General News about Frederik, Mary and Family 9: May - December 2011

[UserDane]

Originally Posted by EIIR

I don't see how anyone could call me an 'F&M detractor' given that I very, very rarely comment on them at all because I have very little interest in them. The issue of taking children out of education is something that's very close to my heart for personal reasons.

To give you an idea of the system in the UK, my parents took me out of school 2 days before the end of the school year in June some 14 years ago. They were summoned to my school where the headmistress left them in no uncertain terms how important missing even a couple of days of school is. They never did it again.

This board is generally extremely hostile to even the most lukewarm criticism of Mary in particular, as the reaction to Duke of Marmalade and myself demonstrates perfectly.

I don't quite see how it is any worse to ask whether you would be liked to be called a detractor than I or any other would like to be labelled a fanclub - because we have opposite views?
No, this board is not extremely hostile to criticism of Mary & co.; they and their counterparts in other countries get their fair share of criticism. Fine, I just reserve myself the right to post when I find that a comment is not fair - the way I see things. And I disagreed about Duke's comment about bragging about being normal e.g., hence my comment. I also did not agree with your comments about taking children out of school, your personal experience aside. For all you know, I may carry around traumatic experiences of never being taken on holidays as a child - or never being able to take my own kids on holidays because prices rise so much during school holidays.

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by EIIR

You are clearly choosing to see things that aren't there. I mentioned the UK position as an example of how important removing children from education is even for a very limited amount of time. It had also been mentioned by Danish posters previously that it is frowned upon for parents to take their children out of school for holidays during term time. The DRF evidently are choosing to ignore this.

Absolutely. It is frowned upon.
However, as another poster pointed out it's not always school holidays and the holidays the parents can get, is at the same time. If for no other reason that all other parents wish to have their holiday when the school is off. Alas that isn't possible. So there is a certain tolerance in regards to taking children out - for as short a period as possible.
That's what M&F did. For the frist two weeks they were busy anyway, so Christian and Isabella are only missing school/kindergarten for two weeks.
As for their winter break. All schools in DK have a week's winter holiday around week #10, so it's not unlikely M&F will schedule their winter holiday for that week. We'll see.

Originally Posted by EIIR

With regards to the example they're setting. This issue would have been easily fixed if they had chosen to make their visit to Australia in the Danish summer when their children are already off school. I know Australia is warm and sunny at this time of the year but surely they could have made this visit in July for example or lined it up to coincide with their children's Christmas break from school? Or maybe made the visit shorter? I assume they've already had one summer holiday this year, they'll also probably go skiing in the New Year, why the need for another extended holiday now?

I disagree with you here. Because this was an official visit and a lot of things has to fit together. There is only so much M&F can do to influence the time for an official visit.
It is in my eyes natural that Mary in particular, and probably Frederik as well, would like to visit their Australian relatives. There is no need to deprive Christian and Isabella of that pleasure.
And as far as I could tell there was a good deal of expectation in the Australian press that all their children would come. And I can certainly understand that. M&F's marriage is in so many ways a cultural link and I think I would find it a bit odd if it was the other way around. I.e. M&F lived in Australia and they wouldn't take Christian and Isabella with them when they visited DK.
And royals are hardly normal, eh?

[EIIR]

As soon as anyone says anything even hinting at criticism on this board of Mary and Fred a whole legion of posters immediately rubbish their opinion. I was just accused of being petty and and of sour grapes for suggesting that perhaps it's not the best thing for young children to miss 2 weeks of school. It would appear that for several posters on this board no criticism, no matter how measured or politely stated, is justified.

Also, the idea that Mary and Fred didn't have the lion's share of the say over the timing of this visit is laughable. A Danish business delegation would, I'm sure, have fallen into line with anything the royal couple asked because, let's face it, a Danish business delegation is not going to get much media space in Australia without Mary along.

Oh, and I didn't realise that the only business done in the Austalian winter is the buying and selling of skis. I hadn't realised that Australian winters were so harsh.

[Dierna23]

Originally Posted by EIIR

I don't see how anyone could call me an 'F&M detractor' given that I very, very rarely comment on them at all because I have very little interest in them. The issue of taking children out of education is something that's very close to my heart for personal reasons.

To give you an idea of the system in the UK, my parents took me out of school 2 days before the end of the school year in June some 14 years ago. They were summoned to my school where the headmistress left them in no uncertain terms how important missing even a couple of days of school is. They never did it again.

