The Duke and Duchess of Sussex to Step Back as Senior Royals: January 2020

[Zaira]

A member of the press, which makes money off reporting on the monarchy, is annoyed that their meal ticket doesn’t want to play anymore. How shocking that such a person would think treatment of H/M wasn’t all that bad. I’d be curious about what POC in the U.K. think about this.

There has been a lot written by Black British commentators on this. You can find it in some of the papers like the Guardian, Independent, and online sources too. Of course more of the "rota" papers and news orgs which are woefully lacking in diversity including the the BBC, refuse to entertain these views from Black and brown Britons except Trevor Philips of course. I can send you more links on private message since I don't want to get ding for bringing race up but here is one article that made it all the way to the NYT from Afua Hirsch who is a noted Black British commentator.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/09/...rince-harry.html?smtyp=cur&smid=tw-nytopinion

The British press has succeeded in its apparent project of hounding Meghan Markle, the Duchess of Sussex, out of Britain. The part it perhaps didn’t bargain for, however, is the loss of Prince Harry — a much loved Royal and a key part of the family’s global brand — along with her.

Her treatment has proved what many of us have always known: No matter how beautiful you are, whom you marry, what palaces you occupy, charities you support, how faithful you are, how much money you accumulate or what good deeds you perform, in this society racism will still follow you.

In Britain’s rigid class society, there is still a deep correlation between privilege and race. The relatively few people of color — and even fewer if you count only those who have African heritage — who rise to prominent success and prosperity in Britain are often told we should be “grateful” or told to leave if we don’t like it here.

Another from HuffPo UK
https://consent.yahoo.com/collectCo...483-ac87-84d3a972f8aa&lang=en-gb&inline=false

 

[Moonmaiden23]

The prospect of Ingrid Seward, editor-in-chief of Majesty Magazine :

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappen...-typical-she-s-just-complained-more-1.5420972

There are a couple of things about Megxit that are genuinely confusing to me. I would appreciate the perspective of one of the zillion or so posters here that have more insight...more knowledge on this situation than MM23 does.

A) The charges of racism that many have posited as one of the main causes of the DoS's
unhappiness in England: I am all too aware of the blatant, crude bare knuckled racist attacks that are levelled at Meghan and even Archie on the Internet and in the gutter tabloids.
I read them and in some cases responded to them . I cannot abide or understand judgeing any human based on skin color. But what about the Big Picture...meaning the BRF itself, the wider British public, and the mainstream Press? For example,when the beautiful biracial Emma, Viscountess Weymouth married into the Thynn family, her groom's parents boycotted the wedding due to her race. Other than the controversial incident with Princess Michael's "blackamoor" pin i don't know if Meghan faced anything similar to Emma. On tours, walkabouts and engagements, Meghan seemed to be greeted with enthusiasm and even rapture by both black and white Britons. The London Times, the Evening Standard, the Independent...have never engaged in racism or bullying of Meghan....that I am aware of.


B) Family support...here is where it gets more confusing to me..I saw Meghan being walked down the aisle (happily, i have heard and read) by the PoW himself. I saw HMQ making exceptions to accommodate her before the wedding with the invitation to Sandringham. There was also the unforgettable photo of HMQ and the DoE after Archie was born. But i continue to read allegations that she did not feel truly supported in her husband's family, and in the words of Meghan herself no one asked if she was okay...

Again..I come in peace ...and sincere confusion. I have formed an understanding of what I THINK might be going on based on what I have read about the characters and personalities of this couple before they met, but I want to hear the perspectives of others before drawing a final conclusion.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Madame Verseau]

Another perspective

https://www.inc.com/minda-zetlin/pr...-leaving-uk-royal-family-racism-tabloids.html

For every the Sussexes are spoiled brats story there will be racism, vicious British media and indifferent royal family played a part of "Sussexit" story. CNN has already did a race played a role story with Piers Morgan raging on Twitter the story was race baiting. Coming from him that's rich; he's led the charge on the attacks on Meghan. DM ran two stories with palace aides denying the Sussexes were going to be kicked out of the streamlined monarchy and Charles is talking to Harry to try to get the couple back into the fold. CH may realize this situation makes the royal house look bad. Dan Wooten from the Sun , the guy who leaked the story, allegedly has a in with KP, which explains the social media fingerpointing there. Harry was following the chain of command, the Sun was stupid and lobbed this grenadet for clicks so the Sussexes responded.

