The Duke and Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 8: April - August 2023

[duchessrachel]

Tatiana Maria and HRHHERMIONE, many thanks for the great WSJ article.

Wow, it seems like The Sussex's Business Model is struggling. Big time.

My favorite takeaway from this informative read was the line, "Big idea, subpar execution". That sums up the dilemma the Sussex's have faced since they embarked on "Finding Freedom".

Little strategy, long term planning or realistic goals. Just "winging" it, acting impulsively, WITHOUT having ALL their ducks in a row so to speak.

Just like when they decided to abruptly bolt in Jan of 2020.

Nothing seems to have changed, according to this article. Do they ever learn, grow, adapt or reflect on why or how things work ? Change ? Compromise.

Much of these familiar debacles could have been avoided by The Sussex's exercising some patience.

As far back then in late 2019. Follow what QEll and Charles suggested, develop a plan, in writing, to submit and see what could be worked out as feasible.

IN PRIVATE, so details, recommendations and "accommodations" between the Queen, Charles - William, and The Sussex's and their Advisors could be worked out, hopefully. Give and take, as most things are in life. Negotiate.

Do Harry and Meghan EVER "think outside the Box". Plan, follow through, or listen to others ? If anything, according to sources here, they seem even more isolated and convinced that they always know best, now and then.

The Sussex's always go rogue. It seems. Announced their p!an to leave it to The Media.....and left, in Jan 2020, because The Palace didn't move quick enough to indulge and comply with The Sussex's plans.

Stating they were stepping back as Senior Members, BUT preposterously claimed they were going to "carve out a PROGRESSIVE NEW ROLE WITHIN THIS INSTITUTION. Every time I read the Sussex's Manifesto, I can't imagine what alarm bells that had to have set off for QEll and Charles.

Breathtakingly so impulsive, that no housing consideration was even set up by The Sussex's upon leaving The UK. Why ? Who does that ?

And they foolishly assumed AND expected that their multi million Security Protection needs would be paid for by The British Taxpayer. Even though they had quit The UK and were living in North America. Again, another gross miscalculation by them.

It just snow balled after that.....Finding Freedom, Oprah, Netflix Docu-series, Spare, ect.....Slam The Family-Firm get money. That's their ONLY viable Modus Opperendi, it seems.

This article was terrific at pointing out that the pitfalls now facing The Sussex's AND are entirely of their own doing.

I had to laugh at their supposed latest (aptly named) project "Bad Manners" !!!! A prequel based on the character of Miss Haversham from Dicken's "Great Expectations ". Which will be about a lonely spinster living in a patriarchal society !!!!!!!! Oh, man I can't imagine that ever getting approved.

And thats what Harry and Meghan are pitching to Netflix ? Its sound like a joke to me.
I'm starting to wonder after reading this article if WME, Meghans new Agents are having serious regrets about taking her on a a Client.

I had been a huge supporter of Harry and Meghan until they published their manifesto. That statement I bolded in your post about carving out a progressive role as well their statement about "collaborate with the Her Majesty The Queen. . ." is what made be not support them anymore. Prince Harry should have realized that a working member of the Royal family does not collaborate with the Queen; they work for the Queen and everything they do as working members is about supporting her. The Monarch is the focus of the Royal Family. For the life of me, I still don't understand why Harry did not understand that. I also believe that they did not plan well enough but stamped off in a temper tantrum. Now, because of their lack of research and planning, they are paying the price.

 

[Asteria12]

The terminology used in their manifesto was not Harry's, it was most likely Meghan's (and her Manager or whoever was advising her at the time). Anyone who has listened to her speeches would recognise her idiolect. Was it intended to be insulting to the Queen? I don't think so, I think it is an example of the culture gap that exists between some Americans such as Meghan, and the British. The same culture gap that prompted Meghan's comment "I can't believe I'm not getting paid for this." So if Meghan and her people wrote the manifesto, how come Harry didn't say "hang on, one does not collaborate with the Queen, one works for the Queen..."? Its either: a) Harry doesn't understand culture gaps and didn't pick up on it; b) Harry understood but didn't want to rock the boat with his wife; or c) Harry is convinced his clever wife can do no wrong. As I've said before, he is besotted with her!

