The Royal Family Order (RFO) and other Royal Orders and Decorations 1: Ending 2022

[Countessmeout]

I honestly have no issue with Harry having an order and not his brother. I don't think they should give awards simply based on precedence. William doesn't deserve it more then his brother as he is closer to the throne. I like how it was handled by the Spaniards, given to people actively involved in the tour (and not simply at the banquet). William will be king one day and he will have plenty of foreign orders when the day comes, even as POW.

What I do have an issue with is Camilla. I don't get why Camilla was over looked. Her and Charles were involved in the visit, hosted the couple. It seems like a rude over sight that she wasn't given an order.

As for Kate I don't see how it is about ivory. Her husband and father in law who are the most vocal about ivory, wear their family orders. They have said that they don't have an issue with old ivory, not calling to destroy historical pieces. There is likely an old family order not being used she could be given.

 

[TLLK]

As for Kate I don't see how it is about ivory. Her husband and father in law who are the most vocal about ivory, wear their family orders. They have said that they don't have an issue with old ivory, not calling to destroy historical pieces. There is likely an old family order not being used she could be given.

AFAIK the male members of the BRF do not wear the Royal Family Order. It is my understanding that it is reserved for the female members only.

The Royal Family Order of Queen Elizabeth II is an honour bestowed on female members of the British Royal Family by Queen Elizabeth II. The order is worn on formal occasions.[1] from Wikipedia

 

[Osipi]

I think too that people are forgetting that on occasions where Kate would have worn her RFO and didn't (for whatever reason), Kate was given the loan of the Queen's very personal wedding bracelet designed for her by Philip.

Its an alternate and very special way of showing appreciation for Kate being in the family.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

In my book it has to do with reciprocity: the Queen never hands out an Order to female spouses of heads-of state (with which she has no any problem if the spouse was a male, see Bernhard, see Félix, see Henrik, see Claus).

See it level to level:

The Queen has the collar and the grand-cordon of La Insigne Orden del Toisón de Oro
The King has the collar and grand-cordon of the Most Noble Order of the Garter

Queen Letizia has not been bestowed an Order by the Queen (as is her practice)
The Duke of Edinburgh already has the collar and the grand-cross of the Real y Distinguida Orden Española de Carlos III

The Prince of Wales already has the grand-cross of the Real y Distinguida Orden Española de Carlos III
The Duchess of Cornwall has not been bestowed an Order by the King (being reciprocal to the British practice of not granting Orders to female spouses)

The Duke of Cambridge will become part of reciprocality when he is the Heir. His turn will come.
The Duchess of Cambridge will become part of reciprocality when she is the spouse of the Heir. Her turn will come.

With this the reciprocality is honoured. Then we come a step lower. There were no "Spanish equivalents" to be reciprocated so the King was more free:

Prince Henry of Wales was bestowed the Grand Cross in the Real Orden de Isabel la Católica
The Duke of York as bestowed the Grand Cross in the Real Orden de Isabel la Católica
The Princess Royal as bestowed the Grand Cross in the Real Orden de Isabel la Católica

As these are State Orders, King Felipe is not entirely free to hand them without consultation of the Spanish Government. It is possible that he himself was willing to be "easy" and hand William and Catherine one, but that the mandarins of the Casa Real and of the Bureau de Protocol of the State were firm. This was in the framework of a State Visit, where every dot and every comma has been discussed.

Queen Beatrix, for an example, is not so nit-picking, she simply then sailed around the State Orders and created the Princess of Wales (Diana) a Dame Grand-Cross in the Order of the House of Orange. We saw the same when King Willem-Alexander gave the highest civil decoration, usually only for heads-of-state) to the Crown Prince and -Princess of Denmark without known reason. Possibly because of his personal esteem for the couple. The strictness of the policy seems to differ from state tot state.

For so far my theory.

 

[TLLK]

How nice! Why doesn't William have foreign orders? Is there a limit on how many foreign orders Harry can get?

Actually he does have one from the nation of Tuvalu which the Cambridges visited during their Jubilee Commonwealth tour. William and Kate both received the Tuvalu Order of Merit in 2016.

