General Discussion about Royal Residences 2: Sep 2022 -

[Marengo]

Arms of The United Kingdom​

Welcome to the Thread General Discussion about Royal Residences , Part 2: Sep 2022 -

Commencing September 1st, 2022 ​

The previous thread can be found here
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[royal-blue]

I've been discussing a potential reassignment of royal residences under the next monarch for over a decade now. In reality, I don't expect much change at all. Obviously BP won't be habitable for a few years, so C&C will still use CH for now. Obviously they will move into Windsor Castle plus they have Sandringham House and Balmoral to take over. I can't see them switching Birkhall for Balmoral itself though, it's just too big to start all over again at their stage of life. Highgrove will probably be opened to the public year round, while continuing to be leased by Charles. He will be far too busy to be able to commit as much time to Highgrove, even to visit as often.

W&K have only just taken on AH, and have established homes at KP and Amner Hall, both if which cost a lot to renovate. I just can't see them taking on either Birkhall or Highgrove, at least for a considerable amount of time. They will be extremely busy with their new PoW roles, and have 3 young children to look after.

 

[Iluvbertie]

From what I have heard I believe Charles will continue to weekend as much as possible at Highgrove rather than Windsor.

 

[wbenson]

I wonder what they'll do about the ownership of Highgrove. I believe it's owned by the Duchy of Cornwall. Will the King have to pay rent to his son's duchy?

 

[muriel]

I wonder what they'll do about the ownership of Highgrove. I believe it's owned by the Duchy of Cornwall. Will the King have to pay rent to his son's duchy?

I suspect that the King will continue to lease Highgrove from the Duchy.

 

[FigTree]

I've been discussing a potential reassignment of royal residences under the next monarch for over a decade now. In reality, I don't expect much change at all. Obviously BP won't be habitable for a few years, so C&C will still use CH for now. Obviously they will move into Windsor Castle plus they have Sandringham House and Balmoral to take over. I can't see them switching Birkhall for Balmoral itself though, it's just too big to start all over again at their stage of life. Highgrove will probably be opened to the public year round, while continuing to be leased by Charles. He will be far too busy to be able to commit as much time to Highgrove, even to visit as often.

W&K have only just taken on AH, and have established homes at KP and Amner Hall, both if which cost a lot to renovate. I just can't see them taking on either Birkhall or Highgrove, at least for a considerable amount of time. They will be extremely busy with their new PoW roles, and have 3 young children to look after.

Windsor is unlikely to be occupied now. Although many royals live on or near the estate. Sandringham and Balmoral. Who knows? Sad to think the ‘family’ that we knew may not be gathering their any longer. I wonder if Charles will continue to have his siblings, nieces, nephews and cousins for Christmas at Sandringham? They may all now decide to stay at home in their own places.

 

[travelguy]

do we think Charles will still stay in Balmoral like the queen did

 

[Biri]

Is it known how many burial sites in St. George's Chapel is still available?

 

[HRHHermione]

Windsor is unlikely to be occupied now. Although many royals live on or near the estate. Sandringham and Balmoral. Who knows? Sad to think the ‘family’ that we knew may not be gathering their any longer. I wonder if Charles will continue to have his siblings, nieces, nephews and cousins for Christmas at Sandringham? They may all now decide to stay at home in their own places.

As I posted in the thread about the future for the Prince and Princess of Wales, speculation has already started that they are moving into Windsor Castle when things settle down.



https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-family/2022/09/10/changes-come-new-prince-princess-wales/


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/...incess-Wales-delay-moving-Windsor-Castle.html

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Is it known how many burial sites in St. George's Chapel is still available?

QEII will be interred specifically inside the George VI Memorial Chapel, where her parents, her husband and the columbarium with her sister's ashes are interred. I am not certain if any other Royal burials will be inside the George VI Memorial itself.

 

[tommy100]

I hope that, even if he doesn't plan on using it every summer, Charles hosts one more get together at Balmoral next summer as a chance for the family to reflect on the late Queen's life/ to remember her in "one last hurrah".

