Sussex Residences

[Osipi]

This is true and its quite possible that the same will be done for Harry and Meghan with Frogmore Cottage. A *very* long lease.

Andrew has started with a 75 year lease on Royal Lodge and if I'm not mistaken, that lease can extend to his daughters after his death too. Edward's lease is for 50 years. Both Andrew and Edward paid into renovations to their residences with their own private monies along with Crown Estate funding part of it (at least at Bagshot).

It makes good business sense to me.

 

[muriel]

Both Andrew and Edward paid into renovations to their residences with their own private monies along with Crown Estate funding part of it (at least at Bagshot).

To the extent renovations were funded by either the lessor or the lessee, adjustments were made to the amount of the annual lease rentals or the amounts paid upfront.

 

[Osipi]

Yeps. It occurred to me later after I'd posted why I probably didn't see any mention of the Crown Estate paying into the renovations that Andrew did for Royal Lodge. My thought is that Royal Lodge was already up to code and passed muster as a residence as the Queen Mum lived there until her death in 2002. Andrew took Royal Lodge over in 2004, I believe.

To be honest, I'd much rather see Harry and Meghan living within Windsor Home Park where the security is probably the best and keeping this historic cottage alive and well than buying a property of their own somewhere else. To me, it just adds to the personality of the monarchy and its people.

 

[MARG]

I have to admit the "early" move is no surprise. Media interest in their bolthole maxed out with photographs and the physical address right down to the postcode. With that their privacy was no longer guaranteed, neither is their safety.

As an aside, the fact that they have been all but living there full time except when they have engagements gives the lie to the notion that the move to Frogmore House was a result of a falling out between the Fab Four and has caused upset because they haven't been at KP full time for a long time.

The idea that they are moving before the due date is just common sense to me if they are responsible for the interior decoration of the house. Being on site or close to it is essential as IMO you cannot supervise the interior decoration of your forever home long distance. I am sure there will be ideas that won't work or ideas that are a result of being there.

 

[Fem]

Makes complete sense.

> Once they move into Frogmore Cottage, they will not need the place in the Cotswolds. FC will fulfil the role of principal residence and country home.

> If they wanted a country home in the longer term, they would buy one or get one on the existing royal estates, rather than renting.

> This pattern is also consistent with Anne, Andrew and Edward where they have a large home outside London, and a pied-a-terre in London. None of them have country homes in addition to their principal homes.

While I usually completely agree with you, I have doubts about your last point. I started wondering lately if Meghan and Harry won't go somewhere in the middle of that trend. Yes, they did get a large-ish home outside of London (and it's true, it's close enough for daily commute to London if needed), but Frogmore Cottage is not coming even close in size to Bagshot/Royal Lodge. So I wouldn't be that surprised if in the future they got another property, be it in London or deep in the country (Cotswolds? Norfolk?), with London being my guess in that situation.

It could just be another way to go - instead of a huge country home and something really small in London, getting something big, but not massive, in both places.

 

[Osipi]

Y'know, that thought you bring up, Fem, never occurred to me. For some reason or the other, I just don't picture either Harry or Meghan as being the type of people that would want a huge, palatial home or something overly grand. To me, they seem the type of people that could be happy at Frogmore Cottage as a lifetime leaser feeling its big enough and cozy enough to raise a family in.

That's just me though. I don't know Harry and Meghan or what they think or feel. Its just how they come across to me.

 

[tommy100]

I don’t believe they can’t afford the upkeep. More likely, now they are starting a family and have Frogmore to oversee they probably won’t have all that much time to visit. Also I wonder if they feel it is no longer auitabke for their needs now they have a baby due and now its been splashed all over the papers- I suspect part of the attraction to rent somehwere rather than buy was it was more likely they could keep a rented place “secret” thus a proper hideaway rather like William and Kates house on Anglesey. Now that is over with it being public where it is combined with the baby due and Frogmore to enjoy why keep paying rent for it.

 

[Fem]

Y'know, that thought you bring up, Fem, never occurred to me. For some reason or the other, I just don't picture either Harry or Meghan as being the type of people that would want a huge, palatial home or something overly grand. To me, they seem the type of people that could be happy at Frogmore Cottage as a lifetime leaser feeling its big enough and cozy enough to raise a family in.

That's just me though. I don't know Harry and Meghan or what they think or feel. Its just how they come across to me.

