The Duke and Duchess of Sussex to Step Back as Senior Royals: January 2020

[QueenMathilde]

Originally Posted by ACO

I am sure we will learn of their title status this week. Harry will be heading back after his engagement on Thursday. No doubt they want it as sorted out as possible by then.

My guess: No HRH but will maintain Duke and Duchess of Sussex

I read parliament has to strip them of their titles. The queen can't do it except for the HRH.

[evolvingdoors]

Originally Posted by Purrs

I agree with the poster you are replying to. I do care & I'd object. Although I'm a Canadian citizen who was born and raised here, I have 2 family members who were both immigrants (one parent and my son-in-law). In particular my son-in-law and daughter worked darn hard (she applied as his spousal sponsor) to get his permanent residency status and were in limbo over 3 years waiting for approval of her application on his behalf. During that waiting period, he could not work legally or use public healthcare. My daughter's member of parliament told her that of 90% of his requests for assistance from constitutents were related to immigration.

IMO, most Canadians who were born here don't know how difficult and the process involved to acquire permanent residency status. Unless we've seen it through people we know, we tend to take our immigration process for granted and don't realize how stringent it and time consuming it is. They also take citizenship for granted. (Although as I've pointed out you don't need Canadian citizenship to legally live here permanently although it gives you a few more rights than permanent residents.)

In Toronto (the largest city) now, the majority of residents were not born in Canada. (over 50% now). Vancouver also has a very high proportion of residents not born in Canada. Many people in Canada are immigrants themselves or have family members were were and therefore it would go over very poorly on any government who gave the Sussexes special treatment.

To be fair though, Canada is still one of the easiest Anglo-Saxon countries to immigrate to, compared to the US. But yes, it still takes years and in recent years Canada has become increasingly selective. The PR program has had its points drawing fairly high in recent years. So high, even I won’t be eligible, and I studied and work in a profession that is desperately needed.
The easiest way actually to immigrate is through a student visa. All you need is two years and than you can get 3 years of work approval, after one year into that you can apply for PR status and begin the citizenship process; this still is a long and expensive! process that takes about 5-10 years until you earn your citizenship.
Immigration is not for the weak.

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by Nico

So like divorcees : Henry, duke of Sussex and Meghan, duchess of Sussex ?
Seems a bit drastic for the Queen i think.

Technically Their Graces The Duke and Duchess of Sussex .

I am still skeptical though and don’t see them losing the HRH.

[Lumutqueen]

Originally Posted by ACO

I am sure we will learn of their title status this week. Harry will be heading back after his engagement on Thursday. No doubt they want it as sorted out as possible by then.

My guess: No HRH but will maintain Duke and Duchess of Sussex

No HRH, but keeping the peerage is fraught with issue. Henry only got his dukedom because he's a member of the royal family. No longer a member, why keep the peerage?

Originally Posted by Nico

So like divorcees : Henry, duke of Sussex and Meghan, duchess of Sussex ?
Seems a bit drastic for the Queen i think.

Not like divorcees, as they're not divorced from one another. They will be The Duke and Duchess of Sussex. However considered the dukedom is a royal peerage, that comes with it's own issues.

[Moonmaiden23]

Originally Posted by BaiSoSo

The firing of the person who did it was too little too late. The spin was going to be negative against the Sussexes and they did their best to prevent that. Besides, it was just the latest in leaks from the Palaces when it came to Harry and Meghan. The couple per Tom Bradby (sp?) was already reluctant to put the plan in writing because they were concerned about it leaking... the Queen, Charles & William (whoever received the plan) should have done more to prevent it from happening to begin with show the Sussexes that they could trust them.



How can you say that Meghan and Harry shouldn't have married and that she isn't the type of wife he needs even though she is intelligent (and my words loving towards him). How do you know what type of wife he needs? As I said before Harry mentioned before how he disliked royal life.... maybe Meghan was exactly the wife he needed....one that could help him transition from a life he didn't like to one that is better suited for him. Why would he have to make amends to his grandparents for leaving the family business? People are just using the age of the Queen & Prince to guilt trip Harry....not a good look.

