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  #801  
Old 06-22-2014, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Caracciolo View Post
The Queen abdicate, how absurd. How can anybody think such a thing!
People thought exactly the same about a Pope abdicating: how absurd... Or His Majesty Don Juan Carlos de Borbón y Borbón, King of glorious Spain: how absurd. They abdicated nonetheless.

The House of Windsor is more progressive and not at all paralyzed by conventions and traditions, given the fact that many royals divorced and remarried, that the Heir remarried a divorced lady, that royals married "simple" commoner ladies from just around the corner, that the ban royals marrying Catholics is lifted, etc. All this shows that also the British monarchy is moving on and adapting with times. I would not chisel in marble stone that the Queen will never abdicate.
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  #802  
Old 06-22-2014, 05:53 PM
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In 1981, there were some papers requesting that she abdicate in favor of the young.

Did not happen then will not happen now.
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  #803  
Old 06-22-2014, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Queen Camilla View Post
In 1981, there were some papers requesting that she abdicate in favor of the young.

Did not happen then will not happen now.
That had to be at the time of Charles and Di fever as that is the year they were married.

I honestly think that it is both the Queen's and the DoE's level of activity and involvement in the day to day fulfillment of the roles they have and the duties that they carry out that keeps them as young and spry as they currently are. I don't think either of them, for a minute, would give any of this up. It would be as asking them not to breathe.
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  #804  
Old 06-23-2014, 10:14 AM
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The difference with the Spanish and Belgian abdications is of course also King Juan Carlos and King Albert II of the Belgians are suffering serious physical problems, and this for a long time. Anyone whom witnessed the abdication ceremony in the Royal Palace of Madrid will have seen how utterly frail Don Juan Carlos has become.

Queen Elizabeth II is blessed with a good health. Anyone will understand that having constant pain, physical displeasure and a poor condition will put a strain on anyone. All those abdications in the House of Nassau (the Netherlands and Luxembourg) where the Sovereign steps aside on the highest of approval to make a smooth step aside for a younger generation indeed seems total different to the recent abdications in Spain, Belgium and the Vatican.
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  #805  
Old 06-23-2014, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
The House of Windsor is more progressive and not at all paralyzed by conventions and traditions, given the fact that many royals divorced and remarried, that the Heir remarried a divorced lady, that royals married "simple" commoner ladies from just around the corner, that the ban royals marrying Catholics is lifted, etc. All this shows that also the British monarchy is moving on and adapting with times. I would not chisel in marble stone that the Queen will never abdicate.
Yes, the British monarchy may be moving on and adapting with the times, however HM's chief motivation as to whether or not she abdicates is NOT based on traditions and/or conventions. It is based on her personal belief and conviction that she reigns "by the Grace of God" and that her occupation of the throne is a life-long commitment, as evidenced by her now-famous vow. She will leave the throne when they remove her cold dead body from upon it. JMHO.
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  #806  
Old 06-23-2014, 03:19 PM
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The Dutch Kings and Queens are reigning by the grace of God as well (see the concept for every Dutch Act or Royal Decree, below). We may assume that Popes are reigning by the grace of God as well. Apparently they felt it as a grace of God as well to be able to abdicate...

Souce: Montesquieu Institute The Hague: http://www.montesquieu-instituut.nl/...hoofdplaat.jpg
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  #807  
Old 06-23-2014, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
The Dutch Kings and Queens are reigning by the grace of God as well (see the concept for every Dutch Act or Royal Decree, below). We may assume that Popes are reigning by the grace of God as well. Apparently they felt it as a grace of God as well to be able to abdicate...

Souce: Montesquieu Institute The Hague: http://www.montesquieu-instituut.nl/...hoofdplaat.jpg
Yes, I don't think reigning by the grace of God necessarily means one should feel obliged to reign until death. Even the personal vow QE2 made when she was Princess Elizabeth does not preclude reigning all her life, simply dedicating said life to the service of her country, which could be done whether reigning or not.

