The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #1181  
Old 04-15-2021, 12:47 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: philadelphia, United States
Posts: 1,730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kataryn View Post
I really like the fact that all official flags in Denmark will be on half-mast on saturday on command of HM queen Margrethe, because she wants to highlight the fact that Philip was a prince of Denmark, too. Even though his sisters had married into former reigning families of Germany, Philip himself never was a German, neither by citizenship nor by male-line descent. His father was a Greek and Danish prince, his mother a British princess from a family who had given up their German roots to stick with Britain. Plus the family Alice was from, a minor branch of the Hesse-family, was in their male-line descent a family from the "Middle Realm", the empire Charlemagne's son Lothar had inherited which went in-between France and Germany from Flanders and the Netherlands down to Rome. Their founder had, during Lothar's reign, kidnapped one of Lothar's daughters and married her, thus founding a family who for more than1100 years held reigning positions throughout Europe.
That's the Battenberg/Mountbatten-descent and something Philip could have been proud of, I believe. But traditionally you are going by the father's ancestry and that was Danish (though of course with German blood through the princesses who had married into the family).
I am really surprised by these kind of statements.

For centuries Denmark was ruled by German Oldenburg dynasty which only married German princesses for centuries...later Denmark was ruled and still is by collateral branch of that same Oldenburg dynasty, Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg branch, which also came from Germany in mid 19th century to rule in Denmark.

Maybe Philip was born Prince of Greece and Denmark, but he didn't have a drop of either Greek or Danish blood for centuries. Out of his 128 nearest ancestors only 3 of them were NOT ethnically German (one French, Italian and Polish) and all 3 of them came through Princess Julia von Battenberg.

Maybe Philip didn't have German citizenship, nor officially German titles, but that doesn't change the fact that based on his ancestry he was German by blood from top to toe...whether someone like it or not. Britain, Russia, Greece and Denmark were all ruled by various German dynasties which spread all over Europe and intermarried almost only with other German dynasties.

His father was Prince of Greece with no Greek blood, his grandfather was Danish prince with no Danish blood, his grandmother Grand Duchess of Russia with almost no Russian blood. Ethnically they were Germans from German dynasties and that's a fact.

I just don't know what is wrong with that, what is wrong with saying yes, he had exclusively German ancestry? What is wrong with saying facts? Is it a some sort of shame or what?

Those are facts which everybody can see in his ancestry chart and that almost everybody is trying to hide somehow, based on his birth place, citizenship, how he privately felt etc.
__________________

  #1182  
Old 04-15-2021, 12:49 PM
Stefan's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Esslingen, Germany
Posts: 5,469
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fijiro View Post
But their spouses are forgotten - from the list, I see there was no way to include them.

The Duchess of Kent is i think not in the best health so that could also be a reason and of course the limted number of people who can attend.
__________________

__________________
Stefan



  #1183  
Old 04-15-2021, 12:54 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 1,410
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan View Post
The Duchess of Kent is i think not in the best health so that could also be a reason and of course the limted number of people who can attend.
And no Prince Michael of Kent... I don’t know about the health of Prince Michael but as he is as closely related to Philip as his attending siblings (while the Duke of Gloucester is only distantly related) i suspect there is health issues involved...
  #1184  
Old 04-15-2021, 01:05 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: England, United Kingdom
Posts: 3,533
Or one person representing each family branch? Alexandra seemed especially close to the Queen (and Philip to an extent) so she may be there on her own merit a such and the others representing their families.
  #1185  
Old 04-15-2021, 01:12 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,837
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans-Rickard View Post
And no Prince Michael of Kent... I don’t know about the health of Prince Michael but as he is as closely related to Philip as his attending siblings (while the Duke of Gloucester is only distantly related) i suspect there is health issues involved...
I suspect that since the Kents are already represented twice that a decision was made to cut him to include others. It has happened at many, many funerals in the last year. He might have health issues that made it a wise idea anyway but it's more likely a numbers thing. Unfortunately.
  #1186  
Old 04-15-2021, 01:25 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Manchester, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,472
They can only ask 30 people: it's very difficult. Everyone having to organise a funeral in these strange times is in the same position. I think Princess Alexandra's always been quite close to both the Queen and Prince Philip, and I assume they asked the Duke of Gloucester over Prince Michael so that the Gloucesters weren't left out completely.


