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  #3741  
Old 01-19-2020, 03:10 PM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eskimo View Post
I think that this is where it is somewhat headed....The same formula as most countries that have a ceremonial head of state (President) and a backup (Vice-President) if the head of state cannot do their job.

So, by the time William comes to the throne, I expect royal duties will be limited to him, Kate and George and the others will have to go fend for themselves off the public purse.
That is certainly the way things are going for RF's to be reduced to a very small number of working members.
Usually in a royal family there will be SOMEONE who can help out in cases of illness, at least on a temporary basis. In Norway there is Princess Martha Louise who would in bygone days have probably been drafted in, now that poor Mette Marit is in bad health and the king and queen are elderly.. but she's been acting pretty eccentric, and has had to be avoided as a royal helper. If Say William got ill when George was a young man still doing his college or military years, there are still Charlotte and Louis who could help for a bit...
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  #3742  
Old 01-19-2020, 03:12 PM
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Charles himself is volatile, there are stories of him flying into rages, I remember a story where he threw a small object at one of his staffers. IIRC the distinction made was that Charles would have a fit of temper and then get over it but Diana held grudges.
Yes. Charles is like his grandfather, Bertie. He explodes and then it’s over. William is apparently like his mum - and it seems Harry is also - in that way
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  #3743  
Old 01-19-2020, 03:15 PM
Serene Highness
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
Self-absorbed? Absolutely. I call them immature because of the way they threw a proverbial temper tantrum and posted on their website, deliberately defying the Queen and Charles. I call them immature because Harry can't figure out if he hates the Royal life or wants to be part of it - OR if he's just jealous of William. Mercurial is definitely the right description for him - and I've seen that several times in the media.

I want to be fair to them also - I supported Meghan up until now as my posts here will attest to, and of course I loved Harry. It's hard for me to be kind to them when I feel they've been unfair to Charles (not just now), especially, but also of course the Queen and William. I also adore the UK - I've been several times, including last year and the year before, and I'll be visiting again in June.



His wife definitely won.......and Harry thinks he's won, though he's lost. Archie has lost.
I agree, especially last sentences. What in heavens name went wrong. Little things I wonder about...

They fell in love so quickly or at least Harry thinks he did. The engagement interview he seemed so starry eyed with such a strong vibrant woman. And of course we debated what some thought was an over the top dress for the pics at Frogmore let alone the celebrity pose outside KP pics. Walkabouts so touchy/feels, weíre they warned? Seemed so silly yet, I saw someone who doesnít follow the rules. I
donít believe everything the media says, really, who would tell the Queen that St. Georgeís Chapel needs air
fresheners or that they want a big tiara? Did Charles really intervene another time denying her request to wear a tiara? I donít think Harry wanted his own court but someone did. If itís true Harry said whatever Meghan wants...we end up here with the Sussex hokey pokey, you put one foot in (UK), you put one foot out (Canada) all for the woman I love.

Yes, sheís won. And by time time sheís finished with him all the kings horses and all the kings men couldnít...
  #3744  
Old 01-19-2020, 03:15 PM
Serene Highness
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
Yes. Charles is like his grandfather, Bertie. He explodes and then itís over. William is apparently like his mum - and it seems Harry is also - in that way


I hope not. That is very unhealthy- to hold grudges. And, it will certainly be difficult to mend their relationship if thatís both of their mindsets.
  #3745  
Old 01-19-2020, 03:21 PM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
Yes. Charles is like his grandfather, Bertie. He explodes and then itís over. William is apparently like his mum - and it seems Harry is also - in that way
I don't think that "volatity" refered to hot temper. The volatility was more on the lines that Charles never quite knew what to expect from his wife and that the boys had something of the same quality. And that was true of Diana, she veered around a lot in her attitudes. William seems pretty solid these days and does not seem to chop and change in his attitudes. But harry? well yes I think that he is volatile in that snese. He undertook the Royal role, full time.. seemed enthusiastic, got married and then he seemed to get suddnely fed up with it all and want out of it... and to admit to having mental helath issues. Also, he seems to me very different these days to what he was like as a younger man. In the army, he seemed a hearty, good natured young man who enjoyed life and fit in with the drinking and having fun culture. now he is taking life very seriously.. complaining about depression, falling in with Meghan's ways a lot.
  #3746  
Old 01-19-2020, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
Maybe the system isnít workable for him, but Iím sickened by the implication that people who love him, who have done their best for him, are toxic and to be avoided. His father? His brother? If weíre wrong, then he needs to show it, because right now it looks like an utter rejection of everyone and everything he knows.
H&M did not say it's toxic, only tablouds used that word, makes a difference.
  #3747  
Old 01-19-2020, 03:34 PM
Lilyflo's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
From various media outlets, but first from People

https://people.com/royals/meghan-mar...mid-bad-blood/
There's no quote in that article from Harry where he "labels everything about the monarchy and BRF as toxic".

