Alexandra's CV v. Mary's CV

[tigerlilly23]

Why do you think mary needed to place her father cv below her own cv while alexandira's cv is standing alone on it own merite without her father's cv to back up her working carer.

And belive me people don't don't know anyone who places there father's cv on there own cv to demonstrate the merite on there career and the jobs and experinces and skills they have acheived. Unless mary played it smart and once she knew who fred was she had no chioce up to back up her cv with her father's cv just to make herself look like a hard working career girl infront of fred's family.
What was dear mary trying to prove to the royal family of denmark i wonder.

Compared with alexandria cv she didn't need her father to back her up becouse she knew that she was a career orinated women evan before she meet fred brother. And she didn't need to prove a point to gain acceptence into the royal family. B)

 

[Alexandria]

Where can I see Alexandra's CV? I have not seen it before.

 

[sky]

Well at the time of alex's mariage, there wasnt a royal website,so he CV was printed in the newspapers. But there is a little summary at the royal website.

 

[Juliane]

Was it actually Mary who added her fathers CV, or did the palace request it? I just can't see Mary sneaking her father's resume to the webmaster for Frederik's website...that seems a little far-fetched to me.
Perhaps, in the interest of keeping the press away from Mary's family, the palace decided to add Dr Donldson's CV (thereby giving the media all the information upfront rather than having Dr Donaldson's life interupted anymore than it already is).
JMO,
Juliane

 

[Alexandria]

Originally posted by Juliane@Jan 24th, 2004 - 11:52 am
Was it actually Mary who added her fathers CV, or did the palace request it? I just can't see Mary sneaking her father's resume to the webmaster for Frederik's website...that seems a little far-fetched to me.

I think that the Royal Court, or whichever 'department' or individuals who handle the media and these sorts of things, put Mary's father's CV on the website. I don't think Mary snuck a copy to the webmaster herself! (Can you imagine Mary sneaking those couple of pages of her father's CV in the cover of night to the webmaster?! )

Question about Mary's father's CV: Prior to the engagement, and even prior to Mary and Frederik's initial encounter at the Olympics and their subsequent relationship, was Mary's father's CV public matter elsewhere? For example, was his CV ever posted at the University's website or if he had a website of his own, was it posted there?

Because if it wasn't posted elsewhere, someone from the Royal Court would've had to ask either Mary or Mr. Donaldson for it.


I guess Mary's case is slightly different from the other women who have become Crown Princesses in othe royal households:

Mette-Marit's past was much more interesting than the CVs or lives of her parents -- though her father was all too happy to spill his heart to the press anyway

Letizia had her own past with the divorce and her parents are well-known journalists in Spain

Maxima's father's was controversial unto himself, with or without his CV!

Mathilde came from a noble family, so pretty clean cut

Marie-Chantal's father was a self-made man, so his CV was sort of obvious

 

[lasu]

I disagree with your theory, tigerlilly23. I do not think that Mr. Donaldson's CV should have been included, however, I doubt Mary calculated it as some sort of attempt to look more professional. The CVs were released when the engagement was announced, after the royal family had met and approved of her.

 

[norwegianne]

Well, I doubt that Mary snuck her father's CV onto the web-page. I see it as simply an easy way for the press to know her parentage, without them bothering him overmuch about it.

I haven't seen Alexandra's CV, but Mary's would stand just as good in her own right as it does with her father's attached to it. In my opinion. I think it's the Palace who has decided that it would be a good thing to do. Not Mary.

His CV would probably be easy to access anyway, a lot of professors and such have their CVs attached to their work-websites. (In my experience) As he's married to a public persona, and have taught at public schools, it would be pretty easy to dig it up nevertheless.

But it seems they have learned from past scandals in other royal houses: if you're not up front about everything, the press will figure things out, and then be mad because you didn't disclose it to them.

I think that some information about Mr. Manley was published at the time of either the wedding or engagement between Alexandra and Joachim, but as they got married in '95, before the Internet had planted a solid foot into most people's lives, it would have been sent out to the press, and they would have been trusted to bring it out to the public.