You do bring up a good point and I have to say I feel the same way. I can't imagine Harry and Meghan going for something as big and grand as Bagshot Park (nothing wrong with choosing that, though, it is a gorgeous property) and their choice of Frogmore Cottage do seem to fit their personality and easy going mentality.

What I wanted to say is that the "huge country mansion, small London apartment" is not the only way to go. I know it's the standard set by HM's children, but things can change. And technically things already changed.

Harry and Meghan can have Frogmore Cottage and a bigger apartment at KP (let's say 4-5 bedrooms) and I think, looking at Bagshot Park, Royal Lodge and Gatcombe Park, that would be comparable to the huge mansion and really small London place.

 

[muriel]

What I wanted to say is that the "huge country mansion, small London apartment" is not the only way to go. I know it's the standard set by HM's children, but things can change. And technically things already changed.

Harry and Meghan can have Frogmore Cottage and a bigger apartment at KP (let's say 4-5 bedrooms) and I think, looking at Bagshot Park, Royal Lodge and Gatcombe Park, that would be comparable to the huge mansion and really small London place.

You are right, it may well be that, in time, they end up with a larger apartment at KP than they currently have, in addition to FC.

 

[Terri Terri]

You do bring up a good point and I have to say I feel the same way. I can't imagine Harry and Meghan going for something as big and grand as Bagshot Park (nothing wrong with choosing that, though, it is a gorgeous property) and their choice of Frogmore Cottage do seem to fit their personality and easy going mentality.

What I wanted to say is that the "huge country mansion, small London apartment" is not the only way to go. I know it's the standard set by HM's children, but things can change. And technically things already changed.

Harry and Meghan can have Frogmore Cottage and a bigger apartment at KP (let's say 4-5 bedrooms) and I think, looking at Bagshot Park, Royal Lodge and Gatcombe Park, that would be comparable to the huge mansion and really small London place.

Brilliant post! And this may very well happen in reality!

 

[Nice Nofret]

without a tent over the house you can forget a wintertime renovation to be done on schedule, it is too cold and wet in English weather

 

[Countessmeout]

Yeps. It occurred to me later after I'd posted why I probably didn't see any mention of the Crown Estate paying into the renovations that Andrew did for Royal Lodge. My thought is that Royal Lodge was already up to code and passed muster as a residence as the Queen Mum lived there until her death in 2002. Andrew took Royal Lodge over in 2004, I believe.

To be honest, I'd much rather see Harry and Meghan living within Windsor Home Park where the security is probably the best and keeping this historic cottage alive and well than buying a property of their own somewhere else. To me, it just adds to the personality of the monarchy and its people.

Correct Andrew didn't get help from the crown estate. But that was part of his lease agreement.

Edward and Sophie pay an annual fee for their lease. It's actually quite minimal, less then Bea and Eugenie paid for their attic apartment. But because they rent out some out of the outer buildings which pays majority of their lease.

Andrew doesn't pay an annual fee. It was agreed that he would pay the full renovations himself, and in return he doesn't pay a lease payment. He originally was meant to pay 1 million poiunds one time but that was waived as his renovations were higher then required. If he chooses to break the lease before 25 years he gets a portion of the money he put into the house back.

As for needing a country home.......I would think bagshot, royal lodge and now Frogmore are considered their country home. It's not like they are city pads. It's their place to escape into the quiet away from the city.

Harry and Meghan giving up the Cotswolds isn't giving up a country home. It's simply not having Two country homes. They leased the home when their only place was tiny two bedroom Knott with little privacy. The Cotswolds offered a get away. Now they will have Frogmore. If they want a more remote getaway, they have the Royal estates like balmoral to visit.

 

[MARG]

It would have been a little cramped for an informal dinner with a couple of couples let alone having your MIL for a week.

 

[Lilyflo]

@Countessmeout
Brian Hoey wrote that Nottingham Cottage has 4 double bedrooms so it's not tiny (except by Royal standards of course)

 

[Lady Reem]

Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
For all we know, Harry and Meghan may opt out of having household "help" in the weeks following the birth of their first child. I'm sure that eventually, they'll have some staff at Frogmore Cottage but Meghan does seem like the domestic "hands on" kind of person that loves to cook and most likely does her own dishes and cleaning.

