The Duke and Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 7: Oct. 2022 -

[Denville]

Originally Posted by Clematis

Sorry if this is a little OT but ADHD diagnosis can only be made after a thorough diagnostic process, certainly not in a single session.
I know this very well, having a person affected by it in my family.

What can be probably done in a single session is evaluating if there are the conditions that can justify an investigation.

I would agree that most mental health conditions are not that easy to diagnose , it is not a case of a chat and then progressing to therapy. And certianly it is not somthing that shoudl be done in public.

[Royalist.in.NC]

Originally Posted by Clematis

Sorry if this is a little OT but ADHD diagnosis can only be made after a thorough diagnostic process, certainly not in a single session.
I know this very well, having a person affected by it in my family.

What can be probably done in a single session is evaluating if there are the conditions that can justify an investigation.

You are correct - see my post upthread (1090) about diagnosing ADHD.

[Curryong]

Our Channel 9 news services here in Australia are reporting that BP have been in email communication with the Sussexes about attendance at the Coronation. Other news outlets have been reporting this too. The Sussexes’ spokesperson stated that they won’t announce their attendance at this time.

https://www.9news.com.au/world/king-...a-2a3639d04797

The Sussexes had kept details of the correspondence private but confirmed receipt after a royal aide briefed Britain’s Times of London on Saturday that an invitation had been sent out.

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by Ghost

This is what he said last night:

'Once you sign up, you do what you're told to do.’

'A lot of us didn't agree or disagree, you were doing what you were trained to do and what you were sent to do.'

Isn't it how the army works though in the UK, the US, Canada, Australia, or any other western country? A soldier or an officer is not under obligation to follow an illegal order (and, in fact, should refuse to do it as the army is also subject to the rule of law), but, other than that, or other than speaking freely when allowed, he cannot question his orders. At that junior level, they are not the ones who define their missions either. Their missions are assigned to them by their superiors. Otherwise, the discipline in the armed forces would collapse.

In the West in particular, we make sure that the most critical/sensitive decisions about the military, most notably going to war, can only be taken by public officials who have a democratic mandate and are accountable to the voters, and not by generals or the military itself. That gives legitimacy to a certain extent to the mission, but, from that point on, the actual orders have to move down the practical operational chain of command following the usual hierarchy of the forces.

Sounds like he’s not so sure anymore about his feelings about military service. He said one more thing that I do not find right now, that the army likes to recruit people from broken families. I find such an affirmation disturbing.

Well, that is a controversial topic that doesn't really belong in this forum. However, just to comment briefly, I think the armed forces in the UK recruit people from different social backgrounds, including members of the Royal Family and families in the peerage or the upper class. And, as it is also the case possibly in the United States and other countries, the "middle class" (here in the British sense, not the American one) is well-represented in the professional officer ranks.

Enlisted personnel, especially in the army, are, however, still recruited mostly from working class families amd many join straight out of school. Many of those come from very happy families, sometimes with a military tradition that runs across multiple generations of the family. I remember for example reading obituaries of British privates who died in Afghanistan and seeing testimonies of how they were loved and admired by their parents, sisters, brothers, girlfriends, and so on. But some also come from disadvantaged socioeconomic backgrounds, being raised by single moms,doing really badly in school, and admitting that, if they had not joined the army, they would have been probably selling drugs and eventually ended up in jail or worse. So, overall, I think we cannot generalize or make the kind of statement that Harry made, even though the statement might actually be true for some people.

[Moonmaiden23]

Originally Posted by Granada

Oh, oh......now comedian Chris Rock is having a go at Meghan. Too funny ! For those that don't know he is a American Black Comedian.

On his comedy special ( where he address the infamous Will Smith Oscar slap) he says..... "EVERYBODY, everybody's trying to be a victim..... She seems like a nice lady, but COMPLAINING, like didn't she hit the light skinned lottery" ????........He goes on to address the controversy that blew up the Oprah Interview about *supposed* "concerns over how dark the baby's skin might be". Well he blows that to bits by saying " That's NOT RACIST, even Black People want to know how brown the child would be".

