Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna: June 2008-


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She is not maybe violent in her speech "defending" the agressive policy of the russian regime but she fully supports the rebuilding of the russian empire.
 
Her visit to Transnistria, the "reward" to the lady from Crimea, her support for the russian regime.
 
I agree that the visit to Transnistria was probably a mistake, and the honour to the Crimean lady probably badly timed. But how does that make her a supporter of Russian aggression? Crimea was always Russian anyway, so no surprises there. Transnistria just seems to be one of those oddities of history and geography of little importance. But Russia's involvement in Ukraine is deadly serious. When and where did the Grand Duchess state that she supports Russia's position. When and where did the Grand Duchess stat that she wants to see the Russian Empire rebuilt?
 
Did you read her statements regarding Ukraine?She never condemn the crimes and the agressions of the russians there.
There is an international law and according to this law Crimea is a part of Ukraine. The annexation of Crimea is illegal and the support of the ex wife pf HRH Prince Franz Wihelm of Prussia for this annexation is a clear proof of her ideas.
 
The tendency of certain posters to switch the way in which they refer to royals, apparently as a way to slight the royal being discussed, is most interesting and says a lot about the lack of understanding on the part of the posters regarding the permanency of protocol. (ex. "Grand Duchess Maria" in February 2014 to "ex-wife of HRH Prince Franz Wilhelm of Prussia" in July 2014, "HRH Crown Princess Margareta, HRH Prince Radu and HRH Prince Nicolae" in March 2014 to "the husband of HRH Princess Margareta" in May 2014 and "Nicholas de Roumanie Medforth-Mills" in July 2014) This pattern seems to betray a noted deficit of politesse in some posters.

Thank you very much for your enlightening and well-sourced posts, Chubb Fuddler. The information and accuracy that you bring to the discussion is most welcome as well as a nice change of pace for the discussion of Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna and her activities in her capacity as Head of the Imperial House.

Unfortunately, the common reaction in this particular topic tends towards emotionally-charged, intellectually-lightweight comments that add nothing substantial to the conversation. Your contribution is thus a breath of fresh air!
 
Well, as daughter of Vladimir Cyrillovich Romanov, Grand Duke of Russia, and of Princess Leonida Georgiyevna Bagration-Moukhranskaya she is a Grand Duchess of Russia and a member of the imperial dynasty. There is no pretension in that. As spouse to Prince Franz Wilhelm of Prussia, she was a German Princess and a member of the Prussian royal dynasty. There was no pretension in that either. The Grand Duchess sometimes appears nicely bejewelled and with Orders, but also this is not a pretension: most royal or noble Houses simply do the same.

There are reasons to be critical on Maria Vladimirovna but that does not mean that on itself she is not fully entitled to the titles, style, position and égards she has. I am no supporter of her claim to the headship but at least she has the zest, the commitment and the willpower all other Romanovs seems lacking.
 
I've noticed there are a lot of double standards here regarding members of deposed Families.
 
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Duc_et_Pair said:
...at least she has the zest, the commitment and the willpower all other Romanovs seems lacking.
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The other Romanovs are working and getting on with their lives, not toadying to every single leader that Russia has had. Frankly, they have no business suggesting that they care more about Russia than the other Romanovs.
 
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Yes, Cory, I have read the statements on Ukraine. But you still have not answered my question. I don't know how clearer such a simple request can be? When you publicly defame someone's character you should be able to provide proof. It seems that the only proof you will accept, to absolve the Grand Duchess of the accusation of backing the Russian government, is an explicit statement of condemnation. Well, as they say, what's good for the goose is good for the gander, so let us apply the same stringent requirement for absolute proof to the gander. Please provide a direct quote from Maria Vladimirovna in which she explicitly states her support for the actions of Russia in Ukraine. Not Crimea, but Ukraine. Crimea is a fait accompli that sets right a unilateral decision made 60 years ago by Nikita Khrushchev. It should have happened differently, but there you go, it's done now.

