William and Kate Might Be Closet Artists

[Tweetybird]

I have a liberal arts degree in painting and during art school preferred painting to the art history, which to me, was sort of a mild set of courses, we were required to take. As I have aged and understood the reasons I went to Art School and why I took an interest in Art. My focus on the Art History part grew. And if you don't know, both William and Kate have Art History degrees. And if you love Art, its a wonderful way to learn about history, as so many paintings are about Royals or Greek myths and or religious figures. Which really are a reflection of the historical moment. I believe both William and Kate express their artistic side with their photography. Who knows perhaps William and Kate are both closet Art students and could never follow that; as he was required to go to the military, and she couldn't really have any career other than with her family business, because of the public scrutiny.

How this topic is related to General Royal Conversation is that I saw a PBS show that made me reflect on the separation of England from the Catholic church and becoming only Protestant. Which exacerbated the reasons for all sorts of wars and prejudices that likely were already there but the break gave some sort of reason. I am interested in this because it greatly impacted Art. The Protestant take on art, that showing the body of Christ in crucifixion was profane and that all so called sacred art were solemn portraits of the lead religious figures looking sorta royal. I can be more elaborate on these points at a later time. The Protestant church decorations are more simplified and of course with the changing times the stringent rules on paintings and decorations are no longer used. The Catholic church used decoration that was very emotive and even gory. The giant cross with the pleading Jesus with a crown of thorns in agony on the alter is a mainstay in many catholic churches today. Not a common feature in Protestant churches.

To be continues on the topic of the difference between Art Sacred and Art profane...and how the separation of the Protestant Church and the Catholic church still affects our society today. I have to go run errands. I sure hope my new friends Opis sp and Curryong fun join in.

 

[Osipi]

One thing the British royal family has access to is a multitude of artworks from centuries past. I don't know if either William and/or Kate are that artistically inclined but I do believe its Kate that has the greater interest in art and its history moreso than William. Its one of the reasons Kate is patron of the National Portrait Gallery and I believe both Princess Beatrice and Princess Beatrice of York have degrees in art history.

Perhaps though the one British royal that is the most informed and appreciative of the Royal Collection of artworks is The Prince of Wales. His grandmother installed a love of art into him at a young age and he's quite an accomplished painter himself.

I've always found it fascinating to learn more about religious paintings from the past. Renaissance artwork is renowned for having secret meanings and symbols within the paintings. One of the biggest example in recent times stem from Dan Brown's "The DaVinci Code" and Leonardo DaVinci's "Last Supper".

Here's a good article on a few paintings along these lines.

BBC - Culture - Seven surprising hidden meanings in art

 

[Osipi]

As this is an area for general discussions, it might be prudent to also focus the attention on royals that are artistic from around the globe and not specific royals from a certain country.

I've taken this information from a post that eya has made in regards to Queen "Daisy" Margrethe II of Denmark and her upcoming exhibition of her own artwork. If you ever want to follow an artistic soul, Queen Daisy is most certainly talented and I love her use of color.

The Queen prepares for the exhibition of her work "Adventure Queen" at the Amalienborg Museum in Christian VIII's Palace from 27 September 2018 to 19 May 2019

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bmu8aF5g...danskekongehus

Thanks eya for the information.

 

[Denville]

I don't really see what it has to do with Kate and William. I believe she has a genuine interest in art, but I don't know that he has. I thougtht his degree was geography or something like that? And I think he really was more into the army and if he could, would have been a full time soldier...

 

[Osipi]

William was on the verge of wanting to leave St. Andrews when he switched from geography to art history. I don't think it was particularly an area he was interested in or passionate about but needed something to remain working towards graduating. He switched at the time his friendship with Kate Middleton was just starting to develop and I think that's what saw him through his years at St. Andrews.

