The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 5: June-July 2021

[Denville]

If there's one thing you can't accuse Harry of, it's being disinterested in the work that he actually did do while he was an active member of the royal family. Surely it's unnecessary to resort to low and more importantly, incorrect, blows?

Sorry but didn't Harry say that he hated being sent on tours, and that he didn't want to do the one to Nepal and that he felt he was overworked, and that he felt that although the people he met were poorer than him, they were at least free?

 

[HighGoalHighDreams]

If there's one thing you can't accuse Harry of, it's being disinterested in the work that he actually did do while he was an active member of the royal family. Surely it's unnecessary to resort to low and more importantly, incorrect, blows?

For a long time, in fact until recent weeks, the first sentence was a constant refrain on these forums. Even the most ardent critics of Harry couched their statements with this sentiment, out of respect for what was honored as the good work he had done for many years.

Harry blew that up with remarks about Nepal.

 

[Sandy345]

not really. Its being debated whether Harry is indeed sure of himself and what he wants to do, or if he's led by Meghan.. or if he really wanted to get out of royal life sooner. If he did, I'm surprised that he stayed so long when he was in love with Chelsey, she had a home in Africa where he was happy. so if he was sure in himself that he didn't like royal life, perhaps that would have been the ideal time to go.

It would be if Harry left Meghan for Chelsy. The two moved on ten years ago so I think it's a moot point. Chelsy and Meghan are two different people. Harry was still in the military when he and Chelsy parted ways so it was a different scenario for him then. It did not happen for them

Cressida (although I don' t think Harry was as serious about her as he was with Chelsy) expressed an antipathy for royal life. Had they married SHE could have agreed with him as far as leaving royal life.

 

[Anna1519]

I went back to the Apple TV series a little while ago to rewatch the clip where Harry talks about Nepal; in all honesty, it wasn't something I had picked up on much when the series first released. I don't know if this is the appropriate place to post this but since we're on the topic.

Oprah: Was there a moment, a single moment - or a series of experiences or encounters, happenings that forced you to say 'I need help?' Maybe 'I'm drinking too much, maybe I'm doing too much.' Was there an incident?
​

Harry: No, it was only when a couple of people close to me started to say, 'this isn't normal behavior. Perhaps you should seek help.' [...] Now in hindsight, looking back, it's all about timing. Towards my late twenties, everything became really hectic for me. But to the point of exhaustion. I was traveling all over the place because, you know, from a family's perspective I was the person who, like, "we need someone to go there. Uh, Nepal, Harry, you go." I was always the yes man, I was always the one who said yes. But that yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes led to burnout. It was like someone had taken a lid off all of the emotions I had suppressed for so many years, suddenly came to the forefront.
​

Viewed in the full context of Oprah's question and his full response, I have a hard time seeing how that can be interpreted as him disparaging Nepal or the value of the diplomatic tours he used to carry out. He's speaking in the context of a period of his life when his emotional state was worsening and that the pace of what he was being asked to do in terms of work (which of course is not anywhere near the average working person's) was one of the factors exacerbating that. He is not always articulate but I thought that was pretty clear. I don't think it's fair at all to say he hated the work he did.

 

[UglyAmerican]

I think it's generally accepted that Harry's previous two long-term relationships, with Chelsy and then with Cressida Bonas, ended because both women decided that royal life was not for them. They did respect the monarchy: they just felt that that life wasn't right for them. The question was why there never seems to have been any question of Harry walking away from the Royal Family to start a new life with either of them, when he chose to do so with Meghan. It's not a criticism of any of the people involved, but I think it's a legitimate question.

I've had the same thought, and I think if Chelsy had done what Meghan did, he'd have married her and then left for her, too. When you're married to someone you love, their happiness takes priority over your job (especially when you've got gobs of money either way). But Chelsy, despite being much younger at time than Meghan was when she later married Harry, knew herself well enough to know that this life wasn't right for her, and respected Harry enough to be honest with him about that. And because Chelsy was much less inclined to talk the media, we don't know whether there ever was or wasn't a question of Harry leaving for her. For all we know, they might have split up when Harry offered to leave for her, and Chelsy thought it over and decided she just wasn't comfortable being responsible for that a la Wallis Simpson.

The super-rushed timeframe and long-distance nature of most of Harry and Meghan's pre-marriage relationship might be partly to blame here. Maybe if Chelsy had been pressed for a decision six months or a year in, she'd have been all gung-ho to become a royal, too. But both of them were younger, so there was no rush. She had plenty of time to form a more accurate picture of what she was getting into. Meghan's engagement to Harry was publicly announced a little more than a year after they started dating, and she didn't move to the UK until around that same time. If she didn't realize until then that she had serious reservations about her ability and willingness to live that life, there was no easy way out of it at that point. Hypothetically supposing this was discussed, Harry's choices would have been 1) call off the engagement, or 2) ask her to give it a chance and promise to leave if she still hates it after a year or two. If he was certain that he'd rather marry Meghan and leave than stay put and remain single, then 2) was obviously the correct choice.

