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  #1261  
Old 01-01-2019, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Proves that there ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

Foreign tours are requested government to government and the host country does provide mostly for the main essentials for their visiting guests. When there are certain factors that figure in, for example, President Trump and Air Force One, the cost of the transport is relegated to the US government along with the cost of everything from the Secret Service to the designer M&Ms on board Air Force One. This is a good article that relates to the costs incurred by Trump's short visit. Scroll down to the area talking about Air Force One.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...Force-One.html

For the British royals, what needs to be paid for that the host country doesn't pay for such as wardrobe and other things, the Queen subsidizes expenses through the Sovereign Grant with the exception of the Cambridges and the Sussexes. Theirs are covered by The Prince of Wales.

The British royal family does not accept freebies whatsoever. Everything cost related to them are published in yearly reports which are usually found in this thread.
So whenever the royals go on tours it’s the government who pays for their hotels their meals their transportation? I don’t think I understand what you are trying to say. Sorry. Well one time William went to a wedding somewhere and I think he and his staff came up with meeting the president and basically got the whole thing for free the airfare the accommodations ect... do royals cheat the system like that?
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  #1262  
Old 01-01-2019, 09:50 PM
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Well one time William went to a wedding somewhere and I think he and his staff came up with meeting the president and basically got the whole thing for free the airfare the accommodations ect... do royals cheat the system like that?

Hi Kitty1224, Would you happen to know when and where this wedding took place and which president William reportedly met with before/after the wedding?
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  #1263  
Old 01-01-2019, 10:06 PM
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What I've described in my previous post was how those official foreign tours the British royals take on as representatives of the Queen. Its not up to the royals themselves to pick and choose. A government of country will request a visit to the government of the UK's Foreign Office and then the request given to the Queen, herself, and from there, they decide who fits the bill the best to do the visit. The Queen no longer does any foreign travel or tours so she sends a representative(s).

A lot of times, things will be planned to include more than the "official" representative roles. For example, Harry and Meghan's recent tour of Down Under. Harry was slated to be in Australia even before they announced an engagement because of his involvement with the Invictus Games (which is under the umbrella of the Royal Foundation of the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge and The Duke and Duchess of Sussex). This wasn't part of the "official" tour and in fact, the "official" tour part came about as it made sense if Harry and Meghan were going to be Down Under, why not make the most of it.

In the case you presented of William attending a wedding and also meeting with a president, I think that its more of grabbing an opportunity rather than cheating the system. William is going to (for example) Tasmania for a friend's wedding. Like with Harry and Meghan, it provides an opportunity to also have a "soft diplomacy" meeting with the president of Tasmania. Making the best of the time allowed.

This happens all the time. The finances of it all is worked out. One thing though is that all the British royals consider what they do for the Queen or for their charities and organizations as "work" and are funded as such. They, also, are not above for paying their own way for their own private travels. Everything though that is "work" is itemized and accounted for and made public each year.

One thing too that needs to be remembered is that with these British royals being full time working for the "Firm" and their charities, they do *not* get a paycheck at all from anywhere. They work for free. That's why the Queen has the Sovereign Grant and why The Prince of Wales subsidizes the work the Cambridges and the Sussexes do (along with their office and staff) from his income from the Duchy of Cornwall.

And.....the Queen and The Prince of Wales pay income tax on their private income (the Queen's is the Duchy of Lancaster).

I'm no expert at all of this and there are many here on these forums that know much more than I do and will correct me if I'm wrong on anything. I depend on that. Its how I check off my "learn something new everyday" box.


So... ask yourself a question. How many people do you know that would do the kind of things these royals do without a paycheck? Most people still believe that the British royal family gets money from a Civil List (or in other countries it would be called an apanage). Wouldn't it make sense that they do take advantage of what works to allow them to do what they do? At the end of the day, they work a lot for crown and country and its people but don't charge them a dime.

One more thing. It wouldn't have been William and his staff that would have come up with having a meeting with a president of a country. All of that would have been handled by the Foreign Office (government). Back in 2011 before William's wedding, William wanted to pay a visit to New Zealand and to Australia following the natural disasters in both countries. He couldn't just decide to up and go. He made his wishes known to his grandmother and it was worked out through the Foreign Office that then contacted the required countries and they issued the "invitation" to William. Then it would be an official visit as a representative of the Queen. William, at the time, was still in the RAF flying search and rescue and it just all fit that he would go. I remember this well because of one report that did come out from it. William met with some of the people that were severely affected by the disasters and talking with them, he said "Just call me William".
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  #1264  
Old 01-01-2019, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by TLLK View Post



Hi Kitty1224, Would you happen to know when and where this wedding took place and which president William reportedly met with before/after the wedding?
It was Kenya. I believe he attended a friends wedding.
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  #1265  
Old 01-01-2019, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
What I've described in my previous post was how those official foreign tours the British royals take on as representatives of the Queen. Its not up to the royals themselves to pick and choose. A government of country will request a visit to the government of the UK's Foreign Office and then the request given to the Queen, herself, and from there, they decide who fits the bill the best to do the visit. The Queen no longer does any foreign travel or tours so she sends a representative(s).