I hope that Harry and Meghan are successful in their new life/roles and that they have a happy marriage and that Archie grows up with two loving parents in the home. Why would anyone want differently for this family?

Because it takes more than beauty, intelligence, charm and even LOVE to make a marriage successful.

All of the recent failed Royal marriages in the BRF(except the one in 1981) started off as passionate love stories after all.

From my observances of Harry's character and personality since he was born, and from what I have read and seen of Meghan since she entered public life, I don't think they should have married one another in these circumstances.

Perhaps if Harry was not born into the life he was born into, perhaps if Meghan was not a free spirited Hollywood actress, perhaps if they had know one another longer....as it is, I don't think it will go the distance and I say that with great sadness. There is now an adorable and innocent child involved.

You disagree, which is of course your right. Time will tell.

[O-H Anglophile]

Originally Posted by Lumutqueen

This is a genuine question, and not asked lightly, can anyone point me or give me any articles, videos or statements from Henry supporting his sister-in-law during the “Waity Katie” an such years...

I’m not asking to start a fight, I’m asking for genuine information purposes. Because this is one of the main points of this sibling relationship breakdown.

I found this from January 22, 2013--

'The high profile royal added that he felt it was “very unfair” that his brother Prince William and Kate Middleton were “forced to publicize” her pregnancy, “but that’s just the media for you.”

Still, the future uncle noted that he’s “thrilled for both of them.”'

https://www.businessinsider.com/prin...taliban-2013-1

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by evolvingdoors

To be fair though, Canada is still one of the easiest Anglo-Saxon countries to immigrate to, compared to the US. But yes, it still takes years and in recent years Canada has become increasingly selective. The PR program has had its points drawing fairly high in recent years. So high, even I won’t be eligible, and I studied and work in a profession that is desperately needed.
The easiest way actually to immigrate is through a student visa. All you need is two years and than you can get 3 years of work approval, after one year into that you can apply for PR status and begin the citizenship process; this still is a long and expensive! process that takes about 5-10 years until you earn your citizenship.
Immigration is not for the weak.

Most people I know who went through graduate school in Canada ( including people from “ problematic countries” like Iran) got permanent residency and later citizenship without any major difficulty. True, they had PhDs in technical fields , but many people nowadays have degrees like that too and, in the US, mAny times they are turned down. I also know people who went through graduate school in the US, couldn’t stay there and are now settled in Canada or the UK.

So my anecdotal evidence is that it is easier to emigrate to the latter aforementioned countries.

[wyevale]

considered the dukedom is a royal peerage, that comes with it's own issues.

If the whole titled thing is really SO onerous to them, why not simply ask to me known as Mr and Mrs H Mountbatten-Windsor, in future ?

[O-H Anglophile]

This is an interesting article. It seems mostly balanced, offering different viewpoints.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/01/...s-a-disruptor/

[Betsypaige]

Originally Posted by Gawin

Priti Patel I am willing to believe but Piers Morgan???!!!! May as well quote Donald Duck!!!

Having said that...I think racism did play a part, at least for some reporters & the public, but I also believe the situation was much more nuanced than that. For example, I suspect some reporters & members of the public (and this forum) dislike Meghan's progressive "liberal" views.

When comparing the treatment of Meghan and Catherine you also need to keep in mind their own behavior. When Catherine entered the BRF she kept her head down and her mouth shut, to the point where she has been criticized as too bland. But I think she realized she had to do that as the new kid on the block. The new kid always gets the most scrutiny whether its at school, in the neighborhood, or at work. They're being watched to see how well they fit in, whether they follow or break the rules, what makes them tick, etc.

By doing this & biding her time I think Catherine avoided some of the scrutiny. But IMO Meghan jumped right in. She immediately took on causes that were important to her (understandable since she's very committed to helping others) and edited a magazine where she championed progressive women (yes, other members of the BRF have edited magazines but NOT right away). No one would ever call Meghan bland. But IMO that drew even more scrutiny her way. Once you voice your opinions you open yourself to criticism. After all you can't criticize someone's opinions if you don't know what they are.

