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  #3061  
Old 01-18-2020, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
The thing is that no where have they stated that they'd *not* be continuing the roles they already have in place. There is no indication that any of the roles they have now will go by the wayside and need someone else to pick them up.

This is what I think is a huge misconception in all of this. They'll not walk away from any roles, charities or patronages that they already have but perhaps not take on so many more going into the future. Its explicitly stated that they plan to keep on supporting the Queen and the monarchy and also launch their foundation. There'll be more time "away" to focus on their family.
but they are meant to be full time. How can they do the Commonwealth role, which will involve travelling and meetings in London, if they are trying to earn a income, probably in the US and Canada? How can they keep on "supporting the RF," when the queen is gone and Charles is now reliyig on WIll and Kate and his increasingly elderly set of cousins and siblings...
THe difference was obvious to me when the QUeen took Meghan to an engagement early on and she and Harry were thrown in the deep end with royal work. The queen was willing to give Wiliam and Kate some time to themselves but by this time, now, the time isn't there. She is getting older, Philip is retire and frail.. and not able to do anything much. the Sussexes were not going to have the chance to move into royal life slowly... and Harry should have realised that.
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  #3062  
Old 01-18-2020, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
but they are meant to be full time. How can they do the Commonwealth role, which will involve travelling and meetings in London, if they are trying to earn a income, probably in the US and Canada? How can they keep on "supporting the RF," when the queen is gone and Charles is now reliyig on WIll and Kate and his increasingly elderly set of cousins and siblings...
THe difference was obvious to me when the QUeen took Meghan to an engagement early on and she and Harry were thrown in the deep end with royal work. The queen was willing to give Wiliam and Kate some time to themselves but by this time, now, the time isn't there. She is getting older, Philip is retire and frail.. and not able to do anything much. the Sussexes were not going to have the chance to move into royal life slowly... and Harry should have realised that.
There was no need for Meghan to be full-time though. She could have just done joint visits with others because the things she's done on her own have been additional work and IMO could have been delayed. It's all been too much too soon & now it's all a mess.
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  #3063  
Old 01-18-2020, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Lilyflo View Post
There was no need for Meghan to be full-time though. She could have just done joint visits with others because the things she's done on her own have been additional work and IMO could have been delayed. It's all been too much too soon & now it's all a mess.
Im assuming the queen DID think that Meghan needed to be full time.... She herself is now in her 90s, some of her cousins who help are in their 80s. Even Anne is about 70. (ANdrew has alos gone from his patronages).
The varous cousins are at an age where they might become ill or pass away suddenly and then the RF is down another helper. Charles when he becomes King will probably find that his helpers drop in number so I think he and the queen were counting on Will and Kate and Harry and if H had a wife Harry's wife.. would definitely all be required to pitch in.
And I don't think that Meg herself showed any reluctance. She could have been left out of the Africa tour as Archie was still very young.. she could have given herself that break and stayed home with him.. so I don't see this as a hard nosed RF pushing her into work she ddi'nt feel up or before she felt ready to do it.. but from the time of the Africa tour she and H seem to have been getting depressed and stressed and looking for a way out.
  #3064  
Old 01-18-2020, 07:04 AM
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An interesting article from the Economist -of all places- about Marx and the Sussex couple as a sign of exces of capitalism:

https://www.time24.news/2020/01/the-...rnational.html

original source: https://www.economist.com/britain/20...eghan-and-marx

Some quotes:


Quote:
The Sussex couple are doing something new: adopting capitalism in its most crude and modern form, global rather than national, virtual rather than solid, driven to constantly produce new fads.
Predicting that their brand needs more drama:


