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  #1081  
Old 10-23-2016, 10:10 AM
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Camilla isn't following in the Queen's footsteps. She is following Philip's as a consort. Just like we see with First Ladies, the Consort can serve their spouse how she or he see fit. Eleanor was different from Jackie, Hillary different from Laura. The same true is true for Philip and Elizabeth, Mary and Alexandra.

She doesn't have to go on every tour or do everything her husband does. If she wants to read to kids she can or vacation with her sister she can.

She doesn't have to go around with a crown on her head "looking regal". What she does now isn't going to drastically change when Charles is King. Attend a state dinner, wear a tiara, go on tours- all things she is already doing. Other than a coronation at the Abbey for a day, the only difference between Queen and where she is now is Your Majesty versus Your Royal Highness. She already made a more difficult from private citizen to member of the royal family.


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  #1082  
Old 10-23-2016, 10:27 AM
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There are all chances that Camilla will reach the same level of affection and popularity, as the Nation's granny. We have no idea. In the Netherlands, Belgium, Spain and in the Vatican there are new monarchs and new consorts. It is surprising how quick the old guard seems "forgotten": Beatrix, Albert II and Paola, Juan Carlos and Sofía, Benedictus XVI... all still around, all part of history.

It already feels "natural" to see the new monarchs and their consorts. All of them enjoy popularity, bigger than in their days as heirs. It is impossible to tell if the British will like King Charles and Queen Camilla. I think there is every chance that they will like them indeed.

No one of us has a crystal ball but I think when the Nation rallies around the King whom leads the mourning and then so many accents will change at the Court, the King and Queen are able to become dear to the Britons. Who knows. Since Victoria all Kings and Queens enjoyed popularity. Their Consorts likewise. Even Edward VIII enjoyed huge popularity until the abdication. We will see.
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  #1083  
Old 10-23-2016, 10:47 AM
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The Queen herself was stuck in between her popular mother and her popular children. She didn't really become the nation's granny until her own mother passed. I remember a documentary about the royals how Britain loves a old monarch and a young monarch to paraphrase.


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  #1084  
Old 10-23-2016, 10:50 AM
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I firmly believe that when it comes down to popularity polls and who the public likes or dislikes, Camilla could care less. I have yet to see, in the 10 years Charles and Camilla have been married, any kind of indication that Camilla is out for the greater good of Camilla. Its just not her nature.

What is important to Camilla is Charles, his role as The Prince of Wales and his family and how their "Firm" operates. She is by no means a puppet but a warm, down to earth person with a good sense of humor and people find it easy to get along with her. She does what she can and what is expected of her. She also has been able to bring into focus several issues that matter to her personally yet goes about it quietly in her own way and pace without any fanfare. She may have married Charles in 2005 and jumped into the world of the royal fishbowl but has never let that interfere with that which has come before and we've recently seen Camilla with her children and her ex-husband as a support team.

What it all boils down to for me is that with Camilla, I see more of a "team" player than someone out for their own fame and glory. Who matters to Camilla will not be fleeting or shallow but long lasting and from my understanding, no matter what happens, there's always a bit of humor to be found in things if one really looks for it. But most of all, no matter Camilla is addressed as when Charles is king, with Camilla it will be her choice to focus on the "consort" part.
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  #1085  
Old 10-23-2016, 04:54 PM
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As a Diana fan it may surprise people I am a Camilla fan as well. I think the only two people who matter in this is William and Harry and I belive they get along well. I think she should be Charles' s Queen when the day comes.
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  #1086  
Old 10-23-2016, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
There are all chances that Camilla will reach the same level of affection and popularity, as the Nation's granny. We have no idea. In the Netherlands, Belgium, Spain and in the Vatican there are new monarchs and new consorts. It is surprising how quick the old guard seems "forgotten": Beatrix, Albert II and Paola, Juan Carlos and Sofía, Benedictus XVI... all still around, all part of history.

