Death of HRH the Duke of Edinburgh: 9 April 2021

[VictoriaB]

Just for the sake of accuracy, their marriage took place November 1947.
Prince Charles was born a year later, in 1948.

Thanks for correcting me. I was commenting from memory without checking the dates first.

It would have been safer to say it was just after the war ended.

 

[Curryong]

No, and the sisters weren’t happy at being excluded. However their mother Alice wrote a letter of over twenty pages describing it all and Marina (who of course had been a guest) took it and visited them in Germany afterwards.

 

[Somebody]

I see that the guest list has been released, it's practically as I expected it.


However, I have a question: on https://www.royal.uk/funeral-duke-edinburgh-0, it says "The Earl of Wessex and Forfar" and "The Countess of Wessex and Forfar".
What does Forfar mean?

Edward is both Earl of Wessex and Forfar. The Queen gave him this title on his birthday a two years ago (probably because he has been waiting for his Scottish dukedom quite some time now; so in this way he already has a Scottish title to use when visiting Scotland). As Wessex is the older title, it will come first and Forfar second. Just like when William one day will become the Duke of Cornwall and Cambridge --> Cornwall is the older peerage, so will come first.

 

[Erin9]

No, and the sisters weren’t happy at being excluded. However their mother Alice wrote a letter of over twenty pages describing it all and Marina (who of course had been a guest) took it and visited them in Germany afterwards.

I can’t blame his sisters for being upset. Philip was upset too. They did play a big part in raising him too.

Wow. That is lovely that Alice wrote such a detailed account for them.

 

[Royalist.in.NC]

Interesting...on purpose because of the rift?

IDK: Peter is the oldest grandchild

 

[CyrilVladisla]

I like the fact that Prince Philip will have a Philipp at the service: Prince Philipp of Hohenlohe-Langenburg.

 

[Betsypaige]

IDK: Peter is the oldest grandchild

Thanks! I see now that it's definitely an age thing based on how everyone is ordered

 

[Erin9]

That's true, lots of people making difficult decisions, but people should understand. I also do not think there is anything strange in who is there and who isn't, difficult decisions.

Totally agree.

My thoughts on the guest list: they did the best they could with a 30 person limit for a man who’d lived 99 years, had touched many many lives in the course of a very public life, and had a large family.

 

[Betsypaige]

IDK: Peter is the oldest grandchild

Thanks! I see now that it's definitely an age thing based on how everyone is ordered

I LOVE this:

'All the time he is saying things that are clearly inappropriate and she giggles,' he tells True Royalty TV's The Royal Beat.

'She is trying to behave herself and be all formal and then he says something, and her shoulders go up. And she is just laughing. He makes her giggle all the time, he is flirting with her all the time.'

But this confuses me. Was Philip saying that, when he was 18 and Princess Elizabeth was 13, that he expected to one day marry her? Of course he wasn't in love with a little girl (a few days ago this came up between my parents and I because they were showing clips on tv, and I said something like "of course Philip wasn't in love with her (P.E.) then - he'd have been a perv if he was", lol. Was it his uncle that was expecting this to be a match one day?

Explaining how Prince Philip had always thought he would marry the future Queen, Jobson told the programme: 'When Philip got onto his first [Royal Navy] ship, he told the captain then that he was going to marry Princess Elizabeth, when he was 18.

'That is the weird thing, he wasn't in love with her then, but he was pretty clear about it. When did he fall in love with her? When he told Mountbatten to stop interfering.'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/...en-make-cheeky-jokes-royal-expert-claims.html

I LOVE LOVE LOVE this photo so much:

cool dad, teens, on a road trip (but Philip looking anywhere other than in front of him makes me go "hmmm").

https://www.gettyimages.ca/detail/n...rince-philip-the-duke-of-news-photo/490074197

 

[Curryong]

Who knows when Philip fell in love with her. It obviously wasn’t when they met at 13 and 18.

According to my bio of the Young Philip he didn’t pay that much attention to Elizabeth, but spent quite a bit of time ‘teasing plump young Margaret’. However his acrobatics over the tennis nets obviously caught Elizabeth’s eye. She was very admiring of how high he jumped. Her governess recalled that she couldn’t take her eyes off him.

I think the Greek royal family were in favour of the match for some years. So, strangely, was Queen Mary, who liked Philip. I tend to think that things got serious between the two of them during 1944 and just after when Philip was invited to spend several leaves at Windsor.

 

[Erin9]

I LOVE LOVE LOVE this photo so much:

cool dad, teens, on a road trip (but Philip looking anywhere other than in front of him makes me go "hmmm").

https://www.gettyimages.ca/detail/n...rince-philip-the-duke-of-news-photo/490074197

This is a great photo! Love it.

Who knows when Philip fell in love with her. It obviously wasn’t when they met at 13 and 18.