 

[Prinsara]

Also d) from many of Harry's own comments and written statements, he does not himself seem to understand how the institution works. Very much the blind leading the blind, except I think a lot of visually-impaired people manage far better than this couple.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

Also d) from many of Harry's own comments and written statements, he does not himself seem to understand how the institution works. Very much the blind leading the blind, except I think a lot of visually-impaired people manage far better than this couple.

He never took royal life seriously IMO, he just took the privileges for granted.

 

[Kaye1850]

If Prince Harry should ever return to the UK, for whatever reason, I think a role in his brother’s new Homewards project would be a good fit. Homelessness is a problem plaguing many veterans, and this is Harry’s niche.

 

[suztav]

The Manifesto was all Meghan. Harry, being completely besotted and incredibly naive, went along with it.

I am an American and I can say with some authority that issuing such a statement is typical of someone without any knowledge or inkling of royal life or British culture.

BTW, despite their protestations, I believe that every statement they ever made was completely insulting to the Queen. She was head of the royal family and the institution. An insult toward any part of the institution was an insult to the Queen.

JMHO

 

[Roderick]

If Prince Harry should ever return to the UK, for whatever reason, I think a role in his brother’s new Homewards project would be a good fit. Homelessness is a problem plaguing many veterans, and this is Harry’s niche.

His niche? According to what I have read, he said he hated everything about being in the royal family.

 

[Somebody]

His niche? According to what I have read, he said he hated everything about being in the royal family.

Kaye1850 was referring to 'veterans' being Harry's niche.

 

[tommy100]

Wasn't it confirmed that Meghan's american team were working on the Sussex Royal website without knowledge of the RF and their UK team. It doesn't read as if it was written by British person - especially the idea of working with the Queen etc.

 

[Sunnystar]

Wasn't it confirmed that Meghan's american team were working on the Sussex Royal website without knowledge of the RF and their UK team. It doesn't read as if it was written by British person - especially the idea of working with the Queen etc.

No, what it reads is as aspirational non-profit sector language being applied to their plans. It's all very lofty, kind and intended to seem as inoffensive as possible, which works in the non-profit sector in general, but certainly NOT for the BRF, which I agree, any British person would have known and recognized. But even if they'd run it past one of their British-based team members, I'm not sure either would have listened since they were already one-foot out the door, suitcase in hand by then.

 

[Queen Claude]

I think that the manifesto was drafted by Meghan and her American team, and I also recall that being reported on.

I am not sure that this is due to Meghan running roughshod over a besotted Harry. I think that prior to and independent of Meghan, Harry believed that there was no real distinction between him and William, and that he may have had it even better than William and his father because, according to Harry, neither his father nor brother want to be King.

I think that he thought of himself as the top male royal, and then when Meghan came along, together they were the top royal couple. To compound that, he also saw / sees Meghan as Diana 2.0 which means multiple things, that she was one of the best things that has ever happened to the BRF, was exceptional at royal duties and would have been the standard bearer for the BRF for these and future times. However, other royals, seeing her awesomeness, became jealous and set out to undermine her/them, and / or used the high level of interest in her to then feed negative stories to the media to deflect from their bad acts, which then adds another layer, because now Harry has to save her from all of these dark forces.

Now how this ties into the manifesto, yeah Meghan and her American team may have drafted it, but Harry buys into it because he believes that he and Meghan / Diana 2.0 were that important to the monarchy and were in a position to implement modernization and other changes and make demands.

 

[Leopoldine]

Wasn't it confirmed that Meghan's american team were working on the Sussex Royal website without knowledge of the RF and their UK team. It doesn't read as if it was written by British person - especially the idea of working with the Queen etc.

Quite right, tommy100. Valentine Low's book details this.