If he did say that, it would be incredibly shocking so I think we should establish if & where he made this dreadful accusation about his own family.

The article contains something from an un-named 'family friend' who says “There is so much bad blood in that family — it’s toxic.” Those aren't Harry's words though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
On another note, good...I’m glad the Queen is angry...though I’m so sorry for her.
How do you know the Queen is angry?
  #3748  
Old 01-19-2020, 03:36 PM
Serene Highness
 
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The Duke and Duchess of Sussex to Step Back as Senior Royals: January 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
Maybe the system isnít workable for him, but Iím sickened by the implication that people who love him, who have done their best for him, are toxic and to be avoided. His father? His brother? If weíre wrong, then he needs to show it, because right now it looks like an utter rejection of everyone and everything he knows.


Iím disregarding the word toxic. Itís not coming out of their mouths directly. Itís from a source.

Toxic is a popular buzzword. Itís meant to get sympathy. In order for me to take that seriously- Iíd have to know what exactly was toxic by their definition out of their own mouths. Otherwise itís a just word used to get attention and sympathy at a time when theyíve caused a lot of hurt in a public stage.

Given that Meghan almost certainly disregarded some of the advice she was given because it wasnít what she wanted to hear, itís hard to say whatís toxic or unsupportive.

Iíd say ignoring the media was advice she was likely given by someone, good advice imo, that she disregarded- and now everyone is unsupportive because the response sheís given isnít what she wants. (Iím not saying thatís how she felt. I donít know. Itís just a possibility.)

what did she get vs what did she want? What was her expectation? It could have been a culture clash. Thatís highly likely based on her comments about British stiff upper lips. Maybe her idea of support was getting to personally argue about every single unfair article. Maybe she wanted the BRF to issue a supportive statement every time someone was mean to her. Who knows.

I donít know what happened behind closed doors, but ďsourcesĒ making blanket statements using buzz words does nothing for me. It doesnít make me sympathetic. I was sympathetic- right up until the interview and everything that followed.

For all I know, all of this is just damage control- IF in fact this is even the story Harry and Meghan want to sell to the public anyway. Which isnít clear. Theyíd have to say it themselves.
  #3749  
Old 01-19-2020, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I read somewhere recently that Charles found botht sons rather volatile.. taking after Diana in that respect. But WIliam seems to have calmed and become stable and postivlely dull. Harry has gone more volatile IMO. I never thought he would walk out on royal life.. I thought maybe Meghan might htough it wasn't all that likely. never thought the 2 of them would go.
Charles is known to have quite a hot temper himself. It's not all Diana with their tempers.

You never thought Harry would leave...have you missed the times he's said in interviews he's thought of leaving etc?



LaRae
  #3750  
Old 01-19-2020, 03:42 PM
Countessmeout's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eskimo View Post
I think that this is where it is somewhat headed....The same formula as most countries that have a ceremonial head of state (President) and a backup (Vice-President) if the head of state cannot do their job.

So, by the time William comes to the throne, I expect royal duties will be limited to him, Kate and George and the others will have to go fend for themselves off the public purse.
What public purse??? Only the queen gets funding in the form of the sovereigns grant. No other royal is on the public purse. Any funding for the other royals comes from the queen or Charles.

I think the public will be giddy about fewer royals until realization sets in.

-less royals don't mean less money. The dive reigns grant continues as is
-less royals means significantly less work. So paying as much money for not even 1/4 of the old work.

In reality republicans already think there is little value to them. And many people think royals are lazy. Anyone seriously think saying we want all the money but you get less of us, is going to make the public happy??? Yeah no.

The reality is the royals need to be Seen and seen working to be relevant to the public. Being Royal is more then the ceremonial roles. It's supporting charities and the businesses in the country.

The Uk also has the commonwealth, the queen being queen 16 countries. The U.K. Had very different needs then the likes of Norway or Sweden.


Honestly Beatrice and Eugenie would be the perfect royals to take on. The perfect example of the modernized royal family.

