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  #6241  
Old 06-07-2017, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by loonytick View Post
No, I certainly don't think he's the only one in the middle.

The monarch and direct heirs will always be the absolute center. We've already been given very strong indications of what role/treatment is planned for Will and Harry's cousins. The big question going forward into the next few decades is what's in store for folks like Anne, Andrew, Edward, Sophie and, yes, Harry. Right now he's still the fashionable, exciting, young one. He certainly gets a lot of press. But what are the plans internal to the royal family for what status, what role, what expectations and what treatment are attached to a second son in a streamlined version of The Firm?

I'm just saying that we tend talk a lot about it as though we know what's in store but we don't, really. It's the milestone events that speak volumes about what the family has decided the new pecking order to be, and if Harry does get married soon then we'll have a milestone to help us better understand where things stand for him.
I hardly think Charles or William would put Anne, Andrew and the Wessexes out to pasture. As the Kents (the Duke and Princess Alexandra) and Gloucesters retire they will need the Queen's other children to still fill in the gaps. Charles, Camilla and the Cambridges, even with Harry's help, can't do it all themselves. Right now there are 15 adults doing a mix of full and part time royal duties.
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Old 06-07-2017, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
I hardly think Charles or William would put Anne, Andrew and the Wessexes out to pasture. As the Kents (the Duke and Princess Alexandra) and Gloucesters retire they will need the Queen's other children to still fill in the gaps. Charles, Camilla and the Cambridges, even with Harry's help, can't do it all themselves. Right now there are 15 adults doing a mix of full and part time royal duties.
There really is a simple solution to finding out what Charles or any monarch will do and its the best one I can think of. Wait and see what happens.

We actually have no clue if there will be a monarchy five years from now let alone a planet on which a monarchy would reside within a kingdom as there are unstable people in this world that would like nothing better than to fire off a nuclear warhead to stroke their own egos and send us all back into the stone age.

Harry's relationship though at this present time is something that is worth pondering and musing over and we scan for any news to reinforce our own opinions of where it could be heading. Harry has definitely been shown in recent pictures to be a very, very happy guy which indicates that all is well in his world.
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  #6243  
Old 06-07-2017, 07:59 PM
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I agree with both your takes @Osipi and @O-H Anglophile. None of what either of you are saying is in any way contradictory. Yes, we have to wait and see what actions King Charles III will actually take in regard to 'streamlining,' which can have a variety of interpretations. And he may see things differently once he's actually on the throne bearing the full weight of the crown, and all that entails.

No 'streamlining' measures are going to affect Prince Harry's importance to the crown, either now or in the immediate future.

And most definitely @Osipi, we can't be certain where the world is headed at this point. Surely Prince Charles and HM The Queen mindfully desire their young progeny to take tight and permanent hold of whatever happiness is possible for them in this uncertain day and age.

Quote:
Originally Posted by loonytick View Post
Re: Zara and Mike meeting Meghan...
The whirlwind of Harry's romance and Meghan's time actually being able to be in London coincided with Zara's miscarriage. For a lot of women, that's a time when you sort of hole up in your house and cry things out with your husband for a while. No matter how close you are to your cousin, it may not be the ideal time to meet his girlfriend over dinner or whatever.
Yes, in terms of the chronology of those circumstances, it's possible that Zara hasn't yet met her cousin Harry's girlfriend. On the other hand, Zara Phillips does not strike me as having a personality that would lead her to handle personal crises by long term 'holing up in her house and crying things out with her husband.' Of course losing a baby is a very devastating personal experience which every woman and her partner and family probably handle differently. Still, Zara strikes me as having an upbeat, no-nonsense personality that is quite similar to her mother's. Remember how Princess Anne once stared down the attempted kidnapper who was holding a gun to her face!

For all we know, Zara took some quiet time with her husband, perhaps also with her mother and her in-laws, and then put the devastation to rest in a personally redemptive way without having to resort to days of staying shut away in her room crying. Zara seems like a very extroverted doer and not someone who would keep herself locked in her bedroom for very long agonizing over what can't be changed. She also has a young daughter who must have been a source of great comfort during the immediate aftermath of the loss last December.

