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  #201  
Old 11-16-2014, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacknch View Post
Ok, well let me try again.

There is indeed no point in applauding a royal representing community and speaking for those who need and deserve attention for their problems. Nonetheless, it was rather a nice thing to happen even if it was pointless.

There are indeed plenty of other things royals could do other than charity work.

There is indeed no need to present trophies to those in luxury for doing the least they can do for other people. Those in luxury must surely deserve nothing as they live better lifestyles than everyone else and should therefore have all that they want or need - a trophy would add nothing to what they already have.

Indeed, they are not sacrificing any of their comfort to do so. Nonetheless, I should imagine if CP Mary worked a double shift on the tills at Netto everyday, the Mary Foundation would probably not exist.
Thank you for your pleasant response! :) - Yes, these presentations create publicity and that creates employment for journos and guys and gals with cameras. That's a good thing, really.

But people who work hard put in long shifts at unpleasant times of the day. I don't think for one second that royals do anything they don't like doing, and they can choose the time for it, I believe.

In the end, Denmark has existed for centuries without Mary and Mary Foundation. Had there not been a Mary foundation there would have been another Foundation, though probably not a Katja Foundation! :)

The numbering is mine and is there for ease in responding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roskilde View Post

1) So let me understand you correctly - because the royals receive the attention they do they should refrain from doing something good?

Of course not. I said nothing of the sort.

2) What do you want the royals to do then?

If I had my way, they would pack their bags! :)

3) In this case, Mary - yes she is a royal, and in this respect, she do gets a lot of attention as ordinary citizens obviously don't get. But because she gets the attention she shouldn't do any thing good for people who need it? Because it's only citizens who do not get attention who can have values and integrity.

I said nothing of the sort. What I did write is still in my posts.

4) It's a very sad attitude IMO.

I don't comment on what I perceive to be other posters' attitudes, because I don't know what their attitudes are. To say that "you have a sad attitude" or similar is a personal put-down, and I will never encourage it. Please don't do it to me.

5) Mary is an intelligent woman, and like you and I, she's very well aware that she, because of her role and position can create a lot of attention on cases which lacking of attention - and this is what she do
and why she is a higly respected public person.

I'm not at all aware that she is what you wrote she is. I don't think so. But I know that she is respected by some but not by others. Whether she is highly respected is debatable, though probably not worth the time.
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  #202  
Old 11-16-2014, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redtulip View Post
The numbering is mine and is there for ease in responding.
discussion is always good; informed discussion is even better. What I am wondering is: now that the Crown Prince couple have been so busy during the months of October and November, it looks like they have no engagements for December. Could/would this mean that they might take holidays and, if so, would they go to Australia? Another question I have, although it does not belong in this thread so that the mods may do what they wish....but now that the Greek king and queen no longer live in London, will HM Queen Margrethe still go on her annual shopping trip to London?
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  #203  
Old 11-17-2014, 12:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gerry View Post
discussion is always good; informed discussion is even better. What I am wondering is: now that the Crown Prince couple have been so busy during the months of October and November, it looks like they have no engagements for December. Could/would this mean that they might take holidays and, if so, would they go to Australia? Another question I have, although it does not belong in this thread so that the mods may do what they wish....but now that the Greek king and queen no longer live in London, will HM Queen Margrethe still go on her annual shopping trip to London?
The calendar is usually updated week to week.
They have been very busy these past few months.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roskilde View Post
So let me understand you correctly - because the royals receive the media exposure they do they should refrain from doing something good?

What do you want the royals to do then? In this case, Mary - yes she is a royal, and in this respect, she do gets a lot of media exposure as ordinary citizens obviously don't get. But because she gets the attention she shouldn't do any thing good for people who need it? Because it's only citizens who do not get media exposure who can have values and integrity?

It's a very sad attitude IMO. Mary is an intelligent woman, who like you and I, is very well aware that she, because of her role and position can create a lot of attention on cases which lacking of attention - and this is what she do. And why she is a very higly respected public person.
I agree
First she was criticized for focusing too much on fashion.
Now she is criticized for focusing on other issues.

