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  #1681  
Old 01-12-2020, 10:28 AM
kathia_sophia's Avatar
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Oh my god! 84 pages! I was away in vacation, and it seems that many things happened while I was away from here.


Please, sorry to bother, but could someone here provide me info about what happened since the beginning? I don't want to "suffer" and read 84 pages in order to know what's happening. Thank you all.
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  #1682  
Old 01-12-2020, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ista View Post
The press is never kind to anyone, and Harry and Meghan made some missteps early on--little things, perhaps, but which accumulated over time. That doesn't excuse some of the coverage, but it does give some context.

Harry and Meghan used to be an asset. It's far from clear that they could be in the future. They may have torched that bridge: torched and salted the earth. How can they ever be trusted again? That's the thing that made what they did with the wish list/demands so egregious. Pretty hard to come back from that.

And now they have Tom Bradby making implied threats about no-holds barred interviews if they don't get what they want, so they aren't even operating in good faith right now. It is not a good portent for their stability, reliability, or trustworthiness going forward.
Excellent post, you are correct, even if they came to an agreement tomorrow could they be trusted to keep to the arrangement.
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  #1683  
Old 01-12-2020, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parterre View Post
I disagree strongly (and I'm a Canadian citizen!)

#2 and 4 are really questions of public opinion. A poll in the National Post showed that 60% of Canadians would approve of Prince Harry becoming Governor-General, including 62% of 18-34 year olds and even 47% of Quebecers. By contrast, an Angus Reid poll showed that 55% of Canadians approved of the incumbent Julie Payette's appointment in 2017.

As for #1, I don't think anyone is suggesting booting Payette immediately. I imagine he would be appointed at the end of her term in 2022-23. This would give the Sussexes 2-3 years to bolster his finances, place down roots, and enhance their reputation further and take on local patronages (Colonel-in-Chief of the Royal Canadian Regiment?).

#3 is the only real barrier, but it's hardly an insurmountable one, if the Prince is willing to tackle it . In any case, the informal convention of alternating between Anglophones and Francophones means that the next GG should be an Anglophone, so I imagine he has some leeway (and bilingualism too is not a a hard rule but a custom which is flexible to public opinion, although given that it's expected generally of high-ranking officeholders I imagine it is less flexible than #2 and #4).

I think this would be the best of both worlds. It would lend the office of de facto head of state a glamour and prominence on the world stage it's long lacked. It would allow the Sussexes to take on a role with the purpose they've lacked in the UK, but one they would-- given their unique stature-- they would probably have a lot of room to redefine. It would abrogate all sorts of financial concerns. It would revitalize the Canadian monarchy for and renew the Crown's link with the largest Commonwealth realm during what will probably be an uncertain transition period. This Canadian move may yet prove a very sound idea, even if the roll-out was botched.
I don’t think Harry will ever be GG , but since you raised the topic, as GG ,Harry would at least have to give speeches partially in French, including the most important of all, the Speech from the Throne ( the Canadian equivalent to the Queen’s speech). I don’t think Harry is ready for that , even if he had an intensive course in French.

Second, the GG in Canada plays pretty much the same state role that the Queen does in the UK. That means meetings of the Privy Council, signing bills into law, audiences with ministers, accepting diplomatic credentials , hosting state dinners, etc etc . I don’t think Harry has any interest or training to do such things ( to be fair , many past GGs didn’t either, but they were picked for political reasons).