It's tempting to point to this as evidence of William being right about taking it slow, but I'm not sure that's entirely fair, because I don't think they had the same priorities. It's easy for William to say that, because it worked out well for him: He took it very slow with one person, and ended up with a wife whom he seems to truly love, and who's excellent at and appears happy with her royal job. But taking things slowly with Chelsy (and to a lesser extent Cressida) may only have given them enough time to realize that they didn't want to be with Harry (or at least, Harry and his royal baggage). From the perspective of a rational adult on the outside looking in, that's a better outcome than marrying someone who wouldn't have been happy. But Harry would naturally be less objective about the whole thing, and may have reasoned "If I follow this advice, I'll never get married!" And honestly, between the royal baggage and his own personal issues, he may have been right about that.

The contrast between some of his and William's statements is significant here, IMHO. From what I remember of William and Kate's drawn-out courtship, William's first priority was making sure they were both sure about everything, and if that sometimes-excessive caution meant the relationship ended despite their mutual love, he considered that preferable to risking a repeat of his parents' marriage. But Harry's said over and over again that he did this, that, or the other thing because "I realized that if I didn't, I was going to lose this woman I loved and wanted to spend my life with." Harry's priority was 'keeping' Meghan, whatever it took. William's approach was perhaps overly paternalistic, too hesitant to accept Kate's own judgment about what she could handle and what she thought was best for herself. But on the flip side, Harry's seems more rooted in his own natural-but-selfish desires to be with the woman he loved, at times heedless of what the impact on that woman was likely to be.

 

[camelot23ca]

I think he was probably pretty erratic back then some few years ago.. possibly complaining all the time about royal life in private.. while putting on a show in public. So the RF didn't quite know what to do with him....
I'd say they hoped he'd settle down, and possibly figured that as he clearly hated having a desk job in the army, he might be better to take up royal duties but have some down time.. I think that his big explosion in the last few years didnt just come out of the blue.. that the RF were aware that he wasn't really very settled or stable and were probably concerned as to what might happen.. and handled him with kid gloves..
#And it sounds like he was flitting around a lot while on down time.. and probably taking drugs and drinking.. and the RF probably hoped that given a few years of semi freedom he would settle down, go into full time royal work and find a wife... but it did not work out like that.

I agree that Harry’s erratic behaviour isn’t new. I think if Harry had consistently been doing well behind the scenes in his 20s and early 30s the family’s reaction to his actions in the past few years would have been different. Everything that’s been filtering out from the BRF’s camp has seemed like anger and disappointment that Harry is publicly slamming them, but there’s been no sense that they’re shocked at the behaviour itself.

Harry has openly spoken about mental health issues, (not sure if he ever gave us the actual diagnosis), as well as substance abuse. Those things make it pointless to try to figure out who the “real” Harry is. The Harry who shows up when he’s sober and under the care of an experienced physician or therapist is going to be very different from the Harry who’s drinking/using regularly and has given his mental health team the boot.

So, yeah, I’m sure his family didn’t know what to do with him. Harry may feel like they pressured him into being a working royal, but what were his other options? Charles was probably hoping Harry would continue in the armed forces. That didn’t work out. Harry’s not academic, so university wasn’t in the cards, but I think if he’d expressed any interest doing some sort of apprenticeship in land management or conservation work, for example, Charles would have supported him, up to and including creating a tailor made position for him. But if Harry didn’t want to commit to another career path the default would have been royal duties, because the expectation would have been that he would work at something. Especially since Charles would have been well aware of how things went with Harry when he was left to his own devices.

 

[King of the Jungle]

It would be nice if all four of the Sussexes, along with William's family, joined together, in good faith, to unveil the Diana memorial.
Spending the Summer in Windsor would be wonderful for Harry and Meghan - should they concentrate on all things positive about their position in life.

Life is too short to harbour grievances.. or to focus on media publications.

 

[Denville]

It would be nice if all four of the Sussexes, along with William's family, joined together, in good faith, to unveil the Diana memorial.
Spending the Summer in Windsor would be wonderful for Harry and Meghan - should they concentrate on all things positive about their position in life.

Life is too short to harbour grievances.. or to focus on media publications.