According to my bio of the Young Philip he didn’t pay that much attention to Elizabeth, but spent quite a bit of time ‘teasing plump young Margaret’. However his acrobatics over the tennis nets obviously caught Elizabeth’s eye. She was very admiring of how high he jumped. Her governess recalled that she couldn’t take her eyes off him.

I think the Greek royal family were in favour of the match for some years. So, strangely, was Queen Mary, who liked Philip. I tend to think that things got serious between the two of them during 1944 and just after when Philip was invited to spend several leaves at Windsor.

I think you’re probably right about the timing of when they became serious. It makes sense. I’ve been re-reading my Young Philip book this week. They also suggest Philip was annoyed at having to essentially baby sit 2 young girls- though he obviously made quite the impression! Lol

I think the people most against the union were her father because she was so young and inexperienced, and the QM, I think, didn’t like his German background. Or his manners. Or lack thereof....

I’m not an expert on Queen Mary by any stretch, but it is interesting to me that she seemed to favor the match. Maybe she just realized, rightly, that they would complement each other.

 

[Tarlita]

I LOVE LOVE LOVE this photo so much:

cool dad, teens, on a road trip (but Philip looking anywhere other than in front of him makes me go "hmmm").

https://www.gettyimages.ca/detail/n...rince-philip-the-duke-of-news-photo/490074197

This photo looks to me like they are parked somewhere like the Windsor horse show.

It hasn't been mentioned yet that I have noticed, but I imagine maybe next year or when Covid restrictions allow surely there will be a big memorial service for Philip.

 

[BritishRoyalist]

Who knows when Philip fell in love with her. It obviously wasn’t when they met at 13 and 18.

According to my bio of the Young Philip he didn’t pay that much attention to Elizabeth, but spent quite a bit of time ‘teasing plump young Margaret’. However his acrobatics over the tennis nets obviously caught Elizabeth’s eye. She was very admiring of how high he jumped. Her governess recalled that she couldn’t take her eyes off him.

I think the Greek royal family were in favour of the match for some years. So, strangely, was Queen Mary, who liked Philip. I tend to think that things got serious between the two of them during 1944 and just after when Philip was invited to spend several leaves at Windsor.

I imagine the only one who will ever know the answer to this is probably the Queen which is okay imo. We don't need to know everything about their relationship/marriage or any Royal for that matter.

I doubt the Queen actually "fell in love" at age 13 if you get what I mean. Probably more of a young teen girl cush on an older boy but eventually developed into something more as she got older.

 

[Lady Daly]

This photo looks to me like they are parked somewhere like the Windsor horse show.

This is a great photo. https://www.gettyimages.ca/detail/n...rince-philip-the-duke-of-news-photo/490074197

The caption says: Prince Charles, Princess Anne and Prince Philip, the Duke of Edinburgh, arriving for a polo match in Kingston, Jamaica on 6th August 1966.

 

[Erin9]

Speaking of that photo- Is anyone surprised that Anne apparently called shotgun first?! Lol

 

[_Heather_]

Speaking of that photo- Is anyone surprised that Anne apparently called shotgun first?! Lol

Truthfully, I’m not even a little bit surprised. It is Anne, after all, and I rather think she probably had a standing order for shotgun.

 

[Erin9]

Truthfully, I’m not even a little bit surprised. It is Anne, after all, and I rather think she probably had a standing order for shotgun.

She probably did. Lol

It took me looking at the photo for a second time for it click in that Anne was in the front seat and to think....well- that figures!! Of course she is!

 

[Queen Ester]

This is the one I have been watching, with clips from home movies watched by the family.

It's sad to see how William and Harry were so close just a few years ago. Lovely video, thank you for sharing.

 

[Betsypaige]

This photo looks to me like they are parked somewhere like the Windsor horse show.

It hasn't been mentioned yet that I have noticed, but I imagine maybe next year or when Covid restrictions allow surely there will be a big memorial service for Philip.

The caption reads as below...and, I would think so.

Prince Charles, Princess Anne and Prince Philip, the Duke of Edinburgh, arriving for a polo match in Kingston, Jamaica on 6th August 1966. (Photo by Ray Bellisario/Popperfoto via Getty Images/Getty Images)

 

[Tarlita]

Thanks Betsy and Lady Daly for the clarification.

 

[Betsypaige]

Thanks Betsy and Lady Daly for the clarification.

You’re welcome !

 

[Alison H]

I’m not an expert on Queen Mary by any stretch, but it is interesting to me that she seemed to favor the match. Maybe she just realized, rightly, that they would complement each other.

Queen Mary and Philip's grandmother Victoria were old friends. When news came that Victoria's sister Alix and her family had been massacred by the Bolsheviks, it was Queen Mary who went to sit with Victoria and try to comfort her. And she'd probably put up with a few remarks herself, as the child of a morganatic branch of the family who'd got themselves into all sorts of financial trouble, and wasn't as bothered as others were by Philip's complicated background.