I am not intending to stray too far off-topic. I'm only suggesting that we don't know how soon Zara may have gotten back into visiting with close friends and family after her miscarriage. In terms of time frame, Zara could have already met Meghan this past March or April (maybe or maybe not). If so, perhaps Zara discussed the meeting with her husband Mike, who apparently hasn't yet met Meghan. Certainly, from his quoted comments, Mike seems eager to meet Meghan. In the long run, none of this blather over 'who met whom when' matters in the least.

Quote:
Originally Posted by loonytick View Post
... I'm just saying that we tend talk a lot about it as though we know what's in store but we don't, really. It's the milestone events that speak volumes about what the family has decided the new pecking order to be...
I definitely agree that we speculate a lot about what we don't know and can't know for sure unless and until there is official confirmation. Still, as someone who enjoys following the royals, I believe there are signs, viable reports, and actual evidence of the serious nature of H&M's relationship. I try to take it all with a grain of salt and an overall sense of lightheartedness.

If they do announce an engagement and get married, there should be very happy and celebratory events in store. Even amidst all the terrible sadness and alarming gloom and doom going on in the world, I find the possibility of their apparent blossoming love and happiness to be something positive to contemplate. A genuine royal love story, especially between these two young and obviously caring and fun-loving individuals, I find uplifting, fresh, exciting, as well as old-fashioned, comforting and lovely to look forward to witnessing.

As far as that bit about pecking order, I have a feeling that such archaic rules regarding 'pecking order' are not uppermost in the minds of or daily concerns and aspirations of the younger royals. Issues of 'pecking order' do not seem to be a concern that motivates the younger royals to get up in the morning. I'm sure they all respect their status and the royal traditions that their grandmother represents and grew up bearing allegiance to, but I don't think Prince William nor Prince Harry who take the lead among the younger royals, feel the need to bend over backward in adherence to 'pecking order.' They probably poke fun at issues of 'pecking order,' while respecting and adhering to more revered royal traditions, royal duties, protocol, personal conduct, matters of state, etc. But neither William nor Harry apparently will allow any old-fashioned 'royal traditions' nor courtier interference to dictate their happiness and the choices that impact their intimate personal lives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by loonytick View Post
...if Harry does get married soon then we'll have a milestone to help us better understand where things stand for him.
There's every indication that Prince Harry's relationship with his current girlfriend, Meghan Markle, is quite serious. That is also an entirely separate issue, despite any overlapping intersections with his public role in the royal family. If H&M's relationship was not serious, it would not have lasted as long as it has, nor would Harry have released his unprecedented statement to the press in November. It's the nature of Meghan's unique background and the fact that she's an American, to which we can attribute much of the extremes of public interest and some of the more OTT commentary on Internet sites. Of course the tabloid frenzy has always been a fact of life for the royals. But even the tabs and paps are acting a bit more crazier than usual, if that's possible.

I agree with @Osipi that things are progressing in ways we will never learn all the specific details about. The British royal family realize they are human like everyone else. At the same time, they have learned from experience how to accept and manage the burdens of royalty and the annoyances of living in a fishbowl. Their schedules are planned out probably two to three years in advance. There's no question that the principals involved in the drama we are googling and speculating about, know exactly what's going on. Prince Harry & his inner circle, in addition to Prince Charles and the Queen surely have some idea and understanding of the strategic planning necessary surrounding the increasing possibility of welcoming a new member into the royal family, particularly in this day and age of rampant social media and nonstop tabloid frenzy, and especially in the aftermath of the saga of Diana, Princess of Wales.
  #6244  
Old 06-07-2017, 11:02 PM
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There is a lot of text above which I admit to not having read this evening but I will. Anyway, I have had a question that I have wanted to ask, and hope it's answer is not buried in the above text.

This: is there a protocol regarding when a girlfriend meets The Queen, for example? What meetings have occurred by the time there is an engagement? Like, must all senior royals (Queen, Duke, Charles) have met Meghan? More than that? Wondering....
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  #6245  
Old 06-07-2017, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
There is a lot of text above which I admit to not having read this evening but I will. Anyway, I have had a question that I have wanted to ask, and hope it's answer is not buried in the above text.

This: is there a protocol regarding when a girlfriend meets The Queen, for example? What meetings have occurred by the time there is an engagement? Like, must all senior royals (Queen, Duke, Charles) have met Meghan? More than that? Wondering....
There's no protocol for girlfriends to meet The Queen. It's just a normal gradual process. Catherine's face to face meeting with her was at Peter and Autumn's wedding. Just a brief moment as Catherine explained in her engagement interview.