I hope he does host big family events still, though who knows. I can see him maybe moving Christmas to Windsor - it would likely make it easier for Camilla to see her family. Then he can move to Birkhall or Sandringham for the rest of the season after Boxing Day.

It would be a little odd if W&C move to Windsor after moving out of KP because its busy and open to the public - Windsor is as well and certain parts of the private areas can be seen from the public areas. That said a little move about of opening days and times may help sort that. Personally I wonder if they'll use some rooms for official purposes / working from but keep living at Adelaide.

 

[LauraS3514]

Is it known how many burial sites in St. George's Chapel is still available?

I'm not sure how much room is left in the Royal Vault under St. George's where most of George III's family are buried. I remember reading many years ago that there is room for six full-sized coffins in the George VI Chapel. There are currently two - George VI and Queen Elizabeth. Princess Margaret was cremated and the casket with her ashes was interred with her parents. It is believed that Prince Philip's coffin will be moved from the George III Royal Vault to the George VI Chapel to rest with The Queen. That would still leave room for two more coffins.

There is also an almost-unused vault under Queen Victoria's Mausoleum at Frogmore: for some reason, Victoria made room for her nine children to be buried there with her and Albert. None were. Edward VII and Leopold are at St. George's; Helena, Arthur, and Louise in the Royal Cemetary at Frogmore; Vicky, Alice, and Alfred are in Germany; and Beatrice is on the Isle of Wight.

 

[Prinsara]

George's; Helena, Alice, and Louise in the Royal Cemetary at Frogmore; Vicky, Alice, and Alfred are in Germany

Do you mean Arthur is at Frogmore?

If there's room for another four coffins at the St. George's chapel, I wonder why Margaret was told she needed to be cremated to fit?

 

[LauraS3514]

Do you mean Arthur is at Frogmore?

If there's room for another four coffins at the St. George's chapel, I wonder why Margaret was told she needed to be cremated to fit?

Oops! Yes, Arthur. I'll go back and fix it. From what I read, Margaret wanted to be with her parents. The plan was for the next two monarchs and their consorts to share the vault.

 

[Prinsara]

Now I'm thinking about the Queen Mother spending all eternity with the woman her grandson couldn't marry till after she died. Interesting.

 

[HRHHermione]

Now I'm thinking about the Queen Mother spending all eternity with the woman her grandson couldn't marry till after she died. Interesting.

This seems ahistorical and rather unkind as a take to me, personally. I think the King would have married the Queen Consort much sooner had Diana, Princess of Wales not died and made it far more politically sensitive.

Ultimately, the Queen Mother loved the King dearly and probably would have been glad he was happy. I doubt he would have used her ring for the Queen Consort’s engagement ring if he felt it was inappropriate to her memory.

 

[Prinsara]

This seems ahistorical and rather unkind as a take to me, personally. I think the King would have married the Queen Consort much sooner had Diana, Princess of Wales not died and made it far more politically sensitive.

Ultimately, the Queen Mother loved the King dearly and probably would have been glad he was happy. I doubt he would have used her ring for the Queen Consort’s engagement ring if he felt it was inappropriate to her memory.

No, even after the Queen Mum died, there were many obstacles to Charles and Camilla's eventual marriage, as detailed here. https://archive.ph/snc6j

However there is nothing there to suggest he would have married her while his grandmother was alive. "Unkind, ahistorical", off-topic, or not.

 

[Meee]

Oops! Yes, Arthur. I'll go back and fix it. From what I read, Margaret wanted to be with her parents. The plan was for the next two monarchs and their consorts to share the vault.

I didn’t know that it was planned for Charles to be laid to rest there too. Interesting. This must indicate that all concerned expected Charles to marry Camilla at some time by 2002, otherwise there would have been a spare place for Margaret to be buried there.

 

[royal-blue]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11225405/amp/Who-monarchys-palace-merry-round-RICHARD-KAY-examines-royal-residences.html

Interesting article but with a few innacuracies. It makes some good points though. For the monarchy to survive long term, public perception is imperative. We on here may understand the finances of the BRF, but most people just see the family as receiving large sums of money with a huge number of residences although obviously it's not that clear cut.