But they dont want to be in Windsor, or back in the UK. Harry didn't seem to be able to cope very well with coming back briefly for P's funeral. he is at present focused on his new life in America.. he doesn't honestly seem that happy there but he seems to feel it is better than the UK and I'm sure that Meghan doesn't want to come back at ALL. So the odds are that she will stay there and Harry will maybe make a brief visit back to unveil the Diana statue.. and hes not going to stay here for longer than a few days at most. Why would he? His wife and his kids are in the US. They are his priority. He is not happy with his birth family and I doubt they're very thrilled iwth him...

 

[angieuk]

Thomas looks old and frail now, at nearly 77. Sadly, I don't believe there will ever be a reconciliation now. I never had a loving father; but Thomas seems to have tried to have done his best for her.

 

[Heavs]

I went back to the Apple TV series a little while ago to rewatch the clip where Harry talks about Nepal; in all honesty, it wasn't something I had picked up on much when the series first released. I don't know if this is the appropriate place to post this but since we're on the topic.

Oprah: Was there a moment, a single moment - or a series of experiences or encounters, happenings that forced you to say 'I need help?' Maybe 'I'm drinking too much, maybe I'm doing too much.' Was there an incident?
​

Harry: No, it was only when a couple of people close to me started to say, 'this isn't normal behavior. Perhaps you should seek help.' [...] Now in hindsight, looking back, it's all about timing. Towards my late twenties, everything became really hectic for me. But to the point of exhaustion. I was traveling all over the place because, you know, from a family's perspective I was the person who, like, "we need someone to go there. Uh, Nepal, Harry, you go." I was always the yes man, I was always the one who said yes. But that yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes led to burnout. It was like someone had taken a lid off all of the emotions I had suppressed for so many years, suddenly came to the forefront.
​

Viewed in the full context of Oprah's question and his full response, I have a hard time seeing how that can be interpreted as him disparaging Nepal or the value of the diplomatic tours he used to carry out. He's speaking in the context of a period of his life when his emotional state was worsening and that the pace of what he was being asked to do in terms of work (which of course is not anywhere near the average working person's) was one of the factors exacerbating that. He is not always articulate but I thought that was pretty clear. I don't think it's fair at all to say he hated the work he did.

I think it was still a pretty poor statement. He wasn't the "yes man" he did two overseas tours that year 8 months apart and did 100 engagements in total. He was beaten by elderly relatives in the the list of royal engagements - I think he was no 11. His father and brother also did two over seas tours that year. He wasn't being overworked at all.

So he is being disingenuous about that. And whilst I know that if your mental health is poor then anything can seem too much he should have mentioned it wasn't just "Hey Harry you go there!" it was because he had a connection ie he had served with the Gurkhas in Afghanistan and they were his bodyguards. He was also helping draw attention to their plight over the earthquake. It's just frustrating that he didn't acknowledge any of that even from the BRF side. Or mentioned a much better example.

Now this doesn't mean he can't have been mentally blown out but he wasn't some overworked down trodden muggins. And he actually stayed a few days longer to help out at the time.

It also follows unwise remarks on Dax Shepard about thinking the poor people he met were "freer" because they weren't trapped in the BRF and that he thought "I don't want to be here" on engagements. Now the first is absolutely stupid for obvious reasons and the latter is unwise to say because a) they're trying to do the same sort of thing in LA an B) Harry had a lot of perks that he still wanted to keep in exchange for not even working 1/3rd of the year publicly. I know they do a lot BTS. What did he want to do instead that didn't involve things he didn't like occasionally? He also quit the army because he didn't like desk work among other things. What did he suggest doing that wasn't sitting around all day like an aristocrat from 100 years ago?

He had the time and resources to get the best help possible which most people that this TV show was supposed to be "helping" don't. If they're burned out by work they can't take time off and they don't want to be places but they have to go 340 days of the year otherwise they lose everything. It would just have been nice to have some self awareness from Harry.

 

[MARG]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9680303/Queens-war-Harry-Meghans-LA-spin-machine.html

Queen ditches 'never complain, never explain' policy: After the row over Harry and Meghan calling their daughter Lilibet, the Palace will no longer let 'mistruths' go unchallenged

It all seems like their American Dream has turned sour! But they weren't happy in the UK either!

They have a wonderfully strong marriage; why are they still so unhappy?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...Oprah-interview-want-peace-source-claims.html

Harry and Meghan ‘have no regrets’ about interviews ‘but are doing their utmost to keep the peace’, source claims - after Queen ditches ‘never complain, never explain’ policy to combat 'mistruths'

The source also said that the Sussexes want 'to avoid being demoted as a royal at all cost and that the 'worst-case scenario, losing their titles.'

