Sussex Residences

[Somebody]

Where will little baby go to school when the times comes

Most likely St George's where other family members (including the York princesses and the Wessex children) also attended.

Website of the school

The largish property in the top left hand corner, Somebody.

Old photo below says it's off Shaw Farm Rd. (Shaw Farm is on ordinance maps.)

Is Shaw Farm the smaller building on the other side of the road? Looks like a nice property as well

 

[Zaira]

thanks for that digging hel. It does sound like extensive renovations will be needed. But when all is said and done, this will be a lovely place to raise a family.

 

[Humbugged]

Where will little baby go to school when the times comes

St Georges in Windsor for Primary - Eug and Louise attended there .James still does



(like everyone else has now said)




The Eton for boys and maybe St Mary's (like Louise) or Marlborough (like Eug) for girls

 

[Ista]

So, was digging through some planning documents online and found out some interesting things.

1) I don't think this has been in the works for a long time. In April 2018, two applications were filed to make several interior and exterior changes to Frogmore Cottage that are directly at odds with the concept of a single family home. (The application was approved in July and the approval was good for three years.)



2) There may be fewer tenants to rehome than might be expected. In the Planning Officer's Assessment attached to the April application, it says:



3) The work in the October permit has not been approved yet -- I'd be surprised if it's started.

4) The work will be extensive, so I'm unconvinced it'll be done before the baby comes. If you read the April document, it gives an idea of the current state of the building, and thus an inking of the scope of the work to be completed:



Later it says



5) Apparently, the property comes complete with a wee building that sounds like a gem in the rough, The Studio, which is described as being in a state of disrepair. (In the April plans, they were intending to build an extension that -- if I'm reading this correctly -- would have integrated the Studio into the main building somehow).



Anyway, if anyone's interested, the documents for the April application are at
18/01216/LBC | Consent for various internal alterations, a single storey rear canopy and single storey rear extension to the studio to form 3 x three bedroom dwellings and 1 x one bedroom dwelling with associated parking and a new footpath. | 3 And 4

hel, those are fascinating details, thanks for searching those out. It certainly does not sound as though there was any plan for the soon-to-be Sussexes to move in at the point the original permits were requested, but even more pertinent to the plan, it sounds as though there is a massive amount of work that will need to be done to get the house in a livable condition. I have been skeptical that a move in date before the baby is born is possible, and these details reinforce that for me.

It works out well that it seems there were only 2 apartments being let, so only two sets of residents to be relocated--also interesting information--unless they have already been relocated.

The Studio sounds wonderful--especially the pink marble!

And for those who are worrying about the proximity of the Cottage to the Mausoleum, you really need to look on Google maps--Frogmore Cottage is quite a significant distance away from the burial grounds, not only in terms of feet, yards and inches, but in terms of the topography. And, not everyone is freaked out by the idea of cemeteries, so if the Sussexes are not concerned, I don't think anyone else should be, either.

 

[csw]

So, was digging through some planning documents online and found out some interesting things.


Anyway, if anyone's interested, the documents for the April application are at
18/01216/LBC | Consent for various internal alterations, a single storey rear canopy and single storey rear extension to the studio to form 3 x three bedroom dwellings and 1 x one bedroom dwelling with associated parking and a new footpath. | 3 And 4

Thank you for the link. I read through it and it seems it cannot be seen from a public walkway: "Can the site be seen from a public road, public footpath, bridleway or other public land? No" so privacy might not be a problem.

 

[Somebody]

Thank you for the link. I read through it and it seems it cannot be seen from a public walkway: "Can the site be seen from a public road, public footpath, bridleway or other public land? No" so privacy might not be a problem.

Frogmore is 'private' property but as others have shown, it can easily be seen by visitors of Frogmore Gardens.

 

[Sun Lion]

Is Shaw Farm the smaller building on the other side of the road? Looks like a nice property as well

Yes, just south of the Frogmore area.

Shaw Farm Gate sounds like the easiest point of access to Frogmore Cottage.

https://earth.app.goo.gl/iwt4ep

#googleearth https://earth.app.goo.gl/VAfb2h

 

[MaiaMia_53]

Here's a lovely tourist video from June 2017 showing gorgeous scenes of Frogmore House and the surrounding grounds.

We can see wide angle views of the Frogmore House steps where Meghan and Harry sat for both their engagement and wedding photos. This is truly a lovely and romantic setting. I've always been in love with the history and romance of the English countryside. It was clearly a beautiful day. I'm not sure we see views of Frogmore cottage, but perhaps the tourists do pass by Frogmore cottage in this video. I love the small foot bridge and the peace and beauty of the surrounding grounds. Quite clearly security measures will need to be taken. Probably during the tourist season, M&H won't be in residence at Frogmore cottage.

Add to this romantic setting the historic provenance and traditions of the British monarchy generally and the Windsors in particular, and I mean we are talking about some fascinating family continuity right down to the present moment. It's all been refreshingly updated via the engaging and delightful love story of Meghan and Harry. There's so much historic signficance starting with the fact that Meghan and Harry share a 15th century ancestor, to the fact that Frogmore House was given by King George III to his beloved Queen Sophia Charlotte (whose mother's ancestry traces back to Portuguese-African roots), to the fact that May 19 had a tragic significance in British history related to a prior Henry, now redeemed by a modern, magical significance related to a charming Harry, which allows the date to be joyfully celebrated going forward.

