The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 5: June-July 2021

[_Heather_]

You're correct it's not different from protocol if she meant from birth but why are everyone just assuming that that was what she meant? It seem much more likely that she referred to plans to strip Archie (and Lili) of the titles they, at the moment, automatically are elevated to once Charles succeeds QEII.

We don't know the details of such plans and the thought process behind them and as such we can't categorically deny that Meghan was incorrect that Archie's race had to do with it (nor can we confirm it). Why would she (they) apologise if their claims are true?

You're right, we don't know the details of future plans and therefore can't confirm or deny whether that is the case. However, we do know that currently these children weren't entitled to prince/princess titles from birth and won't be until their grandfather becomes King and it has nothing to do with race. That much we do know with certainty. But, because once again it wasn't clear exactly what she meant, this becomes another example of the word salad and double speak or word play that so often seems to be employed by these two in order to give them room to walk back statements or say that everyone else misunderstood.

 

[Royalist.in.NC]

I just love all this talk about the maternity leave, when Archie was born she was out and about and seemingly working very hard behind closed doors, because according to posters on here she was a worker and not lazy. I had made a comment that I thought she should take things easy because at the end of the day it doesn't matter how rich you are how much help you have a woman has physically had a baby. I was slaughtered on here for criticising Meghan for not being lazy.

I am not sure what the rule is about maternity leave in the USA but it does happen here in the UK. All this talk of doing the right thing.

For most states in the US it is 12 weeks of UNPAID leave. We are behind other developed countries IMHO. Also we do not get anywhere near the vacation time that many Europeans receive. Most folks start at a week and have to work many, many years to get two weeks. With the exception of those of us in education who get the summer “off” (except for this crazy year), I don’t know anyone who gets more than two weeks. My dad was in corporate management and retired having had two weeks vacation.
We Americans can be very “not family friendly” in the corporate world

Twenty weeks of paid leave??? Give me a break - corporations would go broke. And who is on Archewell’s payroll besides H&M.

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

You're right, we don't know the details of future plans and therefore can't confirm or deny whether that is the case. However, we do know that currently these children weren't entitled to prince/princess titles from birth and won't be until their grandfather becomes King and it has nothing to do with race. That much we do know with certainty. But, because once again it wasn't clear exactly what she meant, this becomes another example of the word salad and double speak or word play that so often seems to be employed by these two in order to give them room to walk back statements or say that everyone else misunderstood.

Right, and nothing implies that that was what she meant?

But I do agree that it would've served themselves best to be completely unambiguous in allegations like this.

you have hit the nail on the head because we can never be sure what Meghan means as she has her own spin on everything.

Her own spin? Please do elaborate

 

[Royalist.in.NC]

It wasn’t intentional for either of us.
Mistakes happen.

Thanks, Erin! I appreciate your taking the time to say that!

 

[Durham]

Uh... no?

You're correct it's not different from protocol if she meant from birth but why are everyone just assuming that that was what she meant? It seem much more likely that she referred to plans to strip Archie (and Lili) of the titles they, at the moment, automatically are elevated to once Charles succeeds QEII.

We don't know the details of such plans and the thought process behind them and as such we can't categorically deny that Meghan was incorrect that Archie's race had to do with it (nor can we confirm it). Why would she (they) apologise if their claims are true?

Well it sure sounds like from birth in the interview but to coin a phrase recollections may vary.

The idea that the boy was not/might not be made a prince because of his race is risible.

The claim was patently incorrect which is why an apology would be the honourable thing to do. It caused damage to race relations in Britain for a start.

 

[Royalist.in.NC]

Heavs, thanks so much! You are amazing!

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

Well it sure sounds like from birth in the interview but to coin a phrase recollections may vary.

The idea that the boy was not/might not be made a prince because of his race is risible.

The claim was patently incorrect which is why an apology would be the honourable thing to do. It caused damage to race relations in Britain for a start.

May I ask which part that makes it sound like she means from the birth?

 

[Durham]

May I ask which part that makes it sound like she means from the birth?

The part where she's talking about this topic. Where else would it be?