I hope the queen and Charles work this out with Harry and Meghan. I remember the queen's Christmas speech about the bumpy year and the small steps to going forward. All parties need to come in and talk, take ownership of their roles in this mess (I mean both sides, not a Sussex mea culpa with the Crown blameless) and work on healing.

 

[maria-olivia]

Excellent for the newspapers ,small inerest for it in Belgium.

 

[bethaliz6894]

There is a lot we don’t know. I find it difficult to believe Charles wasn’t planning on including Harry. The RF is about to get much smaller naturally due to the ages of most members.

I kind of wonder if Charles didn't say we can only support 4 people, William, and his 3 children. We all know he wants to slimline it a little. Harry may have become upset and decided to leave before getting kicked out. It is easier to deal with a self-imposed exile than one thrust upon you.

 

[Lumutqueen]

Can I just ask, perhaps Muhler in particular and other Danish posters, the Crown Princely couple have just gone to Switzerland for a couple of months (not 100% on how long) for their children’s education. Frederik is performing engagements in relation to his IOC role I understand.

How has that gone down in Denmark? I know January is a quiet time, and of course they’re going to come back but this is the Crown Princely family we’re talking about living in another country for a few months.

 

[Zaira]

There are a couple of things about Megxit that are genuinely confusing to me. I would appreciate the perspective of one of the zillion or so posters here that have more insight...more knowledge on this situation than MM23 does.

A) The charges of racism that many have posited as one of the main causes of the DoS's inhappiness in England: I am all too aware of the blatant, crude bare knuckled racist attacks that are levelled at Meghan and even Archie on the Internet and in the gutter tabloids.
I read them and in some cases responded to them . I cannot abide or understand judgeing any human based on skin color. But what a out the Big Picture...meaning the BRF itself, the wider British public, and the mainstream Press? For example,when the beautiful biracial Emma, Viscountess Weymouth married into the Thynn family, her groom's parents boycotted the wedding due to her race. Other than the controversial incident with Princess Michael's "blackamoor" pin i don't know if Meghan faced anything similar to Emma. On tours, walkabouts and engagements, Meghan seemed to be greeted with enthusiasm and even rapture by both black and white Britons. The London Times, the Evening Standard, the Independent...have never engaged in racism or bullying of Meghan....that I am aware of.


B) Family support...here is where it gets more confusing to me..I saw Meghan being walked down the aisle (happily, i have heard and read) by the PoW himself. I saw HMQ making exceptions to accommodate her before the wedding with the invitation to Sandringham. There was also the unforgettable photo of HMQ and the DoE after Archie was born. But i continue to read allegations that she did not feel truly supported in her husband's family, and in the words of Meghan herself no one asked if she was okay...

Again..I come in peace ...and sincere confusion. I have formed an understanding of what I THINK might be going on based on what I have read about the characters and personalities of this couple before they met, but I want to hear the perspectives of others before drawing a final conclusion.

Thanks in advance!

Edited: in the interest of not getting in trouble, I will just message you.

 

[Fem]

B) Family support...here is where it gets more confusing to me..I saw Meghan being walked down the aisle (happily, i have heard and read) by the PoW himself. I saw HMQ making exceptions to accommodate her before the wedding with the invitation to Sandringham. There was also the unforgettable photo of HMQ and the DoE after Archie was born. But i continue to read allegations that she did not feel truly supported in her husband's family, and in the words of Meghan herself no one asked if she was okay...

Only my speculation, but I think it wasn't about lack of support, but the "wrong" kind of support. I'm guessing when she tried to work out a solution she just heard "I know it's though but keep working/ignore the press/they'll shut up eventually" - and the never complain, never explain motto or the stiff upper lip doesn't really fit Meghan's personality. So some advice, given her with the best intention at heart, could feel to her as lack of support.

As far as the "no one asked if she was okay" part - that's like #1 complaint from all of my friends who became mothers recently. Everyone asks about the baby, forgetting all about the mom. So in a few hours you go from being pregnant and everyone interested in how you feel to being a mom to a small human, who gets all the attention. I wonder if this didn't play a part in that.

