Princely House of Thurn und Taxis 2: July 2008 - July 2011


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Here is the W magazine article:

Read More Gloria Takes Manhattan: Gloria von Thurn und Taxis: Society: Wmagazine.com

A copy of a passage about her homes ( private, not family property):

Gloria has no shortage of homes around the world—there’s an apartment in Rome, a beach compound in Kenya and a sprawling lake house in Bavaria—but she says none of those locales offer anything close to the stimulation of New York, where she finds herself choosing among a half dozen invitations and events each day.

In Bavaria the T'n'T family ( so Albert ) owns: St. Emmeram castle and I think 4 more castle and a hunting "village" ( several little houses like russian Datschas around one main house - a very famouse german politician Franz Joseph Strauss died there in the attendance of Gloria and her late husband on a cardiac infarction ).

​
 
Thanks for the information!
It makes sense for Furstin Gloria to have her own residences. Technically speaking, the family property will belong to Prince Albert and his wife, and then his children (if he has any). Furstin Gloria can bequeath her own properties to her daughters and son.
By the way, who would inherit the family properties, if Prince Albert did not have an issue?
 
What you all have to know is following information: ( you will all have to read it twice, because its rather complicated )

Prince France Josef, 9 th Prince of T & T passed the whole family fortune on to his unborn great grandchild to save death duty !

Why his great grandchild ?

In the early years of the federal republic of germany they had another inheritance law.
To save taxes it was possible to inherit things to unborn members of the family - sounds weird but is genious ( a bit risky also, cause no one knows, if children will be born). Inherit things to your great grandchild means saving taxes for a long ! time.

That means: In 1971 the 10 th Prince got control over the family wealth, but didn't had to pay any taxes at all, because he just did not INHERITED IT !!!!! ( Not again.: The heir of the 9 th Prince of T&T is the 12 th Prince of T&T, and not his own children).
He was not the owner but the main administrative authority of his own wealth!!! He was a usufructuary, a beneficiary so to say.

People would say: God, this guy gave his money away because he was to avaricous to pay taxes, but in fact he left his sons and grand sons full control at any time without loosing familys money. Genious!

The taxes of the inheritage of 1971 first had to be paid in the year someone became the 12 th Prince of T & T. This happened in 1990, when Alberts father Johannes, 11 th prince, died.

So in 1990 Albert become heir, the first "real" owner of the family wealth for nearly 20 years. But than they also had to pay full taxes: this is the reason why Gloria had to sell so much. ( That Albert was only 7, did not matter - children have to pay inheritage taxes in the moment they inherit, not when they turn 18.)

What happened to Gloria and her children ???

In German law is the law of the "legal portion": Your closes relatives have the right of a certain percentage of your wealth ( no matter if you like them or not !!). But this concerns ONLY the closes relatives. Of course you can make a testament, but whatever you write in it, the right of the legal portion comes first and then your last will.

So when Johannes died and Albert became 12 th Prince, they were no closes relatives any more ( all died) and so ONLY Albert inherited, because he was the only heir by the late prince testament. So Albert inherited 100 % of the T & T wealth.
( Here you see the second geniuos reason for this crazy rule: family wealth was kept together and not splitted by legal portion over the years.)

What happend to Johannes, Jo's father Karl August, Gloria and her daughters:
they got N O T H I N G of the T & T family wealth ( read it from my lips: Not a Penny !)

Unbelievable, but true !!!

What did they inherit ??? Oh, they got a bit ( bit more, we would say ; ))) )

Jo's father and Jo got some " pocket money" when they came to an certain age: some millions they could invest or do similar things with. This was ther personal wealth. There was also the inheritage of their wives and mothers.

Both were god businessmen and they increased they private fortune.

From this several million euro private fortune ( on which they all had to pay regular inheritage taxes, just by the way) Gloria and her daughters inherited.

So Gloria and her daughters only have some millions in deed .....no several hundred millions they normaly had to inherit, if their would have been a normal "row" of inheritages.