 

[Tweetybird]

I appreciate all discussion because it is more fun to have multiple perspectives and this in turn widens our own. Yes, it is true both William and Kate have Art History degrees from St. Andrews. I am not particularly interested in artistic royals per say. What I am interested in is that how Art changed when England became Protestant especially in the church and throughout culture. And Catholic Art is more expressive and passionate somehow. And yes it Art History has everything to do with the Royal Family of England. I'm not curious about royals in general who have desire to create art. I remember reading that Camilla, when Diana died, was trashed in the press and she went into hiding for a year and painted. My interest is how the English Royal family changed Art History in the 1600's when making Protestantism basically the official religion for crowned royals in England. Because up to then Catholics also became heads of state. Thinking of Henry the VIII and being a head of state no pun intended also had his part in this strong independence from the Catholic church. I can elaborate my own self discovery about how Protestantism created its own rules for art while Catholicism went another direction. And it does directly play into modern royals and modern culture. Yes William and Kate have Art History degrees. I don't think people get Art history degrees unless they have a serious interest in Art. As to complete a major in a subject you have to take perhaps as many as 15 classes in the subject even more depending. So you don't do something like that unless you are seriously interested. And if I can elaborate at another time I will discuss more about how the modern royal family today, including such things as Brexit etc are aligned with this isolationism. Although I know nothing about Brexit and could care less about it for me.

 

[Denville]

Ah, I have never been able to get very interested in William.. though I like him better than Harry..
I knew I had a memory of his doing geography. Im surprised though that if he didn't like geography, he didn't have something else (history perhaps) that he might have changed to, rather than art history.. but perhaps if Kate was into it and was encouraging him to stay, he was influenced by her to change ot her subject...

 

[Denville]

I appalso had his part in this strong independence from the Catholic church. I can elaborate my own self discovery about how Protestantism created its own rules for art while Catholicism went another direction. And it does directly play into modern royals and modern culture. Yes William and Kate have Art History degrees. I don't think people get Art history degrees unless they have a serious interest in Art.

I doubt if Will and Kate are that much into the religious aspects of art.. and It seems that William wasnt' all that into Art history anyway and chose it just to find a subject he could do, to stay in college when he had been finding it very difficult. If his girlfriend was doing it, he might have reasoned that he would benefit from her knowledge and they could study togetheter...

 

[Tweetybird]

Art History

From some magazine I read William applied himself to his studies and did very well. And my impression of their early relationship was that he liked her very much but wanted to date other people. And although I am happy they ended up together and everything. I don't think he was that lead on. Not to get an entire degree and do well at it anyway. And Geography is pretty much straight memorizing and not analytical like Art. I am not really into the religious aspects. I am more using that as the language of the Art History that is available. As most art of the time was religious or expensive portraits for government reasons ie marriage. What got me thinking of the topic was that I saw a show on the 1600s in England and realized that was the time that Protestantism was made a requirement for the King of England because before that there are Catholics at least around and in the royal family. King James the IV had a Catholic mother I think. I am more interested and will discuss how Art was different. And its basic Art History classes I am talking about here. I am not trying to be fancy. This has really nothing to do with religion at all its just plain ole Art History there is not other way to use the words I guess instead of Protestant I can say Apple and instead of Catholic I can say Orange. If that would make the Art History part easier to play with.

 

[Denville]

Who is James IV?

 

[Tweetybird]

I am going out to lunch in a second but he was the King of Scotland and was selected because he was a Protestant to be heir to the Crown of England. Due to some very inhumane shenanigans by a bright steady right hand man to the queen named Cecil. I just saw a show on it and my Art History thoughts have been inspired. Just keep in mind this has zero zero zero to do with religion this is truly for me about Art History. And William and Kate are well aware of this history its Art History 101.

 

[Osipi]

From some magazine I read William applied himself to his studies and did very well. And my impression of their early relationship was that he liked her very much but wanted to date other people. And although I am happy they ended up together and everything. I don't think he was that lead on. Not to get an entire degree and do well at it anyway. And Geography is pretty much straight memorizing and not analytical like Art. I am not really into the religious aspects. I am more using that as the language of the Art History that is available. As most art of the time was religious or expensive portraits for government reasons ie marriage. What got me thinking of the topic was that I saw a show on the 1600s in England and realized that was the time that Protestantism was made a requirement for the King of England because before that there are Catholics at least around and in the royal family. King James the IV had a Catholic mother I think. I am more interested and will discuss how Art was different. And its basic Art History classes I am talking about here. I am not trying to be fancy. This has really nothing to do with religion at all its just plain ole Art History there is not other way to use the words I guess instead of Protestant I can say Apple and instead of Catholic I can say Orange. If that would make the Art History part easier to play with.

I found a pretty good article that really tells a lot about just how the English Reformation worked. It didn't happen overnight and it was a whole lot of politics involved. I'm not overly literate on the subject but found the article of interest.