I believe Harry would feel more at ease with the type of social work the GG does, like giving awards, taking patronages, etc as that is closer to what he already does on the UK, but that is only part of the job.
  #1684  
Old 01-12-2020, 10:46 AM
Nobility
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallo girl View Post
I am sure many of us could live the quiet private life they claim to want on that kind of money. I am prepared to give it a try.
I could live quite nicely on 30 million too, but I couldn't fund a Sussex lifestyle. If they get 5 to 10% return on their investments that is 1.5 to 3 million dollars a year would be taxed in up to 3 countries. That wouldn't cover their security. It would barely cover Meghan's clothing allowance.
  #1685  
Old 01-12-2020, 10:47 AM
Nico's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilyflo View Post
Tom Bradby says:


So the truth is probably somewhere in the middle but perceptions can hide the truth for us personally. One side perceives H&M as difficult, while H&M see jealousy & unfriendliness. This family needs mediation to resolve these deep rooted issues so they can operate as a cohesive, supportive team. I said before that they resemble a disparate group doing their own thing rather than 'the firm' they're supposed to be.
I don't see jealousy from other members of the BRF, but surely i see maybe exasperation from members who spent ages playing by the rules and see the Sussexes basically doing what they want. It's not envy it's a reaction to a situation profoundly unfair to the other members of the BRF and sureley judged as selfish compared to the usual "team" spirit of the Firm.
Again we can judge the Monarchy as an old intitution, out of touch with bygone rules. It's probably not wrong but again changing takes time and reflection and above all it has to come from the top.
Who do the Sussexes think they are by declaring themselves reformer of the Monarchy ? It's not their role to try to unilaterally modernize the Monarchy, it's their role to SUPPORT the head of the House who will eventually try to changes things.

Last night i rewatched the interview with Kenneth Harris of the Duke and Duchess of Windsor. It's amazing how history is eerily repeating itself.

  #1686  
Old 01-12-2020, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
To me, itís quite clear that KP didnít leak this story. But someone in the Sussex Camp did. Henry and Meghan werenít getting their way with negotiations and appeared to be forced to announce the information.

Thatís why Archie was left in Canada, naively Meghan and Henry believed they could come back, everything would work their way and theyíd hop back to Canada before all coming back smelling like roses before Henryís engagements next week.
I agree with you. It was completely to their advantage to leak it since they apparently already had their plans in place and weíre moving forward regardless of any official approval. They certainly got it expedited, but the question remains of whether they will be able to do all they have already publicly declared on their website. I certainly hope not.
  #1687  
Old 01-12-2020, 10:55 AM
Nobility
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallo girl View Post
Excellent post, you are correct, even if they came to an agreement tomorrow could they be trusted to keep to the arrangement.
“They”? No, I think Meghan has proven to the family this past year she is not trust worthy, and that William request of Harry to wait were spot on!

As for Harry and Harrison? The family may, over time, trust him again and welcome them both back into the fold (partially- with a major big brother over seeing eye on his decisions, should he take on royal duties again) if he leaves,
  #1688  
Old 01-12-2020, 11:04 AM
texankitcat's Avatar
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Join Date: Nov 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kathia_sophia View Post
Oh my god! 84 pages! I was away in vacation, and it seems that many things happened while I was away from here.


Please, sorry to bother, but could someone here provide me info about what happened since the beginning? I don't want to "suffer" and read 84 pages in order to know what's happening. Thank you all.
The good news is you donít need to read all 84 pages since it is all over the world media. Going back a few pages here to get the gist of the discussion.
  #1689  
Old 01-12-2020, 11:06 AM
Serene Highness
 
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The Duke and Duchess of Sussex to Step Back as Senior Royals: January 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
To me, itís quite clear that KP didnít leak this story. But someone in the Sussex Camp did. Henry and Meghan werenít getting their way with negotiations and appeared to be forced to announce the information.

Thatís why Archie was left in Canada, naively Meghan and Henry believed they could come back, everything would work their way and theyíd hop back to Canada before all coming back smelling like roses before Henryís engagements next week.


Agreed- It seems unlikely anyone in KP wanted this leaked. For sure William and Kate did not. It didnít benefit them at all for this mess to become public before decisions were finalized. Itís not their way anyway. Itís possible some advisor leaked this- but it seems less likely. Especially when you take into account what happened after the leak.

It makes way more sense for someone on the Sussex side to have leaked this. And look at their response: they announced with no notice to the family they were doing this.