Me, I'm guessing that her father's CV will disappear from the web-page after the wedding. (Of course someone could come and prove me wrong here, that happens constantly.) But after the wedding Mary will be a part of the royal family and a grown woman. I think it will be posted until the wedding, as information for the press and the people. After that... well maybe they will have babies to occupy that space instead ?

 

[Juliane]

LOL, okay, I didn't actually mean Mary snuck her father's CV to the webmaster, but the idea of Mary sneaking through the palace at 3 am, CV in hand, is worth a chuckle!
I agree that her father's CV was most likely added to avoid undo media attention. A nice gesture by the Royal family.

Juliane

 

[tigerlilly23]

I do respect all your options on this topic i'm only speculating things about mary and this whole thing with fred. Were on the outside looking in on these two so called love birds who have been together for the past three years but we don't maybe mary did put her father cv under hers , or maybe fred first looked at mary's cv and told her that it won't pass the mark with his family or maybe fred mum did ask for it just to limit media intrest we don't know and maybe we will never know the whole truth behind mary's cv. But from evrthing i have read on the couple the way they met and they have been together for so long i have never once yet read or heard about fred mum asking for mary's cv or the media asking for it either. Have any of you heard a story of the royal family asking mary this question or even the media becouse i havn't.
And it seem too me that mary has been around for this long with fred and seems to me she lets other people walk all over her still. She has sameone telling her to dress in this way and do her hair in this fashion and apply her make up in this order and she must have a wedding dress designed by sameone in denmark or else she must give up her children just in case there is a divioice she must be fertile and she must give up her homeland and her passport plus her freinds and family if she want to remain with fred in the long term she must convert to a new reliogion. It sounds like fred's mum has a nice tight noose around pretty mary's neck and if she doesn't obey she'll hang her. Also she lets fred walk all over her and the danish media as well evan before she is marryed to fred and she must evan be fluent in danish before her wedding day approches give the poor girl a break.
If mary wants to became the newest princess and the future queen of denmark and have denmark fall in love with her same more i think she needs to strat standing up for herself instead of relying on fred becouse he's no help at the momment from what i have seen and she better quick smart get a backbone if she wants to survive in the danish royal family i know the pressure she is under becouse i came from a eourapen family myself and most of these families are strict and proud of there family name and they don't want it destoyed from an outsider taking from my own experinces with guys who have been aussies and they both demostrated themselves unworth of caming into my family or evan being with there daugther evan in other words they didn't pass the mark with my parents and my parents didn't except them.

 

[Jasl]

I think Mary's dad's CV being on Fred's website has brought more trouble than good! Well at least on RMBs anyway.

Just before the engagement, I saw a clip on the internet (I think it might have been from some Danish station) of the reporter showing some 10 or something year old boys one of John Donaldson's papers and asking them if they undersood it (I think). As if they would! Anyway, I suppose what I'm trying to say is that I do believe that Mary's father's CV was included there because the people who do Fred's website asked for it - there was already media attention about her dad being a professor at Oxford (I mean everyone kept talking and talking about that didn't they?) and how he's this maths professor etc. After the reporter spoke to the kids I think he interviewed some other Danish professor and asked him about Donaldson. And all this happened BEFORE Mary's CV or her dad's CV was posted on the net. Furthermore, I think an academic's working life is much more open than say an insurance directors, which the company would probably object to (I mean they don't want to show the whole world how they really operate, who they deal with, who their clients are etc.).

So in a way having a dad who is a professor does help boost someone's credibility, but I find it really hard to believe that one's credibility could rest solely on their parents. I actually think Mary achieved a lot. Again this is my opinion, but I'm just judging from the fact that when I watch "Funniest Commercials" or something, the commercials are done by Mojo/ Young & Rubicam etc - companies where Mary has worked at. I also think that getting a graduate position at a multi-national firm is pretty damn HARD! (judging from the horror stories my friends have told me anyway! spending 3days being assessed, doing case studies with other more stuck up verbuous know-it-all recent graduates) . But it's also taken as a given that once a graduate position is obtained, those graduates are usually fast-tracked to management positions. So yes, I think Mary achieved enough and her CV can stand on its own.

However I do think that her first public appearance and the interview sparked a doubt in some people's minds as to whether she is really a capable person. I think she looked very sweet and nervous in the interview, but she didn't really give insightful answers.

