Prince Gustav and Carina Axelsson, Current Events Part 2: Aug 2009 - June 2022

[Tilia C.]

That is delightful news! I'm really happy for these two to finally be able to tie the knot. Afaik, the inheritance is settled, Gustav has become the legal owner of the Berleburg estate, and a marriage should not change that anymore.

There is no long wait till this wedding, I hope that they are nevertheless planning for big wedding with a large attendance.

 

[JR76]

That is delightful news! I'm really happy for these two to finally be able to tie the knot. Afaik, the inheritance is settled, Gustav has become the legal owner of the Berleburg estate, and a marriage should not change that anymore.

There is no long wait till this wedding, I hope that they are nevertheless planning for big wedding with a large attendance.

So the verdict in the dispute between Gustav and Ludwig-Ferdinand also affected his grandfather's will?

 

[suztav]

Fabulous news! So happy for them after all these years.

 

[SLV]

Happy news. How old are they?

 

[Tilia C.]

So the verdict in the dispute between Gustav and Ludwig-Ferdinand also affected his grandfather's will?

The way I understand it, it did. But I don't really know much about law, to be honest. I remember that one German newspaper article once stated that Gustav now has a certificate of inheritance "Erbschein", which is a document to proof to third parties that you legally inherited something.

I think the the will could have prevented Gustav from inheriting, had he been married at the time. But once he has become the legal owner of the estate he can marry whoever he wants and without affecting the ownership of the estate.
The strange thing is, that this seems to be connected with Prince Richard's death. While Gustav inherited Berleburg from his grandfather, he only stepped into full ownership after his father's death, who had the rights to live of the estate during his lifetime.

 

[iceflower]

Happy news. How old are they?

Both are 53 right now. Prince Gustav was born in January 1969 and Carina Axelsson was born in August 1968, so she will turn 54 this summer.

 

[Muhler]

Wonderful news.

I understand from the headlines I've glanced that the verdict on the trial that has gone on for so many years has been ruled in their favor.
The German supreme court has overruled the testament.

What a pity though, that they haven't got children.
I supposed it's too late now?

 

[JR76]

Wonderful news.



I understand from the headlines I've glanced that the verdict on the trial that has gone on for so many years has been ruled in their favor.

The German supreme court has overruled the testament.



What a pity though, that they haven't got children.

I supposed it's too late now?

Lia Lambrino was over 60 when she had her son so if there are any eggs in the Berleburg freezer things could happen.

 

[Blog Real]

Prince Gustav has no children. Who will inherit the castle? his nephews?

 

[JR76]

Prince Gustav has no children. Who will inherit the castle? his nephews?

If what Tilia writes above is true he can do whatever he wants with the estate. I've seen theories before that one or both of his nephews will inherit.

 

[crm2317]

Congratulations!! I’m totally shocked but delighted for them! I always thought that Carina was a good bit younger than him, she is looking great for a lady in her 50s. I wouldn’t count out a baby, maybe from a surrogate? Never say never!

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

How wonderful for them! And such a shame a bigoted will has forced them to have to wait this long.

Interesting. I wonder why the Danish royal court has not issued an announcement, as they issued announcements for the marriage and divorce of Gustav's sisters. As I understand it, Carina will become a member of the Danish Royal Family on marriage, though not the Danish Royal House, as her husband-to-be and his sisters were excluded from the Royal House because their parents failed to satisfy the conditions for the King's formal approval of their marriage under the Act of Succession of 1953.

Could be because Alexandra and Nathalie both hold Danish citizenship whereas Gustav does not.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I understand from the headlines I've glanced that the verdict on the trial that has gone on for so many years has been ruled in their favor.
The German supreme court has overruled the testament.

If what Tilia C. remembers reading is correct, then no court has overruled the testament. However, Gustav would have satisfied the conditions of the testament because he was unmarried at the time he came into the inheritance.