 

[Gawin]

I had heard of Frogmore House but not Frogmore Cottage so I searched for articles about it in Findmypast. It has a very interesting royal history. No, Queen Mary did NOT live there, but past residents included Queen Victoria's controversial Munshi and the Grand Duchess Xenia. It was also the birthplace of Prince Albert Victor, Duke of Clarence.

Here are some of the news items:

Morning Advertiser March 2, 1861
DEATH OF COLONEL SIR GEORGE COUPER – This gentleman expired at his residence, Frogmore Cottage, near Windsor, on Thursday evening last, after a protracted illness. Sir George Couper was first Equerry and also Comptroller to her Royal Highness the Duchess of Kent. The intelligence of his death was immediately telegraphed to her Majesty and the Prince Consort at Osborne. Mr. George Couper, eldest son of the deceased baronet, who is now secretary to the Governor-General of the South-Western Provinces of India, will succeed to his father’s title.

NOTE: The Duchess of Kent was Queen Victoria’s mother.

The Globe January 9, 1864
ACCOUCHEMENT OF H.R.H. PRINCESS OF WALES
BIRTH OF A PRINCE
The country will gladly learn the subjoined announcement notifying that her Royal Highness the Princess of Wales gave birth to a Prince last evening at Frogmore, and that her Royal Highness has passed through the perils of maternity safely and well. It will be noticed by our account of the proceedings on the lake at Frogmore yesterday that the Princess of Wales was enabled to take part in the sports, and to witness the animated scene in which the Prince of Wales played so conspicuous part, and did not return to the royal residence at Frogmore till a late period of the afternoon. The joyful intelligence was received in town late last night by telegram, when information of the event was conveyed to all Ministers at present resident in the metropolis.
We have received the following telegram from Windsor: -
“The Princess of Wales was unexpectedly, but I am happy to say safely, delivered of a Prince about half-past eight o’clock this evening, at Frogmore Lodge. Dr. Browne was in attendance. Her Royal Highness and the infant Prince are doing well. Sir George Grey arrived by special train at eleven o’clock.”
The bulletin issued at Frogmore is as follows:-
“Frogmore, Friday Evening.
Her Royal Highness the Princess of Wales was confined of a healthy Prince at two minutes before nine p.m. Her Royal Highness and infant Prince are doing perfectly well.
(Signed)
E. H. SIEVEKING, M.D.
H. BROWNE, M.D.”
The following bulletin has been issued this morning:-
“FROGMORE, Jan. 9,, 8:15 a.m.
Her Royal Highness the Princess of Wales has passed a good night, and is doing perfectly well.
The infant Prince is likewise in perfect health.
ARTHUR FARRE, M.D.
E. H. SIEVEKING, M. D.”
This morning a double royal salute was fired in St. James’s Park in honor of the event. Guns were also fired at Woolwich and at the Tower.

NOTE: Birth of Prince Albert Victor, later Duke of Clarence & Avondale. At that time Frogmore Cottage was also referred to as Frogmore Lodge.

Coventry Evening Telegraph September 29, 1893
Frogmore Cottage, which is situated in the Royal grounds a short distance from Windsor Castle, is being prepared for the Munshi Abdul Karim, the Queen’s Indian secretary, and his wife. The house, although some of its rooms have been occasionally requisitioned, has been continuously used as a residence for some years.

Morning Post November 6, 1893
The Munshi Abdal Karim, the Queen’s Indian secretary, who has been visiting his native land, returned to England on Saturday in order to resume his duties upon the arrival of the Court from Scotland. The Munshi was accompanied by his wife and daughter, and on reaching Windsor in the evening they were conveyed in a royal carriage to Frogmore Cottage, where apartments have been provided for them.

Bristol Mercury November 8, 1893
Frogmore Cottage, wherein quarter have been found for the Queen’s Munshi, Abdul Karim, is close to Frogmore House, and has been on occasion occupied by many members of the Household, such as the lady who was formerly in attendance on the Duchess of Kent. It is a building of no pretensions, within a few minutes’ walk of the Victoria Tower, the south-east angle of the Castle which is in the personal occupation of her Majesty. It is about midway between the Castle and the chalet whereat her Majesty breakfasts during bright weather and transacts the morning’s business. The Queen’s Indian attendants reside within the Castle itself, and as the regular establishment objects to wait upon them, the duty of cleaning their rooms is discharge by an occasional charwoman, who comes in from the town by the day when the Court is in residence at Windsor. The Indians have their days “off,” when they may be seen walking about the town in gorgeous attire, which entirely kills by its loudness the more somber scarlet of the Guards.