These two Daily Mail encapsulate the entire Sussex V BRF debacle. They make up a story, mention a few unnamed sources, print it with lots of pretty pictures and wait for the haters to go off their collective nuts. Anger, high dudgeon, injured feelings, accusations from both sides of the argument and then . . . well they print the supposed utterings from the other side, mention a few unnamed sources, print it with lots of pretty pictures and wait for the haters to go off their collective nuts.

It's just people going round and round in ever-decreasing circles, winding themselves up and anyone else of like mind. People accuse Palace Sources and Sussex proxies of "leaking" information when there is absolutely no verifiable proof that someone said anything about anyone. But the Daily Mail et al continue to churn out story after story.

They don't care there are real people at the centre of their money-making machinations and supposedly reasonable adults continue to be sucked in. What started out as a coolness between brothers has been escalated to a verbal nuclear level. But, just how much is real?

 

[Denville]

I think it was still a pretty poor statement. He wasn't the "yes man" he did two overseas tours that year 8 months apart and did 100 engagements in total. He was beaten by elderly relatives in the the list of royal engagements - I think he was no 11. His father and brother also did two over seas tours that year. He wasn't being overworked at all.

So he is being disingenuous about that. And whilst I know that if your mental health is poor then anything can seem too much he should have mentioned it wasn't just "Hey Harry you go there!" it was because he had a connection ie he had served with the Gurkhas in Afghanistan and they were his bodyguards. He was also helping draw attention to their plight over the earthquake. It's just frustrating that he didn't acknowledge any of that even from the BRF side. Or mentioned a much better example.

Now this doesn't mean he can't have been mentally blown out but he wasn't some overworked down trodden muggins. And he actually stayed a few days longer to help out at the time.

It also follows unwise remarks on Dax Shepard about thinking the poor people he met were "freer" because they weren't trapped in the BRF and that he thought "I don't want to be here" on engagements. Now the first is absolutely stupid for obvious reasons and the latter is unwise to say because a) they're trying to do the same sort of thing in LA an B) Harry had a lot of perks that he still wanted to keep in exchange for not even working 1 /3rd of the year publicly. I know they do a lot BTS. What did he want to do instead that didn't involve things he didn't like occasionally? He also quit the army because he didn't like desk work.

He had the time and resources to get the best help possible which most people that this TV show was supposed to be "helping" don't. If they're burned out by work they can't take time off and they don't want to be places but they have to go 340 days of the year otherwise they lose everything. It would just have been nice to have some self awareness from Harry.

I had the feeling a few years ago that there was something jarring and irritating about Harry, around the time of that Nepal tour. (I wasn't his biggest fan but I HAD liked him when he went into the army and felt it was good for him... but there was still something a bit "off" about him that seemed to come out around then.)

And at the time I felt it was a bit like Diana.. that she did good works, but perhaps she was a bit desperate to be liked/loved by her public. And I thought that a bit with Harry. Not that he wasn't doing good - but that it was more because he "wanted to be loved" and noticed as a "good royal", than because he wanted to help people. Perhaps I was a bit unfair to him.. but since he has come out with this stuff, I feel that I was right to pick up some falseness from him.
Now he has come out with this.. and I didn't realise then that he had quit the army because he didn't want to do a desk job. So perhaps it is unfair, but it seems like he only wants to do things "when he feels like it", and if he is asked to do something he doesn't really want, he gets difficult and either walks out, or over acts but secretly is angry and unwilling.
Harry (and MEg) dont seem to realise or care that most people have a lot more difficulties in thier lives than the 2 of them have..
Meghan said that she was not happy and that "you've got to thrive, not just survive".. but most of us have no choice but to just survive... A lot of people who have health issues, go on working, and cant just leave their jobs.. or if they really cant keep on working they end up on benefits and life being more difficult. Harry really blew it when he said those things about not wanting to do engagements and envying people who were "free"... so I dont tink it is unfair to draw attention to what he said, and to feel that it DOES undermine his image as someone who cared about poeple and about his work

Thhe centre of their money-making machinations and supposedly reasonable adults continue to be sucked in. What started out as a coolness between brothers has been escalated to a verbal nuclear level. But, just how much is real?

I think if you look at Harry and Meghan's last engagement a year ago, the coolness was very real. William looked angry and unhappy, so did Harry. Whatever happened, they were NOT on good terms and it was clear that they couldn't manage to put on a polite face. And since that happened a year ago, Harry has made so many broadcasts attacking the RF as a whole, that I can't see them feeling very good about it. Williams remark recently when asked if the RF were racist, was clearly angry.

I agree that Harry’s erratic behaviour isn’t new. I think if Harry had consistently been doing well behind the scenes in his 20s and early 30s the family’s reaction to his actions in the past few years would have been different. Everything that’s been filtering out from the BRF’s camp has seemed like anger and disappointment that Harry is publicly slamming them, but there’s been no sense that they’re shocked at the behaviour itself.


