thinking of themselves, not future Royals...but even if I believed them, I think it’s a lousy plan and I don’t see many, if any, Royals following in their footsteps.

Why on earth can Harry & Meghan not think of themselves and their family (children), especially if it is to bring peace of mind? Why do they have to stay in an abusive situation...and that is what the situation with the media is and no support from the family other than to allow them to be scapegoats for true misdeeds of some relatives?

How do you know it is a lousy plan when you don't even know what they have in mind? Regardless if others follow in their footsteps or not... that shouldn't prevent them from doing what they feel is best for their family, everyone is different and has different needs.

 

[_Heather_]

I thought Serena was brilliant when journalists hassled her about it during a post-match interview at the Australian Open, and she said she had absolutely no comment to make. No-one needs to be shouting their mouths off in public.

Agreed. Which is probably why we, or at least I, haven't seen anyone screaming about how Serena is now acting as Meghan's unofficial spokesperson or her personal champion. Serena's reaction really should be the model for anyone and everyone who might be even remotely connected enough to be asked.

 

[Saragli]

In terms of creating a road-map for future royals outside the direct line of succession they don't have to look any further than the York Princess's. They have been an ever evolving experiment since reaching adulthood on how non-"senior" royals go about being members of the royal family. They both have jobs, working under legal names rather than titles, carry about patronages as "princess's", whilst maintaining a public, albeit restrained, presence. The trial and errors of their security funding, wedding planning, and etc. are creating clear blueprints for the future.

HM however where never going to be minor royals. The intention was for them to support the monarch as needed, which would naturally take them up to retirement age, and then step back and enjoy a life of leisure and wealth. I hate to think of the brothers not supporting each other and would cheer the day HM return to the fold, but if not, I hope they find peace.

 

[_Heather_]

In terms of creating a road-map for future royals outside the direct line of succession they don't have to look any further than the York Princess's. They have been an ever evolving experiment since reaching adulthood on how non-"senior" royals go about being members of the royal family. They both have jobs, working under legal names rather than titles, carry about patronages as "princess's", whilst maintaining a public, albeit restrained, presence. The trial and errors of their security funding, wedding planning, and etc. are creating clear blueprints for the future.

This is actually an excellent point. The York girls really have been setting out quite the blueprint for how it can and should be done, though I'm not entirely sure that was completely intentional. Regardless of intent, though, it's really shaped up rather nicely and does appear to be a great blueprint going forward for those who are not the successors. I very much agree with those who have stated that the only thing Harry and Meghan have laid out a blueprint for is how not to do things and what not to do. I do find it slightly ironic, though, that we all thought the York girls would be the hot messes that the BRF had to rein in when, in fact, it was Harry and Company.

 

[wyevale]

according to royal reporters

Its funny how those that support this couple 'believe' the media when [and only when] they report in their favour...

 

[Eskimo]

I have to admit that I half-read, half-scanned the article because my eyes couldn’t deal with the idea of “influencers” anymore....

I do think that guy is right, though - Harry is not Obama; he’s playing on his family name, not on any accomplishments of his own. After some time, will people even think of them as Royal?

IMO, and someone else mentioned it in this thread, this is the reason their half-in and half-out option was unworkable. If they want to be influencers, they need to have a sizable following. The lines between Royal work and Influencer work would get blurred pretty immediately. The media could easily claim that they were doing their Royal work to maintain the following that they needed to be successful influencers or worse. That is the kind of negative publicity that the BRF can ill afford.

 

[UglyAmerican]

Yes their games...according to royal reporters Harry was told he could meet with the Queen to discuss the issues and then when he went to meet with her she was 'busy' that day, her courtiers turned him away. The next thing you know the Sun is posting details about the plan before anything was finalized. This is after Harry indicated to Charles he was reluctant to put anything in writing because things get leaked. Of course, it got leaked and Harry said enough of these GAMES. They had been working on a plan for MONTHS according to the Queen's statement why did they start dragging their feet. They wouldn't have been a need to drop everything if their courtiers didn't leak information and prevent Harry from speaking to the Queen....playing GAMES.

Multiple sources have reported that the Queen told Harry to come to an agreement with Charles, and then she'd look at whatever plan they'd agreed on. He didn't do that, and chose to publish his wish list rather than follow the perfectly reasonable procedure the Queen had requested.

