Prince William and Catherine Middleton Possible Titles

[CrownPrincess5]

Why is she styled Catherine now??
Is it a must that she can't use her nickname?

 

[Lumutqueen]

It isn't a must.
But the press announced that she will officially be known as Catherine. Which is her name.

 

[muriel]

If he wanted to be a Duke, surely he would have been made one when he married, rather than an Earl.
They have shown that the family want a quiet life, and being a Duke and Duchess of wherever might not have allowed them to lead a quiet life.

I have no actual basis for what I said.

At the time that the title of Earl of Wessex was bestowed upon Edward, it was also announced that it was intended, following the death of his parents, that Edward would be created Duke of Edinburgh. If was also reported at the time that BP did not want to create another ducal title for Edward.

They have shown that the family want a quiet life, and being a Duke and Duchess of wherever might not have allowed them to lead a quiet life.

I am not sure that the "quiet life" might be materially impacted by a ducal title as opposed to an earldom.

 

[Lady Marmalade]

Ok...well..actually, When Prince Philip dies the title goes to Charles, his oldest son. When Charles becomes King, the title would merge into the crown and he could create it again for Edward.

Diana was always incorrectly called Princess Di or Princess Diana, more so here in the states.

Unless the Queen offers, and Williams accepts, another title based on a Dukedom, Earldom, etc... she will be HRH Princess William of Wales.

 

[Sister Morphine]

Do you have any basis for suggesting that Edward asked to be created an Earl and not a Duke?

Wasn't it reported that he said he wanted to be styled as an Earl because he didn't want his children burdened with the expectations/duties that come with a senior title, like that of his nieces and nephews? I've read that here more than a few times, in fact. Of course legally his children are HRH Princess Louise and HRH Prince James, as there no letters patent to state otherwise, but they were styled according to their father's wishes in accordance with his own style as an Earl. Had he been given a Dukedom like his brother Andrew was, his children would have been HRH Prince/Princess from the outset.

 

[Duchess of Durham]

Ok...well..actually, When Prince Philip dies the title goes to Charles, his oldest son. When Charles becomes King, the title would merge into the crown and he could create it again for Edward.

Diana was always incorrectly called Princess Di or Princess Diana, more so here in the states.

Unless the Queen offers, and Williams accepts, another title based on a Dukedom, Earldom, etc... she will be HRH Princess William of Wales.

If William is offered a dukedom and accepts, would Catherine's "official" title be HRH Princess Catherine Duchess of _______?

 

[Lumutqueen]

If William is offered a dukedom and accepts, would Catherine's "official" title be HRH Princess Catherine Duchess of _______?

No because she is not a Princess in her own right.
She would be Catherine, Duchess of Wherever.
Or HRH Princess William of Wales.

 

[Sister Morphine]

If William is offered a dukedom and accepts, would Catherine's "official" title be HRH Princess Catherine Duchess of _______?

No. She's not a Princess in her own right, unlike Maxima of the Netherlands. If William is offered a dukedom, her official title would be HRH The Duchess of ______ just like when Sarah Ferguson married Prince Andrew. If he's NOT offered a dukedom, she will be HRH Princess William of Wales.

The only women who are allowed to use the word "princess" before their given names are women made princesses in their own right or women who are princesses of the blood royal.

 

[Iluvbertie]

No because she is not a Princess in her own right.
She would be Catherine, Duchess of Wherever.
Or HRH Princess William of Wales.

She would NOT be Catherine, Duchess of Whatever unless they are divorced.

She would be HRH The Duchess of Whatever.

Catherine won't figure in her official names from marriage until William becomes King. She loses that identify officially on marriage.

If no title is given she would be HRH Princess William of Wales. On Charles' accession she will automatically become HRH The Duchess of Cornwall, The Duchess of Rothesay etc. If William is created Prince of Wales then she would become HRH The Princess of Wales and Countess of Chester (Earl of Chester is usually also used with the Prince of Wales title).

 

[Duchess of Durham]

Can the Queen create a princedom?

 

[Iluvbertie]

Can the Queen create a princedom?

The only principality is Wales and the Queen gave that title to Charles in 1958.

 

[Krisotter]

The only principality is Wales and the Queen gave that title to Charles in 1958.