The reality is, of course, that there is probably no definitive evidence to prove either explicit support or explicit condemnation of the Russian government. A glance at any of the Grand Duchess's comments shows that she carefully considers the circumstances surrounding the topic at hand:

...we can hardly welcome without reservation every acquisition of a new slice of territory. It is necessary always to consider if this specific instance will not end up damaging our common civilization, will be nothing more than a time bomb that will someday explode, will only spawn new problems in the interrelations between nations. Royal Russia​

But she does reveal her feelings in her answers. Just look at her most recent statement on the situation in Ukraine, from 8 July:

Again and again my heart is filled with deep sorrow by the continuous reports of the fratricidal civil war that is tearing Ukraine apart.

Unfortunately, despite all the efforts being made by government leaders, diplomats, and religious and social figures in Russia and in many other countries, the conflict continues unabated. More and more, the victims of this violence are the civilian population, and worst of all, completely defenseless children, women, and the elderly. The situation in Ukraine can already be regarded as a humanitarian catastrophe; and when the cold weather sets in this autumn and winter, the destruction of infrastructure in many cities and towns will bring even more difficult hardships.

What is happening now in the southeastern parts of Ukraine is a disaster not only for the population of this region and for Ukraine in general. It is a broader calamity, fraught with dire consequences for all the fraternal peoples of the former Russian Empire and USSR—and ultimately, for all Europe and the entire world.

Hatred, cruelty, random violence, and lawlessness are the inevitable outcome of all civil unrest, bringing death and dooming the majority of the survivors to ruin and humiliation in their own country or to the sorrowful plight of the refugee. Imperial House of Russia​

This follows a similar statement from February:

I pray for the repose of the souls of all those who have lost their lives in these events, for the quick recovery of the injured, and for a cessation of violence.

I call upon all citizens of Ukraine, regardless of their political views, not to forget that they are all the sons and daughters of a common homeland and not to allow that common homeland to slip into a fratricidal civil war.

For the sake of the integrity of the Ukrainian State and the unity of its people, no one should in any way or under any circumstances yield to the temptation for revenge or retaliation. May all of us remember the words of the Holy Royal Passion-Bearer, Emperor Nicholas II: “evil cannot vanquish evil, only love can.” Imperial House of Russia​

Maybe I'm missing something, but her words to not strike me as support for Russia's policy in Ukraine, Russian territorial ambitions, or the restoration of the borders of the Russian Empire. I do think her views on the relationship between Russia and Ukraine somewhat old fashioned and idealised. In her message of condolence on the death of Metropolitan Vladimir of Kiev and All Ukraine, she stated:

I will forever in my heart remember with gratitude His Beatitude’s invitation to come in 2011 to visit Ukraine and venerate the holy places in Kiev, the cradle of Russian Christianity.

I and my son and heir, Grand Duke George of Russia, offer you, and all the archpastors, pastors, and faithful of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, our deepest condolences on their sad loss, and we pray that God will grant repose to the newly-departed Metropolitan Vladimir in the abode of the righteous, and will grant him the gift of intercession with God for the suffering people of Ukraine and for us all. Imperial House of Russia​

She often mentions the fraternal peoples of the former USSR and Russian Empire (see above). It reminds me of the way the Queen referred to "my Australian peoples" during the 1954 Royal Visit! I love the way her statements include the line that the "original is signed by Her Imperial Highness’s own hand." It is all wonderfully old fashioned and delightfully quaint. I can understand why she may not be everyone's cup of tea, but she is who she is. I happen to like her larger than life approach to life, it adds a little spot of eccentricity and colour to a sad, drab world.

That is why I object to the unquestioning condemnation of the Grand Duchess's motives by so many people presenting opinion as fact. If she has nefarious intentions, provide the proof. If you don't have the proof, or if your comments are just based on personal antipathy, be honest enough to say so. Otherwise, don't be surprised if someone calls you to task and asks you to backup your accusations. Ultimately, if you dislike her so much, I can only recommend that you ignore her. After all, nobody is forcing you to come to this thread, are they?
 
Those posts presenting sweeping generalisations as statements of fact, using ridiculous hyperbole as somehow bolstering their argument, and the resort to childish name-calling and abuse directed at the Grand Duchess Maria and her son in lieu of intelligent debate have been, and will continue to be removed.