They might just have decided they didn't want too many people walking behind the coffin, so to keep it to the children and the adult grandsons. It's an odd decision to have Peter in between William and Harry, though - you'd think it'd be in order of age, so William'd be in the middle, and it's bound to attract attention that they won't be next to each other. I hardly think they're likely to start a punch-up if Peter isn't in the middle to referee, so I'm not sure what that's about.
  #1187  
Old 04-15-2021, 01:34 PM
Commoner
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Canterbury, United Kingdom
Posts: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
I suspect that since the Kents are already represented twice that a decision was made to cut him to include others. It has happened at many, many funerals in the last year. He might have health issues that made it a wise idea anyway but it's more likely a numbers thing. Unfortunately.
Yes it does seem a bit odd that Prince Michael isn't included when his brother and sister are, but I appreciate it's difficult with the limit on numbers. I guess the Dukes of Kent and Gloucester are there as heads of their families, and maybe Princess Alexandra is there as the only surviving bridesmaid from Philip and Elizabeth's wedding, apart from Lady Pamela Mountbatten (Hicks) whom we know isn't coming

(Though I have just realised Michael was also in attendance at the Queen's wedding.......as a pageboy......)
  #1188  
Old 04-15-2021, 01:37 PM
JR76's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Malmö, Sweden
Posts: 3,670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc23 View Post
I am really surprised by these kind of statements.

For centuries Denmark was ruled by German Oldenburg dynasty which only married German princesses for centuries...later Denmark was ruled and still is by collateral branch of that same Oldenburg dynasty, Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg branch, which also came from Germany in mid 19th century to rule in Denmark.

Maybe Philip was born Prince of Greece and Denmark, but he didn't have a drop of either Greek or Danish blood for centuries. Out of his 128 nearest ancestors only 3 of them were NOT ethnically German (one French, Italian and Polish) and all 3 of them came through Princess Julia von Battenberg.

Maybe Philip didn't have German citizenship, nor officially German titles, but that doesn't change the fact that based on his ancestry he was German by blood from top to toe...whether someone like it or not. Britain, Russia, Greece and Denmark were all ruled by various German dynasties which spread all over Europe and intermarried almost only with other German dynasties.

His father was Prince of Greece with no Greek blood, his grandfather was Danish prince with no Danish blood, his grandmother Grand Duchess of Russia with almost no Russian blood. Ethnically they were Germans from German dynasties and that's a fact.

I just don't know what is wrong with that, what is wrong with saying yes, he had exclusively German ancestry? What is wrong with saying facts? Is it a some sort of shame or what?

Those are facts which everybody can see in his ancestry chart and that almost everybody is trying to hide somehow, based on his birth place, citizenship, how he privately felt etc.
Nobody is trying to hide anything. Even if they did these things get brought up by all and sundry as soon as anyone, the royals themselves included, dares to put any label on a Protestant royal that's other than German. To say that the Oldenburgs are exclusively German ignores the fact that they've been on the Danish throne for 600 years and also ignores the very complex ethnic and linguistic composition of the pre-1848 Danish realm where ethnicity, language spoken and national identity rarely went hand in hand. Philip himself identified as Danish (or Scandinavian) and that's good enough for me.
  #1189  
Old 04-15-2021, 01:41 PM
W.Y.CII's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Somewhere, Hong Kong
Posts: 973
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
It's an odd decision to have Peter in between William and Harry, though - you'd think it'd be in order of age, so William'd be in the middle, and it's bound to attract attention that they won't be next to each other. I hardly think they're likely to start a punch-up if Peter isn't in the middle to referee, so I'm not sure what that's about.
It is actually a logical decision, as normally person who is more important/higher in ranking will be placed at middle. In this case it ranks by age, so the higher ranking (Peter) will be in middle, while the younger (William and Harry) will be in Peter's each side. (Yes the media is going to fuss about it but it's how thing normally work.)
__________________
Bad money drives out good.
  #1190  
Old 04-15-2021, 01:46 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Woodbury, United States
Posts: 2,635
Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Y.CII View Post
It is actually a logical decision, as normally person who is more important/higher in ranking will be placed at middle. In this case it ranks by age, so the higher ranking (Peter) will be in middle, while the younger (William and Harry) will be in Peter's each side. (Yes the media is going to fuss about it but it's how thing normally work.)
How is Peter higher ranking than William?
  #1191  
Old 04-15-2021, 01:49 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Somewhere, United States
Posts: 2,143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
How is Peter higher ranking than William?


By age- since Peter is older. If the order is somehow age related and the middle person is considered highest ranking- Peter is in the middle as the oldest. And that’s why William and Harry are separated.