BBC - History - The English Reformation

As far as art history, I think that's a topic for elsewhere as unless a topic pertains to the subject of royalty and royals and such, they don't have a place in the royal subforums. Perhaps in the Member's Corner area for those that want to discuss how Protestantism changed religious art over time. ?

 

[Tweetybird]

Art majors

The topic is more about our interests one being Art History. List of topics possible. Art History and the royal family. Art Majors how did you become an Art major. Please NO specific reformation topic. Blah interested in general about how different cultures in Europe art developed. William and Kate at university. How we chose our majors or our interests. Can it be a wider discussion without a specific date in mind. Its a site for General discussion. Cant it be more General. And i enjoyed the comments about artistic royals. Protestant reformation sounds horrid. Like the dungeon thread. If its only that. You seemed to pounce on that topic. Well what are your interests and how where they effected by the protestant reformation might be a tad less dungeony.

 

[Mbruno]

William was on the verge of wanting to leave St. Andrews when he switched from geography to art history..

I believe it was the other way around, i.e. he switched from art history to geography. I am pretty sure his degree is in geography.

I am going out to lunch in a second but he was the King of Scotland and was selected because he was a Protestant to be heir to the Crown of England. Due to some very inhumane shenanigans by a bright steady right hand man to the queen named Cecil. I just saw a show on it and my Art History thoughts have been inspired. Just keep in mind this has zero zero zero to do with religion this is truly for me about Art History. And William and Kate are well aware of this history its Art History 101.

I believe you meant James VI of Scotland (or James I of England), who succeeded Elizabeth I and was indeed a Protestant. James IV was his great-grandfather, who married Henry VIII's sister, Margaret Tudor, and was a Catholic

 

[Tweetybird]

People Magazine

I read William and Kate have Art History degrees. All you professional googleologists get on it. What I mean to communicate is I like ORIGINAL thought. Reading and communicating your own ideas with the added info. Wow poor William cant even be an Art History major much less an artist.

 

[Osipi]

I stand corrected. Thanks Mbruno. William graduated in 2005 with a 2:1 degree in geography. Kate is the one that holds a degree in art history. As noted beforehand, Princess Eugenie of York holds an art history degree. I mistakenly thought Princess Beatrice did but she does not.

Actually there is a wonderful exhibition going on now with some of Charles' favorite pieces on exhibition at Buckingham Palace. I'd love to be able to attend and browse through some of the works of art on exhibit.

https://news.sky.com/story/prince-charles-art-collection-goes-on-display-11442308

We do need to keep it royal in here.

 

[Tweetybird]

Hidden artist

Wow poor William had to really hide that interest. Anyhoo makes sense. I will elaborate about more about Art History place in the modern Royalty.and like the rulers everywhere it wont make me quit Art History mid study because it brings up their issues for what a man is what a king is what an artist is. Im sad now he abandoned his first interest. For whatever reason.

 

[Osipi]

If you really want to get to know a British royal that is not only artistic but very knowledgeable about the arts and supports quite a few organizations and patronages dedicated to the arts, check into reading more on The Prince of Wales. Charles, I believe prefers the medium of watercolors.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...arles-paintings-millions-art-charity-monarchy

The Duke of Edinburgh also paints and has quite an eye for design.

https://www.royalcollection.org.uk/...e-duke-of-edinburgh-as-an-artist-and-designer

Wow poor William had to really hide that interest. Anyhoo makes sense. I will elaborate about more about Art History place in the modern Royalty.and like the rulers everywhere it wont make me quit Art History mid study because it brings up their issues for what a man is what a king is what an artist is. Im sad now he abandoned his first interest. For whatever reason.

Its quite possible too that the reason William chose to pursue courses in Art History stems from the realization that he will one day be King and should know more about the art in the Royal Collection. I think I'd go bonkers if I had total access to everything the Royal Collection holds and would really like to know the provenance of all the artwork it contains. Its massive.