Chris skewers her framing EVERYTHING "they're so racist, they're so racist....Some of that s*** She went thru WASN'T racist.....She was dealing with was ....in IN LAW s***."
"She's complaining, I'm like what the f**** is she talking about?"

Wow, just brilliant !

Calling her out for accusing The Royal Family of being racist. I love that Chris, in my opinion, frames this accurately as being "In Law" issues too ! Of course, I'd throw in cultural too, Brit versus American sensibilities.

Oh, and then to keep the pot stirring, Australian Actress Rebel Wilson was on an American Show "Watch What Happens Live" with Andy Cohen and she is telling him how She had recently met Harry and Meghan thru mutual friends. Rebel goes on to say "how Harry could not have been nicer".
However, "Meghan wasn't as cool, and wasn't naturally warm". Ouch.

Very interesting, all the shade being thrown recently from MANY Celebrities directly at The Sussex's. Doesn't seem to be doing much for their Brand either, when you are being mocked, ridiculed or basically just called out for "fake" Racism charges no less too.

Part of the problem for the Sussex's is that they over saturate the market for interest in them. Selling one thing, grievances and perceived slights from the Royal Family-Firm AND Harry's "Diana issues". Personally, I believe interest is greatly waning for both.......

I love Chris Rock and agree with him 100%. And yep...the market is DEFINITELY over saturated with those two.

But to racists, the fact that she is light skinned matters not one bit. Only two days ago I read a message board where a woman insisted that Archie and Lili were not Meghan’s biological kids. Which is insane. Lili looks very much like her.

Even so...Meghan was able to benefit from the not talked about but very real advantages of being a fair skinned AA woman in America, even among other Black people. She even admitted it in the Netflix special when she claimed that she hadn't been exposed to racism before meeting and marrying Harry.

The fact that even Hollywood seems to be cooling on these two is very bad news for them. They didn’t even score an invite to their "friend" Oprah Winfrey's birthday party....?!

[Claire]

As much as the general public and royal watches argue about the Sussex's - I have been witness to therapist, clinic psychologists and psychologists argue about them, and it is not pretty. While you have therapists that see him as the second coming. Others and they are the majority believe he is harming the entire practice.
People is not helping people to seek help - he is showing that therapy can be used as a way to push blame to others and not really move to healing. And I will not even say what they feel about his use of cannabis and possible other drugs as well. I have been pointing blank told that Harry is a threat to the mental health projects of the US and the NHS. He knows nothing and acts like an expert.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by Mbruno

I

Enlisted personnel, especially in the army, are, however, still recruited mostly from working class families amd many join straight out of school. Many of those come from very happy families, sometimes with a military tradition that runs across multiple generations of the family. I remember for example reading obituaries of British privates who died in Afghanistan and seeing testimonies of how they were loved and admired by their parents, sisters, brothers, girlfriends, and so on. But some also come from disadvantaged socioeconomic backgrounds, being raised by single moms,doing really badly in school, and admitting that, if they had not joined the army, they would have been probably selling drugs and eventually ended up in jail or worse. So, overall, I think we cannot generalize or make the kind of statement that Harry made, even though the statement might actually be true for some people.

I dont know exactly what H said, but it SEEMS that he's saying that the army deliberately recruit from kids from broken homes. which is another matter and not very favouralbe to the army.

[Purrs]

IMHO Maté is a controversial figure (at best) here in Canada. To participate in a publicity stunt for a book is highly unprofessional.

Personally I've never had any use for him since I read an article by him a number of years ago claiming that ALL psychiatric disorders have their roots in childhood trauma and parenting. He doesn't acknowledge that many disorders are caused by biological/neurological factors which is the current thinking among most professionals. I've heard him described as a "flat earther" for this reason. IMHO he should never been given any award.