IMO Mary is doing a very good job bringing attention to important issues, if people want to give her an award, fine. I loved that she used her speech to talk entirely on the issues.

still the best part was the handsome proud husband by her side
  #204  
Old 11-17-2014, 02:12 AM
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Ten plus years and 4 children later you would think all this stupid nonsense would stop.
  #205  
Old 11-17-2014, 02:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redtulip View Post
It's fine to agree or disagree with anyone.

I wonder what the definition of "impact" is in this context. The fact that someone is photographed and something is written in mags does not equal action taken. There are people around who go and do it without any media exposure. They are the ones with values and integrity.

I can't "honestly" say anything when I don't know what we're referring to. I can say that I honestly think it's something royals think they need to do these days for their purposes, be they what ever. And I totally honestly question the existence of royalty in any country.

"Impact" is the message is splashed over magazines with stylish photos of Mary and her handsome husband :) And if there are people who bother to actually read the article they may even read about the issues Mary received the award for. It seems to me that awareness in any context is better then pure ignorance.
I have to ask you a question Redtulip, is it royals in general that you think should "pack their bags"? Or is it just the DRF?


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  #206  
Old 11-17-2014, 03:10 AM
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I don't think at al that people didn't know about female circumcision until Mary brought it up! It's pretty common knowledge amongst people who follow any media at all, since it's been going on for who-knows-how-long. Mary did definitely not bring anything new to public awareness!
  #207  
Old 11-17-2014, 03:25 AM
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No one denies that in every country, every city there are unnamed individuals who help their fellow citizens without fanfare. Some of them receive recognition but many do not. They help because they care.

There are also well known people (i.e. celebrities, politicians and yes even royals) who do the same.

Sometimes it takes well known figure to bring national or worldwide attention to a particular cause that the local people might have known about years ago. Is it fair? No its not...but as long as the people who need help are getting it...does it really matter?

I, too find the Mary criticism interesting to say the least.
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  #208  
Old 11-17-2014, 03:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redtulip View Post
I don't think at al that people didn't know about female circumcision until Mary brought it up! It's pretty common knowledge amongst people who follow any media at all, since it's been going on for who-knows-how-long. Mary did definitely not bring anything new to public awareness!
So if all the people who follow the media know about female circumcision...what about those who don't follow any media?

You'd be surprised about the number of people who follow the general media are pretty selective about what they follow? In the States and Europe, female circumcision is not our normal reality? Until I learned about it in college, I am pretty sure I tuned it out. It came as a total shock to me, I would have considered myself pretty media savvy.

Its probably not wise to make a general assumption...speaking for everyone and all that.
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  #209  
Old 11-17-2014, 03:40 AM
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I did not speak for everyone at all. I was talking about public awareness. Thats' a general concept. - People who don't follow any media? Now if people don't follow any media they don't know anything about Mary and what she does! Just how do you think people "who don't follow any media" would know she was born?
  #210  
Old 11-17-2014, 03:43 AM
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I am not even sure what you are speaking of in your last post. But there is really no need to reply, as your last post told me all I needed to know.
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  #211  
Old 11-17-2014, 03:47 AM
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I find it alarming that you didn't understand it, but it not necessary to understand it.
  #212  
Old 11-17-2014, 03:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redtulip View Post
I don't think at al that people didn't know about female circumcision until Mary brought it up! It's pretty common knowledge amongst people who follow any media at all, since it's been going on for who-knows-how-long. Mary did definitely not bring anything new to public awareness!
If you were so well informed, did you do something about it?

Everyone knows there is poverty in this world or that children are being sexually abused - but unless someone with a high enough profile puts focus on it, the average Joe and Jolene won't get off their backsides and do something about it.

