Titles and Styles of Harry, his Future Wife and Children

[samgee]

can two people have titles over the same place? for example could there be both a duke of clarence and earl of clarence??

 

[ysbel]

A lot of the current dukedoms were at one time earldoms: i.e., Duke of Sutherland (was Earl of Sutherland) Duke of Marlborough (was Earl of Marlborough) but to my knowledge there has never been a dukedom and an earldom with the same name before as in a Duke of Clarence and Earl of Clarence at the same time.

 

[HRH Kimetha]

He could receive an earldom (i.e. Earl of Truro) for now since he is very close to becoming The Duke of Cornwall given the reality of The Queen's age.

I thought I read he and she would become Duke/Duchess of Cambridge or was that Clarence?

 

[Warren]

I thought I read he and she would become Duke/Duchess of Cambridge or was that Clarence?

The Daily Mail claimed last week that Cambridge was the go, but no source was quoted.

 

[branchg]

I doubt The Queen is prepared to approve a marriage for William at this point, much less talk about his titles when he does marry.

It's all speculation in the press.

 

[crisiñaki]

The Daily Mail claimed last week that Cambridge was the go, but no source was quoted.

Daily Mail Warren?, I'm dissapointed...

 

[PrincessKLS2007]

What would be the correct title of Prince William future wife?

 

[Madame Royale]

Well, if William wasn't already Prince of Wales in his inherent right by the time he is married, his wife would assume the style and titles associated to him thus far. And so becoming.

HRH The Princess William (Arthur Philip Louis) of Wales.

The lady would of course be referred to as Princess xxxxxxxxx, but she is (as have all been) a Princess of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland solely on the conditions of her marriage.

If William has already succeeded to the Princely title, his wife shall again take on all styles and titles associated to her husband. Thus becoming.

Her Royal Highness The Princess William, The Princess of Wales and Countess of Chester, Duchess of Cornwall, Duchess of Rothesay, Countess of Carrick, Baroness Renfrew, Lady of the Isles, Princess of Scotland

 

[tundra]

Her Royal Highness The Princess William, The Princess of Wales and Countess of Chester, Duchess of Cornwall, Duchess of Rothesay, Countess of Carrick, Baroness Renfrew, Lady of the Isles, Princess of Scotland

Is the Countess of Chester linked with the POW title? Countess of Carrick is listed separately.

 

[Elspeth]

Yes, Prince of Wales and Earl of Chester is a package deal.

 

[branchg]

She wouldn't be HRH The Princess William of Wales because he is not a son of the Sovereign. She would be HRH Princess William, Duchess of Something, assuming The Queen granted him a dukedom upon marriage.

Once Charles becomes the Sovereign, William automatically becomes Duke of Cornwall, et al. So his wife is never HRH The Princess William, she is always HRH The Duchess of Cornwall until he is created Prince of Wales and Earl of Chester.

 

[branchg]

What would be the correct title of Prince William future wife?

If William married while The Queen still reigned, his wife would be HRH Princess William of Wales. If granted a peerage upon marriage (very likely), his wife would be styled after his peerage (i.e. HRH The Duchess of Clarence).

If he marries once Charles is King, then his wife becomes Duchess of Cornwall and Princess of Wales.

 

[Madame Royale]

She wouldn't be HRH The Princess William of Wales because he is not a son of the Sovereign. She would be HRH Princess William, Duchess of Something, assuming The Queen granted him a dukedom upon marriage.

Once Charles becomes the Sovereign, William automatically becomes Duke of Cornwall, et al. So his wife is never HRH The Princess William, she is always HRH The Duchess of Cornwall until he is created Prince of Wales and Earl of Chester.

So please tell me where I have been misinformed (except for my use of 'the')? As far as I'm aware, all I have stated is true and actual

 

[BeatrixFan]

Well, when William marries - if he remains HRH Prince William - his wife will be HRH Princess William of Wales. If he is created a Duke, she will become HRH The Duchess of X. And then her title changes with the titles he racks up.

 

[Madame Royale]

Well, when William marries - if he remains HRH Prince William - his wife will be HRH Princess William of Wales. If he is created a Duke, she will become HRH The Duchess of X. And then her title changes with the titles he racks up.

But all this (with exception to misusing 'the') I have noted BeatrixFan

 

[BeatrixFan]

Yup. I was giving you my best impression of a parrot.

 

[Madame Royale]

Yup. I was giving you my best impression of a parrot.

And you do it so well hehe

 

[banda_windsor]

I think, as long as Queen Elizabeth II still alive, William possibly will hold a title of the Duke of Clarence. This title used by the Late Prince Albert Victor, eldest son of King Edward and Queen Alexandra. He was the second in line to the throne at that time, because his father was a Prince of Wales.