It already feels "natural" to see the new monarchs and their consorts. All of them enjoy popularity, bigger than in their days as heirs. It is impossible to tell if the British will like King Charles and Queen Camilla. I think there is every chance that they will like them indeed.

No one of us has a crystal ball but I think when the Nation rallies around the King whom leads the mourning and then so many accents will change at the Court, the King and Queen are able to become dear to the Britons. Who knows. Since Victoria all Kings and Queens enjoyed popularity. Their Consorts likewise. Even Edward VIII enjoyed huge popularity until the abdication. We will see.
Felipe of Spain, Phillipe of Belgium, willem-Alexander etc did not come to the thrones of their respective countries in their seventies, which is what Charles may well be when he succeeds the Queen, a monarch who has been on the throne longer than most of her subjects have been alive.

None of them have been divorced, let alone divorced under circumstances in which they were mired in controversy played out in the media. Nor do they have a second wife who more than played a part in the ending of that marriage.

Charles and Camilla don't enjoy great popularity now. Are people's memories of the past going to be wiped in another four or five years or so when Charles and Camilla might become King and Queen Consort? They may but then again they may not and that's a possibility too, isn't it?
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  #1087  
Old 10-23-2016, 05:36 PM
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I agree with Osipi that a more selfless attitude than that of Camilla would be hard to find..
A woman [a private family oriented Countrywoman at that] thrust into the deeply unsympathetic GLARE of public life, by marriage to the man she loves, [at a age most others are retiring] she has done more than well.

Unrelenting in her support for her husband [with all that that entails], she has cheerfully accepted the life that comes with him.
I think she cares not a fig what Title she holds or may hold, just as long as she can 'do right by him', and 'the Firm'.

But I think Charles DOES care, and [imo rightly] expects his wife to enjoy the recognition she deserves, and just as her role in his life was 'not negotiable', so her rank and title as his Queen Consort will prove to be equally 'not negotiable' when the time comes for him to reign.
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  #1088  
Old 10-23-2016, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyevale;1934017 But I think Charles DOES care, and [imo rightly
expects his wife to enjoy the recognition she deserves, and just as her role in his life was 'not negotiable', so her rank and title as his Queen Consort will prove to be equally 'not negotiable' when the time comes for him to reign.
I think you may have hit it right on the nose here. Most likely, the only person on this planet that could possibly change his mind if he's got the "non-negotiable" in his head about Camilla being Queen Consort would be Camilla herself.
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  #1089  
Old 10-23-2016, 05:53 PM
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And as a proven supportive wife, I think she will 'step up to the plate' when he asks it of her..

He more than anyone knows what she has endured to take her place beside him , [as his wife] just as she knows what battles he has fought to get her there.

What man wants his wife to be branded 'second best'? To permit such a thing would reflect on him, as much as her.
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  #1090  
Old 10-23-2016, 06:23 PM
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I totally agree with you here and if Charles deems that Camilla should be his Queen Consort and the way it does happen that as soon as he does become King, Camilla becomes Queen, that'll be the way it is. Public opinion in this situation really does not matter one iota. The last thing Camilla will want to do is start a furor with someone she loves when he has just lost his mother.

I was just stating that perhaps Camilla would be the only person on the planet that could talk him out of it if she felt really strongly about not being Queen Consort but being the Camilla she is, she'd adapt and put on her "Queen Hat" if that's what Charles really wanted and needed.
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  #1091  
Old 10-23-2016, 06:31 PM
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Certainly I agree that ONLY she could change his view, not William.not Harry,not the PM,certainly not the Courtiers...or 'men in grey suits'.
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  #1092  
Old 10-23-2016, 07:00 PM
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Osipi and wyevale, I agree that Camilla is the only person who could change Charles' mind about her being known as Queen Consort, but, Osipi, you make a good point about her caring enough about him that she is unlikely to want to burden him with such a discussion at the time he is grieving the loss of his mother. So, for that reason, she might agree if it hasn't been settled between them by then. But I suspect they have already discussed it at length and have settled on what is to happen.
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  #1093  
Old 10-24-2016, 12:34 AM
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Well as of this moment and the foreseeable future, Camilla will become Queen when Charles becomes King. There are no acts of parliament in train to change this and there are no particular MP's (except Republicans) agitating for change. Any change would need to be well under way so, short of Camilla actually being Queen but being "styled" Princess Consort, she will be Queen.