IMHO he's the worst 'therapist' Harry could have engaged. Harry always blames his family for all of his issues and unhappiness. He seems 'stuck' blaming them for everything. Maté will only reinforce that idea.

[Queen Claude]

Originally Posted by Granada

Oh, oh......now comedian Chris Rock is having a go at Meghan. Too funny ! For those that don't know he is a American Black Comedian.

On his comedy special ( where he address the infamous Will Smith Oscar slap) he says..... "EVERYBODY, everybody's trying to be a victim..... She seems like a nice lady, but COMPLAINING, like didn't she hit the light skinned lottery" ????........He goes on to address the controversy that blew up the Oprah Interview about *supposed* "concerns over how dark the baby's skin might be". Well he blows that to bits by saying " That's NOT RACIST, even Black People want to know how brown the child would be".

Chris skewers her framing EVERYTHING "they're so racist, they're so racist....Some of that s*** She went thru WASN'T racist.....She was dealing with was ....in IN LAW s***."
"She's complaining, I'm like what the f**** is she talking about?"

Wow, just brilliant !

Calling her out for accusing The Royal Family of being racist. I love that Chris, in my opinion, frames this accurately as being "In Law" issues too ! Of course, I'd throw in cultural too, Brit versus American sensibilities.

Oh, and then to keep the pot stirring, Australian Actress Rebel Wilson was on an American Show "Watch What Happens Live" with Andy Cohen and she is telling him how She had recently met Harry and Meghan thru mutual friends. Rebel goes on to say "how Harry could not have been nicer".
However, "Meghan wasn't as cool, and wasn't naturally warm". Ouch.

Very interesting, all the shade being thrown recently from MANY Celebrities directly at The Sussex's. Doesn't seem to be doing much for their Brand either, when you are being mocked, ridiculed or basically just called out for "fake" Racism charges no less too.

Part of the problem for the Sussex's is that they over saturate the market for interest in them. Selling one thing, grievances and perceived slights from the Royal Family-Firm AND Harry's "Diana issues". Personally, I believe interest is greatly waning for both.......

I will start off by stating that I do not believe Meghan's allegation that there were conversations about Harry and Meghan's child's skin tone, specifically the possibility that the child would have a dark skin tone, that would be a problem and the child being given a title at birth or upon Charles' ascension was tied to how dark the child is. Adding on to my skepticism is Meghan stating that she was not present for these skin tone conversations, rather this information was relayed to her by Harry, plausible deniability and all that.

Having said all that, my understanding from a poor quality clip, Chris Rock states that the British Royal Family are racist and Meghan's victim narrative does not hold water for him because she had to know what kind of family she was marrying into. Now this is my interpretation, but it seems like the sub-text to what he is saying is that Meghan's problems became in-law problems rather than race problems because she knowing married into a racist family.

He goes into the skin color discussion and does share that Black people would also be curious about the child's skin color. I don't think that just because a Black person weighs in, that the assertion should be universally accepted. I am not saying that it is inconceivable that a Black person would not be curious about a child's coloring, but if it is in the same / similar context as Meghan described, to be sure there will be people who would consider that non-benign / problematic no matter the race of the person making the comment / query.

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by Denville

I dont know exactly what H said, but it SEEMS that he's saying that the army deliberately recruit from kids from broken homes. which is another matter and not very favouralbe to the army.

I am not an army recruiter, but I think it would be counter-productive to do that deliberately. The army, like any employer, should recruit people who are identified to be most likely to succeed in the job that will be assigned to them. If a person is identified as having mental health issues, he should not be immediately disqualified, but I, as a recruiter, would consider how that might impact his ability to do the job, especially in an organization like the army where his and other people's lives might be at stake.