Regarding thread title, well people are always going to reach different opinions. I personally think the financial positions of a person has a lot to do with whether or not a person goes overseas to study. So the fact that Mary didn't go to Germany or Japan to study shouldn't really reflect badly on her. I think highly of Alex and Mary's CV. Indeed I think Mary achieved managerials positions faster than Alex, but this is just a factor that I take into account, and others may value more the fact that Alex stayed at her jobs longer.

At the end of the day, both Mary and Alex's CVs are CVs that I would be very proud to have.

 

[anna]

Originally posted by Jasl@Jan 25th, 2004 - 10:04 am
I think Mary's dad's CV being on Fred's website has brought more trouble than good!   
Well at least on RMBs anyway.

However I do think that her first public appearance and the interview
sparked a doubt in some people's minds as to whether she is really a capable person.

ONLY on the royal message boards ! ! !

 

[Jasl]

But from evrthing i have read on the couple the way they met and  they have been together for so long i have never once yet read or heard about fred mum asking for mary's cv or the media asking for it either. Have any of you heard a story of the royal family asking mary  this question or even the media becouse i havn't.

On the contrary.... Mary's school, her university etc were the target of media interest even before they were engaged (you can see clips on the net). They pretty much knew that she was working with Belle, and previous to that, advertising companies. Unlike some posters in rmbs who aren't familiar with the Australian education system, the press pretty much knew that UniTas law school is of good repute in Australia - they would look really dumb if they started saying "UniTas isn't good, her degree isn't good" because the legal profession in Australia know that UniTas has a good law school. Anyway that hasn't stopped posters in some rmbs. Imagine if I said Aarhus isn't good even if I didn't know Aarhus - would my opinion have much weight? IMO no.

Regarding us not hearing about QM asking Mary for her CV, well I distinctly remember Mary saying something about her having undergone a test without actually knowing that she was doing so (I think it was regarding the checks made into her background). IMO, even Ekstra Bladet can't say "we have information that QM asked Mary for her CV" - because I think even EB would concede that the "normal" way would be for PET (or something, Danish intelligence or something?) to make the necessary checks into Mary's background. I think THE WHOLE of Mary's history was checked.

She has sameone telling her to dress in this way and do her hair in this fashion and apply her make  up in this order and she must have a wedding dress designed by sameone in denmark or else she must give up her children just in case there is a divioice she must be fertile and she must give up her  homeland and her passport plus her freinds and family if she want to remain with fred in the long term she must convert to a new reliogion.

I don't see what's wrong with this. Alex had someone from Denmark design her wedding gown, Maxima had Valentino (is that right?) design her wedding gown - what was Mary expected to do? Design her own gown?

Regarding the giving up the children if they divorce, I'm pretty sure all of them (Maxima, MM, Alex) would have to do this too. All of them. They know their offspring would be the future monarchs and the royal families know that they have to make sure that the children can't be taken away. I really really don't think it's only Mary. Regarding the change of passports, again all of them had to do this!!! (except for those that are already citizens of that country). Alex is now Danish, Maxima is now Dutch etc.

 

[Times2222]

I personally think the topic of whether Mary or Alex has a better CV is getting old.

WHile I personally think Alex has been more accomplished in her career than Mary has, and disapprove of Mary's CV, I think others feel differently. We have have different standards and definitions of career success.

Why fault Mary for wanting travel around and change jobs, who knows what self-development and issues she faced in her post-unviersity years? Just because Mary seemed to have gone through more self-searching and job hopping than Alex does not mean she is a bad person. Just different. Maybe Fred appreciates that in Mary, that she is not perfect (nor is Alex for that matter) but a good person.

What matters is what Alex has (and in future will/will not) accomplished and what Mary will/will not accomplish after becoming princesses.

 

[lasu]

Shall we all post our CVs on this site so that they can be judged, according to each forum member's "standards and definitions of career success"?

I agree, this topic is getting old...

 

[julial]

Well, though U of Tasmania is supposed to be a good school, it is by no means the comparison to Harvard, where Prince F went. I believe that the US system is regarded higher than the rest in the world and this means, Harvard, Princeton, U. Penn, and other Ivys, along with Stanford, and Georgetown, etc. are considered the best.