The Globe March 21, 1901
A well-known figure at Court, in the shape of Queen Victoria’s munshi, Hafiz Abdul Karim, is going back to India with a pension. The charming Frogmore cottage which he and his wife have occupied for some years is, it appears, now needed for the accommodation of members of the suites.
NOTE: The Munshi returned to India after the of Queen Victoria in January 1901.

The Globe June 17, 1901
Maj.-Gen. Sir Arthur E. A. Ellis, K.C.V.O., lately Serjeant-at-Arms in the House of Lords, has been appointed Comptroller of Accounts in the Lord Chamberlain’s Department, in succession to Sir Spencer Ponsonby Fane. Sir Arthur will take up his residence next month at Frogmore Cottage, in the Royal demesne of Windsor Castle.

Windsor and Eton Express December 7, 1901
Frogmore House stands in the midst of thickly wooded shrubs and tall trees, and is a low building. Its greatest charm is that it is so completely shut off from espionage. From the position of the house it could in no case prove an attraction to curious prowlers in the Long Walk. Of course, lights were kept in the grounds for the guidance of the police, &c. Frogmore Cottage, originally occupied by Sir George Cowper, secretary to the Duchess of Kent, and later on by Colonel G. G. Gordon, equerry and comptroller to Princess Christian, and last of all by the wife and family of the late Queen’s Indian secretary, has most probably been mistaken by those not acquainted with the park for Frogmore House itself. The cottage faces the Long Walk, and is a long, fairly roomy, white building, capable of giving good accommodation to members of the King’s suite.

Berkshire Chronicle May 10, 1902
Frogmore Cottage is to be set aside as a nursery for the children of the Prince and Princess of Wales

NOTE: future King George V and Queen Mary

Coventry Herald August 19, 1904
It is rumoured at Windsor that Frogmore Cottage is to become an occasional residence of Prince and Princess Charles of Denmark, while some people about the Castle maintain that the King has offered the place to Prince and Princess Louis of Battenberg. Frogmore Cottage is a very comfortable house, and it is delightfully situated, forming a charming reserve residence during the last ten years of Queen Victoria’s reign. Frogmore Cottage was occupied by her late Majesty’s Munshi and his spouse, and her attendant. It has now fallen to the King by the removal of Sir Arthur Ellis to the Royal Lodge, Windsor Great Park, where he succeeds the late Lord Bridport.

NOTE: Prince and Princess Charles of Denmark = future King Haakon and Queen Maud of Norway
Prince and Princess Louis of Battenberg = Prince Philip’s grandparents

Faringdon Advertiser and Vale of the White Horse Gazette September 30, 1905
From Vanity Fair
The King does not intend to make a grant of Frogmore Cottage as a residence to anyone (as has been announced), but will reserve it as an annexe to the Castle, in which additional bachelor guests of his own, or the Prince of Wales, can be lodged when extra accommodation is required. The cottage is conveniently situated for the purpose, while the garden front looks over the demesne and lake of Frogmore House. It contains sixteen bedrooms, and an extensive range of reception-rooms. It is long, low rambling white building, two storeys high, seemingly built in different blocks, with roofs at the most various altitudes.

 

[Gawin]

Berks and Oxon Advertiser October 28, 1910
The King (says the World) intends to retain Frogmore House in his own hands for greater accommodation at Windsor. It will be used, when necessary, to provide room for guests when the Castle is full to overflowing. It will also serve as an occasional villeggiatura for Queen Mary and the Royal children when they wish to spend a quiet week or week-end in the country without the state of Windsor Castle. Eventually, Frogmore House will be handed over to Prince Edward when he sets up an establishment of his own. The King also intends to retain Frogmore Cottage in his own hands, as King Edward did, for a bachelor annexe to the Castle. It contains sixteen bedrooms, and will be used to put up male guests and members of suite.

Sheffield Daily Telegraph September 20, 1912
Gifts of Royal Residences
A good many rumours have been set going lately about Frogmore Cottage and its future, one being that it was to be given to Princess Mary. I hear, howevever, that the King has decided to bestow it upon the Duke and Duchess of Teck, who will entertain quietly there from time to time. Henry III’s Tower will continue to be in the occupation of Prince and Princess Alexander of Teck, so that the two brothers of the Queen will be close neighbours. White Lodge is not to be given to Prince Alexander, as it has been announced, but will occupied by its present tenant. Neither is the Duchess of Albany to give up Claremont for Prince Arthur of Connaught, for whom a residence will be provided when he returns from his mission in the Far East.

Bournemouth Graphic September 27, 1912
The King gave to the Duke and Duchess of Teck their choice between Frogmore and Frogmore Cottage. In all probability they will choose the latter residence as being more suited to their requirements and costing considerably less to maintain. Frogmore Cottage occupies a charming position in the heart of Windsor Forest and was occupied for some weeks this summer by Princess Mary and a small household. The Queen had intended that her daughter should continue to occupy this house whenever convenient, but if the Duke and Duchess of Teck decide to accept it, her Royal Highness will be provided for at Frogmore.