Nevertheless- people will talk about William and Harry not standing together under the known circumstances.
  #1192  
Old 04-15-2021, 01:50 PM
W.Y.CII's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Somewhere, Hong Kong
Posts: 973
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
How is Peter higher ranking than William?
You skipped the most important part:
Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Y.CII View Post
It is actually a logical decision, as normally person who is more important/higher in ranking will be placed at middle. In this case it ranks by age, so the higher ranking (Peter) will be in middle, while the younger (William and Harry) will be in Peter's each side. (Yes the media is going to fuss about it but it's how thing normally work.)
Isn't he the eldest grandson of DoE?
__________________
Bad money drives out good.
  #1193  
Old 04-15-2021, 01:55 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,837
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erin9 View Post
By age- since Peter is older. If the order is somehow age related and the middle person is considered highest ranking- Peter is in the middle as the oldest. And that’s why William and Harry are separated.

Nevertheless- people will talk about William and Harry not standing together under the known circumstances.
They'd talk if they were standing together as well. It's unavoidable right now unfortunately.
  #1194  
Old 04-15-2021, 01:57 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Oxford, United Kingdom
Posts: 266
Death of HRH the Duke of Edinburgh: 9 April 2021

I think Peter is in the middle because he is the eldest. There is also something in the Daily Mail about them ending up walking in twos once they arrive at the chapel so William will move ahead at some point (to be joined by Catherine?).

I’m surprised Prince Michael of Kent not being there. I thought maybe he would have been there over Daniel Chatto given all the other cousins are there.
  #1195  
Old 04-15-2021, 01:58 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Manchester, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,472
Just on a different note, we're coming to the end of the era in which consorts of reigning monarchs were themselves born royal. That's something that goes back over 1,000 years.
  #1196  
Old 04-15-2021, 02:01 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Woodbury, United States
Posts: 2,635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erin9 View Post
By age- since Peter is older. If the order is somehow age related and the middle person is considered highest ranking- Peter is in the middle as the oldest. And that’s why William and Harry are separated.

Nevertheless- people will talk about William and Harry not standing together under the known circumstances.
Let’s say this is about age...is this an example of “never explain” ? Regardless, I can envision all the broadcasts, especially in America where the media now loathes the BRF, is uninformed and gossipy, will be about W and H.

Quote:
“We’re not going to be drawn into those perceptions of drama or anything like that,’’ a palace spokesman said while speaking on condition of anonymity in line with policy. “This is a funeral and the arrangements have been agreed and they represent Her Majesty’s wishes.”
  #1197  
Old 04-15-2021, 02:05 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 1,410
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
I suspect that since the Kents are already represented twice that a decision was made to cut him to include others. It has happened at many, many funerals in the last year. He might have health issues that made it a wise idea anyway but it's more likely a numbers thing. Unfortunately.
In my ears, it would have been very logic to cut a spouse off the list if Prince Michael really wanted to attend... He is closely related through Princess Marina and was even a page-boy at the wedding in 1947

We know that Princess Michael caught Covid-19 last year and was quite badly affected so perhaps it affected him too...

Also surprised to see no Lady Pamela Hicks among the names, but perhaps she has been adviced to not attend for health reasons... She is 91 after all
  #1198  
Old 04-15-2021, 02:08 PM
Somebody's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Somewhere, Suriname
Posts: 6,662
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
New release of info (at 5pm as I predicted lol) - all from Rebeca English twitter as first I could find


*The Queen, accompanied by a lady in waiting, will wear a mask throughout proceedings and follow her husband’s funeral procession in her official Bentley.

*Palace officials confirm the Mail’s story today that senior royals will not wear uniform. Instead they will be morning/day dress with medals.

*William & Harry will not walk shoulder to shoulder when they join senior royals for the funeral procession. Cousin Peter Philips will be in between them.

From telegraph

There will be no congregational singing during the Duke of Edinburgh’s funeral.
A small choir of 4, comprising 3 lay clarks from the St George’s Chapel choir and a soprano, who is a member of the St George’s community, will perform each piece of music

Express has guest list
https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal...gh-funeral-evg

The full list of guests at Prince Philip’s funeral is as follows:

The Queen
The Prince of Wales
The Duchess of Cornwall
The Duke of Cambridge
The Duchess of Cambridge
The Duke of Sussex
The Duke of York
Princess Beatrice
Edoardo Mapelli Mozzi
Princess Eugenie
Jack Brooksbank
The Earl of Wessex
The Countess of Wessex
Lady Louise Windsor
Viscount Severn
The Princess Royal
Vice Admiral Sir Timothy Laurence
Peter Phillips
Zara Phillips
Mike Tindall
Earl of Snowdon
Lady Sarah Chatto
Daniel Chatto
Duke of Gloucester
Duke of Kent
Princess Alexandra
Bernhard, Hereditary Prince of Baden
Prince Donatus, Landgrave of Hesse
Prince Philipp of Hohenlohe-Langenburg
The Countess Mountbatten of Burma
I assume Lady Pamela Hicks was not healthy enough to be included. The private secretary not included either although it was previously announced that he would join the family in St George's Chapel. Maybe he will be considered to be 'working' at the funeral and therefore, doesn't need to be counted? In this way both The Duke of Gloucester and Princess Alexandra are able to attend.