The Wales family will likely move to Windsor Castle soon which will free up Adelaide Cottage, and when the refunb is complete, the King & Queen may move to BP which will free up Clarence House.

Highgrove is the big question.

 

[muriel]

I am reposting something I had put out there sometime back. Still relevant, IMO.

***********************
Here is my current thinking on how the various royal residences will be used following the death of QE2:

BP: To be used by C&C after the refurb is complete

CLARENCE HOUSE: To be used by C&C till the refurb of BP is complete. Eventually a home for George when he is PoW. To be used as a museum or offices in the interim

KP: To be used by William and family till he is King. Some apartments may be kept for the Cambridge children, but eventually, to be returned to public use / handed back to the government

WINDSOR: Probably used by William and family, with C&C possibly having an apartment there, and using it for some entertaining.

HIGHGROVE: Continue to be used by C&C till the end of their lives. Lease between Charles and the Duchy of Cronwall to be put in place

BIRKHALL: Continue to be used by C&C till the end of their lives

BALMORAL: Tricky one. I suspect it needs quite a lot of money to be spent on a refurb and modernisation. If William wants to take it on, he will need to make that investment. Any which way, I can see it being opened up to the public a lot more.

ANMER: To be retained by the Cambridge family till William is King.

SANDRINGHAM: Not quite sure if Charles or William will want to keep the house in its current form, or start to use it for charitable purposes like Dumfries House.

 

[Iluvbertie]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11225405/amp/Who-monarchys-palace-merry-round-RICHARD-KAY-examines-royal-residences.html

Interesting article but with a few innacuracies. It makes some good points though. For the monarchy to survive long term, public perception is imperative. We on here may understand the finances of the BRF, but most people just see the family as receiving large sums of money with a huge number of residences although obviously it's not that clear cut.

The Wales family will likely move to Windsor Castle soon which will free up Adelaide Cottage, and when the refunb is complete, the King & Queen may move to BP which will free up Clarence House.

Highgrove is the big question.

Why is Highgrove a 'big question'?

It belongs to the Duchy of Cornwall and Charles loves it there. Can you really see William refuses to allow his father to continue to lease it?

Anmer of course is now Charles' as it is on the Sandringham Estate so father is now the tenant of the son and son is a tenant of the father.

 

[royal-blue]

Why is Highgrove a 'big question'?

It belongs to the Duchy of Cornwall and Charles loves it there. Can you really see William refuses to allow his father to continue to lease it?

Anmer of course is now Charles' as it is on the Sandringham Estate so father is now the tenant of the son and son is a tenant of the father.

Why on earth would William refuse to allow Charles to continue the lease? Seems an unlikely suggestion. In my opinion, Charles won't have enough time to commit to so many properties.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Why on earth would William refuse to allow Charles to continue the lease? Seems an unlikely suggestion. In my opinion, Charles won't have enough time to commit to so many properties.

I didn't say William wouldn't refuse to allow Charles to continue to lease it?

I asked you a question 'Can you really see William refuses to allow his father to continue to lease it?'

Charles will have as much time as his mother to commit to the same number of properties.

BP for weekdays

Highgrove for weekends

Sandringham maybe for a week or so at Christmas but nothing more.

Birkhall for January-February, Easter as he does now and again for July and August.

Windsor is the one that he won't be using and William can move into that shortly. It was rumoured last year that that was what was going to happen and then they moved into Adelaide Cottage instead.

If William wants to stay at Adelaide Cottage long term then Windsor becomes the castle that can become simply a museum and not a home as Charles doesn't like it and has already indicated he won't be using it the way his parents did.

 

[royal-blue]

Are Balmoral, Sandringham and Highgrove fully staffed all year round even if noone is in residence?