Doria may be a godsend in the weeks following the birth but I don't expect Doria to give up her life for her grandchild. Nor do I think Harry and Meghan would expect her to. Most often for grandmothers being around after a birth of a grandchild, it is mostly to include the grandmother in welcoming the baby home and for moral support for a first time mother and not for what a grandmother can do domestically.

Besides a nanny/granny space at best, frogmore cottage neither has the capacity nor is large enough a home (in comparison to the ‘official residential homes’ allocated to other senior working royals by the queen) to house live-in-staff with their own quarters. Unless Harry & Meghan wish to forfeit all forms of privacy. I think the queen intended for things to be this way. There’s a reason other senior working royals that are based in Windsor with sprawling country homes that can home regular staff, office space/office staff still have homes based in London. Commuting to London from Windsor on an almost daily basis is not as viable as some make it sound. There’s the travelling security detail/logistics, distance & daily peak hours traffic to consider etc. I’m sure H&M will cope toiling on behalf of the queen/crown and rushing back home to their child(ren) and manage their own cleaning, ironing clothes, preparing family meals etc

Not sure if the other thread is appropriate so brought this over.

 

[ACO]

The home is not tiny by any stretch despite the name. Yes in comparison to some of the more grand estates it is small but in the grand scheme it is a sizable home with plenty space for him and their children to grow.

 

[tommy100]

The Windsor estate already houses many staff - Frogmore cottage itself was staff a accommodation before it was designated for H&M. There will be plenty of housekeeping staff who can get there easily to clean etc. That is an advantage to choosing Frogmore Cottage over a country house of its own. They can probably afford to keep one room/suite for a nanny and the rest as family/guest rooms without having lots of staff bedrooms etc.

 

[Lady Reem]

Meghan is not going to be cleaning Frogmore Cottage. Cooking some meals, yes more than likely.

I wouldn’t be so sure that it is not expected she and Harry clean the whole cottage themselves. Not that I’m suggesting there is anything really wrong with that, just that the living arrangements seems unfair in contrast to other senior ‘working’ royals.

Also the Frogmore estate is separate to the Windsor estate and serves mainly as a royal burial ground nowadays. I know I’m alone in my opinions on here but a remote cemetery is not the sort of happy place I would have thought to allocate a young newlywed royal couple about to start a family. Visiting yes, not staying put raising a young family. Plenty others share my views elsewhere as well.

https://metro.co.uk/2018/07/24/insi...aide-cottage-late-wedding-gift-queen-7751944/

Here’s a decent cottage, not overly grand for those concerned about the royal couple’s ‘taste’.... And certainly not ugly or blighted by rumours of being haunted. But eh I suppose it was not to be or ever intended in the first place.

 

[Rena M.]

Close to Frogmore Cottage there is a smaller house. Perhaps they would be able to use it for staff and / or small office space.

 

[jacqui24]

I wouldn’t be so sure that it is not expected she and Harry clean the whole cottage themselves. Not that I’m suggesting there is anything really wrong with that, just that the living arrangements seems unfair in contrast to other senior ‘working’ royals.

Also the Frogmore estate is separate to the Windsor estate and serves mainly as a royal burial ground nowadays. I know I’m alone in my opinions on here but a remote cemetery is not the sort of happy place I would have thought to allocate a young newlywed royal couple about to start a family. Visiting yes, not staying put raising a young family. Plenty others share my views elsewhere as well.

https://metro.co.uk/2018/07/24/insi...aide-cottage-late-wedding-gift-queen-7751944/

Here’s a decent cottage, not overly grand for those concerned about the royal couple’s ‘taste’.... And certainly not ugly or blighted by rumours of being haunted. But eh I suppose it was not to be or ever intended in the first place.

I don’t agree on the burial ground issue. It’s not even that close. But I do agree that had they want a larger home, it’s certainly feasible and could be arranged one way or another. Which goes against the “high maintanance” narrative some tabloids try to push.

 

[Countessmeout]

@Countessmeout
Brian Hoey wrote that Nottingham Cottage has 4 double bedrooms so it's not tiny (except by Royal standards of course)

I have never read any where it has four bedrooms. On the contrary its usually described by royal reporters as 2 bedroom and one bathroom with 2 reception rooms. One royal reporter said 3 bedrooms, but considering they will need a live in nanny, that is still tiny. Its said to be about 1300 square feet.

