Titles and Styles of the Sussex Family 1

[Tatiana Maria]

I'll continue this in the general thread on British titles and styles.

https://www.theroyalforums.com/foru...-titles-3-aug-2023-a-50398-3.html#post2595994

 

[soapstar]

In this video the Sussexes are introduced as HRH’s. I thought that they were no longer going to use HRH?

Celebritybox9ja on Instagram: "Prince Harry and wife Meghan arrive the SIT OUT WITH THE DUKE & DUCHESS OF SUSSEX Reception. CHIEF HOST: GENERAL CG MUSA CHIEF OF DEFENCE STAFF #harryandmeghaninnigeria #invictusgames #celebritybox9ja"

12 likes, 0 comments - celebritybox9ja on May 11, 2024: "Prince Harry and wife Meghan arrive the SIT OUT WITH THE DUKE & DUCHESS OF SUSSEX Reception. CHIEF HOST: GENERAL CG MUSA CHIEF OF DEFENCE STAFF #harryandmeghaninnigeria #invictusgames #celebritybox9ja".

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[MonacoRoyalFan]

In this video they’re introduced as HRH’s. I thought that they were no longer going to use HRH?

Celebritybox9ja on Instagram: "Prince Harry and wife Meghan arrive the SIT OUT WITH THE DUKE & DUCHESS OF SUSSEX Reception. CHIEF HOST: GENERAL CG MUSA CHIEF OF DEFENCE STAFF #harryandmeghaninnigeria #invictusgames #celebritybox9ja"

12 likes, 0 comments - celebritybox9ja on May 11, 2024: "Prince Harry and wife Meghan arrive the SIT OUT WITH THE DUKE & DUCHESS OF SUSSEX Reception. CHIEF HOST: GENERAL CG MUSA CHIEF OF DEFENCE STAFF #harryandmeghaninnigeria #invictusgames #celebritybox9ja".

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Not at all their fault if someone introduces them as such but I did notice this too and it peaked my interest.

 

[HenRach Dominion]

In this video they’re introduced as HRH’s. I thought that they were no longer going to use HRH?

Celebritybox9ja on Instagram: "Prince Harry and wife Meghan arrive the SIT OUT WITH THE DUKE & DUCHESS OF SUSSEX Reception. CHIEF HOST: GENERAL CG MUSA CHIEF OF DEFENCE STAFF #harryandmeghaninnigeria #invictusgames #celebritybox9ja"

12 likes, 0 comments - celebritybox9ja on May 11, 2024: "Prince Harry and wife Meghan arrive the SIT OUT WITH THE DUKE & DUCHESS OF SUSSEX Reception. CHIEF HOST: GENERAL CG MUSA CHIEF OF DEFENCE STAFF #harryandmeghaninnigeria #invictusgames #celebritybox9ja".

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The original announcement about TRH The Sussexes’ HRH was that they still retain it, but they have agreed not to use it (which they haven’t). It doesn’t say anything about other people using their HRH when addressing them, only that TRH The Sussexes couldn’t use it.

 

[soapstar]

Here is the actual wording from the announcement: “The Sussexes will not use their HRH titles as they are no longer working members of the Royal Family.”

Since the Sussexes were involved in planning this trip, they should have made sure that TRH wasn’t used. It’s something that their team should have clearly communicated to the hosts of these events. Especially since they know people would compare it to a royal tour.

 

[HenRach Dominion]

Here is the actual wording from the announcement: “The Sussexes will not use their HRH titles as they are no longer working members of the Royal Family.”

Since the Sussexes were involved in planning this trip, they should have made sure that TRH wasn’t used. It’s something that their team should have clearly communicated to the hosts of these events. Especially since they know people would compare it to a royal tour.

Thank you for providing the exact quote. As it clearly states, TRH The Sussexes themselves will not use the HRH. And they haven't since they've left the BRF as working members. If other people want to refer to them as HRH, they're not wrong to do so. Although the HRH does signify that they are working members of the BRF, the communication above only states that HRH The Duke of Sussex and HRH The Duchess of Sussex will not use it. It does not ban anyone else from doing so. If the BRF wanted a more universal ban on the use of HRH for TRH The Sussexes, then the communication should have been more along the lines of "The Sussexes' HRH titles will not be used" or "The Sussexes will no longer be referred to by their HRH titles."