The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge are set to receive the highest order from the island nation of Tuvalu.
The Order of Merit of Tuvalu is a newly created award independent of the awards that Britain presents twice a year. The Order of Merit was created last year and is awarded by The Queen on the advice of her Tuvaluan government ministers.
Prince William and Catherine were awarded the honour last October on Tuvalu’s National Day, but it wasn’t widely reported at the time.
Dr Iftikhar Ayaz, Tuvalu’s Honorary Consul in London, told the Express that the Cambridges had received the Order of Merit because of their successful tour of the country in 2012.
“Whenever they have been reminded about it, they have expressed great affection and love for the country,” Dr Ayaz said.
As part of the year-long celebrations for Queen Elizabeth’s Diamond Jubilee in 2012, the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge toured South East Asia: Singapore, Malaysia, the Solomon Islands and Tuvalu.

 

[TLLK]

Why wouldn't Harry participate in outgoing State visits?

Typically only Heads of State and their consorts participate in outgoing state visits and for the UK that is QEII and not Prince Harry. ? In the future it will be his father/step-mother and later his brother/sister-in-law when their respective reigns begin. Sometimes do you see other royals accompanying their heads of state on state visits though.

Harry participating in an incoming state visit like he did when the King and Queen of Spain visited is something that we can expect to see in the future.

 

[Dman]

The Cambridge’s received their Tuvalu Order of Merit on October 30th-
https://www.royal.uk/court-circular?page=2

It just mentions William’s investiture, but I’m sure he accepted Catherine’s order on her behalf.

 

[Osipi]

After reading the link, I seriously doubt that William accepted an order for Kate. If he had, it would have been mentioned in the CC or even, if Kate was actually also to be invested, she would have been there. Something that important on a state level isn't something that is given lightly or by proxy.

I believe it was only William that was invested with the honor at the audience.

To add to the confusion, after looking for more information, this article alludes to the fact that Kate had received her Order of Merit last March.

http://www.enstarz.com/articles/192...mbridges-new-honor-is-not-an-honor-at-all.htm

Someone able to clear this up?

 

[Somebody]

On March 31, it was announced that both William and Catherine were awarded the Order of Merit of Tuvalu (that only exists since October last year) because of their visit to Tuvalu in 2012 - see for example Royal Central.

So, I don't really understand why only William was at the investment...

 

[cepe]

After reading the link, I seriously doubt that William accepted an order for Kate. If he had, it would have been mentioned in the CC or even, if Kate was actually also to be invested, she would have been there. Something that important on a state level isn't something that is given lightly or by proxy.

I believe it was only William that was invested with the honor at the audience.

To add to the confusion, after looking for more information, this article alludes to the fact that Kate had received her Order of Merit last March.

Kate Middleton Received Tuvalu Order Of Merit From Queen Elizabeth: Duchess Of Cambridge's New Honor Is Not An Honor At All : Trending News : Enstarz

Someone able to clear this up?

The queen approved the awarding of the Order last year to both of them ( its mentioned online on the royal website.).

individuals are awarded Honours - and at that stage it is theirs. Then they are invested ( formally receiving the honour). William was invested - formally received.

It does not mean that Catherine has not received it - she has. Just not been invested.

Hope this helps

 

[Dman]

The queen approved the awarding of the Order last year to both of them ( its mentioned online on the royal website.).

individuals are awarded Honours - and at that stage it is theirs. Then they are invested ( formally receiving the honour). William was invested - formally received.

It does not mean that Catherine has not received it - she has. Just not been invested.

Hope this helps

Oh I see. So she’ll be formally invested too? They both have to Orders though.

 

[Somebody]

I guess, she cannot wear it until invested?! So, maybe the queen wants to make sure that she doesn't end up wearing the Tuvalu order for all formal engagements where orders are expected as her highest (and only) order - like Ari wearing his Dutch order in Sweden because his in-laws never granted him one while the Dutch queen did.

 

[Dman]

I think William may have received Catherine’s while he was formally invested. Why receive the investment separately?

 

[wbenson]

I doubt she'll ever wear it outside of Tuvalu-specific functions. I believe it comes in the form of a medal, and most of the royal ladies almost never wear medals on civilian clothes (I think the Duchess of Gloucester wears her miniature medals at evening events, but it's rare on the others). Catherine almost certainly has the Diamond Jubilee medal, but I don't think it's ever been seen on her, and it might not ever be, unless she one day starts wearing the uniforms of whatever honorary military positions she takes on.