-they continue their jobs and support themselves
-like the wessexes give them security only when on official duties
-if they need some help a bit of compensation for an assistant from SG


And it woukd be the model for the next generation. Louis and Charlotte woukd be expected to do as the York girls. They woukd know from the start so they woukd get education and jobs. But they woukd also have a royal role, with patronages and be at certain events but not as a full time job.

It works in the Netherlands. The Kings brothers knew they would not be working royals so their education and career choices reflected that.


As for Archie if he remains in Canada, he wouldn't be the first peer living in Canada. And there is no saying he wouldn't choose to call UK home. He will have dual citizenship. And the family is planning on being in the Uk every year for good amount of time. It's not like he will forget he is British.
  #3751  
Old 01-19-2020, 04:00 PM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Charles is known to have quite a hot temper himself. It's not all Diana with their tempers.

You never thought Harry would leave...have you missed the times he's said in interviews he's thought of leaving etc?



LaRae
I wasn't talking about tempers but about swinging around and being changeable. Volatile doesn't really mean hot tempered, but erratic.
Yes I have heard that he talked about leaving at times but I did not take it very seriously. Royals often claim that they didn't ask for the job and that it is a lto harder than it looks and so on....
  #3752  
Old 01-19-2020, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erin9 View Post
I hope not. That is very unhealthy- to hold grudges. And, it will certainly be difficult to mend their relationship if thatís both of their mindsets.
Indeed it will. I initially blamed William for not being as supportive as Harry was with he and Kate, but given that he was merely expressing concern about moving so rapidly (and maybe about Meghan herself) and given Harryís tendency to cut people off, Iíve changed my thinking. Then there is the fact that Harry seemingly resents his brother for getting all the attention while he is pushed out. Iím sure Charles is desperate to reconcile them, but he might just need to wait for time to hopefully heal all wounds.

Quote:
How do you know the Queen is angry?
I posted the link to Ingrid Sewardís article. I agree with her analysis.

About the word ďtoxicĒ, thatís true - I canít argue with you, youíre all making good points. However, where thereís smoke, thereís fire. Too many accounts report on Harry being unhappy with not getting his own ďcourtĒ and being pushed out, added to Meghanís complaint about not being supported, for me not to take this seriously.
  #3753  
Old 01-19-2020, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I wasn't talking about tempers but about swinging around and being changeable. Volatile doesn't really mean hot tempered, but erratic.
Yes I have heard that he talked about leaving at times but I did not take it very seriously. Royals often claim that they didn't ask for the job and that it is a lto harder than it looks and so on....
You have just described Charles (based on biographies) he absolutely blows his top, rages (to the point of throwing things) then is fine. His sons come by their natures honestly as we say here, and from both sides.

I can understand ignoring an off hand remark/joking remark about leaving..but not when it's said in more than a couple interviews over a few years. Ppl need to stop blaming this situation on Meghan. Harry gave fair warning for years and ramped it up after the situation continued.



LaRae
  #3754  
Old 01-19-2020, 04:12 PM
Majesty
 
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How would Harry expect his "own court"? he is the second son.. He shared staff with William when they were younger but as they grew older, and Will got married etc, they began to do less work together. But I can't quite see how Harry would expect a court.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
You have just described Charles (based on biographies) he absolutely blows his top, rages (to the point of throwing things) then is fine. His sons come by their natures honestly as we say here, and from both sides.

I can understand ignoring an off hand remark/joking remark about leaving..but not when it's said in more than a couple interviews over a few years. Ppl need to stop blaming this situation on Meghan. Harry gave fair warning for years and ramped it up after the situation continued.



LaRae
That's havigna hot temper.. not being volatile.
and as for Harry, if he was really constantly complaining about wanting to leave, why didn't he do something about it? Why wait till he had made a commitment to his full time royal duties, married, gotten a home, and a title and given the impression he was settled down and ready to do his job? WHy didn't he tell the queen before he got married that he had grave doubts about whether he really wanted the royal job, and that he would now marry Meghan - NOT take a royal title and go away and make his own life?
  #3755  
Old 01-19-2020, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erin9 View Post
I hope not. That is very unhealthy- to hold grudges. And, it will certainly be difficult to mend their relationship if thatís both of their mindsets.
Indeed it will. I initially blamed William for not being as supportive as Harry was with he and Kate, but given that he was merely expressing concern about moving so rapidly (and maybe about Meghan herself) and given Harryís tendency to cut people off, Iíve changed my thinking. Then there is the fact that Harry seemingly resents his brother for getting all the attention while he is pushed out. Iím sure Charles is desperate to reconcile them, but he might just need to wait for time to hopefully heal all wounds.