 

[Somebody]

I kind of wonder if Charles didn't say we can only support 4 people, William, and his 3 children. We all know he wants to slimline it a little. Harry may have become upset and decided to leave before getting kicked out. It is easier to deal with a self-imposed exile than one thrust upon you.

This is completely inconsistent with what the BRF has done over the last 2 years: especially the prominent role they were given regarding the Commonwealth and the queen handing over charities to Meghan. They would certainly not have done that if Charles' aim had all along been to remove Harry and Meghan from active royal duty.

Moreover, when talking about 'supporting' people. I am quite sure they count the number of adults. The children are included with their parents. Once Charles becomes king, he doesn't have to support William, as William will become the recipient of his current Cornwall duchy money. Charles would surely have sufficient money to support his only remaining son (and probably 2 of his siblings); given that the queen was able to support her cousins and her 3 remaining children from that budget.

Everything points to Charles wanting Harry & Meghan as part of the 'active' royal family. Archie -like Beatrice and Eugenie and Louise and James- was most likely never expected to take on royal duties.

 

[_Heather_]

I don’t think Meghan doing a voiceover/narrator performance for say a documentary in exchange for a charitable contribution would be frowned upon or be unethical.
But if other monies exchanged hands it could be problematic... for a fulltime working royal.

I agree entirely. But, given that they’re always looking for positive press and pats on the back and this charity is certainly much worth their time and attention, it seems odd to me that it was kept so quiet and only emerged in the middle of the chaos. If the work hadn’t yet been performed then sure, keep it quiet. But by the sounds of things it’s all but ready to release. It just seems very odd, once again, the way it’s been gone about.

 

[Osipi]

But i continue to read allegations that she did not feel truly supported in her husband's family, and in the words of Meghan herself no one asked if she was okay...

This is the first time I'm addressing that statement made and perhaps I'm the odd one out but I actually took it to mean that the person doing the interview was the first person of the *media* to ask if she was OK. I didn't see it as a statement that no one in her private life of friends and family has asked that. If that was true, it would also denote that none of her close friends never asked her either. Its why I took it to mean that it was the media and the gobs of reporters yelling questions for the "scoop" that never cared to ask. I do believe that statement was taken way out of context and used by the media in a negative way. But that's just me.

Anything can be spun to suit an agenda and a whole lot of that is happening right now and I still stand by my belief that *no one* has a clue of what is really going on or what the *real* story is and what the outcome is going to be is anyone's guess and supposition and opinion with absolutely no factual backup to it.

Next up: Harry and Meghan set to leave Earth and colonize Mars with funding from the Queen and Charles' personal income backing them. Archie will be the first man to have a child born as a dual British/Martian citizen. (of course there's no mention of where the female birthing that child comes from... a native Martian?) Film at 11.

That story is a viable as any of the others that are appearing all over the place now.

 

[Muhler]

Can I just ask, perhaps Muhler in particular and other Danish posters, the Crown Princely couple have just gone to Switzerland for a couple of months (not 100% on how long) for their children’s education. Frederik is performing engagements in relation to his IOC role I understand.

How has that gone down in Denmark? I know January is a quiet time, and of course they’re going to come back but this is the Crown Princely family we’re talking about living in another country for a few months.

Eeh?

Sure.
Well, Frederik will be attending his IOC commitments for most of January, after that he will presumably mainly work from Denmark and visit his family in the weekends or whenever he can.
Mary will attend a few duties when she can. Presumably with Frederik or perhaps Mary's dad looking after the children.

M&F have so much credit on their accounts and have done so many events that twelve weeks away is generally considered acceptable. Some see it as a kind a family-quality time with skiing rather than mainly educational. But as it is far from unusual for parents to take their children out of school for a few months to perhaps go to the other side of the globe, it's not something that rocks the boat.

That the CP family spend some time abroad is not something I feel raise eyebrows here. It is after all expected that all M&F's children will spend time and study abroad up to several times in the future.
And considering that Christian will leave school next year, to attend high school and M&F in theory could become the regent couple any moment, this is probably the last opportunity they have to do something like this as a family.