Isle of Wight Observer October 5, 1912
The Duke and Duchess of Teck have given up the place which they have rented for some time at Holkham, Norfolk, and they will spend the winter at Windsor, the King having lent them Frogmore Cottage for a few months. The Duke and Duchess of Teck have spent part of the summer at Windsor Castle, where they occupied Henry the Third’s Tower, the house which is lent to Prince and Princess Alexander of Teck, who are expected to return thither in the course of this month.

Pall Mall Gazette July 12, 1913
Prince John’s Birthday
Prince John, the King’s youngest son, who is eight, is spending a quiet birthday to-day at Frogmore Cottage, Windsor. The bells of St. George’s Chapel and of Windsor Parish Church rang out joyously.
Birthday presents and messages soon began to arrive, and among the first were those from the King and Queen and the Prince’s brother and sister.
Later in the day a salute of twenty-one guns were fired in Windsor Park.
Prince John is a regular English boy. He is to be seen out almost every morning in Long Walk on his favourite pony, and his interest in other children at play is very keen. He is still as fond as ever of Boy Scouts.

Yorkshire Post and Leeds Intelligencer March 14, 1924
The King has lent Frogmore Cottage, Windsor, to Lieutenant-Colonel Evelyn and Lady Helena Gibbs. Colonel Gibbs, who recently returned from a four-months trip to India with Lady Helena, has just rejoined his regiment, the Coldstream Guards, which is stationed at Windsor.
NOTE: Lady Helena Gibbs was Queen Mary’s niece.

Nottingham Evening Post September 11, 1925
FROGMORE COTTAGE
The King has lent Frogmore Cottage to his cousin, the Grand Duchess Zenia. The Grand Duchess, who is one of the sisters of the late Czar of Russia, was robbed of her jewels soon after her arrival in England.
Frogmore Cottage, which is close to Frogmore House, near Windsor Castle, is the private property of the King, through Queen Victoria, his grandmother. His Majesty is very thoughtful in lending this residence. Two previous tenants were Colonel and Lady Helena Gibbs, the latter of whom is Queen Mary’s niece.

Bognor Regis Observer September 30, 1936
Grand Duchess Xenia’s New Home
The King’s interest in the welfare of his father’s old friends is aptly expressed in the gift of a house at Hampton Court which he made to the Grand Duchess Xenia, sister of the late Czar of Russia, recently. For nearly 20 years she has lived in Frogmore Cottage, Windsor Great Park, which put at her disposal by King George when she escaped from the revolution in 1917, but the passing of the late King and the death of Princess Victoria, the King’s sister, have caused the cottage to become the centre of many sad memories for her. At King Edward’s suggestion, therefore, the Grand Duchess has moved from Frogmore Cottage and has gone to a new home which he placed at her disposal at Hampton Court. Here, in a new atmosphere, it is hoped the Grand Duchess, who is 62, will be able to forget the many sad bereavements she has suffered during the past few years.

Aberdeen Press and Journal July 7, 1937
COUNTRY HOME OF QUEEN MARY
FUTURE OF FROGMORE COTTAGE
Queen Mary intends, it is understood, to make Frogmore Cottage, Windsor, her country home, writes a “Daily Sketch” reporter.
This was foreshadowed some time ago when the Grand Duchess Xenia gave up the house to go to Hampton Court.
A change in the occupancy of this “grace and favour” residence was decided on by King Edward, who intimated to the Grand Duchess that he would require the house.
King George V gave the use of Frogmore Cottage to the Grand Duchess when she came as a refugee to this country after the revolution of 1918.
Residence at Frogmore will bring Queen Mary into close touch with the King and Queen during week-ends, when their Majesties are at Royal Lodge, which they have decided to retain as their week-end home.
Built on Georgian lines, Frogmore Cottage is about half a mile from Windsor Castle, and within three or four miles of Royal Lodge. Although not a large house it is comfortable and convenient, with easy access of the long walk.
I understand it will be thoroughly renovated before Queen Mary takes possession, which will not be before her return from holiday in Scotland.

Coventry Evening Telegraph July 7, 1937
There is no truth in the report that Queen Mary is to make Frogmore Cottage, Windsor, her country home.

Dundee Evening Telegraph March 29, 1938
Country Home for Duke and Duchess of Gloucester
Frogmore Cottage, just below the Castle at Windsor, and off the Long Walk, is likely to be the residence of the Duke and Duchess of Gloucester.
They have been seeking a country house, in addition to St. James’s Palace, and the King has offered them the use of Frogmore.
This was for many years the home of Grand Duchess Zenia when she was a Russian refugee. When the Duke of Windsor was King, the Grand Duchess moved over to Hampton Court, so that Queen Mary might have Frogmore. However, the place never appealed to Her Majesty. For one thing it was not big enough, and when the King invited his mother to continue at Sandringham, she abandoned the idea of living at Frogmore altogether.
It is one of the “grace and favour” residences in the gift of the King.

 

[MaiaMia_53]

I got the info about Queen Mary from a tweet by Omid Scobie which has Queen Mary residing there from 1936. So from your post, it looks like the Queen Mary info was the gossip of the day in a different era! ? Thanks for all the fascinating contemporaneous published reports from the early 20th-century re occupants of Frogmore House!