There was no effort to work with the family. People can say they ďhadĒ to announce due to the leak. I donít agree, but even if you accept that premise- nothing explains not acting WITH the family in making the statement. They blindsided them instead.

They added more fuel to the fire by publishing a wish list- that was long, detailed, vague and clearly hadnít been tossed together in an hour- making it sound like everything was agreed upon. No excuse for any of that imo. (BP responds by saying- they know about the Sussexes desires, but theyíre in the early stages of working on this.) So- clearly nothing has been finalized. With that in mind- it looks like theyíre trying to force the family to accommodate their desires by publicizing their desires and making it sound like a done deal. Itís an appeal to the public.

They took the dogs to Canada and left Archie there. Speaks for itself imo.

Then you have Tom Bradby: It looks incredibly bad that their known mouthpiece is walking around saying:

if they donít get what they want, theyíll give interviews that trash the family. Nice bit of blackmail there. If thatís not true, this would be a good opportunity for the Sussexes to personally say thatís not the case. Again- he seems to be their mouthpiece. Trusted by them. It doesnít sound like gossip coming from him. And itís one more reason to consider that the Sussexes wanted this leaked.

You also have him claiming jealousy is part of the reason this happened. He threw everyone under the bus except HM and Philip with that. Nice- so that means even Charles isnít exempted from that.

There is clearly a lack of trust within the family. Iím sure there is on the Sussex side, but where it is painfully obvious- the rest of the BRF is constantly getting publicly blindsided by these two.

As listed above and starting- at least- with that interview- where they complained about their lives, Meghan complained about no one asking about how sheís doing (whether she meant the press, the family, everyone- who knows- but it was left open for interpretation), and Harry chose to acknowledge the rift with William. No one knew the documentary was going to go in that personal of a direction.

Honestly- it is more believable imo that someone on the Sussex side leaked this based on how everything has been handled since and the BP statement. Maybe someone in KP did it without William and Kateís knowledge, but that seems far less likely imo. Based on the Sussex responses - ALL of them- it feels like more of a negotiating tactic on their end. They just claim it wasnít them.
  #1690  
Old 01-12-2020, 11:26 AM
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Location: LONDON, United Kingdom
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I don't doubt they have already worked out the lucrative business deals at their disposal now they have jumped ship! Some figures being suggested are £400-600 million in private enterprise earnings. The incomes they can generate will be vast.

Compare this, to a rainy Wednesday afternoon, attending a Royal Engagement on some rundown Council Estate.

Unlike the Duchess of York, who also cut and run; Meghan is not going to let the same thing happen to her. She's a hardnosed business woman, and at nearly 39, will do whatever it takes while the sun still shines. I doubt she'll ever see the Queen again face-to-face, or be part of Royal Christmas events. Harry has a mind of his own and wants the same I would suspect. Although I wonder if Harry had NOT agreed to jump ship; Meghan would have just marched on, on her own, and left the toxic UK; as she calls it, far behind, and then instructed top of the game Lawyers to protect her personal interests. In the next few years I think they will have many challenges to face. They will either stick it out together, or the marriage will start to unravel; and the inevitable marriage-over stories will start to surface. I donít believe the HRH titles are in jeopardy, at the moment, as Harry will want to retain those.

I had expected Meghan to attend the crisis meeting; and was shocked when I heard she had left the country, rather than face the royals with Harry, around the table. I expect Harry will be gone from the UK by the end of next week.

I donít think Catherine and Meghan had a falling out; I believe they never related to each other right from the beginning. William and Catherine once they become King and Queen in the distant future, will focus on that. William feels badly let down, and whether he blames Meghan for the brothers' broken relationship; or Harry as well; only William knows.