 

[Lilyflo]

I have never read any where it has four bedrooms. On the contrary its usually described by royal reporters as 2 bedroom and one bathroom with 2 reception rooms. One royal reporter said 3 bedrooms, but considering they will need a live in nanny, that is still tiny. Its said to be about 1300 square feet.

I don't know how accurate this is but Brian Hoey wrote it in 2014 in 'Working For The Royals'
"Meanwhile, Prince Harry has moved into their old property Nottingham Cottage, in the grounds of Kensington Palace, which is nothing like the bachelor pad one might have expected him to choose, being a traditional and highly desirable four double-bedroomed residence, which local estate agents have said could be rented out on the open market for £20,000 per week."

 

[Countessmeout]

I don't know how accurate this is but Brian Hoey wrote it in 2014 in 'Working For The Royals'
"Meanwhile, Prince Harry has moved into their old property Nottingham Cottage, in the grounds of Kensington Palace, which is nothing like the bachelor pad one might have expected him to choose, being a traditional and highly desirable four double-bedroomed residence, which local estate agents have said could be rented out on the open market for £20,000 per week."

Where every other report varies from 2-3 bedrooms like:

https://books.google.ca/books?id=TcXWrhvBc8YC&pg=PT456&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...nsington-home-meghan-harry-will-live-married/

https://www.realtor.com/news/trends...ngham-cottage-dump/?cid=soc_shares_article_tw

1300 square feet, no matter how divided, is small. Especially when you consider a live in nanny. It wouldn't be comfortable for anyone for long, with the couple, a newborn and a nanny living in such close courters, not to mention if family like Doria comes to visit.

 

[Lady Reem]

Close to Frogmore Cottage there is a smaller house. Perhaps they would be able to use it for staff and / or small office space.

I won’t touch upon the chimney aspect but there have been different aerial shots posted before and a different one was even featured in a magazine. There was also another image posted on here a while ago which some claimed to be a clear front view of the building but to me bore no likeness in structure to what I’ve seen so far of frogmore cottage that is featured almost everywhere. I’ve seen nothing to suggest that this particular aerial view is an accurate one of frogmore cottage either. I’m afraid we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this.

 

[Somebody]

I won’t touch upon the chimney aspect but there’s been different aerial shots posted before and a different one was even featured in a magazine. There was also another image posted on here a while ago which some claimed to be a clear front view of the building but to me bore no likeness in structure to what I’ve seen so far of frogmore cottage that is featured almost everywhere. I’ve seen nothing to suggest that this particular aerial view is an accurate one of frogmore cottage either. I’m afraid we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this.

Rena is not claiming that the circled house is Frogmore Cottage. This is a smaller structure close to Frogmore Cottagd. Frogmore Cottage itself can be seen in the bottom part.

 

[Lady Reem]

Rena is not claiming that the circled house is Frogmore Cottage. This is a smaller structure close to Frogmore Cottagd. Frogmore Cottage itself can be seen in the bottom part.

Apologies, I should have been more specific and made it clear I was referring to the large pile which is not that far off from the circled image/smaller structure.

 

[Lilyflo]

@Countessmeout

I don't know where Brian Hoey got his notion of 4 bedrooms. It sounds like he's wrong if nobody else agrees with him. He also wrote it a few years earlier in another book where he says in addition to the 4 bedrooms it has 3 bathrooms. Perhaps he was misinformed.

 

[muriel]

I don't know how accurate this is but Brian Hoey wrote it in 2014 in 'Working For The Royals'
"Meanwhile, Prince Harry has moved into their old property Nottingham Cottage, in the grounds of Kensington Palace, which is nothing like the bachelor pad one might have expected him to choose, being a traditional and highly desirable four double-bedroomed residence, which local estate agents have said could be rented out on the open market for £20,000 per week."

Did you / Brian mean £2,000 a week? I don't live far from KP, and I can assure you that there are not many £20,000 / week cottages around.

 

[Lilyflo]

Did you / Brian mean £2,000 a week? I don't live far from KP, and I can assure you that there are not many £20,000 / week cottages around.

He definitely wrote £20,000 per week & in an earlier book it was £10,000 per week. He said estate agents had valued it & the high price was to do with the position within KP & the royal provenance.

 

[muriel]

He definitely wrote £20,000 per week & in an earlier book it was £10,000 per week. He said estate agents had valued it & the high price was to do with the position within KP & the royal provenance.

Now that is credible! ?