This tweet from Omid Scobie references the fact that Frogmore cottage was previously the home of many royal connections, including Grand Duchess Xenia, Queen Mary, and also during the reign of Queen Victoria, her devoted friend and Indian servant, Abdul Karim:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1066274731060600833

As one commenter noted under Omid's tweet: "...living in this huge, peaceful slice of heaven is a blessing. Meghan will be just fine."

I'm sure this is entirely M&H's desire and dream come true that they envisioned during their courtship as they walked on the grounds of the Windsor estate.


Why do you describe Queen Victoria's friend and servant, Abdul Karim, as 'controversial'? Obviously, from the recent book and movie, it was not Karim who provoked controversy. The controversy came from the horrified snobbishness and prejudiced attitudes of QV's family and royal courtiers. Karim was very badly treated after Queen Victoria's death, and his relationship with HMQV was shrouded in the sands of time until recently.

 

[Gawin]

I got the info about Queen Mary from a tweet by Omid Scobie which has Queen Mary residing there from 1936. So from your post, it looks like the Queen Mary info was the gossip of the day in a different era! ?

This tweet from Omid Scobie references the fact that Frogmore cottage was previously the home of many royal connections, including Grand Duchess Xenia, Queen Mary, and also during the reign of Queen Victoria, her devoted friend and Indian servant, Abdul Karim:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1066274731060600833

See the last two articles I posted. Queen Mary may have *stayed* at Frogmore Cottage on occasion but she never *lived* in it. There's no mention whatsoever of Frogmore Cottage in James Pope-Hennessy's authorized biography of her although he mentions all her other residences and the time and care she took in decorating them, which is what made me suspicious of these claims in the first place.

Why do you describe Queen Victoria's friend and servant, Abdul Karim, as 'controversial'? Obviously, from the recent book and movie, it was not Karim who provoked controversy. The controversy came from the horrified snobbishness and prejudiced attitudes of QV's family and royal courtiers. Karim was very badly treated after Queen Victoria's death, and his relationship with HMQV was shrouded in the sands of time until recently.

Because Queen Victoria's courtiers didn't approve of him and refused to associate with him. So yes, he did provoke controversy even if it was for reasons we rightfully consider unacceptable today. Being controversial doesn't necessarily mean you are the one in the wrong.

There's so much historic signficance starting with the fact that Meghan and Harry share a 15th century ancestor, to the fact that Frogmore House was built by King George III for his beloved Queen Sophia Charlotte (whose mother's ancestry traces back to Portuguese-African roots),

This is OT but...George III's grandmother Queen Caroline also descended from Queen Charlotte's 15th-century ancestor, Margarita de Castro e Souza, a Portuguese noblewoman who may have had a 13th century ancestor with African ancestry.

So did Empress Catherine the Great of Russia and Empress Maria Theresa of Austria. Today probably all the European royal families descend from Margarita, not just the BRF.

 

[MaiaMia_53]

...I also think the tension thing between the Cambridges and Sussexes is tabloid rumor, although I could see there being tension between some staff.

But both men now have their own lives and families so having independent living arrangements that suit them and their families isn't that odd.

Of course it's not odd. And yes, the tabloids do enjoy stirring up complete falsehoods. That's because of the fascination many in the public have about the lives of royals, especially British royals. And frankly, there's a lot we will never fully know about any of them. Myths and falsehoods are passed down through the ages. But some kernels of truth are known, mainly from what the royals personally reveal.

Indeed nothing is unusual about two close brothers remaining close even when the older brother marries. And then, once the younger brother marries and starts a family, it makes sense that they do not want to live on top of each other, which is not the scenario the media has been dreaming up for Diana's sons. The brothers will obviously still be working closely together and maintaining close relationships, but living much more separately than they did in their 20s and early 30s. It's like brothers being involved in a large family business, and then separating their staffs once they are both married and increasingly are taking on separate duties and pursuing separate lives raising their individual families. These mundane realities are just on a larger-than-life scale when it involves the Windsors.

As Lumutqueen mentions below, I too doubt there's any serious tension between Harry & William, but slight disagreements are normal and to be expected, as are tensions between royal staffers. Most likely H&M themselves have always known what they wanted their living arrangements to end up being. As usual, it's been the public, royal reporters, and the tabloid media speculating and creating all kinds of assumptions and scenarios that can't be proven.

You know what, personally, I think there is something in this. Not sinister or hateful but Henry has been a third wheel with William and Catherine for a long time, and now he's married, the "foursome" has formed instead. Now that Meghan has settled in I do think it's time they become two twosomes. ? They are siblings, and I imagine they do have their ups and downs but they do both need to lead separate lives as couples. Getting away and not being under each others feet is a good thing in my eyes.

I completely agree.

Nothing was ever even officially confirmed about them renting in the Cotswolds, so I don't see why they would confirm anything one way or the other about a rental property now.

Sure it's not unusual for nothing to be mentioned about the rumored Cotswolds rental. I do think M&H have some kind of retreat in the Cotswolds, even if it's just a cottage on the Soho Farmhouse property. More than likely, however, there is truth to the speculation that H&M have been spending a lot of time in the Cotswolds in a rented property, particularly since we know they enjoy living in the English countryside.