But what has this to do with H&M?

 

[Somebody]

Can I just ask, perhaps Muhler in particular and other Danish posters, the Crown Princely couple have just gone to Switzerland for a couple of months (not 100% on how long) for their children’s education. Frederik is performing engagements in relation to his IOC role I understand.

How has that gone down in Denmark? I know January is a quiet time, and of course they’re going to come back but this is the Crown Princely family we’re talking about living in another country for a few months.

It's not only Denmark - nor only the crown princely couple (the couple made it clear this was a one time opportunity), his younger brother is in France as well (officially for a year although some doubt whether they will return). The Norwegian crown princely family did a 2 month family trip to India. Guillaume and Stephanie went to London for a year.

The Dutch king's youngest brother lived in Belgium with his family for about the last 10 years of his mother's reign. He moved back around the time his brother became king; in this way his children would be able to go to secondary school in the Netherlands and they would be closer by to support their brother(in-law) - although I haven't seen a clear increase in their royal activities since their move back.

It seems that occasional absences are accepted (with some grumbling of course) by most countries for senior/full-time royals. The main difference seems to be that Harry and Meghan don't want to do a one-time few months absence (they already had something like that with their 6 weeks break in Canada) but want to permanently divide their time between their home country of Britain and North America.

 

[carlota]

this is all over the press, all over the news, all over social media. in a big way and with mostly negative opinions on H&M. if they wanted privacy, peace and quiet and not to be attacked by the press and public, this has had the entirely opposite effect.

Because, in my naivity, I thought british people, different from other people in the world, could have easier access to Canada as Canada is a Commonwealth country (the other way around as well, of course) and they have a common Head of State.

and that is probably what they thought as well. that because it is commonwealth, they'd be able to more easily sneak a passport/residency.

The more I think about it, my conclusion is that Meghan’s desire to live in North America could have been accommodated if the couple had approached Prince Charles ( the designated future head of the Commonwealth) to discuss with the relevant parties ( the UK Foreign Office, the.Canadian government, etc.) the possibility of setting up a new Commonwealth agency in Canada covering the entire Western Hemisphere including the Caribbean. Harry could have been appointed to that agency then in an official capacity as a British representative with costs paid under the FCO budget.

mmmm, probably it would have worked, but in all honesty it would have been a bit shady an operation in itself, but i think it would have flown by (at least much better than what they did).

Think about it:



The UK is due to leave the political institutions of the EU on January 31 and then start tense negotiations with Brussels on a new relationship that will have an impact on the country's future for decades possibly. And there are tensions in Northern Ireland and Scotland that have resurfaced with Brexit and have to be dealt with.

Meanwhile, there is an ongoing crisis with Iran in the Middle East where the UK has hundreds of diplomatic and service personnel on the ground. Right now, UK military assets are being deployed to evacuate UK citizens or staff if needed and to protect UK installations and interests (for example, escort ships in the Persian Gulf, etc.).

All of the above (and more) notwithstanding, we are told by the BBC that, at a cabinet meeting at No. 10 Downing Street, ministers had to pause their ordinary business to discuss the future arrangements for Harry and Meghan ! I am sure that, on the other side of the Atlantic, the Canadian government (Trudeau is said to be friends with Meghan BTW) is also being asked to join the discussion.


It is ridiculous and certainly gives ammunition to Republic and other anti-monarchist organizations (I'd assume in Canada too).

yes, timing was off in many ways. we are at the brink of war, in a very unstable international political situation, with a very unstable domestic situation with brexit looming. it just reinforces the message that it is a 'me, me, me' kind of situation with them.

No.

It hasn't occurred to them at all.

I don't believe the thought that they might not be that welcome as permanent residents in another country has crossed their minds.
Nor have they considered that a wish to move and settle in another country (because that's de facto what they are doing) may cause embarrassment for the government in that country - seemingly Canada.

Nor have they contemplated that the government of Britain - and again, seemingly Canada as well - may have other things on their minds than solving their self-imposed problems.

We can debate endlessly why, but right now H&M are living in a reality of their own.

their lack of strategy is evident left, right and centre. i agree, it has not crossed their minds at all. they just operated with impunity, impulsiveness and selfishly to suit their own agenda.