The Duke of Windsor spent most of his money buying jewellery for Walls, and after most of their money ran out; they attended numerous parties almost anywhere for a free lunch. Sadly, King George V1 and the Duke of Windsor's relationship was never the same again. I wonder what the Queen Mother would have made of it all. Charles, whether fairly, or unfairly comes across as weak and ineffectual.
  #1691  
Old 01-12-2020, 11:26 AM
Eskimo's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parterre View Post
I disagree strongly (and I'm a Canadian citizen!)

#2 and 4 are really questions of public opinion. A poll in the National Post showed that 60% of Canadians would approve of Prince Harry becoming Governor-General, including 62% of 18-34 year olds and even 47% of Quebecers. By contrast, an Angus Reid poll showed that 55% of Canadians approved of the incumbent Julie Payette's appointment in 2017.

As for #1, I don't think anyone is suggesting booting Payette immediately. I imagine he would be appointed at the end of her term in 2022-23. This would give the Sussexes 2-3 years to bolster his finances, place down roots, and enhance their reputation further and take on local patronages (Colonel-in-Chief of the Royal Canadian Regiment?).

#3 is the only real barrier, but it's hardly an insurmountable one, if the Prince is willing to tackle it . In any case, the informal convention of alternating between Anglophones and Francophones means that the next GG should be an Anglophone, so I imagine he has some leeway (and bilingualism too is not a a hard rule but a custom which is flexible to public opinion, although given that it's expected generally of high-ranking officeholders I imagine it is less flexible than #2 and #4).

I think this would be the best of both worlds. It would lend the office of de facto head of state a glamour and prominence on the world stage it's long lacked. It would allow the Sussexes to take on a role with the purpose they've lacked in the UK, but one they would-- given their unique stature-- they would probably have a lot of room to redefine. It would abrogate all sorts of financial concerns. It would revitalize the Canadian monarchy for and renew the Crown's link with the largest Commonwealth realm during what will probably be an uncertain transition period. This Canadian move may yet prove a very sound idea, even if the roll-out was botched.
Parterre---Let you give me my perspective on this as a Canadian living in the US:

I am a supporter of the current ruling Liberal Party of Canada and Prime Minister Justin Trudeau. However, if he chooses to recommend ANY non-Canadian for GG (including Harry) I will be the calling for his immediate resignation as PM. And I am pretty sure that is what a majority of Canadians will do. So politically speaking it is a non-starter.
  #1692  
Old 01-12-2020, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parrothead View Post
I just saw this and was about to post it. Iím not sure what to think about it, but the fact they say to become ďfinancially independentĒ struck me as odd. Sounds like theyíre wanting to commercialize all things Sussex related which just makes me think they only want to be royal if they can make money off of it.

I didn't think to come here until today. All the talking heads on TV know nothing about the royal family - I'd rather listen to the opinion of people who actually have followed them for years like I have.



Yes, this is the only thing that bothers me about their leaving. They're minor royals and from what I've read (and believe - look at the pictures behind the queen during her last speech - no Meghan and Harry) is that they were told they were going to be part of the "slimming down" of the royal family so they decided to act. Supposedly the Sun knew this and was going to publish it the next day so they beat them to the punch.


No I don't like the idea of the "sussex royal" website and all the merchandise they've trademarked. I think I'd rather they continue getting their money from Charles and the Queen. In the past Sophie, Edward and Fergie all tried to sell their royal connections with disastrous results. This is not new territory. She can work, he can work (she can go back to acting - there's a story going around that she's doing voice over work for Disney.) I don't see a problem with that.



I also think they shouldn't have the HRH if they're not really going to be working members of the royals. I think that title should be saved for those in direct line. I don't think they have to lose all their titles - Andrew should have to but that's a different conversation. They didn't do anything wrong they just want to step back and become more like Zara and Peter who earn their own money. No one criticizes them.
  #1693  
Old 01-12-2020, 11:32 AM
QueenMathilde's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evolvingdoors View Post
As someone who lived in the US for many years, and studied the various visas, and who has many immigrant friends with American spouses: Meghan would have little issues sponsoring Harry and the process would not take several years, but at most a year. She will need to apply for a spousal green card for him. He can in the mean time live in the U.K. and continue working (or do whatever the hell he wants). It takes about a year max year and half. They can also enter the US and apply from there, but that can be tricky as Harry, who would be entering at that moment on tourist or diplomatic visa, would have to falsely say upon entering he has no plans to immigrate.
They could have gone the first route, say they were planning to retire and have decided to move to the us as private citizens. They could have continued royal work and slowly ending their commitments in the U.K., as they were waiting for Harry to be approved for his green card.