I think as a young single popular guy emerging from military service, Harry wasn't yet in the position where the reality of royal rank was brought home to him. Marrying changed that. He and his wife were slotted into a second son newlywed BRF notch re housing, staff etc. that dismayed them both. Truth be told, many BRF newlywed couples of senior rank spent time in humble housing before moving on to larger accommodation. I suppose the difference is that Meghan was older and wanted things to accelerate.

In "Spare", he actually reveals that he told Meghan not to curtsey to Camilla.

 

[Toledo]

If Prince Harry should ever return to the UK, for whatever reason, I think a role in his brother’s new Homewards project would be a good fit. Homelessness is a problem plaguing many veterans, and this is Harry’s niche.

If Prince Harry returned to the UK he would probably find all doors closed or a very cold reception from his family. Let's think about it: he insulted his dad's wife, his brother and his wife even questioning their parental skills. He insulted the nation that embraced his wife, as if they wrote the tabloids themselves. No apologies but quick to demand them from his family.

Prediction: When William becomes king, I won't be surprised he does everything possible to state that all their titles end with Harry, nontransferable. This is not a 'let's help Harry find a job' competition. He made his choice and burned every bridge behind down to the ground to a point of no return. Why would William of King Charles be expected to welcome back such an ungrateful man-child and find him something to do in the UK?

At this point the reality is Meghan has better chance of finding work on TV in Tyler Perry's BET network and support the family than Harry finding what to do. And I don't see why William would even consider Harry for any project he is involved in the UK just to give him something to occupy him with. The point of the Homewards Project is not to help Harry pay for his home in California but to help people in need of homes in the UK. The Royal Family has moved on and away from H & M already.

 

[4Pam]

I used to be a fan of theirs at the beginning, but they're just old news with the incessant whining. Then airing out all the unhappiness that they have with the family. Everything about it and how they handled themselves is just childish. They behave like children, then treat them as such.

 

[Toledo]

I used to be a fan of theirs at the beginning, but they're just old news with the incessant whining. Then airing out all the unhappiness that they have with the family. Everything about it and how they handled themselves is just childish. They behave like children, then treat them as such.

The Queen did everything possible to make Meghan be part of the family and the UK. She took her on the road with her and send the couple on a Pacific tour to represent her majesty. And she was the star of every event, yet it was not enough for them. They had the potential for greatness and squander it away with pettiness. I was team Meghan 100% until I came to my senses and noticed something at the wedding. None of her mother's extended family were present and only key celebrities she targeted and barely or didn't even know them.

That was the start of the ugly side coming out like a bad Power Point marketing plan by numbers: meet the rich prince, wedding, network and leave for the USA to make money off a British title.

 

[shady lady]

If Prince Harry should ever return to the UK, for whatever reason, I think a role in his brother’s new Homewards project would be a good fit. Homelessness is a problem plaguing many veterans, and this is Harry’s niche.

If Prince Harry returned to the UK he would probably find all doors closed or a very cold reception from his family. Let's think about it: he insulted his dad's wife, his brother and his wife even questioning their parental skills. He insulted the nation that embraced his wife, as if they wrote the tabloids themselves. No apologies but quick to demand them from his family.

Prediction: When William becomes king, I won't be surprised he does everything possible to state that all their titles end with Harry, nontransferable. This is not a 'let's help Harry find a job' competition. He made his choice and burned every bridge behind down to the ground to a point of no return. Why would William of King Charles be expected to welcome back such an ungrateful man-child and find him something to do in the UK?

At this point the reality is Meghan has better chance of finding work on TV in Tyler Perry's BET network and support the family than Harry finding what to do. And I don't see why William would even consider Harry for any project he is involved in the UK just to give him something to occupy him with. The point of the Homewards Project is not to help Harry pay for his home in California but to help people in need of homes in the UK. The Royal Family has moved on and away from H & M already.

I think the key issue here is trust. How could William ever trust Harry again after everything that has happened? Harry is clearly emotionally immature and has issues he may not want or be able to resolve. What if he betrayed William and the BRF again?

Harry could have done so much to support William in this new venture especially in terms of helping veterans - a missed opportunity. On the other hand, considering the hard work involved, William may feel he is better off doing this alone.

