General Discussion about Royal Residences 2: Sep 2022 -

[tommy100]

Clearly won't happen as both Peter and Zara's families are settled in Gloucestershire, all based around Gatcombe but for fun it would be great.

Most likely IMO is that it will be leased out to someone on a 'commercial' basis, thus someone who an afford a hefty rent / lease.

 

[muriel]

Clearly won't happen as both Peter and Zara's families are settled in Gloucestershire, all based around Gatcombe but for fun it would be great.

Most likely IMO is that it will be leased out to someone on a 'commercial' basis, thus someone who an afford a hefty rent / lease.

Or FC will end up being used by a senior courtier.

 

[tommy100]

I could well be, but I think it is rather large for that and not in London so hard to justify as a 'necessity for work'.

 

[Lilyflo]

Personally, I wouldn't take anything on the Windsor estate as a gift. It's right under the Heathrow flightpath and the constant noise would drive me insane. However, I do have friends in the area so I know one can become used to it and there will be people willing to live there.

 

[royal-blue]

It will be interesting in 20 years time to see where the Wales children end up living. I expect CH will be earmarked for George and apartments at KP for his siblings. Without them occupying these residences, they may well be empty of royal occupants by then.

 

[muriel]

It will be interesting in 20 years time to see where the Wales children end up living. I expect CH will be earmarked for George and apartments at KP for his siblings. Without them occupying these residences, they may well be empty of royal occupants by then.

I suspect KP will be vacated in time.

 

[An Ard Ri]

I suspect KP will be vacated in time.

I agree and will be used as a Museum or for exhibitions,but no longer a Royal Residence.

 

[FigTree]

I agree and will be used as a Museum or for exhibitions,but no longer a Royal Residence.

Which is what it is now.

 

[tommy100]

I think KP will continue to be used for some residences, certainly for senior staff. However its possible George could live in CH, with Charlotte and Louis occupying apartments in S James if they are vacant (Anne has one there now as do Edward and Sophie having moved out of BP for the renovations and Beatrice has one she pays rent for).

A big part of KPs future is down to whether it could all be used by The Royal Collection - could they use all the now private apartments as offices etc. If they can't make use of it all then the remaining space will be used for something and renting them out commercially or to staff where payment via salary is made so either way they are bringing in money. Of course the odd royal may then also choose to live there. I mean the alternative is St James which seems much smaller and cramped by Palace standards to me.

The Royal Collection has some offices at St James Palace now so maybe they could make use of more or all of Kensington Palace and leave St James solely for the royal family / royal household.

Another factor to consider is William clearly having (at some point at least) a desire to use KP for the connection it has to his mother. He may quite like the idea of seeing his children living at KP.

 

[Curryong]

This is a rather silly article from the DM’s Richard Eden about Andrew supposedly losing his Balmoral home (which I don’t think is going to happen.) However at the end Eden points to something quite important, and something I’ve felt for some time. That is that of all the royal properties and estates, Balmoral, especially the castle, is a continuous financial drain. Because of where it is situated the castle and other properties on the estate aren’t used for a good six to seven months of the year. Balmoral just cannot pay for itself. And opening it up for another couple of weeks isn’t going to solve anything.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowb...aces-losing-summer-holiday-home-Balmoral.html

‘Balmoral and its 50,000 acres cost around £3million a year to run - and opening it up as a tourist attraction between April and the end of July attracts over 70,000 tourists. But the tourist income only meets around half the estate's costs.

Balmoral is privately owned by the King, who meets its costs personally.’

 

[tommy100]

The article itself says Charles usually visits the Castle of Mey in the first week of August so it seems like the decision has been made to keep Balmoral open until the King is ready to take up residence (though I suspect he will stay on at Birkhall but "host" at Balmoral). The late Queen use to arrive a few days before it was open to the public and stay at Craigowan Lodge so it seems to me they could well be following that pattern. My understanding is is about an extra two weeks which does seem to suggest its more about fitting in with diaries than a determined effort to maximise income.

I suspect Charles may well allow other members of the family to use other properties on the estate if they wish (maybe Craigowan will be available to them) but only host at Balmoral himself from just after 16th August. W&C seemed to go up near the end of August so I don't blame Charles putting himself and his family first before his brother and other siblings - why should Charles close Balmoral before he is ready to stay there for his siblings but have to pay for the lost revenue himself (via the upkeep). I'd think it unfair if he didn't invite the wider family up given their childhood holidays were spent there and the late Queen died there but I think it is fair to do it on his terms.

