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  #1361  
Old 10-27-2018, 07:15 PM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
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Originally Posted by Nico View Post
She's catholic and Prince Michael had to renounce his rights in the order of succession to marry her. Seems difficult in that case to award her an order made to aknowledge the services to the Crown and the Dynasty.
He didn't have to 'renounce' anything. It was automatic and he has it back now anyway.

The award is for personal service to the monarch ... and not dependent on anything other than the Queen's view that the person has provided such service.

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Originally Posted by Nico View Post
There is no confusion at all. We can agree that the Queen values enormously the orders inside her own family. I do think the RFO is extra special because it's only awarded to women, and yes women who contributed to the good run of the "Firm". It would have made no sense to bestow an order to someone who is not , at least officially, part of the full time "female force" of the BRF.
The RVO is the sherry on the cake ...
The RFO was created to be given to women so there is nothing special about it being given to women only.

Many women were given them almost immediately on becoming a member of the family but by the mid-80s she had changed her mind clearly.

Diana had the RFO within a year of marriage but Sarah never received it so why they change between 1982 and 1986?

The only reason that makes sense is that by 1986 she knew that Charles and Diana's marriage was over (which it was and many people knew that ... the first rumours I heard about it being a disaster and basically over was in 1981) so she made new members of the family wait a lot longer.

We don't know if she has given it to any of her granddaughters - and may never know that as they probably will never appear at an event where they would wear it but it would by highly unusual to give it to a granddaughter in law and not to her own granddaughters but then again she may very well have decided not to give it to her granddaughters.

George V gave her his RFO basically at birth and George VI gave Alexandra his virtually at her birth. We have no idea if Elizabeth II followed suit.
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  #1362  
Old 10-27-2018, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla View Post
Were any Royal Family Orders made for the reign of King Edward VIII?
No, he never got a chance to commission his family order.
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  #1363  
Old 10-27-2018, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
He didn't have to 'renounce' anything. It was automatic and he has it back now anyway.

The award is for personal service to the monarch ... and not dependent on anything other than the Queen's view that the person has provided such service.
No one knows why a lady gets or dosn't get the RFO but, as a previous poster pointed out, Princesss Michael is a Catholic so perhaps that is why the Queen has chosen to exclude her. To be honest, I have always suspected this was the reason she didn't receive it as the British monarchy has always been vehemently anti-catholic and although some criteria has changed with regards to who they can marry I suspect that the same prejudices still and will exist for a long time to come.
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  #1364  
Old 10-28-2018, 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by sophie25 View Post
No one knows why a lady gets or dosn't get the RFO but, as a previous poster pointed out, Princesss Michael is a Catholic so perhaps that is why the Queen has chosen to exclude her. To be honest, I have always suspected this was the reason she didn't receive it as the British monarchy has always been vehemently anti-catholic and although some criteria has changed with regards to who they can marry I suspect that the same prejudices still and will exist for a long time to come.
The Queen awarded Cardinal Hume the Order of Merit, she invited his successor as Archbishop of Westminster, Cardinal O’Connor to stay with her at Sandringham and to preach at Sandringham (Church of England) Parish Church. That suggests to me that there is no anti-Catholicism in the decision. If the Queen could honour both these representatives of the Catholic faith I doubt she would have difficulty giving Princess Michael the RFO based on her religion.
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  #1365  
Old 10-28-2018, 01:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sophie25 View Post
No one knows why a lady gets or dosn't get the RFO but, as a previous poster pointed out, Princesss Michael is a Catholic so perhaps that is why the Queen has chosen to exclude her. To be honest, I have always suspected this was the reason she didn't receive it as the British monarchy has always been vehemently anti-catholic and although some criteria has changed with regards to who they can marry I suspect that the same prejudices still and will exist for a long time to come.
The British monarchy is NOT vehemently anti-Catholic at all. It hasn't been for centuries. It was in the days when the Roman Catholic church kept telling their followers that they would go to heaven if they killed the English/British monarch. Since they stopped doing that there hasn't been any real issue at all.

The most senior non-royal peer in the land is a Roman Catholic and is the person who plans every major royal event including the two recent royal weddings, along with the State Openings of Parliaments, funerals, coronations etc.

The monarch MUST be a member of the Church of England for very obvious reasons.

I doubt if anyone would accept a member of the Church of England as the Pope so why expect that the Supreme Governor of the Church of England shouldn't belong to the CoE.
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  #1366  
Old 10-28-2018, 08:59 AM
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It has only been in the last few years that a member of the family has been allowed to marry a catholic without losing their place in the line of succession, it's never just been a case of the Monarch being a protestant.
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  #1367  
Old 10-28-2018, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by sophie25 View Post
It has only been in the last few years that a member of the family has been allowed to marry a catholic without losing their place in the line of succession, it's never just been a case of the Monarch being a protestant.
That was to make sure that those born in such a marriage wouodn't grow up cstholics (in Luxembourg for this reason the religion of their royal family changed from protestant to catholic and within the BRF there are also several exampkes of both growing up Catholic and becoming a Catholic later in life and mostly that has something to do with the married-in member of the BRF.
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  #1368  
Old 10-28-2018, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
The monarch MUST be a member of the Church of England for very obvious reasons.