The leak, if it was really a leak, likely as not came from the Sussexes' side. They've had plenty of other leaks-that-might-have-been-on-purpose, both before and after their announcement. Their inability to control their own staff doesn't obligate the Queen to spend hours and hours personally negotiating things on Harry's terms. Regardless, with all the complex issues that have been raised here and elsewhere - precedent for titles and styles, Frogmore rent and repayment, security arrangements and financing, patronages, rota participation and its consequences for those patronages, diplomatic status and other immigration issues, ground rules for commercialization, and at least a dozen other things - I don't see how anyone could really believe that this could have been sorted out without anything ever having been put in writing before it was finalized. The Queen and Charles aren't going to know these kind of specifics off the top of their heads - they're going to need to have their staff research them. That couldn't realistically have all been done verbally.

And what difference does it ultimately make? Supposing the leak wasn't intentional, why couldn't they have just ignored it, or let the palace issue whatever statement it wanted, while they continued to try to reach an agreement with Charles and later the Queen? How would that have been any worse for them than what actually happened?

 

[Eskimo]

If a child is born in Canada it is automatically Canadian. Getting UK and USA passports would be easy as the parents are citizens. I know all 3 countries allow dual citizenship, but I don't know if they allow 3.

When Princess Margriet of the Netherlands was born in Canada during the war, the government had to declare the hospital non-Canadian territory for the birth so that she wouldn't be a Canadian citizen.

Canada and the US have no issues with someone have several citizenship's. I am not sure about the UK. I am also not sure if the UK allows people in the immediate line of succession to have dual citizenship (pledging allegiance to someone besides the Queen). Yes, Archie is entitled to US citizenship but I am not sure he actually has got a US Passport.

 

[Gawin]

Its funny how those that support this couple 'believe' the media when [and only when] they report in their favour...

LOL - I agree!

And no matter who leaked the plan, the Sussexes had no right to release their own statement without authorization from the Palace. They don't work for themselves. It was very disrespectful to the Queen.

The fact that the "progressive new role" they wanted was rejected also tells us their statement was NOT based on months of planning with other members of the BRF.

The idea of giving the Sussexes a new role may have been discussed for months, but the specific plan they came up with wasn't.

 

[texankitcat]

As for blazing a new trail or laying out a new path for future royals who happen to be the younger sons or daughters...how presumptuous can these two be? Seriously. Just because they didn't like their situation and wanted out doesn't mean that future younger children will feel the same way. Who are they to say that Charlotte or Louis would want out or should be out if they and their parents don't agree? I find that whole idea presumptuous to the nth degree. But then again, these two are routinely quite presumptuous.

As for Jane Goodall...I really don't understand why it's so incredibly difficult for all of these "acquaintances" to keep their mouths shut instead of fueling the fires that are currently surrounding Harry and Meghan. Yes, I know they were asked and just answered a question. However, it's really not that hard to say that they have no comment, prefer not to speak on the matter, etc. and by making statements such as these they're really just wading into what has become a ridiculous swamp of "he said, she said, they said, a source said" and choosing sides and who/what to believe.

What I find more concerning is why all these "acquaintances" are in possession
of such personal information. It seems that he complained to everyone and anyone who would listen. Can you imagine the Queen or Prince Charles complaining to everyone they meet about how hard their life is?

LOL - I agree!

And no matter who leaked the plan, the Sussexes had no right to release their own statement without authorization from the Palace. They don't work for themselves. It was very disrespectful to the Queen.

The fact that the "progressive new role" they wanted was rejected also tells us their statement was NOT based on months of planning with other members of the BRF.

The idea of giving the Sussexes a new role may have been discussed for months, but the specific plan they came up with wasn't.

Exactly! It's just another way to absolve themselves of any responsibility towards the outcome.

 

[Eskimo]

I thought Serena was brilliant when journalists hassled her about it during a post-match interview at the Australian Open, and she said she had absolutely no comment to make. No-one needs to be shouting their mouths off in public.

Again, if their intention is to be influencers, they cannot afford to have friends that do not shout their mouths off in public. Being an influencer requires the public to have a very positive image of you and right now their image is not positive enough for them to sustainably "influence". Hence, the need for their friends to shout their mouths off.

 

[Hallo girl]

Exactly! It's just another way to absolve themselves of any responsibility towards the outcome.

IMO the palace wanted everything agreed before it was issued to the public.