 

[suztav]

The Queen did everything possible to make Meghan be part of the family and the UK. She took her on the road with her and send the couple on a Pacific tour to represent her majesty. And she was the star of every event, yet it was not enough for them. They had the potential for greatness and squander it away with pettiness. I was team Meghan 100% until I came to my senses and noticed something at the wedding. None of her mother's extended family were present and only key celebrities she targeted and barely or didn't even know them.

That was the start of the ugly side coming out like a bad Power Point marketing plan by numbers: meet the rich prince, wedding, network and leave for the USA to make money off a British title.

Toledo you are spot on about Meghan’s wedding guest list as a major red flag. She didn’t even know those people — with the exception of Serena Williams.

To be honest, I could get over the fact that her mother was her only family member of the Quire wasn’t loaded with movie stars. Many families have issues and fractures. You never know. But the fact that she invited people who she didn’t even know and seated them upfront.

Big red flag!

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

Wasn't it confirmed that Meghan's american team were working on the Sussex Royal website without knowledge of the RF and their UK team. It doesn't read as if it was written by British person - especially the idea of working with the Queen etc

Quite right, tommy100. Valentine Low's book details this.

How is that a "confirmation"?

 

[Granada]

Another thing i thought terrible, very hard hearted about Meghan came out in the Netflix documentary. It was her lovely niece Ashleigh's appearance in it. I hadn't known anything about her.
Ashleigh is Samantha's daughter, an attorney and is also estranged from her too. Well Ashleigh and Meghan talked about their relationship in the series and how they started to reconnect around 2007. Nice, easy, close relationship and sometimes traveled together.

Well Ashleigh talked about how hurt She was to be told by Meghan and Harry in a phone call that a "Royal Communication Team" ( huh ? how vague) decided that She would NOT be invited to The Wedding. Meghan clearly then stated that "THE GUIDANCE AT THE TIME WAS NOT TO HAVE HER COME THE WEDDING". Due to the continuing controversy - drama about Samantha, and Her not coming.

Interestingly enough, THAT TIDBIT was one of the few times Buckingham Palace spoke out and pushed back, thru sources. It was reported that it was entirely The Sussex's decision about personal guests. Aides actually thought it would look far better for more actual Family members to be there.

Which makes perfect sense to me. Doesn't ring true at all. Meghan was really careful in her wording using " the guidance" .VERY CLEVERLY not naming anyone or particular agency.

Just another disturbing detail for me. How absolutely ruthless Meghan can be. Her OWN actions and then HOW She justifies them.

I think then Queen, Charles and William knew all that AND so very much more than any of us.

As I have said before, *part* of me is glad that Elizabeth and Philip were not alive for the The Docu-series and Spare. I think they would have been so hurt, just so wounded by Harry's actions and allegations. Philip WAS gone by then, but the expectation was that QEll would still be there for the fallout. I guess it was a mercy that neither was.

As I said, ruthless is a word I think about the pair of them now.......

 

[Magnolia471]

Another thing i thought terrible, very hard hearted about Meghan came out in the Netflix documentary. It was her lovely niece Ashleigh's appearance in it. I hadn't known anything about her.
Ashleigh is Samantha's daughter, an attorney and is also estranged from her too. Well Ashleigh and Meghan talked about their relationship in the series and how they started to reconnect around 2007. Nice, easy, close relationship and sometimes traveled together.

Well Ashleigh talked about how hurt She was to be told by Meghan and Harry in a phone call that a "Royal Communication Team" ( huh ? how vague) decided that She would NOT be invited to The Wedding. Meghan clearly then stated that "THE GUIDANCE AT THE TIME WAS NOT TO HAVE HER COME THE WEDDING". Due to the continuing controversy - drama about Samantha, and Her not coming.

Interestingly enough, THAT TIDBIT was one of the few times Buckingham Palace spoke out and pushed back, thru sources. It was reported that it was entirely The Sussex's decision about personal guests. Aides actually thought it would look far better for more actual Family members to be there.