What I said was just that there are people in the army, certainly in the United States and, I assume, also in the United Kingdom, who do come from broken homes and, perhaps (just perhaps), that group is overrepresented in the army compared to other (especially civilian) organizations. So, I can understand, to a certain extent, where Harry's opinion is coming from.

That doesn't mean: (a) that everybody in the army comes from broken homes (which is not true obviously and probably is not true even for the majority of the people in the army), or (b) that the army uses "being from a broken home" as a condition to join (which wouldn't make sense) or values being from a broken home as a plus (which wouldn't be reasonable either).

Originally Posted by Purrs

IMHO Maté is a controversial figure (at best) here in Canada. To participate in a publicity stunt for a book is highly unprofessional.

Personally I've never had any use for him since I read an article by him a number of years ago claiming that ALL psychiatric disorders have their roots in childhood trauma and parenting. He doesn't acknowledge that many disorders are caused by biological/neurological factors which is the current thinking among most professionals. I've heard him described as a "flat earther" for this reason. IMHO he should never been given any award.

IMHO he's the worst 'therapist' Harry could have engaged. Harry always blames his family for all of his issues and unhappiness. He seems 'stuck' blaming them for everything. Maté will only reinforce that idea.

I agree 100 % with what you said and think you put it in perfect terms.

[TLLK]

Originally Posted by Royalist.in.NC

I did not see this so called “therapy session” but in the US, at least, a psychiatrist, Ph.D psychologist, or some master’s level therapists are trained and licensed to diagnose mental health. This didn’t sound like a normal intake to me which would have included a whole lot of questions to Harry. ADHD takes many things into consideration: usually rating scales and consultation with others close to the person. For children, parents and teachers generally fill out a rating sheet. In my career as a school counselor, I scored and faxed so many of these to physicians at parents’ request. I always asked the teacher to write a narrative as well to give the doctor the best picture of what we saw at school. And many times we saw few or no symptoms at school but the parents did at home.

This is from CHADD, a well respected organization and clearinghouse for ADHD information :

Although there is no single medical, physical, or genetic test for ADHD, a diagnostic evaluation can be provided by a qualified mental health care professional or physician who gathers information from multiple sources. These sources include ADHD symptom checklists, standardized behavior rating scales, a detailed history of past and current functioning, and information obtained from family members or significant others who know the person well. Some practitioners will also conduct tests of cognitive ability and academic achievement in order to rule out a possible learning disability. ADHD cannot be diagnosed accurately just from brief office observations or simply by talking to the person. The person may not always exhibit the symptoms of ADHD during the office visit, and the diagnostician needs to take a thorough history of the individual’s life. A diagnosis of ADHD must include consideration of the possible presence of co-occurring conditions.

Clinical guidelines for a diagnosis of ADHD are provided by the American Psychiatric Association in the diagnostic manual Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition (DSM-5). These established guidelines are widely used in research and clinical practice. During an evaluation, the clinician will try to determine the extent to which these symptoms currently apply to the adult and if they have been present in childhood. In making the diagnosis, adults should have at least five of the symptoms present. These symptoms can change over time, so adults may fit different presentations from when they were children.


For more information: https://chadd.org/for-adults/diagnos...dhd-in-adults/

Thank you for stating this because like you I have filled out more than one rating sheet for a student's physician/therapist.



Is it possible that Harry completed one prior to the visit? Or did he have records from his school years indicating issue and concerns with attention, impulsive behavior etc..?

[TLLK]

Originally Posted by Purrs

IMHO Maté is a controversial figure (at best) here in Canada. To participate in a publicity stunt for a book is highly unprofessional.

Personally I've never had any use for him since I read an article by him a number of years ago claiming that ALL psychiatric disorders have their roots in childhood trauma and parenting. He doesn't acknowledge that many disorders are caused by biological/neurological factors which is the current thinking among most professionals. I've heard him described as a "flat earther" for this reason. IMHO he should never been given any award.

