Titles and Styles of Harry, his Future Wife and Children

[Sunnystar]

The problem I see with Daughters able to inherit the title, is the ability of a woman to have children by a multitude of men, if she so wishes. Would we then see the eldest child named Viscount Winston - Smythe - Rumbold - Chalmondley and the next Marlborough - Grosvenor - Harringdon - Bloome? I hate to admit it but following the male line does in some ways make sense.

I'm a bit confused... Men can have children by a multitude of women, if they so wish, also. Granted, if they are married to the women, the children usually bear the man's surname, but that's not a given, never has been through history. There are plenty of instances where a family's surname has changed when a woman with money married the man with the title. If the family name is that important, then include a stipulation when changing the LPs that the heir must keep the family name, regardless of gender. I've never been a raging feminist but the arguments against eldest daughters inheriting titles seem rather chauvinistic and quite unfair to women in general.

 

[Myself1995]

It'll be interesting to see if Harry's children have titles, or if he goes the route of Princess Anne and asks they don't have titles.

 

[Skydragon]

I'm a bit confused... Men can have children by a multitude of women, if they so wish, also. Granted, if they are married to the women, the children usually bear the man's surname, but that's not a given, never has been through history.

The only recognised legitimate heirs are those born within wedlock, or if the parents at least marry. Many Dukedoms have been lost simply because there was no male heir. There are very few Dukedoms that have passed to the daughter and as a consequence, the title has died out.

 

[Furienna]

I'm a woman myself, and in general, I see equality as a good thing. But this is about very old traditions. And my opinion is, that a title should only go to a female, if she doesn't have a brother, who can inherit it. That's just how I feel about it. However, Beatrice or Eugenie should be able inherit the dukedom of York, as they don't have a brother.

 

[Madame_Deficit]

I think Beatrice or Eugenie should inherit the dukedom of york, but I read somewhere that the title is reserved for the second son of the monarch so I think Prince Harry will be the next duke of york when Charles is king

 

[Skydragon]

I'm a woman myself, and in general, I see equality as a good thing. But this is about very old traditions. And my opinion is, that a title should only go to a female, if she doesn't have a brother, who can inherit it. That's just how I feel about it. However, Beatrice or Eugenie should be able inherit the dukedom of York, as they don't have a brother.

I am an the eldest and a woman, much as I hate to admit it, I can see the reasons to keep the system as it is, with alterations made solely for the succession to the throne.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I think Beatrice or Eugenie should inherit the dukedom of york, but I read somewhere that the title is reserved for the second son of the monarch so I think Prince Harry will be the next duke of york when Charles is king

Harry can't become Duke of York while Andrew lives.

Andrew is currently only 49 and will probably live another 30 years or so.

Harry won't be Duke of York for the simple reason that is uncle will hold that title for so many years yet.

In addition, if Andrew was to remarry and have a son that son would inherit the York title and it would eventually move out of the royal family.

 

[Lady Ann]

I am sorry do you mean if Andrew remarries and has a son, he and then his son would keep the Duke of York title and it would not revert back to the crown???? I did not know this. Poor Harry what do you think they might make him in lou of Duke of YorK ? Edward is said to have been promised DOE when his father Passes. or wil that revert back to the crown too?

 

[Iluvbertie]

If Andrew has a legitimate son then that son, and his subsequent sons would take the York title - most definitely in the same way that the Kent and Gloucester titles will cease to be held by HRHs in the next generation. The LPs that created Andrew as Duke of York stated that it would be inherited by 'heirs male' so any legitimate son would be able to inherit the title (assuming that Andrew would remarry and have a son - both of which seem remote but not impossible).


When Edward married it was announced that the intention was that when the title reverted to the crown then it would be recreated for him. That assumes that it does revert to the crown and isn't inherited by Harry with no chance of it reaching Edward. Under the existing LPs the Edinburgh title will go to Charles on the death of Philip but.... if Charles and William die, before Philip, leaving a legitimate daughter for William then Harry would inherit the title directly and it wouldn't be available for regrant to Edward. In all likelihood what will happen is that Philip will die and Charles will inherit the Edinburgh dukedom in the normal course of events. The Queen will then die and Charles will become King meaning that the Edinburgh title will merge with the crown. The other most likely scenario is that The Queen dies, Charles becomes King, Philip dies and thus the Edinburgh title merges with the crown and is available for regrant for Edward. In addition, if Charles, William, Harry and Andrew (without additional legitimate issue) all predecease the Queen and Philip then Beatrice becomes Queen and Edward inherits all of his father's titles and no regrant is needed. Beatrice can't inherit the titles as she is female but she can become Queen.

 

[Warren]

The discussion of non-royal peerages has been moved to the British Nobility thread.

 

[Warren]

The discussion of the York, Gloucester and Kent ducal titles together with the Duke of Edinburgh question (which was asked and answered once again just two weeks ago) have been moved to the Royal Dukes and Ducal Titles thread.

 

[lyndaW]

Prince Harry - present & future Titles

When/or if Charles becomes King, William will assume many of Charles former titles.
As Harry is the Spare, will he also get new/additional Titles??

 

[Royal Fan]

I Can Imagine Prince Henry Duke of Sussex

 

[Sereta]

I hope they come up with another one. I don't really like Duke of Sussex. To me Sussex sounds too similar to Wessex.

 

[Warren]

When/or if Charles becomes King, William will assume many of Charles former titles.
As Harry is the Spare, will he also get new/additional Titles??

Charles becoming King won't bring any additional titles to Prince Harry. Harry will (most probably) by then have the Dukedom created for him immediately prior to his wedding and that will be it - no bonuses. He and his family will be known thereafter by that ducal title and 'of Wales' will become the preserve of William and his family.