The constant vituperative tone and language of some posters would be amusing if not for the negative effect it has on the overall level of discussion. It would be helpful to the quality of this and other Russian forum threads if those members who consistently demonstrate a deep-seated personal antipathy towards the Grand Duchess and the Grand Duke Georgi thought twice before clicking the 'submit reply' button.

thanks

Warren
TRF Administrator
 
Thanks Warren, nicely put. Anyway, I just happened to find this photo of the Grand Duchess and Grand Duke George. It looks like they are on the Palace Embankment, across the Neva is the Peter and Paul Fortress.

Imperial Mother and Son
(you might need to refresh your browser after the page opens for the photo to load)
 
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Cory said:
The russian propaganda speaks about the "coup in Kiev" and the daughter of the late Grand Duke Vladimir has the same opinion:

Royal Russia News: Grand Duchess Maria: Russia will not give up Crimea despite sanctions
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She has a name, which is not "daughter of the late Grand Duke Vladimir". From where I come from, it's quite rude to refer to someone in such a way.

You can call her Her Imperial Highness The Grand Duchess of Russia, Her Highness Princess Maria of Russia or even Ms. Maria Romanov, but "daughter of the late Grand Duke Vladimir" is, frankly, a ridiculous way to refer to her.

The same goes for the way you refer to HRH The Crown Princess of Romania and to TRH Prince Radu and Prince Nicolae of Romania.
 
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When the title of a person is disputed we try to avoid to use a "title" not accepted by all.
 
Cory said:
When the title of a person is disputed we try to avoid to use a "title" not accepted by all.
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Call her Ms. Romanov, it's better than be disrespectful or sound childish.
 
Is it offensive to say she is the daughter of the late Grand Duke?
 
Cory said:
Is it offensive to say she is the daughter of the late Grand Duke?
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It's not disrespectful to say she's his daughter, but the way you refuse to call her by her own name is disrespectful and a bit childish. It's like she has no identity by her own.
 
Her titles have always been contested and the titles of her ex husband do not apply to her anymore.
 
Cory said:
Her titles have always been contested and the titles of her ex husband do not apply to her anymore.
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Time and time again, you've said this. And it's not a good excuse.

Call her by the title you think she deserves. You can even call her Maria
 
Maria Vladimirovna Romanova is sufficient, if you don't want to use any of her {contested} titles...
 
On this thread I think a simple "Maria Vladimirovna" is a perfectly polite and uncontroversial way to refer to the Grand Duchess. But the obfuscating employed by some posters is not meant to avoid controversy, obviously it's the exact opposite.

Now, to address the comment made by the person who used to call Prince Nicholas of Romania "Prince Nicholas of Romania" but switched to "Nicholas de Roumanie Medforth-Mills" or the "son of Princess Elena of Romania"; whose name starts with a "C", ends in a "y" and has an "or" in the middle. Does Maria Vladimirovna's reference to a "coup in Kiev" constitute support of Russian aggression?

I don't know enough about what happened to have an opinion on whether or not it should be called a coup. But it looks like it is not just the Russians who call the overthrow of President Yanukovych a coup, or question its legality.

Was Yanukovych's Ouster Constitutional?

Ukraine's Just Coup

Ukraine’s Democratic Coup d’Etat

Cheering a Democratic Coup in Ukraine

It had many of the features of a coup; protests, violence, military involvement, and the sudden ousting of a political leader. For Maria Vladimirovna to call it a coup is not necessarily incorrect, but it does show her sympathies are with President Yanukovych. Can you extrapolate that as explicit approval of Russian expansionist tendencies? I think that might be pushing things a bit far, particularly when the rest of the Grand Duchess's comments stress peaceful co-existence between Russia and Ukraine.
 
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:previous:
The Ukraine situation is the Pandora box. As you will understand, the guilt has been assigned. No one, who lives in enlightened European countries, is interested in details.
 
It is always interesting to see words spewed about and what actually happened. The reporting from Russia is always skewed and by the way, almost no one here cares, except for the killing and obvious overtake by professional soldiers dubbed as separatists. The Crimea overtake was by all means obfuscated by the fact that those weren't just ordinary folk who happened to get uniforms, but a professional move which worked terrifically. The same in Ukraine. But, this is not the argument. call her Maria. Call her Maria Vladimirova. Call her anything you want, what is wrong with the daughter of???Calling her son "chubby" was impolite.
 