Quote:
Brand management experts whisper that Harry and Meghan are interested in preserving the integrity of their brand. But the logic of 21st century capitalism is against a peaceful settlement. They will need more than Prince Harry’s inheritance, estimated at between £ 20 million and £ 30 million, to keep up with the global super rich.
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  #3065  
Old 01-18-2020, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
but they are meant to be full time. How can they do the Commonwealth role, which will involve travelling and meetings in London, if they are trying to earn a income, probably in the US and Canada? How can they keep on "supporting the RF," when the queen is gone and Charles is now reliyig on WIll and Kate and his increasingly elderly set of cousins and siblings...
THe difference was obvious to me when the QUeen took Meghan to an engagement early on and she and Harry were thrown in the deep end with royal work. The queen was willing to give Wiliam and Kate some time to themselves but by this time, now, the time isn't there. She is getting older, Philip is retire and frail.. and not able to do anything much. the Sussexes were not going to have the chance to move into royal life slowly... and Harry should have realised that.
I agree with this...oh, and their website referenced the Queen. What happens when Charles and then William is King? I’m already skeptical about Harry’s devotion to his dad - and right now he’s barely speaking to his brother. They are going to need him - the Queen will be gone, her cousins are elderly, Andrew is out of the way..It would be nice to think that Harry would support his family, especially since he’s apparently always been worried and insecure about his place in the family, abut perhaps not being valued enough...
  #3066  
Old 01-18-2020, 07:16 AM
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I found this article - it’s terrific, and sets out why Meghan and Harry shouldn’t expect to be greeted by Canada with “we”re so happy to have you, eh” and open arms. I recommend reading it in its entirety. I forget who, but someone in this board mentioned that Harry didn’t come across as someone who’d fit easily into Canadian life; that POV is bolstered here. Good points, too, about Charles.


Quote:
The guessing is that the Queen’s astute palace staff would have at least questioned the Canadian prime minister’s office or privy council office about any issues with the Sussexes coming here, and I’m sure they were given a very Canadian answer: “That’s wonderful, we’re happy to help and have them here.” But there are other implications—security costs, (which are transparent in Canada and opaque in the United Kingdom), potential constitutional conflict with the Canadian vice-regal world and potential immigration concerns.


The Queen and Prince Charles have constitutional status here. But the rest of the family doesn’t—the rest of the family are foreigners.

......

And all royal family visits are done with the understanding that the royals will depart to the U.K. in due course and not become a fixture in Canadian life. That’s how the system works—what Ryerson University’s Professor David Smith, one of Canada’s leading scholars on the constitutional monarchy, calls “the invisible Crown.”

Harry and Meghan are popular in Canada, according to polls. But the excitement about them coming to live here overlooks the fact that Harry’s interest in Canada is thin. He’s a nice man, but he has declined every attempt over the past decade to take on Canadian patronages, head up Canadian charities and accept appointments as colonel-in-chief of various Canadian military units, including the Canadian Rangers. His website shows no connection to any specific Canadian patronage or charity or organization. He does not speak French. He has limited—if any—understanding of the country.

There has been breathy talk of appointing him governor general to replace the uncharismatic Julie Payette. It could be done but it would take us backward into our colonial past when members of the royal family and other British grandees came over the Atlantic to represent the sovereign. The optics of replacing a francophone woman and astronaut from Quebec in Rideau Hall with a unilingual British prince and an American movie star are worse than awful.