One of the two biggest issue regarding Harry having a US citizenship will be, imo, the IRS.
The second is: upon a dicvorce Harry will be screwed custody wise. And I absolutely can not see him loving living in California in the long run.

I think they'd both apply for Canadian citizenship. That's where they want to live.
  #1694  
Old 01-12-2020, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
I got the impression they were implying part of the reason Charles wanted Geidt gone was he "foresaw" challenges with Meghan and Harry, though given he left before they were even engaged I'm not sure there's truth in that (plus HM gave him a role in same organisation as H&M regarding Commonwealth)

I can believe Andrew wanted him gone because Geidt was happy to tell HM the truth including about her second eldest son and the future role of his daughters.

Interesting HM was travelling to church today with her lady in waiting Lady Susan Hussey, one of the more experienced Ladies in Waiting - William's godmother, and who was "lent to Diana" in the very early days. Whether on purpose or by chance HM seems to have her A-team with her including people who've known the family for long enough to not be intimidated by them.
Thanks !

Without knowing the man, Iíd like to see him brought back to his old position, replacing ..I think his name is Sir Edward Young?
  #1695  
Old 01-12-2020, 11:32 AM
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North America; The USA, or Canada. Whatever happened to the.... We're the Family she never had!

I don't doubt they have already worked out the lucrative business deals at their disposal now they have jumped ship! Some figures being suggested are £400-600 million in private enterprise earnings. The incomes they can generate will be vast.

Compare this, to a rainy Wednesday afternoon, attending a Royal Engagement on some rundown Council Estate.

Unlike the Duchess of York, who also cut and run; Meghan is not going to let the same thing happen to her. She's a hardnosed business woman, and at nearly 39, will do whatever it takes while the sun still shines. I doubt she'll ever see the Queen again face-to-face, or be part of Royal Christmas events. Harry has a mind of his own and wants the same I would suspect. Although I wonder if Harry had NOT agreed to jump ship; Meghan would have just marched on, on her own, and left the toxic UK; as she calls it, far behind, and then instructed top of the game Lawyers to protect her personal interests. In the next few years I think they will have many challenges to face. They will either stick it out together, or the marriage will start to unravel; and the inevitable marriage-over stories will start to surface. I donít believe the HRH titles are in jeopardy, at the moment, as Harry will want to retain those.

I had expected Meghan to attend the crisis meeting; and was shocked when I heard she had left the country, rather than face the royals with Harry, around the table. I expect Harry will be gone from the UK by the end of next week.

I donít think Catherine and Meghan had a falling out; I believe they never related to each other right from the beginning. William and Catherine once they become King and Queen in the distant future, will focus on that. William feels badly let down, and whether he blames Meghan for the brothers' broken relationship; or Harry as well; only William knows.

The Duke of Windsor spent most of his money buying jewellery for Walls, and after most of their money ran out; they attended numerous parties almost anywhere for a free lunch. Sadly, King George V1 and the Duke of Windsor's relationship was never the same again. I wonder what the Queen Mother would have made of it all. Charles, whether fairly, or unfairly comes across as weak and ineffectual.
  #1696  
Old 01-12-2020, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyGlendower View Post
No doubt Meghan knew all about the Brit newspapers going in and to this day it mystifies me why she projects a blindsided injured public persona when it comes to the press. Her tough activist feminist woman in her thirties persona is so at odds with this. I expected to see a silent fierce dignified spit in your eye response and what I saw instead was that weak tea ITV mess.