I know nothing about German testamentary law, and like you I have only followed the story in passing, but Tilia C.'s understanding seems plausible. In pragmatic terms, it seems likelier that his grandfather's testament only bypassed heirs who had already married women who did not meet the 1940s criteria, rather than requiring the heir to be married and excluding unmarried men and boys. Gustav's grandfather may not have been able to foresee the downfall of the Nazi regime and/or future developments with nobility associations' standards for acceptable marriages before his death in 1944, but he could surely have foreseen the possibility of a grandson being a minor and naturally unmarried.

 

[eya]

Finally! Congatulations to them!!!

 

[Princess Luna]

What wonderful news!! So so happy for them

 

[gerry]

Wonderful news.

I understand from the headlines I've glanced that the verdict on the trial that has gone on for so many years has been ruled in their favor.
The German supreme court has overruled the testament.

What a pity though, that they haven't got children.
I supposed it's too late now?

who knows? Stranger things have happened…

 

[Muhler]

https://www.billedbladet.dk/kongeli...sejrede-prins-gustav-og-carina-axelsson-siger

According to BB, Gustav and Carina have had to live separately for periods due to the will (or rather the interpretations of the will) prohibiting them from living together. (I imagine that being a German "version" of Old Danish Law, that stipulated that if a women held the keys to a house for three year,s she was legally considered married to the owner. With all the rights and privileges that entailed.)

As you will recall there were speculations here on TRF as to whether Carina and Gustav had split up as they lived in different countries, seemingly most of the time.

Again according to BB:
https://www.billedbladet.dk/kongeli...aa-voldsomme-har-de-seneste-aars-stridigheder
After the death of Prince Richard in 2017, Prinz Ludwig-Ferdinand sued, claiming that he was the true heir after Prince Richard.
The court in Berleburg ruled in favor of Gustav and Carina, but that ruling was appealed.
In the summer of 2020 the appeal court in Nordrhein-Westphalen ruled in favor of Gustav and Carina.
(Presumably Corona was a factor in announcing the marriage now?)

- That's the info I can find so far.

 

[Saragli]

Congrats to the couple! Long awaited, much deserved. Shall we expect a white tie wedding this June?

 

[kalnel]

That's great that they're getting married. I wonder who we'll see at the wedding. Who are Gustav's godparents?

 

[victor1319]

Hmm, I simply don't understand. So, are Prince Gustav and his Carina here simply creating a fact, a fait accompli?

I mean, nothing has changed, that I know of! The last will of his ancestor, the, cough, very conservative one, said at least a "noble woman", what Carina is not.

And one cannot simply pretend, this did not happen. The last will in German Law is very privileged! And this means probably, especially since the news of the marriage pops up in a Danish newspaper, that Prince Gustav tries to be tricky here. Like: Sue me if you have a problem with this!

 

[CrownPrincessJava]

The thing is that Prince Gustav has inherited as per the last will in testament. I have no idea about German law, but here in Australia, a holder of an estate cannot "control from the grave", i.e. once the will has been executed, it is done. It also looks like two courts have upheld the execution of the will, meaning whoever tries to contest it will probably lose.

He can now change whatever rule there is for inheritance - just like King CG did when he ascended the throne in Sweden.


Congratulations to the couple!

 

[Lady Daly]

Excellent news! So glad to hear Prince Gustav and Carina are soon to be married. I'm not sure if this question has been asked but does this mean Carina will then become a Princess after she and Gustav marry?

 

[muriel]

Hmm, I simply don't understand. So, are Prince Gustav and his Carina here simply creating a fact, a fait accompli?

I mean, nothing has changed, that I know of! The last will of his ancestor, the, cough, very conservative one, said at least a "noble woman", what Carina is not.

And one cannot simply pretend, this did not happen. The last will in German Law is very privileged! And this means probably, especially since the news of the marriage pops up in a Danish newspaper, that Prince Gustav tries to be tricky here. Like: Sue me if you have a problem with this!