For privacy sake, they surely do not want to shed any light at all on whereever they might be staying in the Cotswolds, so with that in mind, KP didn't say anything. However, that doesn't negate my wondering whether they might still use the Cotswolds property, and hoping for some official news, if only to scotch further speculation. In this thread, there's already been speculation that if H&M are renting a house in the Cotswolds, they may give it up once they move to Frogmore Cottage. It's just more that we don't know, and thus unsurprisingly, speculation will continue.

 

[MaiaMia_53]

See the last two articles I posted. Queen Mary may have *stayed* at Frogmore Cottage on occasion but she never *lived* in it. There's no mention whatsoever of Frogmore Cottage in James Pope-Hennessy's authorized biography of her although he mentions all her other residences and the time and care she took in decorating them, which is what made me suspicious of these claims in the first place.

Yep it makes sense that Queen Mary might have spent time at Frogmore Cottage even if it was before she became Queen. One of the reports you posted does reference the fact that the cottage was used as a nursery for some of the royal children, and later as a refuge for King George V/ Queen Mary's epileptic son, John.

Because Queen Victoria's courtiers didn't approve of him and refused to associate with him. So yes, he did provoke controversy even if it was for reasons we rightfully consider unacceptable today. Being controversial doesn't necessarily mean you are the one in the wrong.

Sure, but the way he's being labeled as 'controversial' has negative connotations, and is still indicative of the pretentiousness and ignorant prejudices of that time in history, which still reverberate down to the present day, obviously. We can see it often in some of the coverage of the Duchess of Sussex.

 

[Pranter]

https://www.nytimes.com/1937/07/07/...more-cottage-near-windsor-castle-will-be.html

July 7, 1937 news article talking about Queen Mary and Frogmore Cottage.



LaRae

 

[Gawin]

https://www.nytimes.com/1937/07/07/...more-cottage-near-windsor-castle-will-be.html

July 7, 1937 news article talking about Queen Mary and Frogmore Cottage.



LaRae

The New York Times article was wrong. A lot of inaccurate articles about the Royal Family were published then, just as they are now. See the last two articles I posted above (which were published in England), one of which specifically states the reports of Queen Mary moving to Frogmore Cottage were wrong. Frogmore Cottage was *considered* for Queen Mary but she decided it was not to her liking. And as I pointed out earlier, James Pope-Hennessy says nothing about Frogmore Cottage in his authorized biography of Queen Mary although he discusses her other residences. The British newspaper database Findmypast (which I used to find the articles about Frogmore Cottage I posted) does not contain one single article about Queen Mary moving into Frogmore Cottage, although the royal family's activities were covered in detail. One article, which I didn't post, stated Frogmore Cottage was under consideration for Princess Elizabeth in 1947, which would hardly have happened if her imperious grandmother were already living there.

Queen Mary never lived in Frogmore Cottage.

 

[MaiaMia_53]

This is OT but...George III's grandmother Queen Caroline also descended from Queen Charlotte's 15th-century ancestor, Margarita de Castro e Souza, a Portuguese noblewoman who may have had a 13th century ancestor with African ancestry.

So did Empress Catherine the Great of Russia and Empress Maria Theresa of Austria. Today probably all the European royal families descend from Margarita, not just the BRF.

Thanks for pointing out these additional connections. Indeed, part of Meghan's appeal to the general populace is in part due to her interesting heritage, not unlike Queen Sophia Charlotte's interesting heritage. In the 1700s, current attitudes about skin color and ethnic groups were not as negatively developed and ingrained. The prejudices began to escalate in the late 1700s via the writings of prominent individuals. Check out the book, Stamped From the Beginning, by Ibram X. Kendi.

Your stating that all of the European royal families descend in some way from Margarita is unsurprising. This historic reality is one reason why I referenced the unstated significance of Frogmore House and Windsor to Harry & Meghan (beyond it's idyllic country setting). Even though the royals have said nothing, I believe there is a connection between H&M's love of Windsor and Frogmore in particular, which has to do with all the Windsor family history steeped in those grounds, including the King George III/ Queen Sophia Charlotte love story, QSC's ethnic background, and the fact that KGIII was the last British King of America (which connects to Meghan's American and ethnic heritage).

Indeed, if we go back far enough, all of humanity are connected in some way. But that's too mind-blowing for most of us to comprehend.

Here's info on the limited tourist dates annually for visiting Frogmore House:
https://www.windsor.gov.uk/things-to-do/frogmore-house-p50923

 

[Gawin]

Your stating that all of the European royal families descend in some way from Margarita is unsurprising. This historic reality is one reason why I referenced the unstated significance of Frogmore House and Windsor to Harry & Meghan (beyond it's idyllic country setting). Even though the royals have said nothing, I believe there is a connection between H&M's love of Windsor and Frogmore in particular, which has to do with all the Windsor family history steeped in those grounds, including the King George III/ Queen Sophia Charlotte love story, QSC's ethnic background, and the fact that KGIII was the last British King of America (which connects to Meghan's American and ethnic heritage).