But I think on a personal level your assessment is probably very close to the mark.
She was an actress, she knows how to put on a good performance to elicit sympathy. Unfortunately for her, a leopard canít change his spots..l
  #1697  
Old 01-12-2020, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poppy7 View Post
In the Diana 7 days documentary, William very clearly showed an understanding of Diana's games with the media. He also appeared very clear eyed about his mother , also expressing extremely diplomatically that it was unfortunate that his memories were of her being upset and feeling the need to rescue her. Also implying how unfair it was on a child. Harry talked mainly about himself and guilt. Guilt was one thing missing from William.
William and Harry are very different characters. Harry was only 12 when his mother died and William was 15. It's not a large gap now but it is huge at that age. While I think the loss of their mother was huge for both of them, it wouldn't be unusual for Harry to be impacted more adversely.

I think William also has a clearer perspective as a parent. He's obviously more experienced with 3 children. Harry is still in the first new baby stage, and most parents are way more cautious with their first child.

George, Charlotte and Louis do not get anything like the same exposure as William and Harry did. They do not have regular photo calls. Most of the pictures that are released are taken by Catherine. I think part of this is a parenting choice but also a change in the media. It is not acceptable to 'pap' children anymore. But the Cambridges understand that their children belong to the nation a little bit too. Most people just want to share in their happiness.

It's like Harry and Meghan are in quicksand...They are thrashing around fighting for their lives which only makes it worse. What they really need to do is calm down, take a step back and float.
  #1698  
Old 01-12-2020, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by American Observer7 View Post
She not going to let Harry be in Canada without security. I don't care what anyone says. He will always be a royal and he and his family need security.

Beatrice and Eugenie are also royals; they do not get public money for security unless they are doing an official engagement.
Why should H&M be any different?
  #1699  
Old 01-12-2020, 11:41 AM
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I don't know who leaked the plan - if indeed it was leaked. It is just prudent to think that BP told less people then the Sussexes. They seem to have invested a lot of money and time on this in the last year - this didn't happen in six weeks. Many people could have been told and since they are new people, with unknown loyalties chances are they might have leaked.
I would not be surprised if Canadian citizenship had already been applied for.
The telegraph made a list of what was on the list of things to be discussed tomorrow - I noticed that the they left out how deeply the Sussexes would be allowed to voice their opinion and be involved in politics of any country. I believe that will also be discussed. Made me wonder if Meghan had her eyes on the President of USA position as well?
  #1700  
Old 01-12-2020, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
Not a simple matter, AT ALL :

HMQ cant rescind the HRH or their titles, since the first is automatic thanks to the 1917 Letters Patent of George V and the second became legally 'incorporeal hereditaments' when they were granted by Letters Patent under the Great Seal.

The Sussexes would have to become subject to a Bill of Attainder in order to revoke them.

A bill of attainder was last passed in Britain in 1798, against Lord Edward FitzGerald.

Attainders by confession, verdict and process were abolished in the United Kingdom by the Forfeiture Act 1870
Are you suggesting that George V had a greater right to issue Letters Patent under the Great Seal that EII does?

She can revoke both the HRH and Duke of Sussex title and there is recent precedent.

HRH: Under the Letters Patent issued in 1917, only George had the right to the style of Royal Highness and yet the Queen issued Letters Patent to grant all of William's children the HRH. If she can grant HRH's she can take them away.

Duke of Sussex: This Royal Dukedom was granted by the Queen to Harry on his wedding day. She can just as easily take it away.

Given the damage done to the Monarchy's reputation by Andrew cashing in on his HRH and royal connections (let's not even discuss the other stuff), the BRF should take the titles and styles away before the Sussex pair associate them with unsavory characters.

Having said that, I don't think that the BRF will do this until there is a massive scandal with the Sussex using them inappropriately. And this failure to act will hasten the demise of the BRF (along with everything else)
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