Which makes perfect sense to me. Doesn't ring true at all. Meghan was really careful in her wording using " the guidance" .VERY CLEVERLY not naming anyone or particular agency.

Just another disturbing detail for me. How absolutely ruthless Meghan can be. Her OWN actions and then HOW She justifies them.

I think then Queen, Charles and William knew all that AND so very much more than any of us.

As I have said before, *part* of me is glad that Elizabeth and Philip were not alive for the The Docu-series and Spare. I think they would have been so hurt, just so wounded by Harry's actions and allegations. Philip WAS gone by then, but the expectation was that QEll would still be there for the fallout. I guess it was a mercy that neither was.

As I said, ruthless is a word I think about the pair of them now.......

Exactly, they claim to be so close but Ashley wasn't invited to her first baby shower that took place in New York and neither to her second one that took place in California.
Honestly, I suspect Meghan included Ashley just to throw shade to Samantha since they are estranged and prove to others how unstable is her family.

 

[mothrpoet]

If Prince Harry returned to the UK he would probably find all doors closed or a very cold reception from his family. Let's think about it: he insulted his dad's wife, his brother and his wife even questioning their parental skills. He insulted the nation that embraced his wife, as if they wrote the tabloids themselves. No apologies but quick to demand them from his family.

Prediction: When William becomes king, I won't be surprised he does everything possible to state that all their titles end with Harry, nontransferable. This is not a 'let's help Harry find a job' competition. He made his choice and burned every bridge behind down to the ground to a point of no return. Why would William of King Charles be expected to welcome back such an ungrateful man-child and find him something to do in the UK?

At this point the reality is Meghan has better chance of finding work on TV in Tyler Perry's BET network and support the family than Harry finding what to do. And I don't see why William would even consider Harry for any project he is involved in the UK just to give him something to occupy him with. The point of the Homewards Project is not to help Harry pay for his home in California but to help people in need of homes in the UK. The Royal Family has moved on and away from H & M already.

I agree that Harry’s titles should be engineered to end with him, not passed along to offspring. However, I think Charles should take a page from Queen Margarethe of Denmark’s book! In an interview, she stated that she felt it important that SHE be the one to downgrade the titles of her younger son, Joachim’s, children and not leave that “unpleasant “ duty to her heir, Frederik. Charles should issue the Letters Patent so that William can start his reign free of the Sussex “issue.”

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I am not sure if this reply of mine ought to be posted here or in the British titles thread; please move if appropriate.

I agree that Harry’s titles should be engineered to end with him, not passed along to offspring. However, I think Charles should take a page from Queen Margarethe of Denmark’s book! In an interview, she stated that she felt it important that SHE be the one to downgrade the titles of her younger son, Joachim’s, children and not leave that “unpleasant “ duty to her heir, Frederik. Charles should issue the Letters Patent so that William can start his reign free of the Sussex “issue.”

Given that King Charles III has agreed to the Sussex children possessing as well as using royal titles (it was his choice to make, as George V's 1917 letters patent are not binding on subsequent monarchs, in the same way that earlier monarchs' decisions on royal titles were not binding on George V), I see no good reason* why he should not offer the Earl of Snowdon and Lady Sarah Chatto, Peter Phillips and Zara Tindall, and any future children of Princess Charlotte the option of taking on royal titles.

Snowdon, Sarah, Peter, Zara, and Charlotte's potential future children are as much grandchildren of a monarch as Archie and Lilibet. The fact that they are private non-working members of the royal family should be no impediment because Prince Archie and Princess Lilibet are not expected to become public working members of the royal family, either.

*I do not consider "But Prince Harry is a man and Princesses Margaret, Anne, and Charlotte are only women" to be a good reason. I am aware that the majority believes it is.

 

[kimebear]

Snowdon, Sarah, Peter, Zara, and Charlotte's potential future children are as much grandchildren of a monarch as Archie and Lilibet.

Princess Ann didn't want titles for her children, and not even the Duke of Edinburgh's children use their rightful titles.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

and not even the Duke of Edinburgh's children use their rightful titles.

The majority opinion seems to be that they would be entitled to use royal titles if they chose. If that is not the case, then my previous post would apply to them also.