So if it's true William and his wife will be called
"HRH Prince and Princess, The Duke and Duchess of Clarence"

But once The Prince of Wales become a King, I think William will immedietly become the new Prince of Wales, Duke of Cornwall and Earl of Chester, Duke of Rothesay, Earl of Carrick, Baron of Renfrew, Lord of the Isles, Prince and Great Steward of Scotland.

Well, that's my guess...

 

[Henri M.]

Four dukedoms is a bit too much

I think, as long as Queen Elizabeth II still alive, William possibly will hold a title of the Duke of Clarence. This title used by the Late Prince Albert Victor, eldest son of King Edward and Queen Alexandra. He was the second in line to the throne at that time, because his father was a Prince of Wales.

So if it's true William and his wife will be called
"HRH Prince and Princess, The Duke and Duchess of Clarence"

But once The Prince of Wales become a King, I think William will immedietly become the new Prince of Wales, Duke of Cornwall and Earl of Chester, Duke of Rothesay, Earl of Carrick, Baron of Renfrew, Lord of the Isles, Prince and Great Steward of Scotland.

Well, that's my guess...

Unlikely.
In a very foreseeable future Prince William will become the most titled Peer of the United Kingdom. If Prince Philip dies before The Queen, Prince Charles will become Duke of Edinburgh besides his Dukedoms of Cornwall and Rothesay.

In an unlucky situation Prince William (in your scenario Duke of Clarence) even can become Duke of Cornwall, Duke of Rothesay, Duke of Edinburgh and Duke of Clarence. That makes him holding 4 dukedoms. I'm sure this will not be the intention of the Court.

 

[Madame Royale]

Unlikely.
In a very foreseeable future Prince William will become the most titled Peer of the United Kingdom. If Prince Philip dies before The Queen, Prince Charles will become Duke of Edinburgh besides his Dukedoms of Cornwall and Rothesay.

In an unlucky situation Prince William (in your scenario Duke of Clarence) even can become Duke of Cornwall, Duke of Rothesay, Duke of Edinburgh and Duke of Clarence. That makes him holding 4 dukedoms. I'm sure this will not be the intention of the Court.

The Dukedom of Edinburgh is already 'reserved' for HRH The Prince Edward, Earl of Wessex upon Prince Philip's demise (may good health proceed him).

 

[Princess Robijn]

The Dukedom of Edinburgh is already 'reserved' for HRH The Prince Edward, Earl of Wessex upon Prince Philip's demise (may good health proceed him).

Charles as the eldest son, wil inherit the Dukedom of Edinburgh, if he becomes King it will merge with the crown, he than can recreate it, but if Charles never becomes King, thisis what can happen:

Phillip dies, Charles becomes Duke of Edinburgh, Charles Dies, (Queen hasn't died) William becomes Duke of Edinburgh.

Later on, after William becomes King, he can choose to recreate the Duke of Edinburgh titel for the Earl of Wessex

So, if William gets say the Duke of Clarence title, it is POSSIBLE for him too at one point hold 4 dukedoms!

 

[Madame Royale]

Charles as the eldest son, wil inherit the Dukedom of Edinburgh, if he becomes King it will merge with the crown, he than can recreate it, but if Charles never becomes King, thisis what can happen:

Phillip dies, Charles becomes Duke of Edinburgh, Charles Dies, (Queen hasn't died) William becomes Duke of Edinburgh.

Later on, after William becomes King, he can choose to recreate the Duke of Edinburgh titel for the Earl of Wessex

So, if William gets say the Duke of Clarence title, it is POSSIBLE for him too at one point hold 4 dukedoms!

Oh, I see, yes..Charles shall initially inherit his fathers title and when he becomes King it shall merge with the crown.

However, I thought it was announced at the time of Edward's wedding that it is intended he shall 'eventually' inherit his father's Dukedom. Charles having to re-create a new one?

 

[Warren]

But once The Prince of Wales become a King, I think William will immedietly become the new Prince of Wales, Duke of Cornwall and Earl of Chester, Duke of Rothesay...Well, that's my guess...

The moment that Charles becomes King then William, as the eldest son and heir of the Sovereign, immediately and automatically becomes Duke of Cornwall. He does not, however, become Prince of Wales until such time as the Sovereign creates him so. This could take weeks, months or years; it will be up to King Charles to decide the timing.

However, I thought it was announced at the time of Edward's wedding that it is intended he shall 'eventually' inherit his father's Dukedom. Charles having to re-create a new one?

Yes, Edinburgh will pass to Charles on his father's death. When Charles becomes King, or is King, Edinburgh will automatically merge with the Crown and has to be re-created as a "new" Dukedom for Edward.

 

[Henri M.]

The moment that Charles becomes King then William, as the eldest son and heir of the Sovereign, immediately and automatically becomes Duke of Cornwall. He does not, however, become Prince of Wales until such time as the Sovereign creates him so. This could take weeks, months or years; it will be up to King Charles to decide the timing.