For some Meghan may also have come across as too eager, the exact opposite of the understated British approach, and another reminder that she was (shudder!) an American. Let's face it, the spotlight already shone more brightly on Meghan than Catherine because Meghan wasn't simply the new kid (strike one), she was also different: biracial, American, actress, divorced, a self-proclaimed feminist (strike two, three, four, five, and six). The person who's different gets scrutinized more closely too.

Was it fair? No. And I'm happy to see the toxic tabloids are getting the comeuppance they deserve from the American press.

But unfortunately it is the way life works. I can't help but wonder how different things might be today if Meghan had slowly eased into her new role, watched, and waited, with a focus on the UK: cut ribbons, visit schools, meet and greet the people and let them see for themselves what a nice person you really are despite the nasty headlines, learn the ropes, etc.

I'm only speculating. Meghan and Harry both have a lot to offer & it's sad that it's come to this.

I agree with all of this.

I sympathize with Meghan insofar as I think the media was ridiculous in how they covered her; it did feel - and I defended her for a long time- like nothing she could do was right.

Overall, though, I don’t feel sorry for her in the least. She didn’t even give this a real go; instead she’s just “this isn’t for me, I have to leave”. She went into this marriage not only seemingly with no intention of modifying her behavior, but with every intention of trying to modify the institution within. That bothers me.

Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile

This is an interesting article. It seems mostly balanced, offering different viewpoints.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/01/...s-a-disruptor/

Good article - and I agree, fair. I said something very much like this above.

But if nothing else, it appears that William was right to wonder whether Meghan would fit in, because it turned out that she couldn’t, or that she didn’t want to after all. Of course, Meghan came into the marriage as a woman with a thriving career and money and opinions of her own, as the Atlantic said.

[soapstar]

Let’s move on from comparing the media coverage/treatment of Meghan, Kate, Camilla and other British royal girlfriends and spouses. It’s a circular discussion that is going nowhere and is taking over the thread. Any further comments will be deleted.

[Denville]

Its not onerous to them, they will use tehir titles to get noticed and make money. What is onerous is for Meghan to live in the UK and for them to commit to their roles in the UK

[Kataryn]

Originally Posted by Helen.CH

I know this and was talking about the older generation, the house of Windsor has risen from Germans.....��

The influx of Germans was at a time when there was no idea of nationality in people's mind. When the electress-dowager Sophie (born from the marriage of the prince-elector of the Palatinate and a Scottish and English princess of Tudor and Stuart-blood) was decided by the British parliament as heiress of her cousin queen Anne (Stuart, the daughter of Sophie's mother's brother), she was, other than her brothers and sisters who were older and their offspring, the closest protestant relative to queen Anne. When she died some month before queen Anne, her son became after Anne's death king of the Uk and moved to London. As the Uk could not provide their king with princesses of equal rank, the kings (and queen Victoria) then continued to marry German protestant princesses (and Prince Albert)
Who became proper British wifes (and a Prince Consort) and their children were born and raised in the Uk. Edward VII. married a Danish princess, his son George V. a German/British princess raised in the Uk, their son George VI. a Scottish lady and Elizabeth a Danish-Greek prince with a British mother, raised in the Uk as well. So since queen Victoria, who was half-German by blöod(from her mother's side) and who married a full-German (Albert was the son of two descendents of the Ducal House of Saxony), but was raised in the Uk as British and did the same for her children, no explicitely German blood was entered into the BRF. George V. was half-Danish but married a half-British bride and their son married a purely British bride, becoming the parents of today's queen. With Philipp being half-British, Diana being a full Briton and the Duchess of Cambridge being British as well, even from the bloodline there is not much foreign blood to be found, especially not German blood (as Philips Danish-Greek father was the son of a Danish prince and a Russian grand duchess. Yes, there was the German grandmother Victoria of Hesse-Darmstadt, who was herself the daughter of princess Alice of the UK and the naturalized British grandfather the Marquess of Milford Haven (born German prince of Battenberg) but his mother was born a British lady in the UK.
So where does the idea come from that the British RF is of German blood?