 

[Marc23]

I’m not an expert on Queen Mary by any stretch, but it is interesting to me that she seemed to favor the match. Maybe she just realized, rightly, that they would complement each other.

She was royal from top to toe. At that time, especially after WWII it was very hard, almost impossible to find a royal husband for an heiress.

I also think Queen Mary was happy that her granddaughter found a royal match, not someone outside their circle...and of course, she knew the family well as they were related. Philip's father was nephew of Queen Alexandra, her mother in law and Philip's maternal family were descendants of Queen Victoria and were already living in Britain.

So, I think, in her eyes, she saw a perfect match, royal Prince who is not an heir to some other throne and is far in succession for the same, which could make things more complicated if he was an heir.

 

[jenedde]

The guest list was pretty much as I expected. I don't think Lady Pamela Hicks has been close to the Queen for many years. The absence of Prince Michael is interesting, given newly married in spouses of Beatrice and Eugene made the cut.

 

[Denville]

The guest list was pretty much as I expected. I don't think Lady Pamela Hicks has been close to the Queen for many years. The absence of Prince Michael is interesting, given newly married in spouses of Beatrice and Eugene made the cut.

As far as I know P Michael has suffered from cancer so it is posible that he did not come for medical reasons. Same with Lady Pamela. I think she was close to Philp but she is over 90 and again health reasons may have meant that she chose to be left out...

 

[fandesacs2003]

Are you talking about Prince Michael of Kent?
I didn't know he had cancer.

I also presume that if he was still living in London, King Konstantine of Greece would be there as out of the family bonds they were close. King Konstantine is vaccinated already, so no covid risk, but considering his health, I don't think he could easily travel and attend.

As far as I know P Michael has suffered from cancer so it is posible that he did not come for medical reasons. Same with Lady Pamela. I think she was close to Philp but she is over 90 and again health reasons may have meant that she chose to be left out...

 

[Heavs]

The guest list was pretty much as I expected. I don't think Lady Pamela Hicks has been close to the Queen for many years. The absence of Prince Michael is interesting, given newly married in spouses of Beatrice and Eugene made the cut.

I imagine the married in spouses are there for support and so we don't have 30 people sitting and grieving alone. It's a decision a lot families including mine have had to make - spouses versus wider family who've known the person all their lives and it is awful.

Prince Michael may not be there for medical reasons and also given that his brother and sister are both there carrying the flag of for the Princess Marina connection it was felt that they would represent him and a space given to another family member. It's a really tough thing to have to whittle it down.

On a different tack this will be the first time we've seen Edo in an "official" role on camera.

 

[JR76]

I understand you completely, but

"Philip himself never was a German, neither by citizenship nor by male-line descent."

"traditionally you are going by the father's ancestry and that was Danish."

Philip wasn't German citizen, that's fine, but his ancestry is completely German, no matter how he felt Scandinavian.

Also his ancestors in male line were German also...The didn't have Danish blood. They came from Germany to rule Denmark for 600 years and married almost exclusively German...

I always read he has Greek blood, Danish blood, British blood, just because his ancestors ruled there, but that is simply not historically true. You can say his ancestors ruled in Greece, Denmark, Russia, but not saying having blood he never actually had.

Those things are just facts, no matter how someone feels, you, me or Prince Philip.

It's fine for me to say how someone personally feels and I RESPECT THAT, but to change someone's ancestry just based on how someone "feels" about it is completely other thing. Those are things that can't be changed, no matter how someone feels.

I'm saying that nationality and ethnicity isn't as simple as you suggest it is. Nationality isn't set in stone and the concept of nationality is a fairly modern one that can't be imposed on societies pre-dating the creation of this concept. In many European countries it's not uncommon for families to change nationality and ethnicity within generations and then back again. Just because someone came from Germany 600 years ago doesn't make their descendants German today. Even if they mostly married other Germans this doesn't necessarily make their descendants German today if they chose not to be.
Philip's ancestors in the male line have ruled in Scandinavia for 600 years and before that in the female line for 600 more years and most of them (there are some very poignant exceptions) considered themselves Scandinavian in spite of what languages they spoke (Norse, Danish, German, French - most of them grew up speaking several like Philip himself did) and where their mothers were born.
Is Philip of predominantly German descent? Yes.
Does this automatically make him German? No.

 

[An Ard Ri]

From the BBC

The 30 guests who'll be attending the Ceremonial Funeral of the late Duke of Edinburgh.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-56765468

 

[Denville]

Are you talking about Prince Michael of Kent?
I didn't know he had cancer.

I also presume that if he was still living in London, King Konstantine of Greece would be there as out of the family bonds they were close. King Konstantine is vaccinated already, so no covid risk, but considering his health, I don't think he could easily travel and attend.

Yes P Michael of Kent... I think that he had cancer a few years ago so he may be still in poor health and might be considered high risk to go to the funeral....