“Financially independent” are code words for “enhance their brand” which are code words for selling out. H and M want to use the Sussex name for commercial purposes - I can just see them all over my tv, promoting some garbage I’m not interested in. Just for this reason alone I’d love to see their titles stripped, but I’m sure that won’t happen.

but how could this work? surely harry understands that monetising his title/the monarchy is a big no. how could this even have crossed their minds? how could they monetise 'their brand' in a way that would protect/not harm the monarchy?

 

[Pranter]

Should Harry & Meghan continue to receive an income from the Duchy of Cornwall?

Should 13%
Should not 63%
Don’t know 24%

YouGov Jan 9

They don't receive income from the Duchy, Charles does and then he supports the households of his sons. Really no one has any input, nor should they, on how they spend their private funds.

People doing polls on subjects they have absolutely no say on is pointless.


LaRae

 

[Lumutqueen]

M&F have so much credit on their accounts and have done so many events that twelve weeks away is generally considered acceptable.





But what has this to do with H&M?

The M&F situation is the closest I could find to something “similar” to the H&M situation. In that scenario it’s the Crown Prince taking the time out, not the spare although I’m aware that Joachim is currently in France I believe?

What you’ve said about having credit in the bank is massively interesting as well, because I wonder if they’d done a UK Christmas and worked around that period, would the response to this have been different? They’ve spent 6 weeks away, come back for two days, to tell us they’re leaving again?

 

[wyevale]

Unless we 'are taking' about the Tiny 'slimmed down' [emaciated, even] size of the Spanish royal family, its clear that the Prince of Wales envisioned the Sussexes as an integral part of the new 'set up'..

The Diamond jubilee Balcony appearance was clear evidence of the future shape of the Firm, and the numbers planned to be included.

All that must now be in question...since two core members have thrown a [massive] Spanner in the works.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Thanks much...but by "the Press" do you mean the tabloids or internet?

Because they are NEVER gonna shut up and go away. Frankly i don't even consider them the press!

 

[Muhler]

The M&F situation is the closest I could find to something “similar” to the H&M situation. In that scenario it’s the Crown Prince taking the time out, not the spare although I’m aware that Joachim is currently in France I believe?

What you’ve said about having credit in the bank is massively interesting as well, because I wonder if they’d done a UK Christmas and worked around that period, would the response to this have been different? They’ve spent 6 weeks away, come back for two days, to tell us they’re leaving again?

Oh, I see. ?

No, M&F would have been subjected to massive criticism if they had done that. No doubt about that.

Yes, Joachim and his family is in France for a year, while Joachim attend a course at a military academy. And still getting his apanage. And this is something far from everybody here DK are happy with! But Joachim, for various reasons don't have as much credit in the bank as M&F have.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Excellent for the newspapers ,small inerest for it in Belgium.

Good for Belgians!

 

[moby]

I would never claim to understand what it was like for Meghan to feel like she was under attack all the time for being different and especially when it comes to race. I do wish though that the mentality was more "hey, why not use this as an opportunity to highlight causes that highlight these issues" and deal with these in an objective, non-emotional, non-personal manner... Sure it could still be controversial but racism is a reality in any society and should be talked about. Even though the experience is personal, the issue is far bigger than herself and that would have been a more constructive approach.

Because of the way H and M reacted, and the drama they caused in a time like this when the world feels like it's going to crap, can't help having newfound respect for all the spouses of royals who are or were constantly criticized/viewed with suspicion--Camilla, Letizia, Princess Sofia, even Chris O'Neill who had the clearest terms from the start regarding his role in the family--but yet managed to barrel through and stick it out. Who knows what kind of strain these people endure but it seems they know what it is all about and have accepted the commitments they made when they married into royalty.

 

[Denville]

I kind of wonder if Charles didn't say we can only support 4 people, William, and his 3 children. We all know he wants to slimline it a little. Harry may have become upset and decided to leave before getting kicked out. It is easier to deal with a self-imposed exile than one thrust upon you.

Harry gets £2million from the Duchy of cornwall and has been given the job as Commonwealth prince. How on earth is that "not being supported" or "kicked out". This was meant to be his full time role, and he is supported by his father so as to do that role. he was always intended to be a working royal, supporting his father, the queen and evetnaully William. If he didn't like the idea he should not have accepted the job.