But E2R did create her husband, by letters patent, a Prince of the United Kingdom after she became Queen.

In theory it's possible, but I doubt she'll do the same for Catherine.

 

[Iluvbertie]

But E2R did create her husband, by letters patent, a Prince of the United Kingdom after she became Queen.

In theory it's possible, but I doubt she'll do the same for Catherine.

The difference was though that Philip didn't automatically get any title on his marriage to Elizabeth so he needed titles to be given to him by Letters Patent - initially in 1947 and then again in 1957. If no titles had been given to Philip then he would have remained Mr Mountbatten (as he had given up his birthright to be HRH Prince Philip of Greece and Denmark).

William though is already a Prince so Kate will become a Princess on marriage and thus there is no need to create her one in her own right as she will become one on marriage. In addition is the marriage fails and she has been created a Princess in her own right then she walks away from the marraige as a Princess but if the marries fails she loses the HRH (as happened with Diana and Sarah).

 

[Krisotter]

True, though the DoE got the HRH from her father upon their marriage, so the two (Prince and HRH) don't have to (theoretically, at least) go hand in hand.
We'll see what E2R does with this couple, including PW's possible peerage. So many possibilities...

 

[Iluvbertie]

True, though the DoE got the HRH from her father upon their marriage, so the two (Prince and HRH) don't have to (theoretically, at least) go hand in hand.

Philip didn't get HRH automatically but by LPs whereas Kate will get it automactically.

Philip, being male, couldn't get anything from his wife.

Kate, being female, will get titles etc from her husband.

Totally sexist of course but that is the way it is.

 

[Sister Morphine]

I personally don't think the Queen will grant William a dukedom when he gets married. For starters, he's the heir of the heir, not the next in line. For seconds, he's still completing his RAF training and he and Catherine will be living in Wales while he does that, he won't be doing any official duties for the family yet (I don't believe). When Charles ascends the throne, William will become the Duke of Cornwall automatically, so that will be his title before or until Charles chooses to create him the Prince of Wales.

She'll be HRH Princess William of Wales and that will be enough until William becomes the heir to the throne, I feel.

 

[Iluvbertie]

He already does some royal duties. The most recent of which was last Sunday in Afghanistan.

The precedent would be George V, and his older brother. They were both given dukedoms in their own right when on the poistion William is now - the heir to the heir. George spent most of 1901 known as The Duke of Cornwall and York (and it was under those titles that he opened the Australian parliament on 9th May that year.

 

[LadyNemesis]

In my opinion HM The Queen should create HRH The Prince William, The Duke of Clarence and St. Andrews. The last person to hold this title was King William IV, and it was given to him while he was the grandson of the reigning King. The bonus is that St. Andrews holds special meaning to both William and Kate

 

[Zonk]

Well, she can't use St. Andrews as the Duke of Kent son, is currently the Earl of St. Andrews. That's pretty much out.

I think she will use Cambridge or Sussex. The last time Clarence and Avondale were used it was for Prince Albert Victor of Wales. The eldest son of Edward VII and Queen Alexandra who died. His brother, the Duke of York became George V.

 

[Iluvbertie]

In my opinion HM The Queen should create HRH The Prince William, The Duke of Clarence and St. Andrews. The last person to hold this title was King William IV, and it was given to him while he was the grandson of the reigning King. The bonus is that St. Andrews holds special meaning to both William and Kate

The Duke of Clarence I can see but St Andrews is already in use within the Royal Family by the Earl of St Andrews - heir to the Duke of Kent.

William isn't The Prince William - yet. He won't be that until Charles is King.

Only the children of the monarch (and the consort of a Queen Regnant) are ''The Prince/Princess" so we currently have 5 people who have the right to use 'The' in front of their style of Prince/Princess - Philip, Charles, Anne, Andrew and Edward, as they are Princes/Princess of the UK specifically. The other Princes and Princesses have 'of xxx' to describe their princely title e.g. William and Harry of Wales, Beatrice and Eugenie of York, Richard of Gloucester, Edward, Michael and Alexandra of Kent.

 

[CasiraghiTrio]

Does william have to be granted a dukedom?

What about an earldom?

or the 'in between'? Marquis/marquess?