It'll happen when the time presents itself.
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  #6246  
Old 06-07-2017, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
There is a lot of text above which I admit to not having read this evening but I will. Anyway, I have had a question that I have wanted to ask, and hope it's answer is not buried in the above text.

This: is there a protocol regarding when a girlfriend meets The Queen, for example? What meetings have occurred by the time there is an engagement? Like, must all senior royals (Queen, Duke, Charles) have met Meghan? More than that? Wondering....
I doubt there is protocol, but I'd say yes, on meeting. First and foremost they are a family. I don't see Harry proposing before certainly his father, and quite surely his grandparents had at least met her. I don't see him asking granny for permission without allowing her to meet Meghan first. Now things like invitations to family events are another matter. That comes with at least engagement. A wedding like possible Eugenie would be a different matter then say Christmas.

Actually if Eugenir were yo get married first, would be a good setting to meet the extended family. Catherine did with peters.

My doubts earlier about her meeting anyone was not about it being serious. If it wasn't, he'd not have issued statements. Simply logistics. My doubt on Kate and Charlotte story had to do with the detail. Articles claiming she gave Kate a dream journal and so on. Such details are hard to believe which IMO makes whole tale hard to believe.
  #6247  
Old 06-08-2017, 12:05 AM
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In recent years, people have come to think there's a strict protocol for partners of members of the royal family to meet The Queen. There's isn't one. When the opportunity presents itself, it happens. Also, there's no major protocol on the partners attending family events. I know it's been many years since Edward and Sophie dated, but those years will tell you a lot on how these things go and what's acceptable to The Queen.
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  #6248  
Old 06-08-2017, 12:16 AM
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There is a difference between private family events, even if cameras are near, and official events. Being invited to stay at Windsor is not the she as being part of the official Christmas celebration or church walks Easter or Christmas. These are considered official, and a ring is needed. Weddings, lunches, riding, hinting weekends a different matter. The rules see, to have loosened a bit, as Jack has been allowed to accompany Eugenie to the flower show. Which is an official royal event. But certainly not at level of Christmas. Like sophie, Jack seems to be allowed in more and more, as he has been around so long.

Again, I am sure Harry will introduce Meg to granny. And maybe she will be invited to balmoral thus summer. Or riding at Windsor. But I wouldn't be expecting her at Christmas, walk and all, till a ring.
  #6249  
Old 06-08-2017, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
I doubt there is protocol, but I'd say yes, on meeting. First and foremost they are a family. I don't see Harry proposing before certainly his father, and quite surely his grandparents had at least met her. I don't see him asking granny for permission without allowing her to meet Meghan first. Now things like invitations to family events are another matter. That comes with at least engagement. A wedding like possible Eugenie would be a different matter then say Christmas.

Actually if Eugenir were yo get married first, would be a good setting to meet the extended family. Catherine did with peters.

My doubts earlier about her meeting anyone was not about it being serious. If it wasn't, he'd not have issued statements. Simply logistics. My doubt on Kate and Charlotte story had to do with the detail. Articles claiming she gave Kate a dream journal and so on. Such details are hard to believe which IMO makes whole tale hard to believe.
I agree with much of what you've said here. I think family events/official duties are all likely to depend on the type of event, whose hosting it, and what the basic protocol is for it. We're not likely to see her at a big family thing hosted by the Queen and DoE as those tend to be of a no ring, no invite type of situation - i.e. we don't see girlfriends/boyfriends at Sandringham. We might see her attending family weddings, if any come up (which doesn't seem entirely likely), but she might not be seated in the church with the family. She might be seen in the crowd at Invictus, but if Harry does a meet and greet with Justin Trudeau, she won't likely be there. We might see her in the Royal Box at Ascot or Wimbledon - we've seen Dave Clark and Jack Brooksbank at both.