 

[lutefisk7]

I believe that the US system is regarded higher than the rest in the world and this means, Harvard, Princeton, U. Penn, and other Ivys, along with Stanford, and Georgetown, etc. are considered the best

What about Oxford, Cambridge or The Sorbonne? They are all outside the U.S. and are considered to be as good if not better than some of those listed above.

 

[tiaraprin]

Originally posted by lasu@Jan 26th, 2004 - 8:57 pm
Shall we all post our CVs on this site so that they can be judged, according to each forum member's "standards and definitions of career success"?

I agree, this topic is getting old...

I'll post mine--I got nothing to hide or be ashamed of!! :woot:

 

[Jasl]

Lol... Frederik went to Harvard. And Mary's dad taught at Oxford. And the Crown Princess of Japan achieved a magna cum laude (or something) in Economics (I think) at Harvard which would probably make her the smartest of the lot according to the test which is being proposed here (i.e. attendance and acceptance at a well known US school).

I have to say though that well all think what we think is influenced to a huge degree by what we've been taught to believe, what we've been exposed to and our own findings. So I can just as easily imagine a person living in Oxford who has had it drilled into him since birth that THE only university that's of any good is Oxford, to think that all other universities aren't up to scratch. But it doesn't necessarily mean that it's the truth.

Just a thought, that's all... :flower:

 

[Poppy]

I think Mary didn't suggest to put her father's CV onto the website...but...maybe the staff who writes the family members' website biographies did. Maybe when they were comprising Mary's information to put up onto the website, they thought her background and past wasn't strong enough, that is, her education and her work experience, and especially her work experience. Though she's got a bachelor of Business and Law, but believe me, in Australia, there are sooo many people studying that combined degree and it's not that extraordinary. Also places in University of Tasmania are not competitive at all. If she went to Sydney and tried to get a place in a university in Sydney, it would be alot harder. She might have to study 20 times harder than an average good student in Tasmania. Now, her work experience, honestly, if you look behind the general flattering words, it's not that great. Maybe they should've put more of her "travel experience" in her CV. She once was on a trip travelling the world by herself, that sounds cool.

 

[Dennism]

I think in some ways people are over estimating the schools a little too much. In the US, it is quite expensive for a lot of people to go to a good school at all. Now there is not the case in most countries. Also a lot of people just do not do well in school or simply do not "apply" themselves to quote guidance counselors everywhere. That being said, the CV is good but what they do as Royals are what really matters and so far both are doing just fine.

 

[Jasl]

I suppose I've written this many many times before, but I really don't think UTas is that bad, and certainly isn't 20x less hard than USyd. For the most part, law students in Australia study the same things: how to interpret the law, how to do legal research, knowing the law, studying the basis behind the law, finding the crux of the case (ratio), etc etc. Almost all (except one?) university in Australia are also government funded, so the universities are fairly even. I do agree that Sydney Uni, Melbourne, Monash are a bit better, but that might be because I'm from Sydney (and so think highly of what we have!). I imagine that Americans would snif at all these unis and say "hmmm, it's not Harvard, is it!" (o wait, that might have happened already ... just joking). So in the same way it is easy to dismiss UTas because we don't really know it that well. But it doesn't necessarily mean that it's as bad as we might think.

But I do refer to UTas's law journal quite a bit, have spoken one lecturer from UTas law, know hard some Sydney law schools are (hard, but as in most cases, you get used to it and think its normal), and from this (some might say limited) experiences, I would say that UTas' law school is not one that can be easily dismissed.

Just something for Sydney-siders, the head of UTas law school when Mary was there became the Vice Chancellor (the head of the university) of Sydney University... so UTas itself isn't bad.

(I swear this is my last post regarding this CV topic! )

 

[Jasl]

Damn Dennism, I wish I ended with your line!! I agree with it so here goes:

That being said, the CV is good but what they do as Royals are what really matters and so far both are doing just fine.

 

[Ginny]

I too agree with Dennism's line

That being said, the CV is good but what they do as Royals are what really matters and so far both are doing just fine.