This board is generally extremely hostile to even the most lukewarm criticism of Mary in particular, as the reaction to Duke of Marmalade and myself demonstrates perfectly.

This might be true, concerning the Danish section here, but wasn't it you who called the posters' criticism regarding the Duchess of Cambridge's FASHION (!) bullying? Double standards much? Sometimes I just don't understand why people here can't act like adults and stay civil towards each-other. It's just a forum to discuss royals most of us don't know personally...

[Muhler]

EIIR put up a valid point: That M&F have the big word in regards to when this visit should take place.
I disagree. I don't think it's M&F who matters. It's the schedule of the Danish and Australian businessmen which is important.
M&F just have to conform as much as they can.

[JessRulz]

Okay - everyone cool it!

We are all adults here, therefore we should be able to act like it. I will take this opportunity to ask, and remind, everyone to act civily towards each other, with the respect that you would show people in face-to-face conversation. Just because you are safely behind a computer screen, does not mean you can insult other members (calling them 'petty', stating they cannot accept criticism, etc etc).

So please, for everyone's sake, act like the adults that we are.

And a further reminder, any questions relating to moderator actions should be made via PM to the moderators - not within thread.

JessRulz
Danish Forum Moderator

[Madame Royale]

I've come late to the discussion and have no interest for it, but I will say this. Missing two weeks of school is most unlikley to make any difference to either Christian or Isabella.

If they were undertaking study at a notably higher level then perhaps, but they are quite young and the standard of work children receive is hardly going to require their continued concentration for hours on end.

[EIIR]

Originally Posted by Dierna23

This might be true, concerning the Danish section here, but wasn't it you who called the posters' criticism regarding the Duchess of Cambridge's FASHION (!) bullying? Double standards much? Sometimes I just don't understand why people here can't act like adults and stay civil towards each-other. It's just a forum to discuss royals most of us don't know personally...

There is a complete and total difference between saying, perhaps taking children out of education for 2 weeks is not the best idea, and stating that a young woman looks like a clown, is trashy and is evidently borderline anorexic. The two things could not be more different. One is done in order to cause hurt and the other is a legitimate comment.

It's incredibly offensive for you to even suggest they're the same.

[Muhler]

As the attentive among us have noticed, M&F are still in Australia and wouldn't you know Billed Bladet has an article about that.

Summary of article in Billed Bladet #49, 2011.
Mary og Frederiks australske paradis - Mary and Frederik's Australian paradise.
Written by our correspondent down under Anna Johannesen.

BB quotes Australian papers.
After the whole family was reunited, they all went to the town of Sorrento, located on Mornington Peninsula not far from Melbourne.
The place is apparantly for the more wealthy.
M&F brought a nanny (most likely two) so Mary had time for some shopping.
She cruised Ocean Beach Road, in Sorrento, where a lot of expensive shops are located.
Mary gazed at shoes in Cinori.
Browsed clothes and assessories in Debs Boutique.
Mary was casual in flat shoes, the hair hanging loose and loose hareem pants.

Tuesday Frederik touched down in Tasmania with two children at 17.20.
Mary arrived onboard a Jetair flight at 17.30 with two more children.
The temperature in Tasmania is apparantly lower than around Melbourne, so Frederik wore a vest and Mary a long sleeved sweather..

----

However there is also a question from Australia in this weeks Q&A. Albeit from a Dane living in Australia.

Hanne Schiøtz was wondering whether it isn't incorrect when some Australian media say "Prince Frederick" and "Princess Mary", because their titles don't change when going abroad, do they?

Jon Bloch Skipper replies that titles indeed do not change. Their correct English titles are: Crown Prince Frederik and Crown Princess Mary. He then goes on to list a number of Australian papers and networks who actually got it right.

[JessRulz]

As previously noted in the visit thread - the Australian media, and the media in general, are what I would call 'lazy' in terms of getting facts/titles/etc related to royalty correct (don't even get me started on the William and Catherine wedding coverage here).

Simply calling them 'Prince/ss' instead of 'Crown Prince/ss' may also have to do with it not being 'our' tradition/custom, ie. the British Royal Family don't have a 'Crown Prince' title - there's the Prince of Wales instead. Most of the general Australian public would not really have an idea as to why there is a 'Crown' infront of the 'Prince/ss', so it gets omitted by the media.