The Sussexes, when they move here, must come as private citizens. And rather than being enamoured with the fleeting star power of the Sussexes, Ottawa should be focusing on helping Canadians get to know Charles, the Prince of Wales, the man who will one day be their king. He cannot make private visits to Canada. He only can come here at the invitation of the federal government. Most Canadians’ knowledge of him is filtered through the British press, which has its own bizarre agenda and viewpoint on the royal family.
https://www.macleans.ca/opinion/quee...s-around-here/
  #3067  
Old 01-18-2020, 07:19 AM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
I agree with this...oh, and their website referenced the Queen. What happens when Charles and then William is King? I’m already skeptical about Harry’s devotion to his dad - and right now he’s barely speaking to his brother. They are going to need him - the Queen will be gone, her cousins are elderly, Andrew is out of the way..It would be nice to think that Harry would support his family, especially since he’s apparently always been worried and insecure about his place in the family, abut perhaps not being valued enough...
I dotn know why he should feel he's not being valued enough. I think Charles has been pretty indulgent iwht him and William when they were younger.. because he didn't want to be too tough with them when they had tragically lost their mother so young and also because he himself was a busy man and while he tired to be there for them, perhaps felt he could not always be with them in their teens. Harry has had a privileged life.. compared with most of us.. and as a second son he had more freedom intially than WIlliam. He was able to have a full time army career for some years and to go into combat. WIlliam could not have doen that, and so I think Will did not feel the same commitment to his brief spells learning the various branches of the services. But he wanted to use his flying skills in the Air ambulance job and was able to do so.
Harry knows that as a younger son, he wont be King and will need to be there as the support tot his older brother.. but if that really bothered him, why not talk to Will and Charles years ago and sort this out? Say "I don't want to be the younger son, doing work but not ever going to be King and I want to be like say the Yorks, and not be a full time royal ever."
I don't think that the queen, Chalres and William would have been happy but it would have givene them time to try and work out how to manage all that..and find a replacment for Harry...
Besides, another point is taht Harry while he has made mistakes has usually been very popular with the press and public, as a nice young man, with a warm heart and a lively personality. He didn't get bad press (except when he deserved it) until he went into this "very serious and depressed and mixed up" mode...
  #3068  
Old 01-18-2020, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I dotn know why he should feel he's not being valued enough. I think Charles has been pretty indulgent iwht him and William when they were younger.. because he didn't want to be too tough with them when they had tragically lost their mother so young and also because he himself was a busy man and while he tired to be there for them, perhaps felt he could not always be with them in their teens. Harry has had a privileged life.. compared with most of us.. and as a second son he had more freedom intially than WIlliam. He was able to have a full time army career for some years and to go into combat. WIlliam could not have doen that, and so I think Will did not feel the same commitment to his brief spells learning the various branches of the services. But he wanted to use his flying skills in the Air ambulance job and was able to do so.
Harry knows that as a younger son, he wont be King and will need to be there as the support tot his older brother.. but if that really bothered him, why not talk to Will and Charles years ago and sort this out? Say "I don't want to be the younger son, doing work but not ever going to be King and I want to be like say the Yorks, and not be a full time royal ever."
I don't think that the queen, Chalres and William would have been happy but it would have givene them time to try and work out how to manage all that..and find a replacment for Harry...
Besides, another point is taht Harry while he has made mistakes has usually been very popular with the press and public, as a nice young man, with a warm heart and a lively personality. He didn't get bad press (except when he deserved it) until he went into this "very serious and depressed and mixed up" mode...
I guess that’s always an issue with “the spare”, thinking he will be overlooked in favor of the heir...It seems apparent that Charles always intended for Harry to be part of a “slimmed down” monarchy, so who knows why Harry felt that way? It’s confusing because at the same time, he’s never wanted to be part of “the life” ...so, which is it?! He’s clearly loved and needed, so I guess it’s the latter...but then don’t make a stink about not being included in certain photos
  #3069  
Old 01-18-2020, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
I guess that’s always an issue with “the spare”, thinking he will be overlooked in favor of the heir...It seems apparent that Charles always intended for Harry to be part of a “slimmed down” monarchy, so who knows why Harry felt that way? It’s confusing because at the same time, he’s never wanted to be part of “the life” ...so, which is it?! He’s clearly loved and needed, so I guess it’s the latter...but then don’t make a stink about not being included in certain photos
I doubt if he was bothered about this "photos issue" that people bring up. He must have known there are times when the queen puts out certain photos to emphaisise the continuity of the monarchy and that means a focus on her direct heirs. He has to understand that, he has been a royal all his life.. And if he ISNT happy with being part of the RF, well then he really cant complain if he is not always "front and center". I think that while Harry used to give an impression of being a "jolly lad" without much brain but a good heart, who enjoyed life.. perhaps underneath it he was always a mixed up messed up young man who found royal life a strain.. but tried his best with it.. And who longed for love and appreciation from the public and in private..
I did get a vibe from him at times that he was a bit over anxious to be "Lovalabe popular Harry" with the public..adn so when the press and public began to criticise him and his new wife he reacted badly...
And alos, I think that perhaps with Meghan he DID long for a loving wife who coud put up with all the bad side of being royal and who would love him devotedly.. He longed for the sort of happy marriage in his private life that his brother has developed.. but he feared he would never get it as the women he seriously courted seemed to shy off from the idea of marrying a Royal... When he met Meghan and she seemed to love him and to be able to cope with the whole diffuclt side of royal life.. he was relieved and happy and rushed into marriage.. but perhaps he didn't consider that Meghan was influenced a bit by his status or that she didn't seem fazed by Royal life because she ddi not understand it. I thnk that Megan DID without meaning to deceive.. give him the impression that she was able to cope with it all because she DIDNT know England or the RF and did not know about the downside of such a life.. So, it all came as a shock to her what Royal and British life is really like.
When she got married and found the tabloids were hostile, the public weren't always kind, the RF were friendly but formal, there were a lot of expectations of proper behaviour, and not that much glamour, she rather freaked out and coud not take it... And I think that maybe all this terrifies poor Harry, that he is scared and feels he can't lose his adored wife but he is afraid that she's going to run away or end up in some disaster like his mother did. SO now he'll do anything that he thinks Is necessary to please her and keep their marriage together.
  #3070  
Old 01-18-2020, 09:14 AM
ACO ACO is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
I guess that’s always an issue with “the spare”, thinking he will be overlooked in favor of the heir...It seems apparent that Charles always intended for Harry to be part of a “slimmed down” monarchy, so who knows why Harry felt that way? It’s confusing because at the same time, he’s never wanted to be part of “the life” ...so, which is it?! He’s clearly loved and needed, so I guess it’s the latter...but then don’t make a stink about not being included in certain photos
Where have Harry or Meghan said anything about that picture? The only people going on about it is the likes of us and the media grasping at straws. Let’s not make up things they did to illustrate opinions.
  #3071  
Old 01-18-2020, 09:32 AM
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Some of you will say yes, the others may start to think about this statistic and how it impacts us (and Meghan and Harry...)