I am not an expert on German law, but I presume Gustav has already inherited the estate. At the time of the inheritance, he was not married. Having inherited, I presume it is for him to decide what he does. That this has gone to court twice and been ruled in his favour would probably give him enough comfort to proceed with the wedding.

 

[ricarda]

The thing is that Prince Gustav has inherited as per the last will in testament. I have no idea about German law, but here in Australia, a holder of an estate cannot "control from the grave", i.e. once the will has been executed, it is done. It also looks like two courts have upheld the execution of the will, meaning whoever tries to contest it will probably lose.

He can now change whatever rule there is for inheritance - just like King CG did when he ascended the throne in Sweden.


Congratulations to the couple!

That is correct. According to the will, so far Gustav was the "post-heir" (Nacherbe) after his father, the "pre-heir" (Vorerbe). Now that the will has been executed he is the "full heir" (Vollerbe). The estate is his and he can do with it whatever he wants (e.g. sell it) and leave it in his own will to whoever he wants (nephews, nieces, adopted children...) - or stick to his grandfather's wishes expressed in the will (wishes, not regulations).
The court ruled that Gustav and his father both met the regulations of the testament when they inherited/became head of the family in 1969 when the grandfather was officially declared "dead"(Richard by marrying a princess and Gustav by not being married). His opponent claimed that the 12 year relationship with Carina is like a marriage, but the court said no, Gustav was legally umarried. The court ruled that unmarried males are not automatically excluded by the will (in contrast to unmarried females), as his grandfather was also not married when he inherited.
As "full heir" and owner Gustav can now marry whoever he wants (just like CG of Sweden could once he was king).
Here is a link to the court ruling (in German): https://openjur.de/u/2340698.html

 

[Stefan]

Excellent news! So glad to hear Prince Gustav and Carina are soon to be married. I'm not sure if this question has been asked but does this mean Carina will then become a Princess after she and Gustav marry?

Of course. She will become the Princess (Die Fürstin) zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg

 

[maria-olivia]

The Wedding will happen in Germany ?

 

[ricarda]

Yes, it will be a small private wedding in the chapel of Berleburg castle.

 

[victor1319]

As "full heir" and owner Gustav can now marry whoever he wants (just like CG of Sweden could once he was king).

I am afraid, it is not so easy, since the last will mentioned the "Fideikomiss", what means the "heir" can use the inheritence at his own will, but has to leave it to the next generation as untouched as possible and in one piece.

The "Fideikomiss" is since a long time in Germany no legal institutuion anymore, but the last will is very privileged in German Law - so, for the "Fideikomiss" it is perhaps appropriate to think of some kind of modern "trust fund", but with a castle and forests and farmland in it.

And the case decision, you linked, was about Prince Gustav living together with a non-noble woman, not marrying her.

So, to put things together: The inheritence is in my humble opinion comparable to a modern "trust fund". And whatever Prince Gustav is doing, is bound by the last will.

For an anglo-saxon legal system a comparable question would be: If somebody inherits the fruits of a trust fund from age 18... - and the rules of the trust fund say, to do so, one has to have finished a university eucation by age 30 - and the "heir" does not, is the heir then disqualified?

And the same would be this "marriage stuff"...

 

[Tilia C.]

Yes, it will be a small private wedding in the chapel of Berleburg castle.

Small and private doesn't sound encouraging . So the wedding won't be in same church that Princess Nathalie got married in? I hope that there will be some nice pictures none the less.

As for guests: Queen Margrethe can be ruled out, because the 4th is the last day of her summer cruise.

 

[Stefan]

Small and private doesn't sound encouraging . So the wedding won't be in same church that Princess Nathalie got married in? I hope that there will be some nice pictures none the less.

As for guests: Queen Margrethe can be ruled out, because the 4th is the last day of her summer cruise.

Yes it is a different Church. Princess Nathalie got married in the local Church of Berleburg which is on walking distance of the Castle. The Castle Church was used for the christenings of Princess Alexandra's children. Not sure if also Princess Nathalie's children where christend there.