Danish queens and princesses have been directly involved with charity for at least the better part of some 200 years now, so it isn't something they came up with just because of Mary.
In this globalized world she merely has a higher international profile. Both Mette-Marit and Queen Maxima try and put focus on issues on the international stage and sometimes they co-operate.
Anyway, it's up to us Danes to decide whether the monarchy is worth preserving here, so far there is an overwhelming majority in favour, so they must be doing something right.
The monarchy may be abolished here in DK, if so I doubt very much it will be because of Mary.

Anyway, abolishing the monarchies won't make a difference. What is the traditional role of a first lady in any republic worth mentioning? Working for charity, trying to put focus on various issues. - They are rarely just sitting at home knitting, are they?

Charity, whether you are willing to admit it or not is down to PR, down to putting focus on the issue. Otherwise the organisations wouldn't be so busy getting media time, especially around Christmas. No attention, no money, no help to those in need.

It can be illustrated very clearly:
Two persons, twins, go down to a mall here in DK on the same weekday in two different weeks.
Here they stand with leaflets and try to get donations from people. With one difference:
Cause A has been supported by Mary, who have been in the media advocating the issue and who have also went to the area, where people suffer - with TV-crews. Mary is also on the leaflet being handed out, asking for help.
Cause B does not have the support of a royal, or a celebrity for that matter, no high profile TV-exposure, because according to your argument it's not necessary.
Who will get the most donations? A or B?
Which cause will seem most trustworthy to the average Jolene?

Finally. What should in your opinion, Red Tulip, royals, first ladies and celebs do with their lives, if not working for charity? Because according to my interpretation of your arguments, it won't make a difference anyway.
  #213  
Old 11-17-2014, 04:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gerry View Post
discussion is always good; informed discussion is even better. What I am wondering is: now that the Crown Prince couple have been so busy during the months of October and November, it looks like they have no engagements for December. Could/would this mean that they might take holidays and, if so, would they go to Australia? Another question I have, although it does not belong in this thread so that the mods may do what they wish....but now that the Greek king and queen no longer live in London, will HM Queen Margrethe still go on her annual shopping trip to London?
They might. Or perhaps they'll go visit John Donaldson and Susan moody.
But then again, often events involving the DRF are not listed until shortly before they take place.

I'm absolutely certain QMII will go to London again this year. Partly because it's a tradition for her to do her Christmas shopping at Harrods and partly because she's honorary colonel of a British regiment. (I can never remember the name, it used to be called The Buffs). And I understand that she usually drop by the BRF to say hi, while there.
  #214  
Old 11-17-2014, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redtulip View Post
Thank you for your pleasant response! :) - Yes, these presentations create publicity and that creates employment for journos and guys and gals with cameras. That's a good thing, really.

But people who work hard put in long shifts at unpleasant times of the day. I don't think for one second that royals do anything they don't like doing, and they can choose the time for it, I believe.

In the end, Denmark has existed for centuries without Mary and Mary Foundation. Had there not been a Mary foundation there would have been another Foundation, though probably not a Katja Foundation! :)
You're welcome. I was being ironic in some elements of my post as hopefully will be understood to those that read it.

Yes, if Mary hadn't married Frederik, the Mary Foundation would not have existed although another foundation for smiler causes may well have been created at some point by someone somewhere.
But the reality is as it is, Mary married the heir to the Danish throne and amongst other things the Mary Foundation was created. Whether Mary puts every waking hour into it or not is anyones guess, but she seems sufficiently involved in the charity to have helped or played a part in making it quite successful and someone, somewhere decided that her involvement deserved an award, which she accepted.
As I see it, most people think that's great and well deserved. Some people such as your good self have an alternative view.
I hope we can all move on and look forward to Frederik's and Mary's next current event, which I hope will be very soon indeed!
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  #215  
Old 11-17-2014, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by dee4855 View Post
Ten plus years and 4 children later you would think all this stupid nonsense would stop.
Amen and Hallelujah!You know what the problem is? HRH Crown Princess Mary had the temerity to succeed too well at being crown princess when her detractors expected her to fall flat on her face! How dare this "Australian commoner" think that she cound be crown princess and future Queen of Denmark??!!! Never mind that her husband loves and consistently shows his pride in her (when her detractors expected that he would have divorced her by now!); She has become a dedicated and hard-working crown princess (when her detractors thought that she could never become as popular and respected as the ex-Princess Alexandra/Countess of Frederiksborg); She created the Mary Foundation which is doing valuable work in the Danish society; She has given birth to 4 heirs to the Danish throne; The DRF and the Danish people love and respect her!!!