 

[soapstar]

Cleary everyone has their own opinion about the whole title issue. Continuing to argue about it won’t change minds, so please move on

The discussion about Harry and Meghan threatening legal action against the BBC, has been moved to the “Birth of Lilibet” thread.

 

[Leopoldine]

Folks mean Her Majesty by HM, H&M is Harry and Meghan, and RF is the Royal Family. It took me awhile to figure this out too!

It took me weeks to figure out that ELF was Edward Lane Fox. I'd think to myself, why bring Extremely Low Frequency into this discussion? What did I miss?

 

[Erin9]

The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 5: June 2021-

For most states in the US it is 12 weeks of UNPAID leave. We are behind other developed countries IMHO. Also we do not get anywhere near the vacation time that many Europeans receive. Most folks start at a week and have to work many, many years to get two weeks. With the exception of those of us in education who get the summer “off” (except for this crazy year), I don’t know anyone who gets more than two weeks. My dad was in corporate management and retired having had two weeks vacation.

We Americans can be very “not family friendly” in the corporate world



Twenty weeks of paid leave??? Give me a break - corporations would go broke. And who is on Archewell’s payroll besides H&M.[emoji3]

Exactly. America is not employee friendly in terms of maternity leave or paid vacation time off. Or employee benefits in general.

Some places do give 6 paid weeks of maternity leave, but that’s about as good as it gets. It’s sure not required. And 12 weeks total is usually max. Though where I work- it’s ALL unpaid. So- yeah- up to 20 weeks paid leave made an impression on me. It’s not something any average American would identify with.

2 weeks vacation time is somewhat standard in my experience. Though- as noted- also not required. Anything more is usually dependent on the number of years at the company or your role. Also one of the reasons why the Sussexes rather lengthy Canadian break made an impression on me.

That’s all very nice, don’t get me wrong. But it’s not the world the average American identifies with at all.

 

[Erin9]

Thanks, Erin! I appreciate your taking the time to say that!

Of course. [emoji4]

 

[Curryong]

Didn’t Scobie say ‘UP to twenty weeks parental leave’ as per Archewell employees, (which would include their support and comms staff) not that Harry would necessarily be taking the 20 weeks. In fact we know he isn’t. The Diana statue visit is at the beginning of July, for instance. I expect at least one Spotify podcast as well as filming to begin at least in part on vets taking part in the Invictus Games in the next two or three months, as well as Archewell ventures from the two of them.

When my eldest child was born over 40 years ago here in Australia I worked for a Govt Department and received very generous maternity leave of nine months, most of it paid. And the vast majority of new parents in Scandinavia, and Europe get excellent maternity and paternity leave provisions and pay.

If the US is lagging behind so much in this area then maybe its citizens should contact their State representatives and ask for the same sort of conditions after having a baby that most of the rest of the First World enjoys.

 

[Royalist.in.NC]

From the NY Post: an interesting article written in the US.

https://nypost.com/2021/06/09/just-keep-digging-harry-and-meghan/

 

[ACO]

From the NY Post: an interesting article written in the US.

https://nypost.com/2021/06/09/just-keep-digging-harry-and-meghan/

I mean it is Murdoch's NY Post. That is like being surprised Fox News wrote did a unflattering segment about Joe Biden. Lol. They recently hired an English editor that has oddly fixated on the Sussexes. It is turning into the Daily Mail with the nonstop stories.

 

[Royalist.in.NC]

I mean it is Murdoch's NY Post. That is like being surprised Fox News wrote did a unflattering segment about Joe Biden. Lol. They recently hired an English editor that has oddly fixated on the Sussexes. It is turning into the Daily Mail with the nonstop stories.

I usually just follow The NY Times, not the Post, but thought I would share as some folks here think that all US media are sympathetic to the Sussexes.

 

[Erin9]

The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 5: June 2021-

From the NY Post: an interesting article written in the US.



https://nypost.com/2021/06/09/just-keep-digging-harry-and-meghan/

I cringed at the reminder that Meghan referred to the family as “that family.” Especially in light of recent events.

 

[ACO]

Not all US media like the Sussexes. The right wing media hate them, especially her. Just like not all UK media dislike them.