That's a very good point and one I hadn't thought of. Meghan may very well have a special affection for Frogmore due its association with Queen Charlotte and the stories of Charlotte's African ancestry.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I like how KP made sure to mention that their official office will continue to be at KP. The rumors of tension and splitting are false. Now the couple must be rather busy overseeing the finishing renovations of their new family home.

Not necessarily.

KP is where the offices are for the Cambridges, Gloucesters, Kents etc ... and they are separate offices so there could easily be a split between the Cambridge and Sussex offices.

In fact it makes sense that there will be as William increases his workload as he moves closer to being the heir apparent and eventual King.

Andrew, Edward and Anne all have separate offices at BP as well.

It is more normal for each adult royal to have their own office as it is a sign of them being an adult and grown up.

 

[Pranter]

The New York Times article was wrong. A lot of inaccurate articles about the Royal Family were published then, just as they are now. See the last two articles I posted above (which were published in England), one of which specifically states the reports of Queen Mary moving to Frogmore Cottage were wrong. Frogmore Cottage was *considered* for Queen Mary but she decided it was not to her liking. And as I pointed out earlier, James Pope-Hennessy says nothing about Frogmore Cottage in his authorized biography of Queen Mary although he discusses her other residences. Queen Mary never lived in Frogmore Cottage.

Ah ok Thanks Gawin.


LaRae

 

[jacqui24]

Not necessarily.

KP is where the offices are for the Cambridges, Gloucesters, Kents etc ... and they are separate offices so there could easily be a split between the Cambridge and Sussex offices.

In fact it makes sense that there will be as William increases his workload as he moves closer to being the heir apparent and eventual King.

Andrew, Edward and Anne all have separate offices at BP as well.

It is more normal for each adult royal to have their own office as it is a sign of them being an adult and grown up.

Agreed. I find it annoying that just because two grown adults with two full time workload now might separate their offices means they’ve got beef with each other. Or the insinuation that one of the wives is causing some kind of trouble as many of the articles try to suggest. Andrew and Edward shared a Private Secretary once upon a time, did we expect them to do the same forever?

Just like many siblings choose not to live next to each other even if they lived together growing up. It’s a natural progression of life called growing up.

 

[Gawin]

Ah ok Thanks Gawin.


LaRae

Apparently Harry and Meghan don't share Queen Mary's grand taste. ?

 

[jacqui24]

Apparently Harry and Meghan don't share Queen Mary's grand taste. ?

I imagine what is considered grand is relative. When you wear tiaras to dinner normally, 10 bedroom might not be sufficient.

 

[Countessmeout]

That's a very good point and one I hadn't thought of. Meghan may very well have a special affection for Frogmore due its association with Queen Charlotte and the stories of Charlotte's African ancestry.

I highly doubt they chose a home because it was made for Charlotte whose thirteen time great grandmother may have had African roots. Most historians believe Madragena was not moorish. It seems some people always want to make it about race one way or the other, good or bad.

The couple were drawn to the home when they used Windsor and its estates as a place to escape attention and be outside together.

 

[Dman]

Not necessarily.

KP is where the offices are for the Cambridges, Gloucesters, Kents etc ... and they are separate offices so there could easily be a split between the Cambridge and Sussex offices.

In fact it makes sense that there will be as William increases his workload as he moves closer to being the heir apparent and eventual King.

Andrew, Edward and Anne all have separate offices at BP as well.

It is more normal for each adult royal to have their own office as it is a sign of them being an adult and grown up.

What I’m saying is that their official office remains at Kensington Palace. The media is using Harry and Meghan moving to their new family home as a base for their false stories about tension between the couples. Everyone knew the Sussex’s couldn’t turn their current small Cottage into a family home. They had to move eventually. There’s no more large apartments available at KP, so they got a larger house at Windsor. It’s just that simple.

 

[MaiaMia_53]

Agreed. I find it annoying that just because two grown adults with two full time workload now might separate their offices means they’ve got beef with each other. Or the insinuation that one of the wives is causing some kind of trouble as many of the articles try to suggest. Andrew and Edward shared a Private Secretary once upon a time, did we expect them to do the same forever?

Just like many siblings choose not to live next to each other even if they lived together growing up. It’s a natural progression of life called growing up.

Indeed. And I also think that in addition to the reports of Meghan and Harry preferring the English countryside, the fact is that although Harry and William share friends in common, their wives do not. I also think Meghan & Kate have different interests and personalities. Surely they are cordial and friendly and will have an unusual bond for the rest of their lives in being married to the sons of Diana. But altogether, I can see M&H wanting to set up permanent residence away from KP in a place of their own choosing.

It's possible all of these eventual living arrangement changes were discussed and known between the brothers prior to M&H's wedding. Certainly, arrangements will have been started many months ago regarding the renovations to Frogmore Cottage.

 

[Gawin]

I highly doubt they chose a home because it was made for Charlotte whose thirteen time great grandmother may have had African roots. Most historians believe Madragena was not moorish. It seems some people always want to make it about race one way or the other, good or bad.