 

[muriel]

This is a rather silly article from the DM’s Richard Eden about Andrew supposedly losing his Balmoral home (which I don’t think is going to happen.) However at the end Eden points to something quite important, and something I’ve felt for some time. That is that of all the royal properties and estates, Balmoral, especially the castle, is a continuous financial drain. Because of where it is situated the castle and other properties on the estate aren’t used for a good six to seven months of the year. Balmoral just cannot pay for itself. And opening it up for another couple of weeks isn’t going to solve anything.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowb...aces-losing-summer-holiday-home-Balmoral.html

‘Balmoral and its 50,000 acres cost around £3million a year to run - and opening it up as a tourist attraction between April and the end of July attracts over 70,000 tourists. But the tourist income only meets around half the estate's costs.

Balmoral is privately owned by the King, who meets its costs personally.’

The article itself says Charles usually visits the Castle of Mey in the first week of August so it seems like the decision has been made to keep Balmoral open until the King is ready to take up residence (though I suspect he will stay on at Birkhall but "host" at Balmoral). The late Queen use to arrive a few days before it was open to the public and stay at Craigowan Lodge so it seems to me they could well be following that pattern. My understanding is is about an extra two weeks which does seem to suggest its more about fitting in with diaries than a determined effort to maximise income.

I suspect Charles may well allow other members of the family to use other properties on the estate if they wish (maybe Craigowan will be available to them) but only host at Balmoral himself from just after 16th August. W&C seemed to go up near the end of August so I don't blame Charles putting himself and his family first before his brother and other siblings - why should Charles close Balmoral before he is ready to stay there for his siblings but have to pay for the lost revenue himself (via the upkeep). I'd think it unfair if he didn't invite the wider family up given their childhood holidays were spent there and the late Queen died there but I think it is fair to do it on his terms.

The second half of July and August have the UK school holidays, when most of the summer tourist activity takes place. Getting an extra fortnight of revenues from the castle being open to the public should improve finances for not much incremental cost, so IMO, it makes sense.

Other members of the BRF who want to visit can do so and use other properties on the estate, or come in a smaller time window. I do not think that is unreasonable in any way.

 

[tommy100]

Exactly. It still works for anyone in the family with children (the castle will be closed for some time in the school holidays so can be used by them then) and for everyone else it doesn't really matter as they can simply shift their holidays more into August / September if required. The fact the Castle is still closing at all in August suggests Charles is still intending to open it to the family IMO, financially it would be even better to keep it open all of August.



Interestingly, on a side note, the 16th August (the day the Castle closes to the public) is one day after Scottish school go back for the new school year. I wonder if that impacts their staffing a bit.

 

[muriel]

I think KP will continue to be used for some residences, certainly for senior staff. However its possible George could live in CH, with Charlotte and Louis occupying apartments in S James if they are vacant (Anne has one there now as do Edward and Sophie having moved out of BP for the renovations and Beatrice has one she pays rent for).

A big part of KPs future is down to whether it could all be used by The Royal Collection - could they use all the now private apartments as offices etc. If they can't make use of it all then the remaining space will be used for something and renting them out commercially or to staff where payment via salary is made so either way they are bringing in money. Of course the odd royal may then also choose to live there. I mean the alternative is St James which seems much smaller and cramped by Palace standards to me.

The Royal Collection has some offices at St James Palace now so maybe they could make use of more or all of Kensington Palace and leave St James solely for the royal family / royal household.

Another factor to consider is William clearly having (at some point at least) a desire to use KP for the connection it has to his mother. He may quite like the idea of seeing his children living at KP.

You may be right. It is entriely possible that, in time, fewer and fewer royals occupy KP, and the apartments are provided to senior courtiers and senior members of the armed forces. W&C may retain their KP apartment till they are monarch and consort.

 

[royal-blue]

Wouldn't it make more sense for the royal family to make use of the castle outside of the main tourist season altogether, eg in March or October rather than August?

 

[LauraS3514]

Wouldn't it make more sense for the royal family to make use of the castle outside of the main tourist season altogether, eg in March or October rather than August?

The weather is, um, less than optimal then, especially in March.

 

[muriel]

Wouldn't it make more sense for the royal family to make use of the castle outside of the main tourist season altogether, eg in March or October rather than August?

The weather is, um, less than optimal then, especially in March.

There is the issue of the weather, as identified by @LauraS3514. And then, there are school holidays for the Cambridge, Tindal and other school going children that will need to be accommodated.

But I do like the way the King has approached this, by reducing the period for which the castle is closed to the public. Will give the family a little less time, but still about 3 weeks of Balmoral time. The family members who want to stay longer can always use the other properties on the estate. I suspect C&C will continue to stay at Birkhall and not stay at Balmoral.

 

[Denville]

Not to mention that tehy go shooting and one of the reasons for going North in August is that they like most people want to get away from London when it is very hot there, like July nad August.

 

[muriel]

Not to mention that tehy go shooting and one of the reasons for going North in August is that they like most people want to get away from London when it is very hot there, like July nad August.

If I am not mistaken, the shooting season starts in September.

 

[Denville]

If I am not mistaken, the shooting season starts in September.