And it seems they've decided that working from old to young for the grandchildren is a way to separate William and Harry (it makes some sense to just go by age; but at the queen mother's funeral for William and Harry they went by precedence (although Anne was given precedence over her younger brothers) with William and Harry in the middle and David and Peter on the outside. So, it seems it was also done to avoid them walking next to each other. Just like the decision to wear morning coats instead of uniforms is made to avoid awkwardness.

I expect the first line to be:
Andrew (3) - Charles (1) - Anne (2) - Edward (4)
And second line:
Harry (3) - Peter (1) - William (2) - James (4)

If except for Anne (of course she might chose not to walk this time; than it will be the three brothers with Charles in the middle; or Timothy added to the mix on the side), only the men will walk; I am not sure with which group they would continue: spouses? British cousins? German cousins? Yet, this might be how each line would look like:
Jack (3) - Timothy (1) - Mike (2) - Edoardo (4) [based on length of marriage]
David (Snowdon; 3) - Richard (Gloucester; 1) - Edward (Kent; 2) - Daniel (4) [based on precedence]
Bernhard (3) - Philipp (1) - Donatus (2) [based on length as head of the family]
  #1199  
Old 04-15-2021, 02:08 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 2,544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Lyman View Post
I think Peter is in the middle because he is the eldest. There is also something in the Daily Mail about them ending up walking in twos once they arrive at the chapel so William will move ahead at some point (to be joined by Catherine?).

I’m surprised Prince Michael of Kent not being there. I thought maybe he would have been there over Daniel Chatto given all the other cousins are there.
I'm very surprised indeed about Prince Michael as he was a pageboy at the Queen's wedding and it does seem a little unkind to ask his brother and sister and not him. I think it would have been nicer if the Duke of Kent alone had represented their branch of the family or to have left the Duke out and had PM and PA there as they had both been attendants at the wedding.
  #1200  
Old 04-15-2021, 02:09 PM
Frelinghighness's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New England, United States
Posts: 5,816
Quote:
Originally Posted by BritishRoyalist View Post
Okay, I was not aware of that. It seems in most places it still people in their 50s and 60s. Where I live those in their 30s who are not at high risk can not get it yet.
My son in California, younger than Harry got a vaccine a month ago. They are prioritizing by type of work you do, not just age. Teachers in Massachusetts and child care workers able to be vaccinated March 11 for example. Some states are doing it strictly by age, many other aren’t
__________________

Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Death of HRH Princess Lalla Fatima Zohra ( 1929-2014) Mademoiselle Lilo Royal Family of Morocco 3 10-19-2014 04:51 PM
Death of HRH Princess Lalla Amina (1954-2012) elladora Royal Family of Morocco 16 09-02-2012 06:37 PM
Death of HRH Princess Lalla Aicha: 17 June 1930-4 September 2011 kaoutar Royal Family of Morocco 28 10-06-2011 08:46 PM
Death of HRH The Duke of Parma 18 August 2010 iceflower Royal Families of Italy 149 11-06-2010 02:26 PM
Bahrain: Death of HRH Prince Faisal, son of King Hamad - January 12, 2006 fanletizia Royal and Ruling Families of the Gulf States 17 01-15-2006 12:02 PM




Popular Tags
america american archie mountbatten-windsor asia birth britain britannia british british royal family buckingham palace camilla's family camilla parker-bowles camilla parker bowles carolin china chinese ming dynasty asia asian emperor royalty qing clarence house colorblindness crown jewels customs doge of venice dresses duchess of sussex duke of cambridge duke of sussex edward vii elizabeth ii family life fashion and style gemstones genetics gradenigo harry and meghan hello! henry viii history hochberg house of windsor hypothetical monarchs japan japanese imperial family japan history kensington palace king edward vii king juan carlos lili mountbatten-windsor list of rulers medical meghan markle monarchist movements monarchists monarchy names nara period plantinum jubilee pless politics prince harry queen elizabeth ii queen victoria royal ancestry solomon j solomon spanish royal family st edward sussex suthida tradition unfinished portrait united states of america wales welsh


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:43 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2021
Jelsoft Enterprises
×