[ACO]

Originally Posted by Nico

So like divorcees : Henry, duke of Sussex and Meghan, duchess of Sussex ?
Seems a bit drastic for the Queen i think.

You think they will maintain them? I guess we shall see.

[duchessrachel]

Originally Posted by Mbruno

I wouldn't read too much on that statement , one way or the other.



Considering that the Queen has asked for a speedy solution, the concrete details will emerge in the coming days rather than weeks and we will know for sure what exactly Harry and Meghan got and what they did not.


EDIT: Daily Mail's Headline (a pun om Boris Johnson's campaign slogan)


"Queen : Get Megxit done"

I just wish I knew which media information to believe on the details.

[O-H Anglophile]

Originally Posted by BaiSoSo

The firing of the person who did it was too little too late. The spin was going to be negative against the Sussexes and they did their best to prevent that. Besides, it was just the latest in leaks from the Palaces when it came to Harry and Meghan. The couple per Tom Bradby (sp?) was already reluctant to put the plan in writing because they were concerned about it leaking... the Queen, Charles & William (whoever received the plan) should have done more to prevent it from happening to begin with show the Sussexes that they could trust them.

How was the firing of the idiot monkey person "too little too late"? And how could the spin possibly be negative against the Sussexes in that story?

If you meant the story of the Sussexes stepping back from being full time royals being spun negatively, they brought the negativity upon themselves with their website, and caused more furor and uproar themselves.

As far as the "leak"--Dan Wooten made a statement that his information did not come from anyone at any of the palaces. So don't blame William, Charles or the Queen.

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by Denville

Its not onerous to them, they will use tehir titles to get noticed and make money. What is onerous is for Meghan to live in the UK and for them to commit to their roles in the UK

It is clear that Meghan doesn’t want to live or be in the UK. In that case, the part-time project won’t work.The only question in my mind is if she ever considered making a serious commitment to the UK or if she already got married with an intention to bail out as soon as possible.

Just to draw a parallel, Chris O’Neill didn’t want to commit to Sweden or live there permanently either, but he was candid about it. When he married Princess Madeleine, he turned down a title, membership of the Swedish RF and Swedish citizenship. And then he moved with his family overseas. Of course, it is easier for him as he is a man and husbands of princesses are not expected to be working royals as wives of princes normally are, but, still, if Meghan had doubts about adjusting to Harry’s life, they could have come to an agreement to live like the O’Neills right from the beginning of their marriage and never be working royals to begin with, or she could have considered not having got married at all.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by ACO

You think they will maintain them? I guess we shall see.

Is parliament likely to spend time removing the titles? And the queen's unlikey to remove the HRH.. unless they ask for it. But there will probaby be restirctions on what they can do with their brand..

[Denville]

Originally Posted by Mbruno

It is clear that Meghan doesn’t want to live or be in the UK. In that case, the part-time project won’t work.The only question in my mind is if she ever considered making a serious commitment to the UK or if she already got married with an intention to bail out as soon as possible.

Just to draw a parallel, Chris O’Neill didn’t want to committ to Sweden or live here permanently eithet, but he was candid about it. When he married Princess Madeleine, he turned down a title, membership of the Swedish RF and Swedish citizenship. And then he moved with his family overseas. Of course, it is easier for him as he is a man and husbands of princesses are not expected to be working royals as wives of princes normally are, but, still, if Meghan had doubts about adjusting to Harry’s life, they could have come to an agreement to live like the O’Neills right from the beginning of their marriage and never be working royals to begin with, or she could have considered not having got married at all.

True, she and Harry accepted a title, a role etc.. and gave the impression they were longing to beaver away at saving the world. But it didn't last very long..
I don't know if she intended to stay, or if she cynically accepted Harry to get a title and notice in the US...Im inclined to think she did intend to stay but found that Being Royal and living in britian was not what she expected..

[QueenMathilde]

Maybe it would help if we started to debunk the rumors surrounding this. I'll start - Gayle King has denied the rumors they're going to do a tell-all with her.


https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...rry-and-meghan