[camelot23ca]

I can see both sides of the school issue. IMO, the overall life experience Christian and Isabella will get from this trip has a lot of value. Seeing a new place, spending time with their mother's family, improving their english... that's all important and they're incredibly fortunate to have such an opportunity. I also think that, unless we're talking about a clearly neglectful or abusive family, school authorities take a back seat to family authority. Mary and Frederik are the children's parents, therefore they get to decide how they're going to handle these sorts of things for their family.

That being said, as a daughter of a teacher, I know first hand that having kids in and out of the classroom like this can be disruptive, not only for the kids who have been travelling, but also for the rest of the class, (especially for small children), and for the teacher. I do think parents have a responsibility to balance their family's needs/wants vs. what's best for the school community their children are now a part of. And Mary and Frederik should be especially conscious of this, IMO, because of who they are...even if he disagrees with the choice they're making I think even the most egalitarian minded school administrator is probably not going to be as direct and upfront with the Crown Prince and Princess as he would be with other parents.

[kimlan]

I think some people have a harsh justify regarding to the children missing school and especially when it comes to the Royal family. Well, just think how much the kindergarten and pre-school kids have daily work in class? In additional, how does people know that either Fred or Mary don’t take extra homework assignment for the children and have them work on it each day before they go out and play. Does people think if they have president and the president family won’t take their children out of school when they go on president’s business trip?

[NGalitzine]

We are talking about children who are in preschool and grade 1 right? Not children who are writing their thesis in organic chemistry or some other higher studies? If they are not working while in Australia, with the help of their parents and nannies, I still don't think it should be too much to get caught up once they return to their home.
I can recall being taken out of school whe I was 13 and 14 to accompany my parents on trips to China & Japan and another one to Brazil because they thought the experience would be just as valuable as what I would learn in a school room and I think they were right.

[American Dane]

Originally Posted by NGalitzine

We are talking about children who are in preschool and grade 1 right? Not children who are writing their thesis in organic chemistry or some other higher studies? If they are not working while in Australia, with the help of their parents and nannies, I still don't think it should be too much to get caught up once they return to their home.
I can recall being taken out of school whe I was 13 and 14 to accompany my parents on trips to China & Japan and another one to Brazil because they thought the experience would be just as valuable as what I would learn in a school room and I think they were right.

I didn't want to get involved in this conversation because it concerns solely C+I, F+M, and school officials but just a point to make:
From personal experience, time away from the school environment (at any age) is good IMO. I'm not saying months at a time but C+I are only away two weeks from pre-school and kindergarten. Hardly major concept-learning being absent from.

My parents took me out of school at least once a year in my younger years for 2-3 weeks at a time and I can assure you the things I learned on those trips were more influential in my life now than the pieces of schoolwork I missed back in New York.

Even in my second year of undergraduate studies I missed 9 days, for a much more valuable event than sitting in classes four days a week taking notes. And there was no problem for me to make up any work or understand anything I missed nor the professor to make time for me. Thus, is more than possible to make up elementary work for two weeks.

Most countries used to have truancy officers and actively punish children for missing school, yet no one wonders why that is no longer the case. Schools have learned that experiences outside the classroom are no less important than the ones in the classroom.

[Tarlita]

How do we know that Prince Christians teacher did not send some papers for him to learn and finish like homework. Perhaps HRH or a nanny would help him learn this. In this country many children living on a road trip situation with there parents do correspondence while travelling. I've met a great many parents with children of all ages who travel around the country doing this.
But I really think they don't do much in the last two weeks of school in the run up to Christmas. As most have done there exams earlier. But I don't think there HRH's would allow there children to miss out on serious curriculum/learning if there were any in the last two weeks. They would make sure that any learning materials would come with them.

[lancchick]

Mary appears to have spotted in Tasmania.

Princess at the beach Tasmania News - The Mercury - The Voice of Tasmania

[MARG]

Originally Posted by American Dane

I didn't want to get involved in this conversation because it concerns solely C+I, F+M, and school officials but just a point to make:
From personal experience, time away from the school environment (at any age) is good IMO. I'm not saying months at a time but C+I are only away two weeks from pre-school and kindergarten. Hardly major concept-learning being absent from.

I didn't want to get involved in this as well but really, all this ranting over a very short absence for two very young children is just plain nuts.

From the tone of some posters one would think the Frederik and Mary are delinquent parents of the worst order instead of loving parents who want their kids to know their immediate family and their mother's homeland.

Why are so many posts filled with anger to the point of vilification? This seems so over the top and makes me wonder what sort of limits and bounds they set themselves and their families. Boarding school for all perhaps? No? Of course not, just harder rules for the DRF than any other parents.