A lot of times, things will be planned to include more than the "official" representative roles. For example, Harry and Meghan's recent tour of Down Under. Harry was slated to be in Australia even before they announced an engagement because of his involvement with the Invictus Games (which is under the umbrella of the Royal Foundation of the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge and The Duke and Duchess of Sussex). This wasn't part of the "official" tour and in fact, the "official" tour part came about as it made sense if Harry and Meghan were going to be Down Under, why not make the most of it.

In the case you presented of William attending a wedding and also meeting with a president, I think that its more of grabbing an opportunity rather than cheating the system. William is going to (for example) Tasmania for a friend's wedding. Like with Harry and Meghan, it provides an opportunity to also have a "soft diplomacy" meeting with the president of Tasmania. Making the best of the time allowed.

This happens all the time. The finances of it all is worked out. One thing though is that all the British royals consider what they do for the Queen or for their charities and organizations as "work" and are funded as such. They, also, are not above for paying their own way for their own private travels. Everything though that is "work" is itemized and accounted for and made public each year.

One thing too that needs to be remembered is that with these British royals being full time working for the "Firm" and their charities, they do *not* get a paycheck at all from anywhere. They work for free. That's why the Queen has the Sovereign Grant and why The Prince of Wales subsidizes the work the Cambridges and the Sussexes do (along with their office and staff) from his income from the Duchy of Cornwall.

And.....the Queen and The Prince of Wales pay income tax on their private income (the Queen's is the Duchy of Lancaster).

I'm no expert at all of this and there are many here on these forums that know much more than I do and will correct me if I'm wrong on anything. I depend on that. Its how I check off my "learn something new everyday" box.


So... ask yourself a question. How many people do you know that would do the kind of things these royals do without a paycheck? Most people still believe that the British royal family gets money from a Civil List (or in other countries it would be called an apanage). Wouldn't it make sense that they do take advantage of what works to allow them to do what they do? At the end of the day, they work a lot for crown and country and its people but don't charge them a dime.
Sometimes it’s the foreign office themselves who request a country the royals should visit. Not always the countries itself asking for a royal visit.
Then why did St Andrews foot the bill for William and Catherine for the 2 day NY trip?

Basically what you are saying is that if for example Kate wanted to go to DC to go to a friends babyshower but don’t want to “pay for anything” the staff would come up with an intinerary and make it an official visit?

I must say the royals have it good then the celebrities because the royals don’t have to pay for anything for their “work”. Their private lives though is the same.
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  #1266  
Old 01-01-2019, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Kitty1224 View Post
It was Kenya. I believe he attended a friends wedding.
Thank you. Yes it was in 2016. He did an engagement on behalf of his patronage Tusk Trust and met with the President of Kenya at the request of the British government. At the end of the visit he did attend the wedding of his long time friend Jecca Craig to Jonathan Baillie.



https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/0...n_9565456.html


Quote:
he Duke of Cambridge spent most of his Easter weekend in Africa for both business and pleasure.At the start of his four-day trip, the 33-year-old prince met with the President of Kenya, and spent time at elephant and rhino conservation Tusk Trust, a charity he is involved with.
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  #1267  
Old 01-01-2019, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitty1224 View Post
Sometimes it’s the foreign office themselves who request a country the royals should visit. Not always the countries itself asking for a royal visit.
Then why did St Andrews foot the bill for William and Catherine for the 2 day NY trip?

Basically what you are saying is that if for example Kate wanted to go to DC to go to a friends babyshower but don’t want to “pay for anything” the staff would come up with an intinerary and make it an official visit?

I must say the royals have it good then the celebrities because the royals don’t have to pay for anything for their “work”. Their private lives though is the same.
For one, it wouldn't be Kate's staff that comes up with anything. In order to have anything "official" and paid for by the UK government, it has to be approved by them. It has to be something that would be of value to the diplomatic angle, the aims and ways and means where the government wants to go and all that happy horse hockey.

The difference here too is that celebrities get paid for what they do. They make millions. The royals get paid zilch.