 

[Tweetybird]

Motivations are really private. Diana didn't go to university as was normal for upper class women not to attend. Diana was the last generation of upper class woman to not attend university. Anyhoo I will write later as short as possible about Art and Royals. And how we develope serious interests. And how Art History including English Art history influenced the English Royals. Maybe this topic needs to be put in the members corner. So it can be more open

 

[Denville]

Wow poor William had to really hide that interest. Anyhoo makes sense. I will elaborate about more about Art History place in the modern Royalty.and like the rulers everywhere it wont make me quit Art History mid study because it brings up their issues for what a man is what a king is what an artist is. Im sad now he abandoned his first interest. For whatever reason.

why did he have to "hide the interest?" It sounds like he found university level study of art history more challenging than he expected and wanted to swtich to something else. He may still have an interest in art history... though I don't know if he has or not. Just because he gave it up at University does not mean he lost interest in it. I gather he wasn't too happy at Uni at first.. and if his subject was heavy going, he may have wanted to swtich to something he found easier..

 

[Denville]

If y


Its quite possible too that the reason William chose to pursue courses in Art History stems from the realization that he will one day be King and should know more about the art in the Royal Collection. I think I'd go bonkers if I had total access to everything the Royal Collection holds and would really like to know the provenance of all the artwork it contains. Its massive.

Or possibly he thought it was a relatively easy subject. He may have had a mild interest in it and thought it would be a good choice.. but found that it was harder than he expected..and he went over to Geography.

 

[Tweetybird]

Its hard to guess motivation why someone changes majors. I was very interested in History but ended up having an Art degree If needed this thread can be moved to the members site or it can stay here. I will elaborate more tomorrow on my ideas of the differences in Art regarding the English royals and other countries when I can type faster as my kid has the computer and im texting from my phone. Just a few random thoughts. Diana used to refer to the royal family as the Germans. And its common for royalty to marry from other cultures to create alianses. And a side note Pippa got her bachelors in English literature.

 

[Tweetybird]

On the show i watched it said his nother was catholic he was considered protestant. I got williams major wrong kinda and i could be wrong at this. Drat public television.

 

[Denville]

Sorry who are you talking about? If it is James I, he was a Protestant but his mother was Mary queen of Scots and an ardent Catholic.
as for WIlliam, I have read that he struggled at Univeristy, at first and thought of leaving. But Kate and others persuaded him to stick it out. So I assume that he may have felt the subject of Art History was more difficult than he expected.. and possibly his brain is more geared to science subjects, so he changed...

 

[Mirabel]

I recall reading that William was not happy at first, and wanted to switch to Cambridge (where Charles went).

The RF thought leaving a Scottish for an English university would be bad PR.

Kate said William should try changing majors, and said if he still wanted to switch after that, she would go with him.

(At least, that's the way I recall it).

 

[Denville]

I recall reading that William was not happy at first, and wanted to switch to Cambridge (where Charles went).

The RF thought leaving a Scottish for an English university would be bad PR.

Kate said William should try changing majors, and said if he still wanted to switch after that, she would go with him.

(At least, that's the way I recall it).

But IIRC William settled for Scotland because It was far away and he hoped it would keep the press off his heels..
I don't know why he was unhappy at St Andrews, but I imagine some of it was that he found his subject was more difficult than he had originally expected and was struggling.. I don't know if perhaps he found Scotland a bit lonely or he just wasn't mad about college life in itself and felt that he had made a mistake and should have gone straight into the army..? I thinkk it would not have looked good if he switched universities or just quit Uni altogether, he'd look like a quitter..

 

[Rudolph]

I have no idea if William was unhappy at school. I think most of it is just tabloid gossip. He ended up with an upper second class degree. Good enough to get him into graduate school had he wanted to go. There’s already a thread I think about harry and William’s education.

 

[Denville]

I've never followed William much as he is pretty boring.. but I think there was some definite stories about his not liking college much at first and considering leaving. I can't see that this would be the sort of thing the tabloids were likely to make up, its hardly scandalous... so I'd guess there's some truth in it. He is I assume reasonably intelligent, so if he applied hinself and had a subject he liked, I assume he was capable of getting a degree...

 

[Ista]

If it is true that William thought about leaving, he'd be in good company--it's hardly something scandalous. Many university students find they are in the wrong major and do better after they switch to something more interesting, or academically more manageable.

 

[Denville]

If it is true that William thought about leaving, he'd be in good company--it's hardly something scandalous. Many university students find they are in the wrong major and do better after they switch to something more interesting, or academically more manageable.

No its hardly scandaluos, but if he did switch unis, or give up entirely In his first year, he would problaby look rather a quitter, not willing to try very hard at things... So I'd imagine the RF were not keen on the idea and probably encouraged him to keep on