The medals also have what I think must be a mistake on them. The front says "Elizabeth II Dei Gratia Regina Fid Def," but the Queen is not "Fid Def" (defender of the faith) in Tuvalu.

 

[Osipi]

Thanks all for the explanations. I tend to agree that these orders would not be worn unless there's a state function that involves Tuvalu itself and then as women do not normally wear medals, we'll probably never see it on Kate.

Its nice though that they were both honored for spending their time in Tuvalu. Its the appreciation that matters and not the appearance of wearing the order itself and its a nice memento of the trip they made to Tuvalu.

 

[sophie25]

I'm sure spending time on a paradise island was no hardship for them. They should probably be giving the hosts a medal, LOL!

 

[Dman]

The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge Tuvalu Order of Merit-
Duchess of Cambridge gets her first gong... from Tuvalu | Daily Mail Online

 

[wbenson]

Interesting. It must come in multiple grades, because the one I saw before was just a simple round medal with the Queen's effigy on it. (It would be nice if they released some information about how it was structured.)

 

[Madame Verseau]

The DM article was virtually dismissive of the order and the country that's awarding it. The comments were none too kind to the recipient. But it still strikes me that Kate does not have the RFO after six years with the Firm and producing soon to be three successors to the throne, one a future king. I heard the ivory defense and that Kate may already have it and not wearing it, but I think the media would have announced it. Notice the DM stated the Tuvalu order is her first order. Even though Kate would have something to show at the next Diplomatic Reception, I still think the group picture will be embarrassing. By this time Kate should have the RFO and other orders.

 

[Skippyboo]

Not to restart this debate. A RFO is never announced as being given. The press only knows when it’s worn. Thus the ivory dilemma comes in because of William’s position on ivory. Kate could have the order and is not wearing it with the blessing from the Queen because of the ivory or she could just not have it. We don’t know.

 

[Osipi]

As it is a medal, I seriously doubt we'd see Kate wearing the Tuvalu order at the Diplomatic reception. One thing about the RFO is that it is never announced to the public when someone receives it. Its a within the family sort of thing so the Daily Mail has no more clue about whether Kate has the RFO than we do. Its still a mystery and to be honest, I don't see them making any kind of announcement about if Kate has it or she doesn't and any reasons why she'd not be wearing it.

Time will tell. Maybe.

 

[wbenson]

The picture in the DM article actually looks like it could be a neck order, in which case she'd probably wear it on a bow, like the royal family orders are worn. (But I still doubt we'll ever see it on her, at least until the next time she visits Tuvalu, regardless of her RFO situation.)

I think what I saw before was a separate medal affiliated with the order, similar to the British Empire and Royal Victorian medals.

 

[Dman]

With The Queen knighting Prince Philip with the Kight Grand Cross of the Royal Victorian Order, he now has four UK Order of Chivalry Breast stars. Last member of the family to have four breast stars was the late Earl Mountbatten-

https://twitter.com/x/status/932652922034409477

 

[Pranter]

When Phillips passes do his order pass to anyone? Not for them to wear but as a keepsake?


LaRae

 

[Curryong]

Normally Royal Orders are 'retired' when the recipient passes but if Philip predeceases the Queen I wouldn't be surprised if she keeps his Stars etc with her for a while, as a keepsake.

 

[Pranter]

Thanks Curryong!


LaRae

 

[Pranter]

Well I wasn't sure if they buried them with the person but I now remember reading something here about them being recycled.


Thanks!

LaRae

 

[Dman]

Well I wasn't sure if they buried them with the person but I now remember reading something here about them being recycled.


Thanks!

LaRae

They are recycled for future use. They are very expensive to make. Even the orders collars are recycled from many decades and centuries ago.

 

[Skippyboo]

The expensive ones like the Garter, etc are returned to the palace and then reissued. Something like a MBE would be kept by the person’s family. There was a story in the paper about the Duchess of Westminster and her children visiting the Queen at BP to return the late Duke’s Garter regalia.

 

[Dman]

The expensive ones like the Garter, etc are returned to the palace and then reissued. Something like a MBE would be kept by the person’s family. There was a story in the paper about the Duchess of Westminster and her children visiting the Queen at BP to return the late Duke’s Garter regalia.

Yes, the major knighthood orders are returned upon the recipients death. I think President Reagan’s Order of the Bath was kept after his passing and is displayed at his library in California. Unless it was returned later on.