 

[Lee-Z]

RE: slimming down monarchy:
even if P.Charles himself has never publicly spoken about it (afaik), imo there is absolutely no way there would be a slimming down that does not include Harry for at least the next 20+ years. The current BRF is quite large with HM's various cousins, so I understand if some "slimming down" would happen, but you have to have *some* people left to do the various tasks, look at the current situation in Norway: both King and Crown Princess are ill, the King's daughter has to focus on her own family (understandably), and now there are only 3 adults left, the Queen and the King's sister (both over 80) and the Crown Prince...

This kind of situation can happen pretty quick, so it would be advisable for the BRF to have a few more adults of P.William's generation available..

Ofcourse you can't force adults who don't want to, but imo P.Charles will try very hard to make some kind of agreement with Harry...

my 2 cts, as always

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Harry gets £2million from the Duchy of cornwall and has been given the job as Commonwealth prince. How on earth is that "not being supported" or "kicked out". This was meant to be his full time role, and he is supported by his father so as to do that role. he was always intended to be a working royal, supporting his father, the queen and evetnaully William. If he didn't like the idea he should not have accepted the job.

Does Harry also draw interest off a multimillion dollar trust established for him with money left to him by Diana? If so, i wonder how much?

 

[wyevale]

a few more adults of P.William's generation available..

Two capable and willing Blood Princesses are ready and able...

 

[Pranter]

Two capable and willing Blood Princesses are ready and able...

Have they ever said this? That they would want that life?



LaRae

 

[winifred]

As a Brit, I'm really sad about this situation, but will wait to see how things are worked out.

Would there be any mileage in paying an apanage for royal duties only, so Prince Charles would cover the cost of travel, clothing, etc just as he does now, whether as a lump sum yearly on or on a case by case basis. Do this for a year, say, or two, and see how it works and where it needs tweaking.

Protection costs would be covered for royal duties, but not for their private or "commercial" appearances.

Frogmore cottage can't be left unguarded for a single minute but paying for an empty building isn't going to go down well; ditto with whatever property they buy or rent wherever they live in North America. I assume when eg Charles isn't at Highgrove or the Cambridges are at Anmer, there are staff still in the houses.

It's all a mess and I hate what it must be doing to the Queen.

 

[LadyGlendower]

Two capable and willing Blood Princesses are ready and able...

This. If you were thinking about this as staffing a company the two of them working part time might fulfill one full time position. Even though they are not considered senior royals they are the granddaughters of the current monarch. One of them is already married/settled and the other soon will be.

And if I were one of them I might want to help rehabilitate the York "sub brand" of the BRF!

 

[Denville]

Does Harry also draw interest off a multimillion dollar trust established for him with money left to him by Diana? If so, i wonder how much?

I presume his money has been invested and brings in an income..but he and Meghan want more money. If they just felt that royal life and the press were too awful and stressful, then IMO they would be content to live abroad or in Englnad, quietely on that income and whatever Meghan has to bring to the table..and do whatever they liked.. a bit of low key charity work, hobbies, bringing up Archie, whatever they wanted to do. But they cleary want more money, they want money from the Duchy of Cornwall and to be able to make their own money.. so all this is far more about ego and money than about them being stressed out or badly treated...

 

[winifred]

Re slimmed down monarchy, Lumutqueen has been banging her head against a brick wall on this one with absolutely no effect, alas. There is NO public record of Prince Charles ever saying such a thing.

Natural wastage will slim the monarchy in the coming years; the Queen and Prince Philip are not immortal, again alas.

The Duke of Kent and Princess Alexandra are in their 80s . Andrew is out for the foreseeable future.

When Charles becomes King I can't for a moment see him kicking Anne, Sophie and Edward and the Duke and Duchess of Gloucester to the kerb, after the sterling work they've done and are doing. The Cambridges and Harry and Meghan would have been the future , till the Cambridge children are old enough , whether that's just George or all 3.

The UK has a population of almost 70 million. 4 working royals - Charles, Camilla, William and Kate or even 6 with Harry and Meghan would massively cut down the more than 3000 public engagements that the family did last year.