https://www.theguardian.com/global/2...es-as-positive
  #3072  
Old 01-18-2020, 09:33 AM
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https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcas...=1000462939144

Discussion with Victoria Arbiter and Omid Scobie from yesterday.
  #3073  
Old 01-18-2020, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Some of you will say yes, the others may start to think about this statistic and how it impacts us (and Meghan and Harry...)
That is 'as nothing' to what they are getting now...
  #3074  
Old 01-18-2020, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kataryn View Post
Some of you will say yes, the others may start to think about this statistic and how it impacts us (and Meghan and Harry...)


https://www.theguardian.com/global/2...es-as-positive
I don't doubt it, though I'm not sure it's fair to include stories published since their announcement. The numbers for Kate were more balanced during the same time, but I'd like to see an analysis of Kate's headline's at an equivalent time - the first two years after her relationship with William became public, or the first year after their marriage.
  #3075  
Old 01-18-2020, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I
I did get a vibe from him at times that he was a bit over anxious to be "Lovalabe popular Harry" with the public..adn so when the press and public began to criticise him and his new wife he reacted badly...
I wonder - just speculating here. if this isn't the problem at the heart of the matter. The problem has always seemed that Harry is upset the people are not seeing Meghan like he sees her. That she isn't as loved by the everyone as much as he wants her to be. Harry doesn't seem to understand why the public isn't all hearts and kisses and overwhelming support and appreciation. And I wonder if it is the same as the family. Meghan might feel the same - she might just feel under appreciated. but really surely they understand that you can expect everyone on the planet to act or think the way you do.
  #3076  
Old 01-18-2020, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Claire View Post
I wonder - just speculating here. if this isn't the problem at the heart of the matter. The problem has always seemed that Harry is upset the people are not seeing Meghan like he sees her. That she isn't as loved by the everyone as much as he wants her to be. Harry doesn't seem to understand why the public isn't all hearts and kisses and overwhelming support and appreciation. And I wonder if it is the same as the family. Meghan might feel the same - she might just feel under appreciated. but really surely they understand that you can expect everyone on the planet to act or think the way you do.
Harry has been pretty clear as to what the issue is, he's publically stated it more than once. Nothing at all has been said about ppl not loving Meghan or seeing her like he does.



LaRae
  #3077  
Old 01-18-2020, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by UglyAmerican View Post
I don't doubt it, though I'm not sure it's fair to include stories published since their announcement. The numbers for Kate were more balanced during the same time, but I'd like to see an analysis of Kate's headline's at an equivalent time - the first two years after her relationship with William became public, or the first year after their marriage.
I don't really get the argument. If you include the whole extend royal family - I would expect 90 per cent of all Edward's media to be negative and maybe 70 % of the Duke of Edinburgh. if we look at Andrew this month. Sophie's maybe 50 %. So what is this saying all reporting must be supportive, handclapping and glowing in praise. Is this where journalist is going now.