 

[FigTree]

Thank you for providing the exact quote. As it clearly states, TRH The Sussexes themselves will not use the HRH. And they haven't since they've left the BRF as working members. If other people want to refer to them as HRH, they're not wrong to do so. Although the HRH does signify that they are working members of the BRF, the communication above only states that HRH The Duke of Sussex and HRH The Duchess of Sussex will not use it. It does not ban anyone else from doing so. If the BRF wanted a more universal ban on the use of HRH for TRH The Sussexes, then the communication should have been more along the lines of "The Sussexes' HRH titles will not be used" or "The Sussexes will no longer be referred to by their HRH titles."

They should not refer to themselves as it and as such no-one else should. This should have been made clear. You don't refer to someone by a name or title when you have been informed that it is dormant. For instance, married women being a prime example, some use their own name, some their married, some both depending on situation, others a double barrel...whatever you always follow what you have been asked in referring to them. Harry and Megjan shouldn't be referred to using it.

 

[HenRach Dominion]

They should not refer to themselves as it and as such no-one else should. This should have been made clear. You don't refer to someone by a name or title when you have been informed that it is dormant. For instance, married women being a prime example, some use their own name, some their married, some both depending on situation, others a double barrel...whatever you always follow what you have been asked in referring to them. Harry and Megjan shouldn't be referred to using it.

It should have been made clear in the original communication that their HRH shouldn’t be used by anyone and not just TRH The Sussexes themselves, and it’s neither TRH The Sussexes’ nor their hosts’ fault. Where in the original statement does it say that no one can use TRH The Sussexes HRH other than the couple themselves…actually, never mind. This is getting circular. We just have to agree to disagree.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Thank you for providing the exact quote. As it clearly states, TRH The Sussexes themselves will not use the HRH. And they haven't since they've left the BRF as working members. If other people want to refer to them as HRH, they're not wrong to do so. Although the HRH does signify that they are working members of the BRF, the communication above only states that HRH The Duke of Sussex and HRH The Duchess of Sussex will not use it. It does not ban anyone else from doing so. If the BRF wanted a more universal ban on the use of HRH for TRH The Sussexes, then the communication should have been more along the lines of "The Sussexes' HRH titles will not be used" or "The Sussexes will no longer be referred to by their HRH titles."

You are absolutely correct about the content of the statement, but it may be worth adding that it formed part of the public announcement of an agreement between Queen Elizabeth II and the Duke and Duchess of Sussex about "a constructive and supportive way forward for my grandson and his family" (i.e., their exit as working royals) which was "agreed" by the couple "following many months of conversations and more recent discussions" with the senior members of their family. Since the only parties to the agreement were the Sussexes and other members of the Royal Family, the absence of any instructions to members of the public or foreign governments on how to treat or address the Sussexes in the public announcement was, in my view, simply because they were not part of the agreement. Which is also in keeping with the palace's general practice: For example, when HRH Prince Henry of Wales was created a peer on his wedding day, an announcement was issued, but there was no specific command to the public to begin addressing him as HRH The Duke of Sussex.

Statement from Her Majesty The Queen

Following many months of conversations and more recent discussions, I am pleased that together we have found a constructive and supportive way forward for my...

www.royal.uk

 

[Erin9]

They should not refer to themselves as it and as such no-one else should. This should have been made clear. You don't refer to someone by a name or title when you have been informed that it is dormant. For instance, married women being a prime example, some use their own name, some their married, some both depending on situation, others a double barrel...whatever you always follow what you have been asked in referring to them. Harry and Megjan shouldn't be referred to using it.

IMO- if you’re agreeing not to use HRH anymore, then obviously no one else should either. That’s just so clear in my mind that I don’t see why it needed to be spelled out. It’s stating the obvious.