If you go the facebook page of Natalia Poklonskaya, you will see she is quite proud of the honour she received from Grand Duchess Maria Vladimira Romanova. It seems that she is being invited by pro-Russian monarchists in regions that have or where many want to returrn to Russia. She is someone they associate with Russia and they treat her like a monarch and she then visits. She had her 400th anniversary celebration in Crimea before the conflict because I they were welcoming to their would-be monarch unlike Russia. I do not think this has anything to do with Putin, and is really just about monarchists in the former Romanov empire inviting her to visit and her this showing up. She likes being treated as a Monarch.
 
Cory said:
When the title of a person is disputed we try to avoid to use a "title" not accepted by all.
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Cory, please don't play these silly games. As explained to you more than once in the Royal Families of Italy subforum, this website is The Royal Forums and we (and I don't just mean me) go by the accepted royal usage of names and titles. Continuing to protest and/or pretend that the Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna is not the Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna is as pointless as it is childish.

Warren
Administrator
 
If Maria supports the invasion and conquest of Ukraine, obviously this woman has no issues with creating a new, recreated Imperial Russian Empire.

Grand Duchess Maria: Russia will not give up Crimea despite sanctions
The positive experience of the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union should be taken into account
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Russia Beyond the Headlines - Grand Duchess Maria: Russia will not give up Crimea despite sanctions | Russia Beyond The Headlines

Could someone explain how the Soviet Union brought any positive aspects to Russia?
 
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:previous:
Crimea was conquered under Catherine II (technically speaking, Romanov) and brought into the fold of the Russian Empire. So Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna's views on the current Crimea situation are not that surprising.

I for one think that the positive experiences of the USSR (as a power structure) have nothing to do with the thread. Also it is a futile exercise to explain these aspects/experiences to citizens of the USA and other enlightened regimes.
 
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Yes, you are right and I visited the Old Soviet Union, I found very little positive about it. Of course, the Romanov reign had little to add to decent living for ,most of its citizens, too. I wish you better than Putin and Maria Vladimirova.
 
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You naughty thing AristoCat. Stirring up trouble again are we?
Supporting Crimea’s return to Russia, after only sixty years as part of Ukraine, is not indicative of support for the “invasion and conquest” of Ukraine (and maybe something like “supporting and funding military insurgency” would be a more accurate description). I think Crimea should be part of Russia, as, it appears, do, the majority of Crimea’s citizens. But as for the rest of Ukraine, it should quite clearly be left alone. Her Imperial Highness, the August and Pious Lady, Maria Vladimirovna, Grand Duchess of Russia, Head of the Imperial House of Russia, in the link posted by AristoCat, states quite clearly that:

Neither the Russian Empire nor the Soviet Union can be restored in the form in which they existed. Integration is possible in new forms. The positive experience of the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union should be taken into account, and the mistakes that led to their collapse should be analysed as well. I firmly believe that there is still a common cultural space in the former Russian Empire. This is much more valuable than the state and political unity, which can be ephemeral and vulnerable. And civilisational unity, well-knit by centuries-old spiritual, cultural and social factors, is much deeper.​

Not exactly the words, to my way of thinking, of a war-mongering fiend hungry for territorial gain.

Now, to the difficult question of the positive experiences of the Soviet Union. Well, I think there are at least two worth highlighting:

The Soviet Education Model: Russia’s Communist Legacy in Schools Past & Present

Gagarin’s Legacy: Russia Seeks to Restore Space Glory

I think the health of the citizens of the Soviet Union might have improved after the revolution (that is if they survived war and persecution). There also are probably positive legacies in science, technology, literature, music, film and art. I considered sporting achievements for a moment, but maybe that one is best left off the list.

But, of course, we are now way off topic. So to get back to the topic at hand, IrkutskMedia.ru has some nice pictures of the visit of Her Imperial Highness, the August and Pious Lady, Maria Vladimirovna, Grand Duchess of Russia, Head of the Imperial House of Russia, to Ulan-Ude and Irkutsk. It looks like she's enjoying herself.
 
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