I've added onto my previous post too and explained things more.

This is a fantastic conversation, I think. One thing its made me realize is just how much of these royal's lives are public. Its what we see. We don't get reports on private trips and goings on that these people do in private as its actually their private lives and we *know* the British royals have drawn a thick red line in the sand on that that and hung a HUGE sign saying "Do Not Attempt To Cross".

Y'know, Harry and Meghan could have decided to walk away from it all, built a yurt somewhere in Africa and lived happily ever after if they chose to. This is where the sense of duty comes in. Duty is the main thing with the British royal family and not who pays for what and when.
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  #1268  
Old 01-01-2019, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitty1224 View Post
Sometimes it’s the foreign office themselves who request a country the royals should visit. Not always the countries itself asking for a royal visit.
Then why did St Andrews foot the bill for William and Catherine for the 2 day NY trip?

Basically what you are saying is that if for example Kate wanted to go to DC to go to a friends babyshower but don’t want to “pay for anything” the staff would come up with an intinerary and make it an official visit?

I must say the royals have it good then the celebrities because the royals don’t have to pay for anything for their “work”. Their private lives though is the same.
OK. There's another angle to this. If Kate were to do so in any way, shape or form that would get the government to "fork over the dough" for her going to a baby shower in D.C. there's a downside to it that Kate wouldn't really like too much. It would then be a public event and the Daily Fail would be following her like vampires for the "scoop". I don't think she'd like that too much.
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  #1269  
Old 01-01-2019, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitty1224 View Post
Sometimes it’s the foreign office themselves who request a country the royals should visit. Not always the countries itself asking for a royal visit.
Then why did St Andrews foot the bill for William and Catherine for the 2 day NY trip?

Basically what you are saying is that if for example Kate wanted to go to DC to go to a friends babyshower but don’t want to “pay for anything” the staff would come up with an intinerary and make it an official visit?

I must say the royals have it good then the celebrities because the royals don’t have to pay for anything for their “work”. Their private lives though is the same.

It's not as simple as "a royal wants to do go on a trip for their personal life and therefore makes up a reason to make it an official trip so they don't have to pay for it." It's a lot more complicated than that.


Typically, there is no crossover between personal, private trips, and official ones, for the simple reasons of it makes finances tricky. British royals are even criticized if they leave an official trip to go directly to a personal one or vis versa (it happens sometimes, but is criticized), because of the financial issue.


There definitely are times when a royal says "I want to go to X place" or "I'm going to X place" and it's up to their staff to figure out if a trip is possible, or how to make the most out of a trip. This is what happened when William went to New Zealand and Australia in 2011 (he wanted to go there after the earthquake in New Zealand, and after getting approval and invitations from the governments involved, his staff planned a full tour), and what happened recently with Harry and Meghan's tour (Harry was going to be there for Invictus, and after getting approval and invitations from the governments involved, their staff planned a full tour). These times the bill is paid for by the governments involved (when British royals visit Commonwealth realms, but I would assume that when they're visiting countries that aren't Commonwealth realms, the British government pays)



There are also times, like when William visited Kenya for Jecca Craig, where the government will go "hey, you're going to place X, while you're there can you do this?"William's trip in 2016 was labelled a private one, so in all likelihood he was the one paying for it, not the British government. He met with President Kenyatta in the morning and had a discussion with him, but there's no reason to believe that the government paid for the trip as a whole just for one meeting.


The St Andrews' trip to New York was probably the first example; St Andrews invited the couple to attend a fundraiser and paid for their trip (not an uncommon thing to happen with high profile alumni), and the Cambridges told their staff that they'd be in New York for a few days and asked them to make a mini-tour of it.
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  #1270  
Old 02-03-2019, 01:23 PM
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How Much Is It Worth: First Year Edition
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As there has been much discussion about the Duchess of Sussex’s total for 2018, we have decided to do investigate into what 2 other royals accumulated for clothing during their first year of royal marriage. We selected one royal from the same family (Duchess of Cambridge) and one from a different country (Princess Sofia).
How Much Is It Worth: First Year Edition — UFO No More
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  #1271  
Old 02-03-2019, 01:34 PM
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How Much Is It Worth: First Year Edition