 

[Zonk]

I think William will be granted a dukedom (just my personal opinion) because of his position...the heirs heir.

If not, considering that the BRF is aiming to scale back...I would imagine he would be a Earl or something like that.

Just think, after this...Kate will be the 3rd lady in the land in order of precedence.

 

[texankitcat]

Just wanted to say this is a fascinating discussion. It makes sense that William would remain Prince William and Catherine styled as Princess William since he will inherit his father's titles when Prince Charles becomes King. The Queen is in excellent health, but she IS 84. In 16 more years she will be 100. I can't imagine that she will be able to handle her duties too many more years.

 

[Zonk]

I was speaking with a friend, and we agreed that we can see Charles and Camilla (as well as Anne) doing more on the homefront in place of HM and the DoE as they are getting older.

William and Catherine as TRH the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge will pick up more of the internatinal travel (its not a lot) and help fill the gap. Once they get past Williams RAF work.

 

[Zonk]

He already does some royal duties. The most recent of which was last Sunday in Afghanistan.

The precedent would be George V, and his older brother. They were both given dukedoms in their own right when on the poistion William is now - the heir to the heir. George spent most of 1901 known as ZThe Duke of Cornwall and York (and it was under those titles that he opened the Australian parliament on 9th May that year.

Also, George VI was created the Duke of York in what 1923? Of course, the anticipation was that Edward would become King but alas we know what happened in 1936, and the York titled merged with the crown until 1986.

What will be interesting is with the deaths of the Duke of Kent and Gloucester (not that I am looking forward to it), those titles won't be a part of the next generation of Royal men carrying the HRH title.

 

[Thena]

I believe that the Queen will find some dukedom to grant to William. It is still a tradition for a dukedom to be conferred upon marriage, and it will give William and Kate a more distinctive title.

As for Kate getting the title of Princess on her own merits, it is theoretically possible with an issue of Letters Patent but I think you'd see pigs taking off and landing at Heathrow before that happens. It's very rare as far as the British monarchy is concerned.

 

[Sister Morphine]

I cannot think of any non-royal who married into the family receiving the title of "princess" in her own right. Maybe the first Duchess of Gloucester? Didn't the Queen grant her permission to go by Princess Alice to differentiate from her daughter-in-law, who was also the Duchess of Gloucester?

 

[Zonk]

I cannot think of any non-royal who married into the family receiving the title of "princess" in her own right. Maybe the first Duchess of Gloucester? Didn't the Queen grant her permission to go by Princess Alice to differentiate from her daughter-in-law, who was also the Duchess of Gloucester?

Yes, but she only did that as courtesy following the death of the late Duke of Glouester. She also did it for Princess Marina to differentiate between the new Duchess of Kent. But Marina was a Princess in her own right.

The late Princess Alice was a beloved Aunt who had dedicated many years to the crown. The Queen was also a bridesmaid in her wedding.

So I can't see that happening for Kate. Liek previously stated...the British don't tend to do that. I know Maxima (as well as Mathilde) were made Princesses in their own right. The Queen holds her cards close to the chest. That's not happening.

 

[Thena]

The Queen probably wouldn't do it. Charles or William would probably do it if Kate put in a lot of dedicated service to the crown, but it would be a moot point. She'll automatically become Duchess of Cornwall when Charles ascends and Queen when William ascends.

 

[Iluvbertie]

If she didn't give her daughters-in-law the title of Princess in their own right she won't give it to a grand-daughter.
Diana, Sarah, Sophie and Camilla have all married the Queen's own sons without becoming Princesses in their own right but becoming HRH Princess Charles/Andrew or Edward.

The only Prince title the Queen has granted by LPs was to Philip and he is the consort of the monarch.
She allowed the Dowager Duchess of Gloucester to be known as Princess Alice after the death of her husband.

Other than that the only princesses first name during the present Queen's reign have been Margaret, Anne, Alexandra, Beatrice and Eugenie with Marina keeping her title of Princess Marina of Greece and Denmark although never a Princess of the UK in her own right.

I don't see any need for the Queen to change tradition simply for Kate. She would have to do so for Camilla and Sophie at the same time and could you imagine the outcry if Camilla was officially Princess Camilla a title never given to Diana?