The couple were drawn to the home when they used Windsor and its estates as a place to escape attention and be outside together.

No one said they chose Frogmore Cottage for that reason. And the story about Queen Charlotte's African ancestry doesn't need to be true in order to be drawn by it.

 

[jacqui24]

What I’m saying is that their official office remains at Kensington Palace. The media is using Harry and Meghan moving to their new family home as a base for their false stories about tension between the couples. Everyone knew the Sussex’s couldn’t turn their current small Cottage into a family home. They had to move eventually. There’s no more large apartments available at KP, so they got a larger house at Windsor. It’s just that simple.

What’s odd about this having to be tension is that William actually hasn’t lived in London primarily for a number of years. The Cambridges only moved to London in the second half of last year. George even went to school in Norfolk. So much for the always up in each other’s home until now narrative.

 

[MaiaMia_53]

I imagine what is considered grand is relative. When you wear tiaras to dinner normally, 10 bedroom might not be sufficient.

Ah, whereas for a modern, laid-back California girl like Meghan with simple unpretentious tastes, 10 bedrooms is delightfully more than grand. It's like her cup runneth over. To be able to reside at Frogmore Cottage with gorgeous views of Frogmore House and Windsor Home Park is surely an idyllic dream come true for both of them. They will be living near the site where they celebrated the happiest day of their lives.

I am always reminded of the self-told anecdote by Meghan. She was in her very own trailer on the set of Suits soon after landing the role. Looking at the basket of fresh fruit provided to her and glancing around at her very own trailer, Meghan joyfully expressed thanks for her blessings, instead of snootily feeling like she had arrived. She remembered all those years of auditions and rejections, and she rejoiced with thanksgiving. She related this story during an October 2016 gathering of the Create & Cultivate conference. This was at the time right before it was widely revealed she was dating Prince Harry.

So it's not surprising that Meghan likely feels blessed to make her permanent home in a 10-bedroom cottage on the grounds of historic Windsor Castle and grand Frogmore House. I'd say that sounds pretty luxurious enough for anyone.

Meghan told the Vanity Fair reporter for the September VF cover story, "I never define myself by my relationships." So, even as she was dating Prince Harry, Meghan was cognizant of her blessings and very attuned to sharing her hard-won life lessons with others. Meghan sharing her life lessons is what I miss most about her joining the royal family. But if her work with the Hubb Community Kitchen is any indication, she will continue to reach out to the public in whatever ways she can that will resonate and make a significant difference.

 

[MaiaMia_53]

No one said they chose Frogmore Cottage for that reason. And the story about Queen Charlotte's African ancestry doesn't need to be true in order to be drawn by it.

Oh, of course. I agree with your response to Countessmeout. There is something fascinating about King George III and Queen Sophia Charlotte, which has to do with human history, and that's very appealing. I think this is particularly true when we think of his tragic illness (thought to be porphyria) which could not be diagnosed properly at that time in history because nothing was known or understood about it. So he goes down in history as the Mad King who lost the colonies. The reality might be something very different. It would be cool to see George and Sophia Charlotte's story faithfully dramatized with the new information that's available.

And at the same time, as you note, Windsor Castle and its environs, especially the lovely area around Frogmore House has it's very own delightful appeal, regardless of the fascinating historic connections, which I personally imagine to be significant and romantic.

The royals simply rarely reveal stuff that's intimate and personal. However, Harry is much more forthcoming and revealing of his personality than many of the other royals. On their walkabouts, we can't help but notice such incidences as when Harry brought over to meet Meghan the pretty young girl of color who told Harry she wanted to be an actor like Meghan. When they were introduced, Meghan spontaneously hugged the young girl close. Think how meaningful and inspiring that moment was for the young girl. On the recent South Pacific tour, there was the story of another very young female child who it's said Harry recognized as having a resemblance to Meghan.

Therefore, I don't think it's a stretch that the royals are aware of Queen Sophia Charlotte's ancestry, and that Harry shared this family history with Meghan during their time spent on the Windsor Estate. Even without these interesting connections, of course Windsor is a beautiful locale and St. George's Chapel is a lovely place for an intimate, yet traditional royal wedding. Harry apparently spent some happy childhood moments at Windsor, and he attended nearby Eton, so he was surely happy to share with Meghan, the Windsor Estate's history and his fond childhood memories of growing up there.

Frankly I didn't know a lot about Windsor and it's environs until recently, with the advent of Meghan joining the British royal family. In fact, I previously knew nothing at all about Frogmore House. So Meghan joining the British royal family has provided the opportunity for many who are interested in British royal history, to learn a great deal.

There's really nothing negative about the fact, as Meghan said in the engagement interview, that she's proud of who she is, and she embraces who she is. That's clearly one of the reasons why Harry loves her. Recognizing and honoring one's heritage and making sure to include some aspects of it in one's new life is not negative. We saw touches of that inclusive recognition and honoring during the royal wedding. No conversation about any of our backgrounds has to be negative, simply because it's mentioned as a touchstone that has to do with human history.