We know at this point she's very likely met William, Kate, the kids, Eugenie, and Jack - they were all at Pippa's wedding, and very likely at the wedding reception. Based on Mike's comments, she hasn't met him and Zara yet, but we don't know anything about other members of the BRF... I'm inclined to think she's likely met Beatrice and possibly Andrew and Sarah (Harry tends to come across as close with them), but not necessarily Peter/Autumn, Anne/Tim, or the Wessexes. I kind of doubt she's met the Queen and DoE yet, and I'm uncertain if I think she's met Charles and Camilla... it would make sense for her to have met them at this point, especially if she did essentially shack up with him for a couple months at the start of the year, but if the rumours that Charles isn't all that close with his sons are true, then perhaps they haven't yet.
  #6250  
Old 06-08-2017, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
There is a difference between private family events, even if cameras are near, and official events. Being invited to stay at Windsor is not the she as being part of the official Christmas celebration or church walks Easter or Christmas. These are considered official, and a ring is needed. Weddings, lunches, riding, hinting weekends a different matter. The rules see, to have loosened a bit, as Jack has been allowed to accompany Eugenie to the flower show. Which is an official royal event. But certainly not at level of Christmas. Like sophie, Jack seems to be allowed in more and more, as he has been around so long.

Again, I am sure Harry will introduce Meg to granny. And maybe she will be invited to balmoral thus summer. Or riding at Windsor. But I wouldn't be expecting her at Christmas, walk and all, till a ring.
Christmas is always considered a family gathering. After Christmas is when guest start to arrive as the royals do a lot of hosting at Sandringham during the holiday season.

The Queen is open to partners attending things, but it's up to what the couple is comfortable with and like doing. The ball really is in Harry and Meghan's court.
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  #6251  
Old 06-08-2017, 12:53 AM
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Interesting. So you assume Zara, William, Peter, Eugenie and Beatrice didn't Wantbto invite their partners to Christmas. That the queen was willing to let them come but invitation was turned down. I would love a source got that.

Again I am not talking when guests arrive and they do all the hosting. I a, speaking specifically of Official Christmas Day events and walking to church. We have never seen someone without a ring. This is an Official family event, not private. And I don't see Meghan IMO being first.

You seem to be missing the official event (church walk, trooping so on) vs private family (weddings, Sunday tea, birthdays, hunting weekend, boxing or post Christmas get together). Precedence is known.

As she becomes more comfortable we will likely see her at ascot or garden show like Jack does. Certainly not in the carriages till a ring. But there.
  #6252  
Old 06-08-2017, 01:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Christmas is always considered a family gathering. After Christmas is when guest start to arrive as the royals do a lot of hosting at Sandringham during the holiday season.

The Queen is open to partners attending things, but it's up to what the couple is comfortable with and like doing. The ball really is in Harry and Meghan's court.
The reason why guests are able to arrive after Christmas is because many of the family have already left e.g. Charles and Camilla, Andrew and his daughters normally leave after the Queen's speech on Christmas Day to be with other family although Charles goes alone to Scotland.

William isn't even at Sandringham any more, but elsewhere on the estate, and I suspect Harry would stay with William and Kate now rather than at the big house as his father and step-mother are only there for the one night, unless he too leaves on Christmas Day to go to friends.
  #6253  
Old 06-08-2017, 12:39 PM
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Let me just clarify, that in the conversation about this sort of stuff showing us where Harry stands in future streamlining, I mean only where he stands in terms of *official role.* Not at all where he stands in terms of behind-closed-doors familial relationship. I'm strictly talking about the jobs that these folks are expected to do in their public lives, period.

And I suspect that some of what we royal-watchers see as "honor," like being deemed worthy of an interview or a balcony appearance or a spot in a carriage in a procession are considered (by at least some members of the family) a pain in the neck that they'd rather be able to do without. So not being expected to do those things might not be seen internally as any kind of insult, but rather being let off the hook. Based on comments he's made in interviews, I wouldn't be surprised if Harry were to jump at any chance at not having to be front and center.
  #6254  
Old 06-08-2017, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
Interesting. So you assume Zara, William, Peter, Eugenie and Beatrice didn't Wantbto invite their partners to Christmas. That the queen was willing to let them come but invitation was turned down. I would love a source got that.

Again I am not talking when guests arrive and they do all the hosting. I a, speaking specifically of Official Christmas Day events and walking to church. We have never seen someone without a ring. This is an Official family event, not private. And I don't see Meghan IMO being first.

You seem to be missing the official event (church walk, trooping so on) vs private family (weddings, Sunday tea, birthdays, hunting weekend, boxing or post Christmas get together). Precedence is known.