On a strictly political level, I can see that such an arrangement would bring the BRF and the monarchy itself into disrepute, showing a laughable pettiness and meanness of spirit that presents the United Kingdom as ridiculous and mired in the past at a time when they want to show the world that the United Kingdom, both monarchy and government, is a force to be reckoned with, post-Brexit.
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  #1094  
Old 10-24-2016, 01:13 AM
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On the other hand, it could also be seen as a move to bring the British Royal Family into the 21st century. Coverture has not been part of the common law - and it was only ever common law, never statute law, so no Act of Parliament is needed to change it - and it is now only tradition that sees married women being known according to their husband's styles and titles. Yes, the rules have always been a little different for the peerage and Royals but nothing that cannot be managed by a determined Charles. It could be spun as a progressive action on his part.
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  #1095  
Old 10-24-2016, 02:03 AM
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It doesn't matter which way you slice or dice it if Camilla is not Queen everyone will know why and all the spinning in the world will not make a difference as to how it is perceived.

There is no precedent for her to not be Queen and the public, regardless of their personal opinions, will not like the way the news of the world spins it and the UK itself because it will be true.
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  #1096  
Old 10-24-2016, 02:22 AM
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Time to set a new precedent, perhaps? Nothing changes if someone doesn't take a step forward.
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  #1097  
Old 10-24-2016, 06:38 AM
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Camilla and The Public

How is giving Camilla or using a lesser title a step forward? Do you want woman not to use their husband's titles so it's HM King Charles III and Ms Camilla Shand and HRH The Prince of Wales and Ms. Catherine Middleton? Or do you want the removal of the inherited titles and the monarchy?

Ever other wife of a King has been a Queen, but because some people don't like you, you must not use the title. We are going to punish only you not your husband who is guilty of the same crimes that we are judging you by. Wow, to me that isn't a step forward for women.



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  #1098  
Old 10-24-2016, 07:44 AM
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While I don't think it is nesseccary, in the Netherlands they have done something like that.
After Willem-Alexander became king, it was announced that Maxima would hold the title of Princess of the Netherlands, like the male consorts before here were named. But it was also noted that everyone was free to refer to her as Queen. And everyone does, though technically she is not a queen, only a princess.
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  #1099  
Old 10-24-2016, 08:05 AM
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While I don't think it is nesseccary, in the Netherlands they have done something like that.
After Willem-Alexander became king, it was announced that Maxima would hold the title of Princess of the Netherlands, like the male consorts before here were named. But it was also noted that everyone was free to refer to her as Queen. And everyone does, though technically she is not a queen, only a princess.
As I understand it, Maxima already had the title of Princess of the Netherlands (and Princess of Orange-Nassau ?), which she will hold by law as long as she is a member of the Royal House. The novelty was that, after W-A's accession, she was given a courtesy title of "Queen" with the style "Her Majesty", even though she is not "Queen Maxima of the Netherlands" (like some of her counterparts are "Queen xxx of their respective countries"), but only Queen Maxima, Princess of the Netherlands, Princess of Orange-Nassau.
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  #1100  
Old 10-24-2016, 08:06 AM
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As stated above EVERY wife of a King has been Queen in our History, and to change that [over an incredibly petty issue applicable to ONE marriage] would set an undesirable precedent IMO.
In our law a wife 'takes the style and rank of her husband/, and I cannot detect any groundswell of opinion desirous of changing that long established position.
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