Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna: Current Claimant to the Throne 1: 2003 - Oct 2006

[Russian]

What I meant is that for the Orléans and the Bourbons, the notion of morganatic wedding simply doesn't exist. An "unequal" marriage is not a morganatic one, and is allowed. When Charles-Louis d'Orléans, duke of Chartes, married Ileana Manos, his wife became princess Ileana, duchess of Chartres, he wasn't deprived of his rights and their two sons have rights on the french throne.

In 1797 Russian Emperor Paul I has published Laws on Russian Imperial Family. Under these laws members of Russian Imperial Family should contact marriage only with persons of corresponding advantage that is with representatives of any reigning or sovereign houses which have lost the status of Reigning houses by virtue of certain circumstances. For example, it is many German sovereign families which have appeared under authority of Prussian king (in combination the German emperor) in 1871. Marriages of members of Russian Imperial Surname with people of more modest origin are considered morganatic. Such marriages basically were strictly forbidden. If the member of the Imperial Family all the same contacted marriage with the person of not regal advantage the posterity from such marriage always lost the right of succession of a throne. For example, younger brother of Alexandre I Pavlovich Konstantin has lost the right of succession of Russian throne owing to marriage with the simple Polish maid of honour of Catholic creed. Or children Alexandre II and its second wife of simple Russian princess have not been recognized by Members of Russian Imperial Family.

Therefore Russian legitimists consider that the right of succession of Russian throne has passed to the German sovereign families owing to tragedy of last Russian tsar and morganatic marriages of descendants of Russian Imperial Family.

 

[bbb]

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20060626/50026619.html


MOSCOW, June 26 (RIA Novosti) - A Moscow district Monday declined to review a ruling refusing to rehabilitate the name of Tsar Nicholas II. The Tverskoi District Court handed down a ruling May 25 that ignored the request of Great Duchess Maria Vladimirovna, the head of the Russian Imperial House, to recognize Russia's last monarch as a victim of the Bolshevik repression and clear him of all political charges.

 

[Mapple]

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20060626/50026619.html


MOSCOW, June 26 (RIA Novosti) - A Moscow district Monday declined to review a ruling refusing to rehabilitate the name of Tsar Nicholas II. The Tverskoi District Court handed down a ruling May 25 that ignored the request of Great Duchess Maria Vladimirovna, the head of the Russian Imperial House, to recognize Russia's last monarch as a victim of the Bolshevik repression and clear him of all political charges.

Well, the Emperor was not charged with anything in any court, not even in a revolutionary tribunal. He and his family were the victims of extrajudicial execution. Thus, Nicholas II indeed cannot be cleared of any charges.

 

[branchg]

The right of succession under the Pauline Laws passed through the female line after the death of Grand Duke Vladimir through his sister, Grand Duchess Kira, who married Prince Louis-Ferdinand of Prussia. The current heir would be her grandson, HH Duke Paul Vladimir of Oldenburg, or HI & RH Georg-Friedrich von Hohenzollern, Prince of Prussia.

The current descendants of the Romanov imperial dynasts are all morganatic.

 

[redfox6]

The right of succession under the Pauline Laws passed through the female line after the death of Grand Duke Vladimir through his sister, Grand Duchess Kira, who married Prince Louis-Ferdinand of Prussia. The current heir would be her grandson, HH Duke Paul Vladimir of Oldenburg, or HI & RH Georg-Friedrich von Hohenzollern, Prince of Prussia.

The current descendants of the Romanov imperial dynasts are all morganatic.

Neither the French nor the Russian thrones exist, so the rights of succession are to nothing, whether it is morganatic or not.

 

[Benjamin]

Neither the French nor the Russian thrones exist, so the rights of succession are to nothing, whether it is morganatic or not.

No, the rights of succession are just to non-existant thrones .

That is like saying that the Dalai Lama and the Tibetan government-in-exile might as well relinquish themselves of their duties just because the Tibetan throne doesn't technically exist any more.