I doubt if anyone would accept a member of the Church of England as the Pope so why expect that the Supreme Governor of the Church of England shouldn't belong to the CoE.
Quote:
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That was to make sure that those born in such a marriage wouodn't grow up cstholics (in Luxembourg for this reason the religion of their royal family changed from protestant to catholic and within the BRF there are also several exampkes of both growing up Catholic and becoming a Catholic later in life and mostly that has something to do with the married-in member of the BRF.
If the reason was merely to ensure that the monarch would be a Protestant, then Orthodox Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and atheists would be treated in the same manner as Catholics (but at least in legislation, they are not).
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  #1369  
Old 10-28-2018, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
If the reason was merely to ensure that the monarch would be a Protestant, then Orthodox Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and atheists would be treated in the same manner as Catholics (but at least in legislation, they are not).
I agree but when that law was crafted the only other relevant denomination (not even a different religion) was Catholicism. Had Hinduism been the issue at that time, marriage to a Hindu would surely have been forbidden.

So, yes, nowadays if a similar law would have been crafted, it would have made sense to require the partner/anyone in the line of succession to be Anglican (as in a member of one of the churches within the Anglican community) instead of mentioning what they cannot be.
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  #1370  
Old 10-28-2018, 11:38 AM
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That was to make sure that those born in such a marriage wouodn't grow up cstholics (in Luxembourg for this reason the religion of their royal family changed from protestant to catholic and within the BRF there are also several exampkes of both growing up Catholic and becoming a Catholic later in life and mostly that has something to do with the married-in member of the BRF.

A difference however is that the british Monarch is Defernder of the Faith the Head of the anglican Chruch which is not the Case in Luxembourg.
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  #1371  
Old 10-28-2018, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
I agree but when that law was crafted the only other relevant denomination (not even a different religion) was Catholicism. Had Hinduism been the issue at that time, marriage to a Hindu would surely have been forbidden.

So, yes, nowadays if a similar law would have been crafted, it would have made sense to require the partner/anyone in the line of succession to be Anglican (as in a member of one of the churches within the Anglican community) instead of mentioning what they cannot be.
I was referring to the other remaining differences in the laws regarding Catholics compared to the laws regarding Hindus, Orthodox Christians, and so forth, as the prohibition on marriage to Catholics was repealed by the Succession to the Crown Act.
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  #1372  
Old 10-28-2018, 12:14 PM
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Please return to the topic of the Royal Family Order. Any further off-topic post will be deleted.
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  #1373  
Old 10-28-2018, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
No, he never got a chance to commission his family order.
Would Edward VIII have able to commission his Royal Family Order only after his coronation?
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  #1374  
Old 10-28-2018, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla View Post
Would Edward VIII have able to commission his Royal Family Order only after his coronation?
I think female members of the royal family would’ve been awarded the Order just before the Coronation. It would’ve been worn at the Coronation.
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  #1375  
Old 10-28-2018, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla View Post
Would Edward VIII have able to commission his Royal Family Order only after his coronation?
It was probably in progress, and they just changed the portrait ...
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  #1376  
Old 10-28-2018, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Nico View Post
It was probably in progress, and they just changed the portrait ...
That just probably what happened too.
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  #1377  
Old 10-28-2018, 07:54 PM
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Can you imagine what the press would do if the the queen decides to give Meghan an RFO and she hasn't been royal for six months? As many said there is no set requirement to receive one but the press will cook up Game of Thrones scenarios to get the clicks.
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  #1378  
Old 10-28-2018, 08:01 PM
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I think that it will be years before that happens. For Meghan to receive an RFO now would be totally out of character for the Queen and how she operates.
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  #1379  
Old 10-28-2018, 08:06 PM
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Can we please stop arguing about Meghan getting an RFO? It is way too early, and I can't deal with the same arguments back and forth without anything on substance.
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  #1380  
Old 10-28-2018, 08:20 PM
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To me the only reason why the Queen might give Meghan the RFO in less time than Kate was if she knew she wasn't going to live that long. In that case I can see the Queen giving it to Meghan earlier than Kate simply so that she has it.

If the Queen was told by the doctor's for instance, that she had six months to live, I can see her ensuring that all her female descendants and Meghan have her RFO.

Otherwise I would expect Meghan to also have to wait for another six or so years.
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