How Much Is It Worth: First Year Edition — UFO No More
This was very interesting, and seems to confirm speculation by other sources.
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  #1272  
Old 02-03-2019, 02:13 PM
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Again, the numbers are greatly skewed by the wedding bracelet and earrings, which many have speculated as gifts from Charles as Kate also debuted a bracelet and dearringn set at some point. I would also like to see the number of engagements conducted. If more engagements are conducted, then obviously more expensive overall.
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  #1273  
Old 02-03-2019, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by jacqui24 View Post
Again, the numbers are greatly skewed by the wedding bracelet and earrings, which many have speculated as gifts from Charles as Kate also debuted a bracelet and dearringn set at some point.
The article discusses that possibility, and provides the number with their cost subtracted:

Quote:
One factor that we have tossed back in forth as we have watched this number climb is that included in this number are her Cartier Reflection Wedding Bracelet and Earrings. The idea has been bounced around that they were gifts, possibly from Prince Charles (our friends at Meghan’s Mirror shared their thoughts on this here), which would see them removed from our tally because we do not include gifts from family members or Government Officials. However because the Palace has not confirmed them to be gifts we left them in. The earrings and bracelet carry a hefty price tag of 206,022€ ($233,000 USD) so if they were indeed gifts, her total spending would be 273,026 € ($286,278 USD).
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Originally Posted by jacqui24 View Post
I would also like to see the number of engagements conducted. If more engagements are conducted, then obviously more expensive overall.
Iluvbertie keeps a detailed count of engagements for the British royals.

British Royal Family Engagements 2018
British Royal Family Engagements 2019
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  #1274  
Old 02-03-2019, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
The article discusses that possibility, and provides the number with their cost subtracted:

Iluvbertie keeps a detailed count of engagements for the British royals.

British Royal Family Engagements 2018
British Royal Family Engagements 2019
My point is, that’s buried deep in one place whereas everything else used the full figures without mentioning this. Especially in the introductions and charts. And I doubt many people that read that article will then go back years and look for the engagement.
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  #1275  
Old 02-03-2019, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by jacqui24 View Post
My point is, that’s buried deep in one place whereas everything else used the full figures without mentioning this. Especially in the introductions and charts. And I doubt many people that read that article will then go back years and look for the engagement.
I read your first comment as referring to the numbers in the posted article itself as "skewed", as I am not familiar with the people you mention.
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  #1276  
Old 05-12-2019, 04:13 AM
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Originally Posted by muriel View Post
I have no doubt that millions of British people are ever so grateful for the millions of dollars M&H bring to the British economy.
In actuality, it's more than likely that many people in Britain and around the world lack knowledge of how much the British monarchy positively impacts the British economy (it's to the tune of billions annually).
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  #1277  
Old 05-12-2019, 05:12 AM
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Originally Posted by MaiaMia_53 View Post
In actuality, it's more than likely that many people in Britain and around the world lack knowledge of how much the British monarchy positively impacts the British economy (it's to the tune of billions annually).
I am a royalist but that does not mean all arguments "they bring billions in" or "they bring a positive vibe to UK Ltd" have any connection with truth.
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  #1278  
Old 05-12-2019, 06:51 AM
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Please note that posts referencing Brexit have been edited or deleted.
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  #1279  
Old 05-12-2019, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc et Pair
I am a royalist but that does not mean all arguments "they bring billions in" or "they bring a positive vibe to UK Ltd" have any connection with truth.
Right, so here are more specifics that provide more verifiable specifics:

https://home.bt.com/lifestyle/money/...11363982445194

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/bu...y-2571849.html

https://www.businessinsider.com/megh...economy-2018-1

http://home.bt.com/lifestyle/money/m...11364067030820
“While the value of the UK economy was put at nearly £57 billion in 2015 (vs the Windsor family's 2015 budget of £35.7 million), Brand Finance estimated that their net contribution to the UK economy for the same period was actually just £1.115 billion. This hardly insignificant figure is worked out after costs such as the Sovereign Grant, security, and upkeep of palaces is taken away… But regardless of whether it's gross or net income, it can't be denied that the royals definitely contribute to the UK economy in more ways than one. The two biggest ways are fairly obvious: Royal Tourism, and The Effect [of the Younger Royals, now including the Cambridges and the Sussexes].”

The current net contribution of the Windsor family to the UK economy has likely increased, especially over the past couple of years.
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Old 05-12-2019, 08:19 AM
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Capitalism vs. Royalty

In Capitalism everything is counted in money, even the value of a royal family.

Personally I think, this way of valueing a royal family is completly useless!

An example: The Danish Royal Family goes back to King Bluetooth, who was in his time rumoured, to be a descendent of the God Odin. So, they were always there, all the way back to the time of the Sagas.

Is that not an assuring thing? It went on and on and on! And god willing it will go on and on and on.

I think, this is the value of royal family: the continuity.

The British Royal Family goes far back too!
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