So they are all not as rich as we thought and Albert is richer than we can imagine.

This is why Gloria said in the interview: I don't have the same buget as the heir of T&T!

Source: the book " Gloria - a princess talks" ( Gloria: Die Fürstin - Im Gespräch mit Peter Seewald: Amazon.de: Gloria Fürstin von Thurn und Taxis: Bücher)


I'm sure you all have to read this article twice, but it makes sense ; )

Nowadays in Germany is a new law of inheritance. I don't know if they can do that a second time.
 
The children of the 9 th prince of T&T, so the 10 th prince brothers and sister were payed off, not to claim their legal portions. Forgot to say that.
 
I Albert dies without an heir, he will pass his whole fortune to his first male relative: Heir presumptive at the moment is Prince Max Emanuel.

When it comes to the time, that Albert is old and has no children, he might adopt his nephew/ cousin to avoid legal portion problems with his sisters. If he dies in an exident now, actually his mother and sister should inherited, but I quite sure, scince Albert does racing ( it is dangerous, we all know that !), he made a testament !
 
:previous:
Thanks for the clarifications!:flowers: I hope that Prince Albert will find his soul mate and the union will continue the bloodline.
 
Is Prince Albert even dating anyone? I don't think I've ever seen his name linked to anyone.
 
Well, the house of T&T deals every issue about the Prince very low in the press. The have PR specialist and try to keep him out of the focus of the press. The only press stuff he does is about his car racings.
ADAC GT Masters

This is the reason, why he didn't attend his mothers birthday party at Maxims.
 
Thank you for the info Seraphine. It makes sense now.:flowers:
 
So, if I have correctly understood, the main assets of Thurn und Taxis Family are separated from the personal assets of the members of the family, who receives an income from them.
In 1971, when Fürst Franz Josef died, all the TuT assets, belonging to FJ as Head of the Princely Family, were bequeath to his (at the time not yet born) great-nephew in order to avoid inheritance taxes; and until this great-nephew Albert succeeded to his father Johannes, the assets of the late Franz Josef were managed by FJ's brother Karl August firstly, and after KA's death in 1982 they were administred by KA's son Johannes, and only in 1990 at Johannes' death these assets were finally inherited by Albert. In this way, although Albert had to pay the inheritance taxes, both Karl August and Johannes were able to avoid paying them.
And in the meantime, due to the legal portion, the personal assets of Franz Josef were inherited by his daughters, the personal assets of Karl August by his children (among them, Johannes), and the personal assets of Johannes by his wife Gloria and his three children.
 
Yes that's right.
The personal assets of Franz Josef were inherited by all of his children.
Now the main assets of the family and the private asset of the head of the house are one asset again ( no one knows how long - I don't have informations about the current situation, I've just read those informations in Gloria's book.)
 
Wow, thanks a lot to you Seraphine, those are very interesting informations. Didn't even know that you could bequest your money to a child who nobody knows if it will ever been born :lol: Wonder what would have happened if Albert had never been born :ermm:
 
The heir would have been the 12 th prince of Thurn and Taxis. The heir could also have been one of Johannes brothers.
 
Johannes had a brother, Albert. He died early. So it would be the sons of the younger brother of Karl August. And thats Raphael TuTs sons. Or not? I think you wrote that, Max Emanuel.
Ludwig Philipps son Anselm died in the war. And there is Philipps son Albrecht.
 
He looks better...:whistling:

But you are right, Albert is really friendly and I like how he and his mother are close. And he doesn´t seems to be snobbish.
 
Fürstin Taxis said:
He looks better...:whistling:

But you are right, Albert is really friendly and I like how he and his mother are close. And he doesn´t seems to be snobbish.
Click to expand...

Indeed and the look is a question of taste...I think Albert is really sexy :p
 
I can't find Albert's loss of hair sexy :)biggrin:), but he seems nice and down to earth, compared with his mother...
 