Harry has said himself things are not as he would have wished, so that IMO suggests a reason why no announcement had previously been made, because they couldn't come to an agreement.
They went public not just with the statement but with the website which listed how they saw their future.

They have moved things along quickly but from what Harry has said the final outcome is not what he would have preferred.

I do not know if there was a leak or not but IMO the website did not help their case.
Could somebody tell Oprah the palace knew they wanted to move on but they blindsided them with the timing of the statement and the website. Nobody from the palace has ever said that they did not know they wanted to go.

 

[Pranter]

IMO the palace wanted everything agreed before it was issued to the public.

Harry has said himself things are not as he would have wished, so that IMO suggests a reason why no announcement had previously been made, because they couldn't come to an agreement.
They went public not just with the statement but with the website which listed how they saw their future.

They have moved things along quickly but from what Harry has said the final outcome is not what he would have preferred.

I do not know if there was a leak or not but IMO the website did not help their case.
Could somebody tell Oprah the palace knew they wanted to move on but they blindsided them with the timing of the statement and the website. Nobody from the palace has ever said that they did not know they wanted to go.

It was at least some ppl here and elsewhere who were convinced that the Queen had no idea about the Sussexes plan/wanting out until they posted the website.

Oprah was reiterating that per the Queen's statement THEY knew, she was not blindsided by the content but by the timing.

As far as leaks go..my understanding is the guy (Wooten) that was doing the leaking has a partner that works for KP correspondence so some ppl think that is a likely source. I doubt we will ever know for sure.

LaRae

 

[Betsypaige]

I wouldn’t assume that. In 15 to 20 years who knows what will be going on. If the Sussexes manage to have success than why wouldn’t someone like Louis want to venture out on his own. He the third child and at this point sees how the non heirs are eventually treated in the grand scheme of things. Not important and bound to duty.

No one can see into the future. Who could have predicted 2 years ago that Harry would no longer be a working royal? Will be interesting to watch though.

I was thinking more along the lines of how Harry and Meghan went about it. Sure, it's possible that Louis, say, might want to do his own things - I don't even think that was an issue with the Queen or Charles, but rather like I called it before, the "bull in a china shop" approach. Maybe in the future there will be a way for future Royals to modify their schedule to allow them to do other things, while ensuring that they still remain in the fold.

 

[Hallo girl]

This is actually an excellent point. The York girls really have been setting out quite the blueprint for how it can and should be done, though I'm not entirely sure that was completely intentional. Regardless of intent, though, it's really shaped up rather nicely and does appear to be a great blueprint going forward for those who are not the successors. I very much agree with those who have stated that the only thing Harry and Meghan have laid out a blueprint for is how not to do things and what not to do. I do find it slightly ironic, though, that we all thought the York girls would be the hot messes that the BRF had to rein in when, in fact, it was Harry and Company.

The other thing is the queens children have all continued to support her with royal duties, it is the grandchildren with the exception of William and Harry who have been told no royal duties. ( as opposed to charity work )

Why would it be thought that there is not a place for Harry , who in time will be the son of a king not just son of an heir, as for the non title for Archie I gave him credit for thinking ahead as Anne had all those years ago.

 

[Betsypaige]

In terms of creating a road-map for future royals outside the direct line of succession they don't have to look any further than the York Princess's. They have been an ever evolving experiment since reaching adulthood on how non-"senior" royals go about being members of the royal family. They both have jobs, working under legal names rather than titles, carry about patronages as "princess's", whilst maintaining a public, albeit restrained, presence. The trial and errors of their security funding, wedding planning, and etc. are creating clear blueprints for the future.

HM however where never going to be minor royals. The intention was for them to support the monarch as needed, which would naturally take them up to retirement age, and then step back and enjoy a life of leisure and wealth. I hate to think of the brothers not supporting each other and would cheer the day HM return to the fold, but if not, I hope they find peace.

Frankly, Louis and Charlotte will be needed more than ever, and if they have children so will their children since Harry, Meghan, Archie and any future children they have are out.

 

[Princess]

To be honest, I can hardly see Harry getting happy in North America, just as little as Meghan getting happy in the UK. So it will be exciting how this all will end and at what stage we will be in 2 years.

We'll see, I could be all wrong. Actually I won't call making predictions as one of my specialties (if you consider I never gave Madeleine and Chris a chance of 7 year by now)



For stepping in the "empty" space H&M left, I would be happy for Eugenie and Jack (given that they are willing to of course).