So, yeah, I’m sure his family didn’t know what to do with him. Harry may feel like they pressured him into being a working royal, but what were his other options? Charles was probably hoping Harry would continue in the armed forces. That didn’t work out. Harry’s not academic, so university wasn’t in the cards, but I think if he’d expressed any interest doing some sort of apprenticeship in land management or conservation work, for example, Charles would have supported him, up to and including creating a tailor made position for him. But if Harry didn’t want to commit to another career path the default would have been royal duties, because the expectation would have been that he would work at something. Especially since Charles would have been well aware of how things went with Harry when he was left to his own devices.

I think that that's why we got the image of "Harry the jolly lad who is a bit of a joker, makes the odd mistake but is really a good kindly chap" - BECAUSE behind the scenes Harry hadn't perhaps really outgrown the teenager who was drinking and not behaving very well. I think that the Army did give him a focus for a time, brought out the best in him but he was still probably acting up in private...and the RF were perhaps "desperately hoping he would outgrow it all".

 

[Heavs]

These two Daily Mail encapsulate the entire Sussex V BRF debacle. They make up a story, mention a few unnamed sources, print it with lots of pretty pictures and wait for the haters to go off their collective nuts. Anger, high dudgeon, injured feelings, accusations from both sides of the argument and then . . . well they print the supposed utterings from the other side, mention a few unnamed sources, print it with lots of pretty pictures and wait for the haters to go off their collective nuts.

It's just people going round and round in ever-decreasing circles, winding themselves up and anyone else of like mind. People accuse Palace Sources and Sussex proxies of "leaking" information when there is absolutely no verifiable proof that someone said anything about anyone. But the Daily Mail et al continue to churn out story after story.

They don't care there are real people at the centre of their money-making machinations and supposedly reasonable adults continue to be sucked in. What started out as a coolness between brothers has been escalated to a verbal nuclear level. But, just how much is real?

You're right of course that the DM and others don't necessarily care what is factual and write stories for clicks, that's never changed. And no they don't really care that real people are at the centre. That's what many royals and famous people complain about people stop thinking of them as people and just think of them as entertainment.

However this time they're not making up something out of nothing. It is clear there is a large angry rift in the BRF.

Both brothers have mentioned it. Edward has openly talked about it. HM has issued statements about it. Harry and Meghan have gone on TV more than once and talked about how W&K were jealous and they did indeed split their offices because they didn't want to work with them among other things about Charles and the family as a whole.

Meghan relaunched the petty "who made who cry" story. Gayle King was authorised to say talking were "unproductive" with Harry's family, Harry from his own mouth seems to blame his father for everything. The Sussexes collaborated with FF a book that completely trashes the Cambridges and blames everything on them. ALL the royal reporters have said their sources refuse to deny the BBC story and it's a matter of fact that the Sussexes threatened to sue over a BBC story about their baby's name suggesting a lot of tension BTS. The situation seems nuclear just from what the people involved have actually said and done.

There's no indication anywhere that this is a simple case of brothers getting on each others nerves and the press are making it all up. If that was the case then we probably wouldn't have had Sussexit at all.

 

[Osipi]

Any statements made from the BRF side have handled the whole situation with dignity, tact and in a mature manner. They recognize that things are not as they should be but refuse to jump in and play the silly reindeer games that the Sussexes are playing. The most significant statement made from the British side of the pond was a simple one that stated it all. "Recollections may vary".

The Sussexes *need* this drama. The Sussexes *need* to do what I call selective rationalization to portray themselves as the victims. I think they honestly don't think that the public can or will be able to have "recollections that may vary" and they do go on a rampage for the media that does a bit of fact checking. I know I do. Especially with the statement Harry made in regards to the Nepal trip and how he didn't want to be there, he didn't want to meet the people and he felt "trapped". My recollections tell me this is the guy that, of his own volition, asked to be able to remain and help rebuild. Harry conveniently left that part out.

Right now, Harry is working from a deep, dark negative space where if it's not a negative, he can't see it. They're both playing the blame game where everything is someone or something else's fault and their "truths" have become something that are working to drag them even further down the scale of respectability and no matter what they try (with the latest being naming their daughter Lilibet Diana), its working against them rather than for them. People are actively laughing at them when a new report comes out that they've, once again, threatened legal action against the press. They've taken the "never complain, never explain" to a different level of "always complain and always explain no matter how much of it you need to make up". It never works.