Yes, Edinburgh will pass to Charles on his father's death. When Charles becomes King, or is King, Edinburgh will automatically merge with the Crown and has to be re-created as a "new" Dukedom for Edward.

Indeed. 100% correct.

Whatever will happen, Prince William once will become one of Britain's most titled Peers. He simply has to wait and time will do its work.

That is not the case for his younger brother Prince Henry (Harry). It lies more at had that he will be created Duke of Clarence.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

Indeed. 100% correct.

Whatever will happen, Prince William once will become one of Britain's most titled Peers. He simply has to wait and time will do its work.

That is not the case for his younger brother Prince Henry (Harry). It lies more at had that he will be created Duke of Clarence.

I don't think the queen will create a dukedom for Harry, even once he marries. The queen simply can't create a dukedom for Harry as long as William does not yet have one of his own. But why, as other members explained here, should William get his own dukedom when he will inherit his father's titles anyway one day? So I guess it'll be Princes William and Harry (Henry) of Wales till Charles succeeds to the throne, then William will become Prince of Wales and Harry will get his own dukedom. Just my idea, of course.

 

[Frothy]

Her Majesty should really consider letting Kate be Princess William.

A title like that gives less power to the woman in terms of public perception. Her whole title will be demonstrably predicated on her husband's status. Titles matter in public terms. We have had problems with about to be divorced princesses. If Kate was known as Princess William, she'd be in less of a position to demand to keep her titles after a divorce. She would in terms of PR just be a less powerful force than if she's the Duchess of Clarence or whatever.

Incidentally, if Kate was HRH Princess William of Wales and then they got divorced, what would her title be then? I've always wondered this about Lady John Smiths. Would it be "Kate, Princess William of Wales" or "Susan, Lady John Smith"?

 

[Henri M.]

Kate will be Princess William

Her Majesty should really consider letting Kate be Princess William.

Like Diana was HRH The Princess Charles and Camilla is HRH The Princess Charles, also Kate will become HRH Princess William.

But because Prince Charles helds peerages, his spouse shares his style and is also addressed with his peerage titles. Usually The Princess of Wales (not in Scotland) or The Duchess of Rothesay (in Scotland). For known reasons Camilla is styled as The Duchess of Cornwall (not in Scotland) or The Duchess of Rothesay (in Scotland).

As long as Prince William has no peerages, his wife will be styled as HRH Prince William of Wales. When Prince William becomes the Duke of Cornwall, his wife will be styled as The Duchess of Cornwall.

 

[Frothy]

Oh for goodness sake!

I am sorry to be exasperated, but I do get so tired of posts instructing me on titles, as if I needed to be told!

We are not going to go over the debate as to whether the true title is 'The Duke of York' or 'The Prince Andrew, Duke of York'. BranchQ maintains the latter, I the former, and have cited plenty of official sources to prove it. I prefer to rest on my assertion than debate back and forth as to whether the Prince of Wales is at all "The Prince Charles, Prince of Wales"

Can we not just assume we all know the basics of titles. I am trying to broaden it out a bit to the original (and I think correct) assumpton by Branch Q that the Queen would grant William a dukedom upon marriage to avoid Kate being known as "Princess William".

I am suggesting that Buck House's spin gurus, as an insurance policy, if you like, against Kate/William's marriage going sour and she making demands as to post divorce status, consider the opposite; of letting her retain the old fashioned "Princess William" title that makes it clearer than any royal peerage title to the general public that her royal status is wholly dependent on her status as current bride.

She could hardly demand to remain "Princess William" after a divorce. Given recent royal history I think this would be smart planning.

 

[bmbutler]

Harry's Name

I think Charles' titles are all personal ones, meaning they don't pass on to the sons. Even the title "Prince of Wales" doesn't go automatically to the heir to the throne. It must be conferred to the heir by the monarch. If/when Charles becomes king, the title "Prince of Wales" reverts back to the crown and Charles must confer it to William for him to use it.

Should William and Harry marry before that time, their wives would be titled Princess William and Princess Henry (which is his actual name; always thought that was peculiar that he's called 'Harry'). Unless the monarch makes the wives princesses in their own right, legally, they take the name of their husbands.

When Harry was born in 1984, the palace specifically said that his given name was Henry Charles Albert David, but that he would go by Harry.

 

[Henri M.]

I am trying to broaden it out a bit to the original (and I think correct) assumpton by Branch Q that the Queen would grant William a dukedom upon marriage to avoid Kate being known as "Princess William".

There is no any assumption or spin or whatever needed. Any wife who is not a British princess by birth, will become HRH Princess William. The rules are simple and clear. Du moment that Prince William gets a peerage, his wife will be styled with her husband's peerage title.

If Kate will marry William tomorrow, she will become in a normal routing:

HRH Princess William of Wales

HRH The (Princess William,) Duchess of Cornwall, Duchess of Rothesay

HRH The (Princess William,) Princess of Wales, Duchess of Cornwall, Duchess of Rothesay

HM The Queen