 

[akina21]

Why would it be thought that there is not a place for Harry , who in time will be the son of a king not just son of an heir, as for the non title for Archie I gave him credit for thinking ahead as Anne had all those years ago.

I doubt anyone was thinking ahead . Peter and Zara never had the right to any title .

 

[julia garcia roch]

SOme people did believe that this was a possibility, that she hadn't spent any real time in the UK and didn't know quite what to expect in Royal British life.. and I think those fears were well grounded. But if she had at least given it 5 years before giving up, I think people might think better of her, than her apparnetnt disappearance after less than 2 years.



I dotn believe he renounced his honorary titles.. I don't think many people expected that to happen and it was almost certainly the queen's idea and he had to go along with it...

Meghan and Harry wrote a public announcement to part ways. What is that? If you leave the country where you are serving, you leave your military responsibilities. They keep on talking about being away from the spotlight and all they do is make public announcements. Why didn't the speak to the BRF in private first?

 

[Betsypaige]

Meghan and Harry wrote a public announcement to part ways. What is that? If you leave the country where you are serving, you leave your military responsibilities. They keep on talking about being away from the spotlight and all they do is make public announcements. Why didn't the speak to the BRF in private first?

They did speak to them, talks were ongoing for awhile. Harry and Meghan just got tired of the process and, defying the Queen and his father, went public on their own.

 

[Alison H]

I doubt anyone was thinking ahead . Peter and Zara never had the right to any title .

The Queen could have given Mark Phillips a title, like Princess Margaret's husband was made Earl of Snowdon. OK, Peter and Zara wouldn't have been a prince and princess, but they'd have been Viscount Whatever and Lady Zara Phillips. The situation hadn't arisen before, because monarchs' daughters who hadn't married princes had married dukes or earls, but it was quite a big thing at the time for the Queen's son-in-law to be plain old Captain Mark Phillips.

But Anne and Mark didn't want that ... whereas I can't imagine Princess Margaret would have liked her husband being plain Mr!

It's vaguely weird that Prince Andrew's children are princesses, Princess Anne's are just Mr and Mrs, and Prince Edward's are Lady and Viscount, but it was what they all wanted!

 

[Denville]

I doubt anyone was thinking ahead . Peter and Zara never had the right to any title .

Exactly. But Archie would normally become an HRH when Charles is King.. and there would be a possibility of his being watned for a royal role. however, I don't think that is ever going to happen now.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

It was at least some ppl here and elsewhere who were convinced that the Queen had no idea about the Sussexes plan/wanting out until they posted the website.

Oprah was reiterating that per the Queen's statement THEY knew, she was not blindsided by the content but by the timing.

As far as leaks go..my understanding is the guy (Wooten) that was doing the leaking has a partner that works for KP correspondence so some ppl think that is a likely source. I doubt we will ever know for sure.

LaRae

And Dan Wooten denied the rumors of where he got the story.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1216072178308984832

 

[Denville]

And Dan Wooten denied the rumors of where he got the story.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1216072178308984832

I think that they have been complaining for a while.. and vague negotiations were going on. But it seems that the Sussexes werne't seeing thtat much of ther relatives since the summer. Possibly the queen hoped that they would get over the problems and settle down again, but she had other worries like Andrew and Brexit and if they didn't want to come and visit, she didn't press them...

The Queen could have given Mark Phillips a title, like Princess Margaret's husband was made Earl of Snowdon. OK, Peter and Zara wouldn't have been a prince and princess, but they'd have been Viscount Whatever and Lady Zara Phillips. The situation hadn't arisen before, because monarchs' daughters who hadn't married princes had married dukes or earls, but it was quite a big thing at the time for the Queen's son-in-law to be plain old Captain Mark Phillips.

But Anne and Mark didn't want that ... whereas I can't imagine Princess Margaret would have liked her husband being plain Mr!

It's vaguely weird that Prince Andrew's children are princesses, Princess Anne's are just Mr and Mrs, and Prince Edward's are Lady and Viscount, but it was what they all wanted!

she cuodl have given Mark a title but that wouldn't mean that his kids were likey to be watned for royal life.. Pss Margs children were the children of an earl but they were never considered "royal" or used for royal duties. ANd Mark and Anne wanted their kids to be as normal as possible.