I'm waiting now for the press release that Meghan has instigated legal action against her own father for defamation and whatever else she can throw into the mix because Thomas Markle is back on the scene again giving interviews. I'm surprised actually that Samantha hasn't cropped up yet hawking her book. The bottom line though in all of this is that the Sussexes have created this situation for themselves. They have become the "noise" that Meghan famously stated that she doesn't pay attention to. They have effectively gone from being a couple that could have made so much difference in this world on a global scale to basically being a couple that serves to keep the National Enquirer and the Daily Mail and other tabloids in business.

This is what they've decided to define themselves as. It was their choice to do this. No one forced them to make a foolish spectacle of themselves.

 

[muriel]

Any statements made from the BRF side have handled the whole situation with dignity, tact and in a mature manner. They recognize that things are not as they should be but refuse to jump in and play the silly reindeer games that the Sussexes are playing. The most significant statement made from the British side of the pond was a simple one that stated it all. "Recollections may vary".

The Sussexes *need* this drama. The Sussexes *need* to do what I call selective rationalization to portray themselves as the victims. I think they honestly don't think that the public can or will be able to have "recollections that may vary" and they do go on a rampage for the media that does a bit of fact checking. I know I do. Especially with the statement Harry made in regards to the Nepal trip and how he didn't want to be there, he didn't want to meet the people and he felt "trapped". My recollections tell me this is the guy that, of his own volition, asked to be able to remain and help rebuild. Harry conveniently left that part out.

Right now, Harry is working from a deep, dark negative space where if it's not a negative, he can't see it. They're both playing the blame game where everything is someone or something else's fault and their "truths" have become something that are working to drag them even further down the scale of respectability and no matter what they try (with the latest being naming their daughter Lilibet Diana), its working against them rather than for them. People are actively laughing at them when a new report comes out that they've, once again, threatened legal action against the press. They've taken the "never complain, never explain" to a different level of "always complain and always explain no matter how much of it you need to make up". It never works.

I'm waiting now for the press release that Meghan has instigated legal action against her own father for defamation and whatever else she can throw into the mix because Thomas Markle is back on the scene again giving interviews. I'm surprised actually that Samantha hasn't cropped up yet hawking her book. The bottom line though in all of this is that the Sussexes have created this situation for themselves. They have become the "noise" that Meghan famously stated that she doesn't pay attention to. They have effectively gone from being a couple that could have made so much difference in this world on a global scale to basically being a couple that serves to keep the National Enquirer and the Daily Mail and other tabloids in business.

This is what they've decided to define themselves as. It was their choice to do this. No one forced them to make a foolish spectacle of themselves.

You are right, Harry certainly appears to be approaching all of this from a dark, dark place. Not only do I see no reason for all of this negativity, I also see no benefit for Harry. All I can think is that whatever therapies he is undergoing for his mental health are just not working.

 

[Erin9]

The bottom line though in all of this is that the Sussexes have created this situation for themselves. They have become the "noise" that Meghan famously stated that she doesn't pay attention to. They have effectively gone from being a couple that could have made so much difference in this world on a global scale to basically being a couple that serves to keep the National Enquirer and the Daily Mail and other tabloids in business.



This is what they've decided to define themselves as. It was their choice to do this. No one forced them to make a foolish spectacle of themselves.

Very well said. They ARE the noise that Meghan said she ignored.

This is how they’re known IMO: they’re the couple that quit working for the royal family after about 5 minutes and now complain about it. It’s not their good works.

Bill maher is Bill Maher, but I think he hit the nail on the head on how Harry and Meghan are generally perceived by many people:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/deadli...ghan-ufos-neil-degrasse-tyson-1234774149/amp/

Bill Maher Slams Vaccinated Mask Wearers, Joe Manchin, Harry & Meghan & Talks UFOs With Neil deGrasse Tyson

“The comedian ended his opening monologue with a swipe at Prince Harry and Meghan Markle. “Let’s end tonight with important news: a new royal baby is in the world. There’s a duchess of Santa Barbara now, her name is Lilibet Diana Mountbatten Windsor and she will join her toddler brother Archie, Harry and Meghan in their mansion in SB. Just what that household needs, more pissing and whining.”

This is what they’re now known for IMO: whining.

 

[Sandy345]

I had the feeling a few years ago that there was something jarring and irritating about Harry, around the time of that Nepal tour. (I wasn't his biggest fan but I HAD liked him when he went into the army and felt it was good for him... but there was still something a bit "off" about him that seemed to come out around then.)