 

[Benjamin]

Here is a link to some very nice pictures of the Grand Duke Georgi when he was little.

 

[BeatrixFan]

From Maria's official site;

Attempts to disparage My rights have originated with people who, firstly, do not belong to the Imperial Family, and, secondly, either do not themselves know the relevant laws or think that others do not know these laws. In either case, there is unscrupulousness at work. The only thing that causes Me regret is that some of our relatives waste their time and energy on little intrigues instead of striving to be of some use to their country. I have never quarreled with anyone about these matters and I remain open to a discussion and cooperation with all, including, of course, My relatives. But there can be no foundation for cooperation without respect for Our dynastic laws, fulfilling these laws, and following our family traditions.

From http://www.imperialhouse.ru

http://imageshack.us/


Maria presents The Order of St Andrew the First-Called to His Holiness, Patriarch Alexei II

 

[Benjamin]

Thanks for the picture, BeatrixFan.

Here's a link to an interview that Maria gave regarding the rehabilitation of the family of Nicholas II.

Source: http://www.imperialhouse.ru/

 

[BeatrixFan]

Does anyone know if Maria gives Orders regularly?

 

[Benjamin]

Also here's what the website tells about the three members of the Imperial House.

Biography of H.I.H. The Grand Duchess Maria Wladimirovna
Biography of H.I.H. The Dowager Grand Duchess Leonida Georgiievna
Biography of H.I.H. The Grand Duke Georgii Mihailovich
Biography of H.S.H. Princess Ekaterina Ioannovna

 

[Benjamin]

Does anyone know if Maria gives Orders regularly?

I'm not sure about that, but Maria (along with her father & grandfather) have granted titles. A Mr Boettger is working on the publication of a Register of the Titles Granted in Emigration by Grand Duke Kirill Vladimirovich, Grand Duke Vladimir Kirillovich, and Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna.

Source: http://www.geocities.com/~tfboettger/publications.htm

 

[BeatrixFan]

Thanks Benjamin! Wow. Does Maria grant titles associated with land or just a title linked to the surname?

 

[Benjamin]

Thanks Benjamin! Wow. Does Maria grant titles associated with land or just a title linked to the surname?

I'm afraid I don't know .

In fact the only specific title that I know of was granted by Wladimir to his step-daughter, Helena Louise Kirby. It was the title of Countess Dvinskaya (after some river, apparently) with the style of Illustrious Highness.

Source: Mr Dimitry Macendonsky on alt.talk.royalty

For Mr Macendonsky's excellent site on the Romanovs, see here.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Ah, so it would seem that they are land associated even if an actual estate isn't given. That's very interesting. Thanks for the link Benjamin.

 

[Benjamin]

I forgot to mention (but it may already be mentioned in this topic) that Wladimir granted a title to his son-in-law whereby H.R.H. Prince Franz Wilhelm of Prussia became H.I.H. The Grand Duke Mikhail Pavlovich upon his conversion to Orthodoxy and his marriage to H.I.H The Grand Duchess Maria Wladimirovna. Although he remains Orthodox, Franz Wilhelm no longer uses his Russian title (I presume because he and Maria are and have been divorced for twenty years this year).

 

[Benjamin]

Also, BeatrixFan, I forgot to thank you for informing me that Maria's website is now in English. The last time I visited it is was all in Russian .

 

[Benjamin]

Here is a Communique from the Personal Chancellery of the Head of the Imperial House of Russia that was issued on 28 May 1998 in regards to the reburial of the Imperial Family.​

Source: Museum of Romanov, Perm

 

[Benjamin]

Also here is an appeal that the Grand Duchess Maria had addressed to President Yeltsin, The Patriarch Alexei II, and the whole Russian nation regarding the reburial of Nicholas II and his family.

 

[Toledo]

Thanks for the picture, BeatrixFan.

Here's a link to an interview that Maria gave regarding the rehabilitation of the family of Nicholas II.