Being a teacher in Australia, Sydney actually, I can say that here we have quite a few forms of higher education. University has become more expensive as the years have gone on and there has been a huge push on other forms of other education, such as independant colleges and TAFE.

I have 2 degrees. One in Teaching and the other in Technology. My brother has a double degree too. My parents pushed us to go to University. However, my best friend didn't. She, though, is doing extremely well in her chosen profession and her own business is booming.

CP Mary seemed to be doing quite well in her chosen profession. She has the qualifications to do what she had first intended to do.

Perhaps we wait and as Dennism put it......her CV is good but what they do as Royals are what really matters and so far both are doing just fine!

 

[Fashionista100]

I think Mary's CV is just fine. Plus as an American I don't think we turn up our noses at TasU. Remeber there are tons of colleges and Universities in the US not just Princeton and Harvard. One of the schools I went to has one of the top business programs in the country. I could not get into that college as a major but took most of the classes there as part of another major. The thing is I often got better grades than most of the students in this top notch college and we were in the same class. Sometimes you pay for the "name of the school" and the education is the same as everywhere else.

Also, there is nothing wrong w/ Mary's job history. Some of them were internships, then her mother died and she spent some time in Scotland, quit to travel while she was still young and had no major responsiblities IE home, children etc. Then when she got back she got another job, then found a better one so went there. Then moved to France to be closer to Fred, and then Denmark for the same thing. It doesn't represent a bad work ethic. It is a person taking advantage of opportunities presented to her.

 

[carlota]

although, mary is very professional in her way, i personally think alexandra has a more important professional activity than mary. she also seems to love her past work much more than mary...

 

[Jasl]

I don't know how Mary's CV would have been if her mum had not passed away. She was going fine (worked for 2 years straight after university in a graduate position with an international firm... such positions are quite hard to get into in Australia) and then her mum died.

Maxima also changed jobs quite a bit, I've been told. Different banks etc.

Though i don't understand the comment about Alexandra having a more important professional activity than Mary. They were important in their own way.

 

[ews]

Firstly American universities are not neccesarily better. In fact the standard of Australian school sis second to none. A lot of our academics and doctors, lawyers etc are teaching in US insitutitions because our education is better in some ways. A name school doesn't mean its better. For instance La Trobe University is far superior to Melbourne university or Sydney University for US History and so are smaller uni's sometimes better than a "name" one.

Sercondly, what is with all the snarking about Mary? Its like you guys are wanting something to be wrong with her and so you're picking on her but putting two plus two and getting five. I very much doubt she decides what goes on the danish royal family's website anymore than decides what the queen says in her new years eve message. is it jealousy or just dont' like her so you're looking for new ways to come up with reasons not to like her?

 

[hrhcp]

Interesting topic

.... I think some of the following:

1.)
with the advent of the internet, we (me for sure) have become voracious readers of information, trivia and so on.

2.)
I am sure Mary's father's CV was added to inform all Danes
(and by connection all Danes and those of Danish heritage who live outside the country)
about the pedigree behind their Crown Princess.
By association to the title, it should be of a higher standard than the crown Princess in waiting (no disrespect intended here against Alexandra).

3.)
(in deference to Alexandra), Mary's father does carry far much more in the way of educational achievement than A's father.

In passing, what's 'claim to fame' of the father of A. ? Like, what were his achievements in/to life? did he start a business? Run a business/school?

4.)
In this sense, Margrethe is quite smart .... what better way to garner postings for Mary's father in Denmark over the longer term, which is great for his cashflow, he is near to his daughter when she needs some domestic support ????

5.)
like some-one mentioned above, the standards are changing with the internet ... it is after all a new medium .... so for the time being "more is better" than less under the motto 'if you don't know, obviously you're not in'.

 

[carlota]

Originally posted by Jasl@Jun 18th, 2004 - 6:32 pm
Maxima also changed jobs quite a bit, I've been told. Different banks etc.

maxima also had a good cv. she worked for many important banks as economist in new york.

Though i don't understand the comment about Alexandra having a more important professional activity than Mary.

i said that... it's just that i prefer alex's cv more than mary's.

 

[Emi]

A short note about John Donaldson's CV. If you go to the CP Frederik's website, John Donaldson's CV is no longer there. I believe it has recently been removed.