I think there are more subtle reasons why the Queen will not abdicate and it has nothing to do with the abdication crisis. It is more to do with health, fitness, ability etc. If these fail, then a regency can be enacted, so in any event abdication isn't the only option.

Interestingly, I have have every faith in the idea of a monarch abdicating in order for a younger, more robust, monarch to come to the throne, with new ideas, a fresh outlook etc etc. Obviously all our monarchs for the forceable future will be as old as the hills when they start their reigns, so it will be a very long time indeed before this country sees a younger king or queen again.
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  #808  
Old 06-23-2014, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
The Dutch Kings and Queens are reigning by the grace of God as well (see the concept for every Dutch Act or Royal Decree, below). We may assume that Popes are reigning by the grace of God as well. Apparently they felt it as a grace of God as well to be able to abdicate...

Souce: Montesquieu Institute The Hague: http://www.montesquieu-instituut.nl/...hoofdplaat.jpg
We also have to remember that in all the cases of abdication, it was primarily a personal decision. No one was forced to abdicate nor did they abdicate because they were expected to by such and such a date. We all pretty much know that HM's personal feelings are that she is Queen "by the grace of God" until her death.
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  #809  
Old 06-27-2014, 05:06 PM
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Abdication has been a tradition among Spanish kings since the reign of Emperor Charles V, who abdicated in favour of his son, Philip II. Philip II then abdicated the thrones of the Netherlands in favour of his daughter. The rest of the Habsburg kings had no competent heir to follow them (all being mentally retarded, sickly and/or heavily inbred), so they did not abdicate. Then came the Bourbons in the 18th century, and the abdications became rampant. Philip V, Charles III, Charles IV, Isabella II and Alfonso XIII all abdicated. The only ones who did not abdicate were those who had no son or who died unexpectedly young.

Now compare that history with British history. How many abdications took place there?

You cannot really assume that Juan Carlos's abdication will affect Elizabeth at all. After all, the abdications of his predecessors had no effect on her predecessors.
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  #810  
Old 07-01-2014, 07:01 PM
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^ much as some might wish in order to propel their favorite forward! Long live QEII the greatest asset the British empire will have in this century!
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  #811  
Old 07-10-2014, 11:54 AM
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Why the Queen should retire | Ottawa Citizen
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  #812  
Old 07-10-2014, 12:05 PM
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What a lot of rubbish.
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  #813  
Old 07-10-2014, 12:16 PM
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The Queen will never abdicate. It makes no sense.
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  #814  
Old 07-10-2014, 12:34 PM
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I agree with you both, and I could have given him a good explanation for why she should not abdicate.
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  #815  
Old 07-10-2014, 03:18 PM
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QE II should Not step down.
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  #816  
Old 07-10-2014, 03:28 PM
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I don't think she should abdicate but if gets to the point that she can't carry out her official engagements due to health reasons, then I think she should be allowed to rest and have Charles & Camilla and the Cambridge's take on more. She's nearing 90, her health will likely become an issue more and more.

I would like to see her and the Duchesses of Cornwall and Cambridge officially partner up more though.
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  #817  
Old 07-10-2014, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark143 View Post
QE II should Not step down.
She will not do that, The Queen will never abdicate.
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  #818  
Old 07-10-2014, 05:26 PM
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The Queen will never abdicate. It makes no sense.
I can find lots of sensible reasons for an abdication, so to classify 'it makes no sense' goes a bridge too far. Du moment Her Majesty announces her abdication, it has made sense...

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  #819  
Old 07-10-2014, 06:14 PM
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Times do change and people live a whole lot longer. I, personally, have no idea whether this will affect the queen's thinking. Her son will inherit when he is, probably, in his late 70's. It is how they feel. Three Western Monarchies just changed, but the heirs are youthful. Charles has passed that point.
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  #820  
Old 07-10-2014, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
I can find lots of sensible reasons for an abdication, so to classify 'it makes no sense' goes a bridge too far. Du moment Her Majesty announces her abdication, it has made sense...

I can find many reasons to why she will never abdicate, and it has nothing to do with Prince Charles. I'm sure he's going to be a good king.
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