However- I’m not surprised others are using HRH for PR purposes. And it certainly doesn’t bother Harry and Meghan because they made it very clear how unhappy they were to no longer be able to use HRH and royal. So- I’m sure they’re thrilled. How long has it been since Meghan has stepped foot in the UK anyway?! Lol

 

[Tatiana Maria]

It is somewhat surprising because , so far., Meghan had styled herself in the USA as "Meghan, The Duchess of Sussex", which suggests to me that she is mindful of the divorcee style.

I don't think, however, that this is a subtle message that she is seeking a divorce. Most likely she hired someone to handle her social media accounts and that person was not knowledgeable of British titles and styles.

The couple's official website was also edited to replace "Meghan, The Duchess of Sussex" with "Meghan, Duchess of Sussex", seemingly shortly before or in tandem with the launch of her lifestyle show. I won't speculate as to the reasons, but it seems to be an intentional change of her professional/brand name.

Before
After

 

[Hallo girl]

The couple's official website was also edited to replace "Meghan, The Duchess of Sussex" with "Meghan, Duchess of Sussex", seemingly shortly before or in tandem with the launch of her lifestyle show. I won't speculate as to the reasons, but it seems to be an intentional change of her professional/brand name.

Before
After

I do not think this was an error on anybody’s part. Nothing happens by chance in Meghans World , it will become obvious at a later date.

 

[Hallo girl]

I do not think this was an error on anybody’s part. Nothing happens by chance in Meghans World , it will become obvious at a later date.

Responding to my own post, if nothing else we are talking about her. It served its purpose.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I should add that the Duke's name on the couple's official website was edited in the same manner, so that he is now "Prince Harry, Duke of Sussex" instead of "Prince Harry, The Duke of Sussex".

 

[Hallo girl]

I should add that the Duke's name on the couple's official website was edited in the same manner, so that he is now "Prince Harry, Duke of Sussex" instead of "Prince Harry, The Duke of Sussex".

That is interesting.

 

[Prinsara]

…to represent his divorce from the BRF and British society generally?

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I can't see an issue with the statement given by the palace source to The Times. Here it is again for context.

However, they [Prince Archie and Princess Lilibet] will not be HRHs. A palace source said: “The use of the style HRH would come through their father and the Duke of Sussex’s HRH is in abeyance.”

Sources close to the Sussexes pointed out that Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie still have their HRHs even though their parents no longer have theirs. The palace argues that that is because they already had their HRHs when their parents lost theirs.​

Palace keeping seat for Harry and Meghan at coronation

Buckingham Palace is planning for the coronation on the assumption that the Duke and Duchess of Sussex will attend the ceremony on May 6, it has emerged.Althoug

www.thetimes.co.uk

Strangely, this quotation has been deleted from the article. But why? Did the "palace source" realize they were in error and retract their comment? But if the original comment stating that Archie and Lilibet were (like their parents) not permitted to use their HRHs was incorrect, then why wasn't a new comment issued to state that the King will allow Archie and Lilibet to use their HRHs?

For reference, the 2020 palace announcement stated: "The Sussexes will not use their HRH titles as they are no longer working members of the Royal Family."

 

[Tatiana Maria]

In this video the Sussexes are introduced as HRH’s. I thought that they were no longer going to use HRH?

Celebritybox9ja on Instagram: "Prince Harry and wife Meghan arrive the SIT OUT WITH THE DUKE & DUCHESS OF SUSSEX Reception. CHIEF HOST: GENERAL CG MUSA CHIEF OF DEFENCE STAFF #harryandmeghaninnigeria #invictusgames #celebritybox9ja"

12 likes, 0 comments - celebritybox9ja on May 11, 2024: "Prince Harry and wife Meghan arrive the SIT OUT WITH THE DUKE & DUCHESS OF SUSSEX Reception. CHIEF HOST: GENERAL CG MUSA CHIEF OF DEFENCE STAFF #harryandmeghaninnigeria #invictusgames #celebritybox9ja".

www.instagram.com

The announcement of the January 2020 agreement between the Sussexes and the senior royals read:

The Sussexes will not use their HRH titles as they are no longer working members of the Royal Family.​

After a similar recent event (the Vice President of Ukraine addressed a thank-you letter to the Duke of Sussex as “Your Royal Highness”, then the Duchess of Sussex posted the letter on her Instagram), three acquaintances of the royal family complained about it anonymously to reporter Tom Sykes of the Daily Beast:

Buckingham Palace declined to comment, but a friend of King Charles III told The Daily Beast that he would be dismayed at Markle posting a screengrab to Instagram of a message from a senior Ukrainian’s vice prime minister, Yulia Svyrydenko, that began, “Your Royal Highness, I would like to express my sincere thanks for everything your family is doing for Ukraine.”

“It’s outrageous. Every time you think they can’t make it worse, they make it worse,” the friend of the king said. “The deal with the HRH was a way to stop them cashing in while letting them walk away with pride and dignity and trust, and now Markle is using her HRH on a website which seems to exist to sell jam.”

“They say they want reconciliation,” the source added. “I’m sure the king’s first reaction will be dismay, but he simply doesn’t allow himself to get angry about things like this anymore.”

A friend of Prince William’s said: “It’s actually quite a clever way of testing the water, because there is deniability there, she can say, ‘Well, I just wanted to publish this nice letter to raise awareness for Ukraine, and oops! they got my name wrong—but oh, actually, now I think of it, I never gave the title up anyway, and maybe I will start using it again.‘"

“It’s a step in the wrong direction, basically, away from the agreement. You’d have to be an idiot to believe that she didn’t know exactly what she was doing when she posted that message, unedited, to her stories.”

An expert in heraldry who knows the family told The Daily Beast: “There were plenty of people at the time who said it was a mistake to make not using the title a mere gentleman’s agreement rather than just removing it. This post may not matter in and of itself, but it raises a bigger question: What are they going to do if she simply starts using her HRH again? She probably can’t be stopped as things stand right now. The bottom line is, she is, officially, an HRH. It was never removed.”
​

The offices of the King, the Prince of Wales, and the Duke and Duchess of Sussex did not respond to the reporter’s requests for comment.

I wonder if the “expert in heraldry who knows the family” is an official at the College of Arms, given that the previous head of that agency has spoken on the record in the past about teaching the Duchess of Sussex about British royal titles.


It’s not clear to me if these acquaintances are truly speaking for the King and Prince of Wales, but if they are (or think they are), I am not sure what complaints to a reporter (who sensationalizes the story) are meant to accomplish. If, as these three people believe, the Duchess of Sussex is considering breaking the 2020 agreement and resuming using her HRH, I doubt she will be discouraged by anonymous grumbling to the Daily Beast (especially from the King’s friend calling her “Markle”).

 

[Hallo girl]

If by any chance friends of William and Charles were going to speak to the press, do you really think it would be to the Daily Beast. Anybody can say ' friends of ' source close to the palace etc etc, we have heard it all before. I do not trust anything that is going on just now, there are a great many ' sources ' revealing stuff just now,

 

[HRHHermione]

If by any chance friends of William and Charles were going to speak to the press, do you really think it would be to the Daily Beast. Anybody can say ' friends of ' source close to the palace etc etc, we have heard it all before. I do not trust anything that is going on just now, there are a great many ' sources ' revealing stuff just now,

To be fair, unless I am misremembering, this journalist, Tom Sykes, went to Eton and is fairly socially connected in London. He used to write for the Telegraph. So it’s probably not impossible that he has social connections that would speak to him.

 

[Hallo girl]

To be fair, unless I am misremembering, this journalist, Tom Sykes, went to Eton and is fairly socially connected in London. He used to write for the Telegraph. So it’s probably not impossible that he has social connections that would speak to him.

That is possibly true, I just saw Daily Beast , I was not impressed. maybe I am biased, I still stick with my original thought that there are a great deal of ' sources' revealing stories just now.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

For an update on the Duchess of Sussex's use of her HRH title, see here:

The Duke and Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 10: August 2024 -

They must be beautiful children. Judging by the color of their hair, Harry's genes have come through.

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