[Muhler]

That's a sweet story. Thanks, lancchick.

25 degress C? And we are going to have a severe storm tonight here in DK. - No, I'm not envious...

I see in the article that it specifically mention the PET officers protecting M&F. They were pretty absent during the official part of the visit, where Australian security took over.
It was also PET who took care of the close security during their last private visit to Tasmania, with the local police providing perimeter security.
That makes me wonder about the rules of security.
When M&F were out in the bush on a remote holiday farm, before they were married, PET trailed along. That was also the case when Frederik and a friend was out in the bush in 2000. There were no Australian police officers around on both occasions. I just find it hard to imagine that the PET officers were unarmed.
Any ideas in that regards?
FET agents sometimes use diplomatic immunity in order to circumnavigate local gun-laws.

Originally Posted by lancchick

Mary appears to have spotted in Tasmania.

Princess at the beach Tasmania News - The Mercury - The Voice of Tasmania

[Frelinghighness]

Originally Posted by American Dane

Most countries used to have truancy officers and actively punish children for missing school, yet no one wonders why that is no longer the case. Schools have learned that experiences outside the classroom or no less important than the ones in the classroom.

We still have a very active truant officer in our son's high school. They try to track down students who cut classes and are in danger of not graduating from high school.
Legally, at least in this state, pre-kindergarten and kindergarten are not required.(though the vast majority do attend) Children are only required to attend first grade through age 16 when they can drop out.

Originally Posted by Muhler

That's a sweet story. Thanks, lancchick.

25 degress C? And we are going to have a severe storm tonight here in DK. - No, I'm not envious...

I see in the article that it specifically mention the PET officers protecting M&F. They were pretty absent during the official part of the visit, where Australian security took over.
It was also PET who took care of the close security during their last private visit to Tasmania, with the local police providing perimeter security.
That makes me wonder about the rules of security.
When M&F were out in the bush on a remote holiday farm, before they were married, PET trailed along. That was also the case when Frederik and a friend was out in the bush in 2000. There were no Australian police officers around on both occasions. I just find it hard to imagine that the PET officers were unarmed.
Any ideas in that regards?
FET agents sometimes use diplomatic immunity in order to circumnavigate local gun-laws.

Funny you mentioned that because when I saw the photos of F&M arriving in Tasmania on their different flights, I was struck by the "look" of the security. I had seen them in NYC when F&M made their visit and they resemble them.

[Terri Terri]

Originally Posted by MARG

I didn't want to get involved in this as well but really, all this ranting over a very short absence for two very young children is just plain nuts.

From the tone of some posters one would think the Frederik and Mary are delinquent parents of the worst order instead of loving parents who want their kids to know their immediate family and their mother's homeland.

Why are so many posts filled with anger to the point of vilification? This seems so over the top and makes me wonder what sort of limits and bounds they set themselves and their families. Boarding school for all perhaps? No? Of course not, just harder rules for the DRF than any other parents.

I agree 100%!!!
You know...sometimes people should just walk away from the computer and take some deep breaths!
CP Frederik and CP Mary are Christian and Isabella's parents...not any of us!..And nothing indicates that CP Frederik and CP Mary are delinquent parents! I trust them to know what's good for their children.
I mean if they had a habit of going to Australia annually...I would understand the argument...but that is not the case. It may be 2 or more years before the CP Family travel back to Australia.
Didn't the Norwegian CP Couple take their much older children out of school for 2 months last year? Yeah...there was this same hullaballoo...and then what? Life has gone on!

Originally Posted by Muhler

That's a sweet story. Thanks, lancchick.

25 degress C? And we are going to have a severe storm tonight here in DK. - No, I'm not envious...

I see in the article that it specifically mention the PET officers protecting M&F. They were pretty absent during the official part of the visit, where Australian security took over.
It was also PET who took care of the close security during their last private visit to Tasmania, with the local police providing perimeter security.
That makes me wonder about the rules of security.
When M&F were out in the bush on a remote holiday farm, before they were married, PET trailed along. That was also the case when Frederik and a friend was out in the bush in 2000. There were no Australian police officers around on both occasions. I just find it hard to imagine that the PET officers were unarmed.
Any ideas in that regards?
FET agents sometimes use diplomatic immunity in order to circumnavigate local gun-laws.

I was curious about the security too! Don't PET follow Isabella and Christian when they are out in public as well? I didn't see them in the video with Jane when she, Christian and Isabella are running!
Granted...it was a very short video...but it looked to me as if there was no PET present.