Princess Ann didn't want titles for her children,

Yes, but that does not change the fact that as far as has been reported, Queen Elizabeth II (the monarch at the time) never offered royal titles for Princess Anne's children, and that was because of the princess's gender. (Please note that my previous post stated "the option".)

 

[Granada]

Well the knocks just keep on coming. Another influential Hollywood insider has slammed Meghan in the wake of the cancelled Spotify Contract.
Jeremy Zimmer, a longtime Entertainment Honcho and Chief Executive of United Talent Agency said recently that he wasn't surprised that Spotify "ditched the couple".

Stating that "Meghan Markle was not a great audio talent OR NECESSARILY ANY KIND OF TALENT" .... OUCH !

I looked him up, and his ties to Hollywood are about as deep as can be.
His grandfather was the legendary writer, director and producer Dore Schary, one of the last "greats" as Head of Production at MGM. Unfortunately during his tenure in the 1950's, Television EXPLODED and the Movies and profits were rocked dramatically. Which led to his being ousted.

Anyways, I really do wonder what the Sussex's make of all this? With THEM, not The Royal Family, being the recipients of spiteful criticism and insults?
From Hollywood insiders no less ?
I'm honestly wondering IF they can turn all this negative press around.

 

[southwind]

The difference is that all of them are more than a royal title, so they don't care, but Harry isn't.

 

[kimebear]

Yes, but that does not change the fact that as far as has been reported, Queen Elizabeth II (the monarch at the time) never offered royal titles for Princess Anne's children, and that was because of the princess's gender. (Please note that my previous post stated "the option".)

I'm not sure if the source below is allowed in this thread or not, so apologies if it is not considered credible. I use it as it contains quotes from Princess Anne and Zara re: titles.

It has long been established that Princess Anne's first husband turned down the offer of an earldom, which would have given Peter and Zara titles, albeit not royal ones since a Princess can't pass hers down. Which worked out, since Zara herself says that their lives were much more normal without being titled as the children of an Earl, so why would they now want to be royal??

On the other hand, it was clear early on that royal titles for the Sussex children were very important to Harry and Meghan, with pointed remarks regarding them being made during the infamous Oprah interview.

However, it all becomes mute for the Sussexes after Archie and Lilibet and any other children H&M have since their children will never be Princes/Princesses anyway.


https://www.express.co.uk/news/roya...s-royal-family-zara-tindall-Meghan-markle-spt

 

[Tatiana Maria]

albeit not royal ones since a Princess can't pass hers down.

Yes, that is what I was saying: Queen Elizabeth II did not offer royal titles to Princess Anne's children, and her reason for not doing so was that Anne was a woman.

Perhaps I missed the point of your original response to me. Could you please clarify?

 

[Alison H]

Royal titles are not a plate of biscuits! The monarch can't just "offer" them. They come by either birth or marriage - and, whilst it may now be considered unfair, that can only be through a father or through a woman's husband. The Queen could have made Mark Phillips a duke or an earl, had he and Princess Anne so desired, but she couldn't have "offered" to make their children princes and princesses or "offered" them the style of HRH - or not without amending the Letters Patent of 1917.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Royal titles are not a plate of biscuits! The monarch can't just "offer" them. They come by either birth or marriage - and, whilst it may now be considered unfair, that can only be through a father or through a woman's husband. The Queen could have made Mark Phillips a duke or an earl, had he and Princess Anne so desired, but she couldn't have "offered" to make their children princes and princesses or "offered" them the style of HRH - or not without amending the Letters Patent of 1917.

Monarchs can (and in fact have, in the case of male-line grandchildren etc.) "just offer" royal titles. Whether or not Elizabeth II would have needed to amend, repeal or overrule the Letters Patent of 1917, it was fully within her power to do so (just as she did in 2012, and just as it is fully within the power of King Charles III to do so now).

Again, just as George V was not legally prevented by prior monarchs' letters patent, royal warrants, etc. from making his own changes in 1917, his letters patent cannot bind subsequent monarchs.