 

[ladyjolene]

It's not just 'right wing' media. Most US media is giving them the side-eye. Most media here is not 'right wing.' They are only relevant when whining about the BRF.

 

[UglyAmerican]

not that Harry would necessarily be taking the 20 weeks. In fact we know he isn’t. The Diana statue visit is at the beginning of July, for instance.

Has it been confirmed that he's going for that? And even if he was, wouldn't that be him acting as an individual? My understanding was that it was all planned before Archewell or any of Harry's other independent possibly-income-generating projects existed.

 

[Denville]

Has it been confirmed that he's going for that? And even if he was, wouldn't that be him acting as an individual? My understanding was that it was all planned before Archewell or any of Harry's other independent possibly-income-generating projects existed.

its hardly "work" to do something like this. Its honouring his mother.

 

[Denville]

Well it sure sounds like from birth in the interview but to coin a phrase recollections may vary.

The idea that the boy was not/might not be made a prince because of his race is risible.

The claim was patently incorrect which is why an apology would be the honourable thing to do. It caused damage to race relations in Britain for a start.

Does Meghan REALLY think that her son wasn't made a prince (or wont be made a prince in due course) because of his race? If so, really why did she ever marry into the family?

 

[UglyAmerican]

Does Meghan REALLY think that her son wasn't made a prince (or wont be made a prince in due course) because of his race? If so, really why did she ever marry into the family?

I actually do believe that she thinks this. She spent almost no time with the family before marrying in, so may not have had any real opinion of them at that time. Most Americans (and probably most non-upper-class Brits) would have a first impression of the family as being cool and standoffish, just due to cultural differences. Her views on issues like race were formed well before she met Harry, so it doesn't surprise me that she'd perceive that as racially motivated. She became pregnant shortly after getting married, and by her own account she had serious mental health issues during the pregnancy. Also by her own account, it seems like things only got worse after Archie's birth. I can believe that she perceived and processed information in way that was not securely rooted in reality, and therefore sincerely believes quite a few things that aren't actually true.

Harry, on the other hand... this is his family, his father and grandmother, that he believes would deny his son a title for being the wrong color. I find that much more troubling. None of the excuses one can make for Meghan applies to Harry here. I know he's not the one who made the claims about the title, but he doesn't appear to have tried all that hard to correct Meghan's obvious misunderstandings on the subject, either.

 

[Denville]

I actually do believe that she thinks this. She spent almost no time with the family before marrying in, so may not have had any real opinion of them at that time. Most Americans (and probably most non-upper-class Brits) would have a first impression of the family as being cool and standoffish, just due to cultural differences. Her views on issues like race were formed well before she met Harry, so it doesn't surprise me that she'd perceive that as racially motivated. She became pregnant shortly after getting married, and by her own account she had serious mental health issues during the pregnancy. Also by her own account, it seems like things only got worse after Archie's birth. I can believe that she perceived and processed information in way that was not securely rooted in reality, and therefore sincerely believes quite a few things that aren't actually true.

Harry, on the other hand... this is his family, his father and grandmother, that he believes would deny his son a title for being the wrong color. I find that much more troubling. None of the excuses one can make for Meghan applies to Harry here. I know he's not the one who made the claims about the title, but he doesn't appear to have tried all that hard to correct Meghan's obvious misunderstandings on the subject, either.

I do almost feel a bit sorry for her, if she really thinks that.... but I question why she married into the family then. According ot Harry, they all loved her at the beginning and she found them "the family she'd never had".. so - its all very werid and confusing. Were they friendly to her during the engagement and then turned "cool and snooty"?
And surely, if there were racist feelings, they'd surface during the courtship or engagement? Surely someone would have said "DO you really want to marry her? Wont it be embarrassing when you have children"?
Why would they wait till she was married and pregnant to come up with "What if the kid has darker skin? Do you know that he wont be made a prince then and wont have security".
It just seems pretty odd - what was the point of watiing till after they were married to bring up issues about race?
WRT Harry, I know this wont be a popular view but honestly I think he is mesmerised by Meghan. He does seem to have adopted all her views on everything since they got married and that makes him seem very different to the way he used to be.
Perhaps someone in the family made some remark that he repeated to Meghan and she interpreted it as racist against her baby... and Harry now believes it.