So her reporting wasn't fair - neither is the world but sometimes it is unfair in your advantage. Welcome to being a public figure.
  #3078  
Old 01-18-2020, 10:26 AM
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This is now. Everyone gets a hard time once the honeymoon period's over - Waity Katie, Sophie and the Fake Sheikh, the Duchess of Pork. What about all that ridiculous fuss over Beatrice's hat? It was only a hat, but the press went on about it for weeks. And Camilla must really, really love Prince Charles to have hung around with the things that the press were saying about her, whereas it's mostly favourable now. If Meghan had given it a bit longer, I think things would have settled down for her too. And I bet most people feel under-appreciated in their jobs!


I think Doria Ragland is wonderful. Whilst Thomas and Samantha Markle have been shouting their mouths off to anyone who'll listen, she has not said a word.
  #3079  
Old 01-18-2020, 10:27 AM
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I think a few salient points are being missed in the Meghan should have had more time to adjust before being thrown in head first debate.

Harry was born famous and has spent his life resenting the attention. Meghan was born a nobody and has spent her lifeseeking fame and attention. Meghan is an actress. She is a seasoned pro in front of the cameras and crowds and she is natural and experienced speaker. She wanted to “hit the ground running” and why wouldn’t she? She married into the most famous family in the world and was now the center of world attention. No television or movie role in the universe could eclipse this platform of fame. There was NO way she was going to sit on the sidelines and miss her spotlight. Mr. De Mille she was not only ready for the camera, she didn’t need you to direct her. Step aside.

Meghan’s problem within this institution isn’t the media negativity. It’s the structure and the limitations of her role in it. I think she considers herself and Harry as progressive Superstars, and she expected to be put front and center in modernizing the monarchy and bringing their causes front and center. I really don’t think she ever considered that she was only going to be a minor player on a much larger stage with more important players. Always having to stand or walk behind other family members and not being front and center wasn’t going to work for her. It was doomed from the get go because the Queen, Prince Charles, William and George were the real stars of this show. Harry and Meghan are support cast, which is not the role she had signed up for. The fact that Meghan doesn’t understand the monarchy, the country or the history and traditions is clear. Nor does she care to.

Bottom line is I don’t for a moment believe Meghan was thrown into the role before she was ready or that the media intrusion, racial slurs or protection for their Son was the the reasons they want to step back or leave. I believe they want a larger role in the world stage and they want to direct it, star in it and reap the financial rewards from their adoring public. Being a mere Royal isn’t enough. They want it all....or at least Meghan does. I believe Harry just wants to make her happy but at the cost of making others unhappy.

My two cents for what it’s worth.
  #3080  
Old 01-18-2020, 10:27 AM
Majesty
 
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Originally Posted by Claire View Post
I wonder - just speculating here. if this isn't the problem at the heart of the matter. The problem has always seemed that Harry is upset the people are not seeing Meghan like he sees her. That she isn't as loved by the everyone as much as he wants her to be. Harry doesn't seem to understand why the public isn't all hearts and kisses and overwhelming support and appreciation. And I wonder if it is the same as the family. Meghan might feel the same - she might just feel under appreciated. but really surely they understand that you can expect everyone on the planet to act or think the way you do.
I think that he probably sees it for botht of them that he think they're not as appreciated as they should be. But people in the RF have usually tended to work on the assumption that the public and press can be very fickle (and that the press are jut there for making money...) that the public can love you one day and hate or dislike you the next.
I remember thinking a few years ago, I THNK It was before H was involved with Meghan that I found him a bit irritating because although likable, there was an element of trying too hard to be loved during his tours. As I've said, perhaps because of his unhappy loss in childhood, having a mother who was under a lot of stress, a somewhat distant father and then abruptly losing the beloved mother...I think that loss traumatised him very badly, and as he's sadi, it took a long time before he sought help for it.. and I feel that he is still looking for love from his wife.. who loves him but can't cope with Royal life any more.. and from the public who.. are not people who can really really love him.. and who may lose interest. So he has now gotten angry and upset and is trying to save his marriage by moving away, and get away from the British press..and try and make a new life for himself and his family...
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