My goodness!!! CP Mary has succeeded beyond everyone's expectations...maybe even her own! And when you are too happy and successful, there are always those people who want to tear you down! It is a sad indictment of human nature, really!!!
  #216  
Old 11-17-2014, 08:23 AM
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Jacknch, I think it will/would take a lot for monarchies like the Danish to come to an end. Should it ever occur, I doubt it would have much to do with what e.g. Mary and Frederik do (unless they do something totally horrible), but rather, it may be a result of social changes that affect all European countries with monarchies.

As for Mary; I think she does as good/bad/neutral job as any other royal in her position.
It is possible they will have a holiday in Oz round Christmas, and that may be the next "major" event for them? Who knows!

Again, thank you for your pleasant manner towards me, just another poster who may have a different view about some issues. :)
  #217  
Old 11-17-2014, 10:25 AM
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The determination of who should receive an award is done by a committee, who presumably make their selections carefully. I did a brief Google search, and it seems this award spans a large area of achievement. CP Mary uses her organizational skills and connections to bring attention to good causes. Remember, she had a successful career as an accounts manager in advertising and real estate before her marriage. She has put those skills to good use, and used them in the promotion of humanitarian work. Wasn't the Mary Foundation funded by money received as wedding gifts?

In the USA, there was a lot of criticism when President Obama received the Nobel Peace Prize when he had barely begun his first term. But it was the decision of the Nobel Committee - they thought he deserved it. He accepted the award and gave the money to charity.
  #218  
Old 11-17-2014, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacknch View Post
You're welcome. I was being ironic in some elements of my post as hopefully will be understood to those that read it.

Yes, if Mary hadn't married Frederik, the Mary Foundation would not have existed although another foundation for smiler causes may well have been created at some point by someone somewhere.
But the reality is as it is, Mary married the heir to the Danish throne and amongst other things the Mary Foundation was created. Whether Mary puts every waking hour into it or not is anyones guess, but she seems sufficiently involved in the charity to have helped or played a part in making it quite successful and someone, somewhere decided that her involvement deserved an award, which she accepted.
As I see it, most people think that's great and well deserved. Some people such as your good self have an alternative view.
I hope we can all move on and look forward to Frederik's and Mary's next current event, which I hope will be very soon indeed!
perfectly said.
the reality is Mary is in a role where she can bring attention to important issues. and I think she works hard at it.



my favorite pic of the night
https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.n...80eb002e0936a2
  #219  
Old 11-17-2014, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by polyesco View Post
perfectly said.
the reality is Mary is in a role where she can bring attention to important issues. and I think she works hard at it.



my favorite pic of the night
https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.n...80eb002e0936a2
Thanks Polyesco - I'm not so sure it was perfectly said but I hope it was understood. Mary's role in life is a very privileged one by the very nature of her position as a member of the Danish Royal Family. She cannot realistically change it or give it up or live her life differently to what is expected of her. Of-course, she was very lucky to have met Frederik (as indeed anyone would be!) but meet him she did and Crown Princess she became!
Accordingly, she has to make the best of her position and do what she can to have purpose in life as a royal in the current age. I think she is doing an excellent job.
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  #220  
Old 11-17-2014, 10:48 PM
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Several posts have been removed as they contributed little to the discussion.

The mods also request that we please move forward, and not continue going around in circles. If you wish to discuss the merits of royals receiving awards for charity work over "real people", you may create a thread elsewhere or do so via PM.

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