If Albert wasn't born, the heir of Johannes would be Johannes' cousin Max Emmanuel; but Max Emmanuel had two sons born into a morganatic marriage, so they are not eligible for the succession, and thus for inheriting Franz Josef's main assets.
The next in line would be Albrecht, another cousin of Johannes and nephew of Franz Josef; Albrecht has no children. And both Max Emmanuel and Albrecht would pay inheritance taxes.
But the next eligible successor are very distant cousins, the brothers Friedrich (the journalist, who is childless), Karl (married morganatically) and Maximilian (unmarried and childless).

Indeed Franz Joseph took an enormous risk (and Thurn un Taxis Family has been very lucky that Gloria and Johannes became parents of a son and heir...)
 
Whih is why it is very important for him to marry and have some sons, soon. As has been shown by a couple of recent deaths, (Brazil, WindischGraetz and Low Ros.)it is all too easy for an accident to occur. Especially as he is involved in a high risk activity.

Of course i can say this because it's not my life we are talking about.:whistling:
 
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Prince Max Karl, head of the family and great-great-great-grandfather of Johanens had 14 sons.

1. Karl Wilhelm, died early
2. Maximilian Anton, had two sons Albert and Maximilian Maria (didn´t married)
3. Egon, had two sons, one unmarried, the other one morganatic
4. Theodor, his only son had a daughter (which is the mother of Max Emanuel)
5. Otto, both sons died unmarried
6. Georg, married morganatic
7. Paul, married morganatic
8. Hugo, died young
9. Gustav, no children
10. Wilhelm died early
11. Adolf had three daughters
12. Franz had four sons: Nikolaus died early, Gustav was murdered without offsprings, Egon died in the war, and Franz didn´t married
13. Nikolaus died early
14. Alfred died early, too.

Max Karl was the only son, his two brothers died.
And Prince Max (1769 - 1831), (brother of Prince Karl Anselm), had sons, too. But their offsprings married morganatic.
MA, I think you´re right. Franz Joseph was clever.
Of course, they could changed it so, that the eldest child gets heir, girl or son. But in their conservative opinions, girls had never the chance. :nonono:
Which is funny, because the women of the house saved lots of time the Thurn und Taxis against bankrupts (Gloria), Napoleon (Therese), thieves (Alexandra de Rye) etc.
 
I just want to add one thing:

Johannes had to marry a girl from high nobilty, but Albert doesn't need to!

Why ? It was written so in the testament.
I don't know the exact formulation, but Gloria said years ago in a BILD interview, that Albert can marry a middle class girl, if he wants to ( an she also said: "I'd love her to be a nice girl, catholic and with nice, not-divorced parents).
 
:previous:
That's nice, and I qualify :whistling: :lol:
But my actual question: I've read a couple of times that Elisabeth was quite sick a couple of years ago, does someone know what it was?
 
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According to Bild she had a tumour between her rips that had to be removed in 2006.
 
Seraphine said:
I don't know the exact formulation, but Gloria said years ago in a BILD interview, that Albert can marry a middle class girl, if he wants to ( an she also said: "I'd love her to be a nice girl, catholic and with nice, not-divorced parents).
Click to expand...
It is wonderful that Furstin Gloria does not plan to influence or interfere with Prince Albert's choice. At the same time, I often wonder what her reaction would be, if the girl of Prince Albert's choice fell short of Furstin Gloria's expectations.
 
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Seraphine said:
... Gloria said... "I'd love her to be a nice girl, catholic and with nice, not-divorced parents).
Click to expand...
Weren't Gloria's own parents divorced?
rolleyes.gif
 
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Yes, they were.....In Germany we say: she is päpstlicher als der Papst.....she is more pontificial than the pope is.....:)
But may be she wants her daughter in law coming from a happy family, that knows how to make her son also a happy family... ?
 
Seraphine said:
Nowadays in Germany is a new law of inheritance. I don't know if they can do that a second time.
Click to expand...

Do you know how it is possible to give the main family assets to one male heir? I've never understood how the German noble families have been able to do this and avoid portioning. Is it that the assets are in a trust and you can make anyone the beneficiary?
 
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