IMHO he's the worst 'therapist' Harry could have engaged. Harry always blames his family for all of his issues and unhappiness. He seems 'stuck' blaming them for everything. Maté will only reinforce that idea.

Thank you for sharing this opinion. Considering that Mate has books published by the same company and his views "bolster" Prince Harry's claims, I'm not surprised that the two were paired for this latest event to promote Spare.

[Queen Claude]

Originally Posted by Clematis

Sorry if this is a little OT but ADHD diagnosis can only be made after a thorough diagnostic process, certainly not in a single session.
I know this very well, having a person affected by it in my family.

What can be probably done in a single session is evaluating if there are the conditions that can justify an investigation.

To be clear I am not stating that multiple sessions are not needed for many cases and I completely agree that a thorough diagnostic process is required, however in some instances that can be achieved in a single session.

To be sure there are patients that have more subtle symptoms, and in the case of a child, the investigation should include things like evaluation of school records and discussions with / statements from educators and therefore will go beyond a single session. A further consideration is that the treatment for certain conditions are controlled substances, and extra care is required for that course of treatment which may not be the outcome of an initial / single session, but that comes under the header of treatment plan not diagnosis.

[Alison H]

The impression given has always been that Harry enjoyed his time in the military, was desperate to be sent on active service and very disappointed not to be sent to Iraq, and was devastated when his time in Afghanistan had to be cut short because of leaks in the press. No-one *made* him go into the Army: it was a path which he chose and enjoyed.

A lot of people have served in the Armed Forces. Until what Harry said yesterday, I'd never once heard any of them refer to recruiting people from broken homes.

[Royalist.in.NC]

Originally Posted by TLLK

Thank you for stating this because like you I have filled out more than one rating sheet for a student's physician/therapist.



Is it possible that Harry completed one prior to the visit? Or did he have records from his school years indicating issue and concerns with attention, impulsive behavior etc..?

Who knows? I would certainly hope so! But since this was televised it would be professional and ethical to share appropriate information to the public - even including a “for more information, contact….” On the screen.

But honestly, I’ve had a lot of non mental health professionals claim to me that someone else has ADHD over the years…. and tell me that someone needed meds.

I could go on but I won’t because this is OT

[Magnolia471]

The only positive difference between Harry and Meghan: it's that at least he recognizes that he has a problem and turns to specialists (even if it's all done for the purpose of personal profit). Meghan never questions herself, she just points her finger at the others and sends Harry to say in every interview he released that she is "perfect". When Mariah Carey jokingly called her a "Diva," she reacted defensively rather than overplaying it. In my opinion, Harry came out with this public diagnosis only to divert all the accusations of narcissism towards Meghan.

[Magnolia471]

I come from a military family: my grandfather, my father, my uncle are all in the military. I've never heard of such a thing. Quite the opposite, the selections to enter the military academy are very strict and physical abilities and psychological conditions are taken into account. Personally, in my country people with certified attention deficit disorder get kicked out of the army, I don't know what the rules are in the british army.
I don't want to make accusations of any kind but it seems that Harry's 'career' in the army is just the result of nepotism. A person with psychological problems and addictions should NEVER be authorized to pilot an aircraft or be sent to war zones

[Clematis]

Originally Posted by Royalist.in.NC

You are correct - see my post upthread (1090) about diagnosing ADHD.

Oh, thanks! I had missed it before writing my reply

[Ista]

A couple of posts that discussed Mate, his approach to mental health diagnoses, and theories relating to them have been removed since they strayed too far from the topic of the thread. This is the kind of discussion that would be better suited for the PM function if members wished to continue it.

[duchessrachel]

Originally Posted by suztav

I think if Andrew was smart he'll try to negotiate a deal for his daughters -- I'll move if you make my daughters working royals or something like that. Perhaps give Beatrice the Duchess of York title since, at this time, titles only pass through the male line and not the female line. JMHO

That would be the move that most savvy business people would make, but unfortunately Andrew only thinks of himself.