 

[Lilyflo]

This isn't what I think will happen but a suggestion of what I think should happen for the monarchy to modernise and survive:

• The King & Queen to move into BP as their London residence;
  The Prince & Princess of Wales to have accommodation in BP as their London residence;
  Rooms made available in BP to other working royals when they need to be in London;
  BP to continue being open to the public as much as possible;
  St James' Palace to cease being a royal residence, to be purely ceremonial and be open to the public;
  Kensington Palace ditto;
  Clarence House ditto or become a government building;
  Highgrove to remain as a country residence of HMK;
  
  The P&P of Wales to move into Windsor Castle;
  Princes Andrew & Edward to move into smaller properties at Windsor;
  Royal Lodge to be leased or open to the public - maybe some kind of museum to do with King George VI & the Queen Mother or something else to bring in revenue;
  Bagshot Park to be given to The National Trust or leased;
  
  Balmoral Castle & Estate to cease being a royal residence, be given to the National Trust for Scotland, be open to the public and most of it to be rewilded as a nature reserve;
  Birkhall to remain as a private residence for HMK;
  
  Sandringham House & Estate to cease being a royal residence, be given to the National Trust, be open to the public and continue as an organic farm;
  One of the smaller Sandringham properties to be retained as a private residence for HMK;
  Anmer Hall to be leased;

 

[JR76]

Royal Lodge to be leased or open to the public - maybe some kind of museum to do with King George VI & the Queen Mother or something else to bring in revenue;
Bagshot Park to be given to The National Trust or leased;

They already are on lease - to Andrew and Edward.

 

[Lilyflo]

They already are on lease - to Andrew and Edward.

I meant leased to other people - A & E could move to smaller properties.

 

[Lilyflo]

I'd go further and give the whole of the Duchy of Cornwall to The National Trust (with covenants to protect existing tenants) and fund The Prince of Wales as part of HMK's funding (which needs modernising).

Frogmore Cottage should be leased privately and Harry compensated for his contribution to it. He could have an apartment made available to him in Windsor Castle or BP for when he visits.

 

[HRHHermione]

I'd go further and give the whole of the Duchy of Cornwall to The National Trust (with covenants to protect existing tenants) and fund The Prince of Wales as part of HMK's funding (which needs modernising).

Frogmore Cottage should be leased privately and Harry compensated for his contribution to it. He could have an apartment made available to him in Windsor Castle or BP for when he visits.

This honestly sounds ridiculous to me. The changes you are proposing are extremely drastic and disruptive.

 

[muriel]

This isn't what I think will happen but a suggestion of what I think should happen for the monarchy to modernise and survive:

• The King & Queen to move into BP as their London residence;
  The Prince & Princess of Wales to have accommodation in BP as their London residence;
  Rooms made available in BP to other working royals when they need to be in London;
  BP to continue being open to the public as much as possible;
  St James' Palace to cease being a royal residence, to be purely ceremonial and be open to the public;
  Kensington Palace ditto;
  Clarence House ditto or become a government building;
  Highgrove to remain as a country residence of HMK;
  
  The P&P of Wales to move into Windsor Castle;
  Princes Andrew & Edward to move into smaller properties at Windsor;
  Royal Lodge to be leased or open to the public - maybe some kind of museum to do with King George VI & the Queen Mother or something else to bring in revenue;
  Bagshot Park to be given to The National Trust or leased;
  
  Balmoral Castle & Estate to cease being a royal residence, be given to the National Trust for Scotland, be open to the public and most of it to be rewilded as a nature reserve;
  Birkhall to remain as a private residence for HMK;
  
  Sandringham House & Estate to cease being a royal residence, be given to the National Trust, be open to the public and continue as an organic farm;
  One of the smaller Sandringham properties to be retained as a private residence for HMK;
  Anmer Hall to be leased;

> Balmoral and Sandringham are privately owned by the monarch, and form a substantial part of the King's wealth. I can't see the property being handed over for nothing. That said, I can see them both being superflous to requirements, and perhaps being opened to the public for large parts of the year.

> Clarence House can be used as a museaum or offices once C&C move to BP after the renovations of BP are complete. It may well be required for George, in time, so it perhaps will need to be kept in reserve.

> In time, KP can be handed back to the government.

> I have no issue with Andrew and Edward living where they do. The both have leases on the properties, acquired in arms length transactions. It is none of our business, IMO, on how and where they live, as long as it is privately funded.