As she becomes more comfortable we will likely see her at ascot or garden show like Jack does. Certainly not in the carriages till a ring. But there.
Christmas Day (Church walk etc) is not an official event. It may be a tradition, but it is definitely not official.
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  #6255  
Old 06-08-2017, 10:27 PM
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We'll see if she goes to Ascot (assuming Harry goes).


LaRae
  #6256  
Old 06-09-2017, 02:24 AM
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Christmas Day (Church walk etc) is not an official event. It may be a tradition, but it is definitely not official.
Wasn't it only 3 or 4 years ago that the press realised that they went to two services and if they got up earlier they could get two bites of the cherry, the early service and the fashion walk later.
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  #6257  
Old 06-09-2017, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Bine221 View Post
Makes sense to me.
Also it depends on HOW Diana´s jewels were shared between the 2. In case Diana had a last will, which claims exactly "this will go to Wills, this will go to Harry".... then it is clear.
But in case she did not do this.... then the 2 brothers will have to discuss in case Harry wants to select one ring from Dianas anchestry....

There were not yet THAT many jewels from the late Diana worn by Catherine: the engagement ring, the Lovers Knot Tiara and some Sapphire earrings - not more to my knowledge. One example is her famous Pearl Sapphire Choker..... we have not seen the one since Dianas death. So I would love to know, what the boys have decided on that one.
Time will tell

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I would love to see that gorgeous choker worn by either Catherine or Meghan (if she and Harry get married). It is too pretty to just sit in the vaults.
  #6258  
Old 06-10-2017, 01:45 AM
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As far as I am aware, Diana's will left her jewellery to be divided between her sons. She did not specify what went to whom. I recall hearing that William and Harry were allowed to choose a "keepsake" while the rest was held until their 30th birthday. I also recall reading that William chose his mother's watch and Harry chose her engagement ring neither of which, in the grand scheme of Royal jewels or even Diana's, were of great value or history at that point.
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  #6259  
Old 06-10-2017, 02:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
I hardly think Charles or William would put Anne, Andrew and the Wessexes out to pasture. As the Kents (the Duke and Princess Alexandra) and Gloucesters retire they will need the Queen's other children to still fill in the gaps.
Agree, I don't see them being pushed out. In a recent documentary Anne said she plans to be doing engagements just like her parents when she's their age, that it's "in the blood". I assume she's aware of the future plans and she doesn't think she's going anywhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
I was simply explaining the authors reasoning behind the whole 'asking Prince William permission'. The article suggested the emerald choker.

Diana got loaned a tiara but she was also gifted a number of pieces. The necklace could very possibly be with her sons.
The emerald choker belongs to The Queen, it was returned after Diana's death. Since then it's been on display at BP with some of the Queen's other jewels. From Her Majesty's Jewel Vault: The Art Deco Emerald Choker



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish View Post

We know at this point she's very likely met William, Kate, the kids, Eugenie, and Jack - they were all at Pippa's wedding, and very likely at the wedding reception. Based on Mike's comments, she hasn't met him and Zara yet, but we don't know anything about other members of the BRF... I'm inclined to think she's likely met Beatrice and possibly Andrew and Sarah (Harry tends to come across as close with them), but not necessarily Peter/Autumn, Anne/Tim, or the Wessexes. I kind of doubt she's met the Queen and DoE yet, and I'm uncertain if I think she's met Charles and Camilla... it would make sense for her to have met them at this point, especially if she did essentially shack up with him for a couple months at the start of the year, but if the rumours that Charles isn't all that close with his sons are true, then perhaps they haven't yet.
From what I read the kids weren't at the evening party, they had returned to KP with Maria. So Meghan and the kiddos likely didn't cross paths that day.

As for when Meghan might meet Charles and Camilla, well Camilla turns 70 next month, and Charles will likely throw her a big party at Highgrove. William brought his then gf Catherine to Camilla's 60th party. Though Harry and Chelsy skipped it. I guess it depends on if Harry plans to attend this time.
  #6260  
Old 06-10-2017, 02:36 AM
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No big birthday party plans for Camilla this year. She told Helo she plans on a quiet birthday with her kids and grandkids. Possibly a tea party. There is also talk of going away on a family holiday.

How the Duchess of Cornwall will celebrate her 70th birthday | HELLO! Canada

That said it is likely her stepsons would be invited to attend. They are close to her kids. Possibly Meghan may accompany Harry if they are both available.
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