 

[RandyDrx]

I do almost feel a bit sorry for her, if she really thinks that.... but I question why she married into the family then. According ot Harry, they all loved her at the beginning and she found them "the family she'd never had".. so - its all very werid and confusing. Were they friendly to her during the engagement and then turned "cool and snooty"?
And surely, if there were racist feelings, they'd surface during the courtship or engagement? Surely someone would have said "DO you really want to marry her? Wont it be embarrassing when you have children"?
Why would they wait till she was married and pregnant to come up with "What if the kid has darker skin? Do you know that he wont be made a prince then and wont have security".
It just seems pretty odd - what was the point of watiing till after they were married to bring up issues about race?
WRT Harry, I know this wont be a popular view but honestly I think he is mesmerised by Meghan. He does seem to have adopted all her views on everything since they got married and that makes him seem very different to the way he used to be.
Perhaps someone in the family made some remark that he repeated to Meghan and she interpreted it as racist against her baby... and Harry now believes it.

Money, fame, clout, connections, a global platform and various opportunities that were unavailable to her before her relationship with Harry, take your pick.

 

[Denville]

Money, fame, clout, connections, a global platform and various opportunities that were unavailable to her before her relationship with Harry, take your pick.

well that's the cynical explanation. But if it were the reason, would she not have swallowed her anger at occasional unkind remarks etc. and put up with it all, to live the comfortable life as H's wife? Unless she thought that she could dip in and out of royal life as she chose? I suppose that is a possibility, that she thought she'd be so popular that she could do that. But again that raises problems. Royal brides marrying in seem to get a rougher ride these days than they used to, and a "sensible" bride would accept that there would be negative press as well as positive.. nad that in order to lead the good life as a Princess AND have some freedom to nip off to the US to return to acting or some kind of career, one would have to put up iwht the bad press days....

If Meghan heard during her pregnancy that there were racist remarks being made about the baby.. and that he or she would not be made a Prince and would not have security, for these reasons.. I honestly wonder why she stayed in the RF as long as she did?
Did they not take up this issue and say "why is this? You can't take away a baby's' security because of his race." and if they were told that this was going to happen, why not make a fairly immediate exit from the family then, on the grounds that they were indeed heartless and racist?

 

[ladyjolene]

Does Meghan REALLY think that her son wasn't made a prince (or wont be made a prince in due course) because of his race? If so, really why did she ever marry into the family?

So much about her confuses me. She says they are the family she never had. Charles walks her down the aisle. The British people liked her (at least at first), but now she hates them and thinks they are horrible racists?

 

[Denville]

I think that whatever Meghan is, she's not that tough.. (Has Charles really ever heard of tungsten by the way?). She is not IMO very nice or a soft person but she is clearly someone who really really hates and can't handle criticism of any kind. I wonder how she handled bad acting reviews or not getting jobs.

 

[Sandy345]

I don't think anybody "hates" anyone. Hate is a strong word. Perhaps disliking is better word to use.. Harry did say they were the family Meghan never had. I think he said this because of the behavior primarily of Samantha Grant (Markle) who was criticizing Meghan during the courtship and marriage. I don't think Meghan and/or Harry his family are "horrible racists." I think that is more speculation. I don't think Meghan "hates." Harry was the one more complaining during that interview and I doubt he "hates" either. I also don't think the "British people" all "liked her." Some of the blogs and media comments showed great negativity towards her when she was first seen with Harry. Some wanted to "stop the wedding." I found that very extreme.

 

[Denville]

I don't think anybody "hates" anyone. Hate is a strong word. Perhaps disliking is better word to use.. Harry did say they were the family Meghan never had. I think he said this because of the behavior primarily of Samantha Grant (Markle) who was criticizing Meghan during the courtship and marriage. I don't think Meghan and/or Harry think they are "horrible racists." I think that is more speculation. I don't think Meghan "hates." Harry was the one more complaining during that interview and I doubt he "hates" either.

? They claimed that the RF wouldn't give Archie a title or security, if he turned out ot be of darker skin? That is pretty horrible racist behaiviour.