And at the time I felt it was a bit like Diana.. that she did good works, but perhaps she was a bit desperate to be liked/loved by her public. And I thought that a bit with Harry. Not that he wasn't doing good - but that it was more because he "wanted to be loved" and noticed as a "good royal", than because he wanted to help people. Perhaps I was a bit unfair to him.. but since he has come out with this stuff, I feel that I was right to pick up some falseness from him.
Now he has come out with this.. and I didn't realise then that he had quit the army because he didn't want to do a desk job. So perhaps it is unfair, but it seems like he only wants to do things "when he feels like it", and if he is asked to do something he doesn't really want, he gets difficult and either walks out, or over acts but secretly is angry and unwilling.
Harry (and MEg) dont seem to realise or care that most people have a lot more difficulties in thier lives than the 2 of them have..
Meghan said that she was not happy and that "you've got to thrive, not just survive".. but most of us have no choice but to just survive... A lot of people who have health issues, go on working, and cant just leave their jobs.. or if they really cant keep on working they end up on benefits and life being more difficult. Harry really blew it when he said those things about not wanting to do engagements and envying people who were "free"... so I dont tink it is unfair to draw attention to what he said, and to feel that it DOES undermine his image as someone who cared about poeple and about his work



I think if you look at Harry and Meghan's last engagement a year ago, the coolness was very real. William looked angry and unhappy, so did Harry. Whatever happened, they were NOT on good terms and it was clear that they couldn't manage to put on a polite face. And since that happened a year ago, Harry has made so many broadcasts attacking the RF as a whole, that I can't see them feeling very good about it. Williams remark recently when asked if the RF were racist, was clearly angry.



I think that that's why we got the image of "Harry the jolly lad who is a bit of a joker, makes the odd mistake but is really a good kindly chap" - BECAUSE behind the scenes Harry hadn't perhaps really outgrown the teenager who was drinking and not behaving very well. I think that the Army did give him a focus for a time, brought out the best in him but he was still probably acting up in private...and the RF were perhaps "desperately hoping he would outgrow it all".

I disagree for one thing about Diana. She wanted the love of her husband and did not get it. The public did take to her from the first moment. Which should have been a good thing for the royals. Diana when she went out was scared at appearances but wanted to please her husband as well so he would be proud of her. Totally different from Harry's situation.

I don't think their naming the baby should have been turned into a crisis. I believe that Harry did ask HM. I think if he knew then what is happening now he would have named the baby Lily as the given name.

Harry was angry at William because he was trying to interfere with his relationship with Meghan and I don't think they were getting along well even before Meghan. I think William needs to work things out for himself and perhaps get a different attitude approaching Harry. I think both need to work things out.

Harry did direct his upset mostly at Charles but seemed to have little to say about William.

Harry is a husband and a father now with two small children I think he passed beyond the "teenager temperament" .

 

[UglyAmerican]

Harry was angry at William because he was trying to interfere with his relationship with Meghan and I don't think they were getting along well even before Meghan. I think William needs to work things out for himself and perhaps get a different attitude approaching Harry. I think both need to work things out.

Harry did direct his upset mostly at Charles but seemed to have little to say about William.

At the time that remark was reportedly made, Harry was rapidly careening towards marriage to someone he'd been dating for less than a year, who had never lived in the UK, and with whom Harry had never lived in the same country or even on the same continent. Suggesting he slow down wasn't interfering, it was common sense. Harry didn't listen, and by Meghan's own account, she suffered tremendously due to having no idea what she was getting into. (And somehow that's everyone's fault except Harry's, which I've never quite understood.)

 

[LadyGlendower]

Anything can have happened by next summer. I've just rebooked the holiday I booked in September 2019, which was originally for July 2020 and was then rebooked for July 2021, for July 2022, and am hoping to make it third time lucky! I don't think either Harry or Meghan are particularly wanted in the UK, but, for the sake of the Queen, I hope they bring the children here at some point.

May you get the vacation of a lifetime!

 

[Kaye1850]

^^^“ They have effectively gone from being a couple that could have made so much difference in this world on a global scale to basically being a couple that serves to keep the National Enquirer and the Daily Mail and other tabloids in business.”

Osipi, this is a brilliant summation. I had such high hopes when she honored her commitment to the Commonwealth with the flowers on that beautiful veil.

https://www.townandcountrymag.com/s...han-markle-royal-wedding-veil-secret-meaning/

 

[Osipi]

Harry is a husband and a father now with two small children I think he passed beyond the "teenager temperament" .

There's a huge difference between physical maturity and emotional maturity. This is why mental health awareness is so important. Many people believe that the physical maturity of a person equates that of their mental/emotional maturity. They couldn't be more wrong.

 

[Alison H]

May you get the vacation of a lifetime!

Thank you! Hopefully we will all be on the move again by next summer.


I think William is quite protective. By all accounts, he didn't think that Dave Clark was the right man for Beatrice. I don't suppose Beatrice was very pleased about that, when they'd been together for 10 years - although, as it turned out, William was right - but there's no suggestion that she took it as anything other than William wanting her to be happy. Harry, on the other hand, seems to have flown off the handle.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

Harry was angry at William because he was trying to interfere with his relationship with Meghan and I don't think they were getting along well even before Meghan. I think William needs to work things out for himself and perhaps get a different attitude approaching Harry. I think both need to work things out.