 

[Iluvbertie]

repeatOf course on Charles becoming King both William and Harry will be The Prince William and The Prince Harry - with the capital T on the to indicate that they are the children of the monarch.

 

[lyndaW]

Would Harry be allowed to marry Chelsey before William married ??

 

[Lumutqueen]

Would Harry be allowed to marry Chelsey before William married ??

Of course, there would be no reason why he couldn't.
Prince Joachim married before his elder brother Prince Frederik.

 

[Sereta]

It's only the Swedish monarchy that prefers the eldest marry first. Also Princess Anne married before her older brother Prince Charles did.

 

[Lumutqueen]

It could if they wanted to happen.
I think Harry's kids will be an HRH.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Under the 1917 LPs Harry's children won't automatically be HRH in the present reign and as it is highly likely that Harry will be a father during the Queen's reign I can see her not issuing new LPs for Harry and thus they will start life as Lord or Lady and I can see Harry then keeping them with that title, ala Louise and James, who after all are male line grandchildren of the monarch, - the position that Harry's children will have when Charles is king.

Of course if Charles predeceases the Queen then Harry's children won't ever be entitled to HRH without a change to the 1917 LPs, which I can't see happening unless it is to restrict it further.

It is clear to me on this side of the world that many Britain's would prefer to see the RF reduced in number and Harry's kids would be the obvious ones to miss out.

 

[Lumutqueen]

Well on my side of the world i don't think many people have an opinion how many royals have HRH's.
I don't see Harry being a rather in the Queens reign. Thats my opinion of course, but i don't think he'll have kids until late 30's and touch word i don't think the Queen will last that long.
But Harry might surprise me and many in 6 months and have kids then.
The Queen might surprise me aswell.
I don't see that it's fair that Harry's children should go without titles. There grand-father will be the reigning king at some point.

 

[Sister Morphine]

Harry's children will be HRH when Charles is King and when William is King. I too don't think Harry will marry and have children while the Queen is still the Queen, so it's a moot point, I think.

Yes, currently the only people entitled to the HRH are the children of the monarch, their wives, male-line grandchildren AND the children of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales. So that's Charles, Anne, Andrew, Edward, Camilla, Sophie, William, Harry, Beatrice, Eugenie, Louise (legally, though not styled as such) and James (same as his sister). William is not married and has no children, but if he were to marry and have children during his grandmother's reign, they would be entitled to the HRH.

 

[Westminster]

What makes you so sure that Harry's children will be HRH when Charles is king? Harrys children would be the kings grandchildren. Just like Peter and Zara Phillips and Edwards children Louise and James who are the Queens grandchildren and no HRH's.

Though I would like to see Harrys children as HRHs, Princes and Princesses (like the Kents and Gloucesters) - I do not believe that they will handle it that way nowadays.

 

[Sister Morphine]

Because 1917 Letters Patent decreed that male-line grandchildren of the monarch are to be styled HRH and Prince/Princess of Great Britain.

Peter and Zara Philips are female-line grandchildren of the monarch, and therefore have no style/title. Their father declined an earldom upon marriage to their mother, if he hadn't they would be Lady Zara Philips and Lord Peter Philips.

Edward and Sophie chose to have their children styled as the children of an earl, although legally they are Princess Louise of Wessex and Prince James of Wessex until Letters Patent from the Queen (or future monarchs) say otherwise. When they're 18, they may choose to use their legal titles or they may choose to remain Lord/Lady. It's up to them at that point.

 

[Westminster]

Oh, I didn't know about the 1917 Letters Patent! Interesting! Thank you for the information, Sister Morphine. A bit confusing.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Yes, currently the only people entitled to the HRH are...

You left off TRH The Dukes of Gloucester and Kent and spouse, Prince Michael and Princess Michael and Princess Alexandra who are all male line grandchildren of George V.

The precedent set by Prince Edward in not having his children styled that way and the criticism of Beatrice and Eugenie for having it when other grandchildren of the monarch don't have it suggests to me that Harry's children, despite the 1917 LPs won't have the HRH to have the privacy that Louise and James enjoy rather than the very public upbringing that William and Harry had.

The British public won't to downsize the RF, the RF have reportedly discussed reducing the size of the RF and Harry's kids are the obvious ones to not have it. As there are reports that the Royal Family, including Charles, are trying to cut down the size of the RF (the Way Ahead Group has proposed it and it was from this discussion that the suggestion was made to strip Beatrice and Eugenie of their HRHs but Andrew resisited) I can see new LPs, or just announcements being made with Harry's children not having HRH. My opinion of course based on lots of reading about things like the Way Ahead Group and their ideas for the future of the RF.

 

[Lumutqueen]

I doubt Harry will get a dukedom after his marriage, more like an Earldom.
Can he hold both an earldom and a dukedom?

 

[AshleyAthena]

I doubt Harry will get a dukedom after his marriage, more like an Earldom.
Can he hold both an earldom and a dukedom?

Sort of. When you get a title you usually also get "subsitary titles" for your sons to use. For example-the Duke of Gloucester has two subsitary titles, both in use as he has a son (the Earl of Ulster) and grandson (Baron Culloden). The Earl of Wessex has one subsidary title, Viscount Severn which is used by his son. Usually a duke gets three titles total, and anything lesser, one.
So Harry could be Duke of Cambridge, Earl Balmoral, and Baron Sandringham, for example.

 

[Lumutqueen]

Well what I mean was, Can he be created Earl of wherever, then upon his brothers ascent to the throne can he also be created Duke of somewhere else?

I understand about subsiduary titles.