Quote:
How do you know the Queen is angry?
I posted the link to Ingrid Sewardís article. I agree with her analysis.

About the word ďtoxicĒ, thatís true - I canít argue with you, youíre all making good points. However, where thereís smoke, thereís fire. Too many accounts report on Harry being unhappy with not getting his own ďcourtĒ and being pushed out, added to Meghanís complaint about not being supported, for me not to take this seriously.

Quote:
what did she get vs what did she want? What was her expectation? It could have been a culture clash. Thatís highly likely based on her comments about British stiff upper lips. Maybe her idea of support was getting to personally argue about every single unfair article. Maybe she wanted the BRF to issue a supportive statement every time someone was mean to her. Who knows.
This is why I donít think she recognized the support she was getting. She probably expected people to constantly put their arms around her, but thatís just not how it is in the BRF - perhaps not even among the British people, Iím not sure. Maybe she expects everyone to know whatís being said about her, in the media or social media, but how can they when Iím sure theyíve learned not to pay attention to that sort of thing. If she was struggling, she should have said something - people arenít mind readers. I just donít think Meghan had an open mind about the life she was entering into. She was supposedly close to Charles; he would have been the perfect person to talk to ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
You have just described Charles (based on biographies) he absolutely blows his top, rages (to the point of throwing things) then is fine. His sons come by their natures honestly as we say here, and from both sides.

I can understand ignoring an off hand remark/joking remark about leaving..but not when it's said in more than a couple interviews over a few years. Ppl need to stop blaming this situation on Meghan. Harry gave fair warning for years and ramped it up after the situation continued.


LaRae
I agree with this, both points.

I hold both Meghan and Harry responsible, though if itís true about him feeling as if he was being pushed out, being upset that Charles sided with the Queen in not giving them a separate ďcourtĒ at Windsor..then Iím confused.
  #3756  
Old 01-19-2020, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
That's havigna hot temper.. not being volatile.
and as for Harry, if he was really constantly complaining about wanting to leave, why didn't he do something about it? Why wait till he had made a commitment to his full time royal duties, married, gotten a home, and a title and given the impression he was settled down and ready to do his job? WHy didn't he tell the queen before he got married that he had grave doubts about whether he really wanted the royal job, and that he would now marry Meghan - NOT take a royal title and go away and make his own life?
I'm just using your own description of volatile.

He did do something about it..he's left. We don't know behind the scenes what all he's done before it came to this.

I believe they had full intentions of settling down and doing his job. I think the situation just went so negative for them they felt unable to continue. We know this conversation (based on the Queen's words) went on for months.

So those folks who didn't care for them (and have been saying they need to go away) don't have to worry about it any longer. They are gone.



LaRae
  #3757  
Old 01-19-2020, 04:22 PM
Majesty
 
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I doubt if he seriously meant it.. if he had, then he cuodl have talked to charles and the queen abuot it before he got married. that would have been the perfect time to leave.. before he was committed to a home, a title etc. Unless he really DID believe he was going to have a "court" and gold plated wash basin of his own -.
  #3758  
Old 01-19-2020, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
How would Harry expect his "own court"? he is the second son.. He shared staff with William when they were younger but as they grew older, and Will got married etc, they began to do less work together. But I can't quite see how Harry would expect a court.
I put that in quotes for a reason. Harry wanted he and Meghan to have the same kind of set up that William and Kate do, after their offices separated

Quote:
I believe they had full intentions of settling down and doing his job. I think the situation just went so negative for them they felt unable to continue. We know this conversation (based on the Queen's words) went on for months
So if that’s the case, the question is “what went wrong”?
  #3759  
Old 01-19-2020, 04:22 PM
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Something interesting I picked up from another forum...

Whatever property they buy in North America it will be easy to find out who is on the title (the information is openly available) and if they use a shell company to buy the press will investigate it to find out where the funds are really coming from. There will be no escaping the press they don't like for them
  #3760  
Old 01-19-2020, 04:29 PM
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@Betsypaige Thank you for the replies - I appreciate them. This thread is moving so fast it's hard to keep up with the difference between actual quotes from BRF members, quotes from 'sources' via royal reporters, opinion pieces by others, our own opinions etc etc. It's helpful if we can all try to be clear about that (myself included of course).
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