Harry did direct his upset mostly at Charles but seemed to have little to say about William.

Harry is a husband and a father now with two small children I think he passed beyond the "teenager temperament" .

One of the hallmarks of being "passed beyond the 'teenager temperament'" is accepting that you can't control the attitude of people who approach you, you can only control your reactions. Harry is the one who is very unhappy and seem to be letting the anger control his life, so Harry is the one who needs to get a different attitude approaching William and everyone else in his family.

I don't think their naming the baby should have been turned into a crisis. I believe that Harry did ask HM. I think if he knew then what is happening now he would have named the baby Lily as the given name.

I agree that he would not have named the baby Lilibet if the Queen was truly unhappy. I find it hard to believe she is unhappy. If she is unhappy. there was probably a miscommunication. Regardless, giving his child a name he associates with his grandmother was not meant as an insult.

I think it is strange to suggest that he would not have honored his grandmother because of concern about public backlash. After the Queen is gone, few people in the U.S. will associate Lilibet with the Queen, especially since the baby will be called Lily.

 

[Frelinghighness]

my thoughts exactly. There are many older people who act like two year olds, IMO. Also, there have been a few comments about how they have a stable marriage, I seriously doubt that. You can’t have a stable marriage if you are acting like a baby.

 

[Sandy345]

At the time that remark was reportedly made, Harry was rapidly careening towards marriage to someone he'd been dating for less than a year, who had never lived in the UK, and with whom Harry had never lived in the same country or even on the same continent. Suggesting he slow down wasn't interfering, it was common sense. Harry didn't listen, and by Meghan's own account, she suffered tremendously due to having no idea what she was getting into. (And somehow that's everyone's fault except Harry's, which I've never quite understood.)

They did date for two years to be fair. I notice no complaints about Beatrice dating a man who recently broke up with his fiancee who had his baby.

My impression is that William came on too strong, and he is not head of the household. I don't think William is flawless in the "feud." Both need an attitude adjustment.

They were not 18 year olds they were both in their thirties. If they wanted a family, Harry and Meghan could not have waited 10 years like William and Kate did.

I think William should have backed off when Harry did not want his advice. All siblings should realize that when giving unwelcome advice. My thoughts on it.

Meghan had experience working and did charity work. I don't think she was ill prepared but some in media were very unkind to her from the get go IMO.

 

[Erin9]

After the Queen is gone, few people in the U.S. will associate Lilibet with the Queen, especially since the baby will be called Lily.

I doubt many people in the US do anyway. TBH- I’d bet about 99% of Americans had no idea that her nickname is Lilibet prior to Harry and Meghan naming their daughter that. And I doubt the number has gone up that much since, despite the headlines.

 

[Sandy345]

A lot of people in the US know she was called Lilibet. Especially now that the Crown is so popular and there have been movies like the Queen and The King's Speech that featured Elizabeth and the nickname. And speaking as an American there are some people that know all about the RF.

 

[Erin9]

A lot of people in the US know she was called Lilibet. Especially now that the Crown is so popular and there have been movies like the Queen and The King's Speech that featured Elizabeth and the nickname. And speaking as an American there are some people that know all about the RF.

I’m an American too. I just don’t think the Queen’s nickname is really well known here at all. Despite the popularity of some of the programs.

Of course- some people in the US are well versed on TRF- but not many. Probably what amounts to a handful in terms of the entire population.

 

[Sandy345]

It would be an interesting survey in the US. To test knowledge of RF.

 

[Osipi]

I’m an American too. I just don’t think the Queen’s nickname is really well known here at all. Despite the popularity of some of the programs.

Of course- some people in the US are well versed on TRF- but not many. Probably what amounts to a handful in terms of the entire population.

For the vast majority of the American people, even the headlines and the news reports of the Queen's activities over this past weekend probably didn't reach too many people and captured their attention.

Those Americans that do have an inkling of who Harry and Meghan are, most likely, are those Americans that follow entertainment and celebrity news. The news of the birth of baby Lily was a blip on major news channels but once shown, probably forgotten by most of the population and was relegated to the "I don't really care" folder in their heads.

It would be an interesting survey in the US. To test knowledge of RF.

Actually, I think Edward and Sophie Wessex could walk down the streets of NYC in broad daylight and not be recognized. I know the majority of the people I know that if I asked "What do you think of The Duchess of Sussex?" they'd get a blank stare on their face and I could visibly see their minds floating away to somewhere else.