Source: http://www.imperialhouse.ru/

I have to say that in this family quarrel my heart is with Maria. Why? because she is the one fighting alone to keep the name Romanov on the headlines and give a positive image to her family.

 

[BeatrixFan]

I agree with you Toledo. She says quite clearly that she has no time for the other claimants because they do nothing for Russia at all. Maria does and she gives dignity to the name of Romanov.

 

[Benjamin]

This website has a list (towards the bottom of the page) of the dynastic orders of which either Maria or Leonida is Grand Master.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Wow. Thanks for that link Benjamin. Also, it was interesting to see Leonida being referred to as the Dowager Empress but when I think about it, of course she is.

 

[Benjamin]

Decree of the Head of the Russian Imperial House, H.I.H. Grand Duke Wladimir Kirillovich, on the Recognition of the Royal Rank of the House of Bagration, 22 November/5 December 1946

Source: http://www.imperialhouse.ru/

Decree of the Head of the Russian Imperial House, H.I.H. Grand Duke Wladimir Kirillovich, concerning His Marriage to H.R.H. Princess Leonida Georgievna, the Daughter of the Head of the Georgian Royal House, H.R.H. Prince George Alexandrovich Bagration of Moukhrani, and Concerning the Granting to Her, the Pious Grand Duchess, the Title Imperial Highness, 31 July/13 August 1948

Source: http://www.imperialhouse.ru/

Decree of the Head of the Russian Imperial House, H.I.H. Grand Duke Wladimir Kirillovich, on the Birth of His Most August Daughter, H.I.H. Grand Duchess Maria Wladimirovna, 10/23 December 1953

Source: http://www.imperialhouse.ru/

Decree concerning the Curatorship of the Imperial Throne of All the Russias in the Event of the Death of the Head of the Russian Imperial House, H.I.H. Grand Duke Wladimir Kirillovich, 10/23 December 1969

Source: http://www.imperialhouse.ru/

Decree of the Head of the Russian Imperial House, H.I.H. Grand Duke Wladimir Kirillovich, to the Head of the His Imperial Highness’s Chancellery Concerning the Entry of the Name of the Newborn Grand Duchess Maria Wladimirovna into the Genealogical Book of the Russian Imperial House, 10/23 December 1953

Source: http://www.imperialhouse.ru/

 

[Toledo]

Thanks Benjamin.
I wonder if any of the other clans have their own website to 'force' their claims over Maria's. I've seen the official (?) Romanov site where Maria is considred a blue blood pariah but these other Romanovs spent more time attacking her than pressing public interest in the restoration.

 

[BeatrixFan]

And thats why Maria is the best gal for the job IMO. She isn't interested in family politics - she just wants to do something for Russia and bring back a little dignity and respect for the Imperial House and thats something that the rest of them wont do and don't seem to like doing, mainly because Nicholas Romanov is a republican. But even though he's a republican, he still goes all out to tear Maria to shreds and to assert his claim as Head of the Romanov Family.

 

[Toledo]

Speaking of Maria, anyone has any news if her son is getting married pronto?

 

[BeatrixFan]

I did hear a rumour that he was linked to a German Princess but I didnt hear anymore.

 

[Benjamin]

You're welcome, Toledo .

Yes, I believe that the site you are referring to (The Romanoff Family Association) is the official site of Nikolai and his brother Dimitri and probably many of the other morganatic Romanovs who don't bear titles. Nikolai, of course, says that he is the President of the RFA and Head of the Romanoff Family (note that he doesn't claim to be the Head of the Imperial Dynasty, he, knowing that he has no dynastic rights anyways, convienently claims that the dynasty died with Wladimir). We must also remember that Nikolai is a republican, as BeatrixFan has already said, which makes me wonder why he even claims that (nonexistent) princely title .

By the way, Nikolai also has this website as well (promotes some book of his or something like that): http://www.nikolairomanov.com/index.html.

 

[Toledo]

That's the site! Thanks, Benjamin.