Grouse starts in August as far as I know. And London is hot and horrible in August and it is the time usually set aside for any work to be done in the London residences esp BP.

 

[Curryong]

https://www.gunsonpegs.com/guide-to-shooting/shooting-seasons

That’s right ‘The Glorious 12th August’ according to shooters anyway, begins on that date. Stag hunting starts in August as well.

 

[tommy100]

A lot of the RFs use of Sandringham and Balmoral is set around the shooting / hunting season. I'm sure its less of a factor now and based more on tradition but when you look at the shooting calendar you can see how it links up to the Royal residence use

https://www.williamevans.com/guide-to-shooting/shooting-seasons-uk

GROUSE - England, Scotland, Wales - 12th Aug-10th Dec
Red deer stags - Scotland - 1st Jul-20th Oct
PHEASANT - England, Scotland and Wales - 1st Oct-1st Feb

Sandringham (Christmas-Feb) is renowned for its pheasants, Balmoral (August-October) for grouse and stags.

 

[royal-blue]

If I was Charles, I would prefer to spend a few weeks each Christmas at Balmoral with the whole family. Likewise, Easter at Sandringham. This would free up the summer months for tourists.

 

[tommy100]

I've always wondered the same but come to the conclusion its maybe not practical to open Balmoral in Winter given it is so cold up there. I wondered once (half jokingly) if they were worried about the Queen getting stuck up in Aberdeenshire if the snow was bad.

That said, Charles did use to go up to Birkhall after Christmas at Sandringham (after the Boxing Day shoot) so maybe its not out the world of possibilities.

 

[Curryong]

If I was Charles, I would prefer to spend a few weeks each Christmas at Balmoral with the whole family. Likewise, Easter at Sandringham. This would free up the summer months for tourists.

But maybe ‘the whole family’ doesn’t want to spend a week or more in December’s icy weather up in Scotland. Especially as many of them have their own families, in laws etc, to visit at Xmas. Even at Sandringham many family members depart(ed) on Boxing Day.

And half the attraction of Balmoral in the summer, at least for the older members of the family, were/are outdoor picnics, pony and horse riding, stalking the deer and shooting and fishing, none of that possible or very enjoyable in snow and ice.

As for Easter, many of the above objections apply for Sandringham. Most of the late Queen’s children and grandchildren have their own lives on their own properties and estates with their own friends, and married-ins have their birth families to visit at festive times. Queen Camilla for example was often off relaxing at her own home and saw her children and grandchildren there. Maybe that doesn’t happen so frequently now she’s consort but I bet she very much tries to replicate it. That’s what happens when people marry and re-marry and loyalties are split.

 

[Susan D]

I still say that King Charles and Prince William have too many homes between them: I counted fourteen including Buckingham Palace and the Castle of Mey.

 

[An Ard Ri]

If I was Charles, I would prefer to spend a few weeks each Christmas at Balmoral with the whole family. Likewise, Easter at Sandringham. This would free up the summer months for tourists.

As quite a few members of the extended RF spend Christmas with the King/Queen with the weather and travel it might not be feasible.
Either Sandrigham or Windsor are more practical for Christmas given the time of the year.

I do hope we see a Royal gathering in Balmoral this summer as we approach that sad Anniversary.

 

[Hallo girl]

As quite a few members of the extended RF spend Christmas with the King/Queen with the weather and travel it might not be feasible.
Either Sandrigham or Windsor are more practical for Christmas given the time of the year.

I do hope we see a Royal gathering in Balmoral this summer as we approach that sad Anniversary.

I would agree with this sentiment, also some married ins like to spend time with their own families over the holiday period and this would not be practical if they were based in Balmoral.

 

[royal-blue]

King Charles to 'axe one in five middle managers'

Nearly a year into his reign, the King is also weary of senior courtiers telling him: 'But that's how the Queen did it.' The cuts will hit Buckingham Palace and Sandringham.

www.dailymail.co.uk

King Charles planning ‘major shakeup’ to Royal Household staff

The monarch and Queen Camilla are reportedly not in favour of ‘too many people doing the same jobs’

www.independent.co.uk

Interesting articles. I wonder how many staff lost their jobs after QE2 died?

 

[tommy100]

I saw that and wondered how true it was. Interesting that the Independent article is based on the original Mail of Sunday one so its not really a new source.

There does certainly seem a healthy about of jobs being advertised on the Royal Household recruitment page and Charles did have 100 staff of his own which made me wonder how "streamlined" he really sees things.

That said, I can well imagine Charles has asked aides to look at a variety of things and I am sure that would include a review of staffing.

I do wonder if part of it is that the core Royal Household staff needs a larger number of household staff for when big events like State Visits are on. Charles as PoW didn't have the issue of having to host such large domestic staff heavy events so could get away with a much smaller domestic staff consistent with "daily needs".