The Royal Household, Courtiers, Advisers and Attendants 2: Sep 2022 -

[Denville]

I would imagien that if Lady Susan was commonly giving to acting in this manner, she would not have lasted as the queen's lady in wiaitng. I think its possible that as she's in her 80s, she's beginning to suffer form some form of mental decline.

 

[ppetrica]

I am a national minority and I work in an international company.
From time to time we have some social gatherings with purpose to get to know each other better.
How do we make conversations?
We mingle, approach someone, and start small chat.
And it usually starts with asking someone "where are you from? really? I've heard of your national football team" or where are you from? really? A friend of mine had a wonderful vacation there".
And when someone asks me about where I come from, I'm not offended, why should I be? I like talking about where I'm from.
Not everything is about race or nationality or sexual orientation.

 

[Mbruno]

Just a thought, but perhaps there's something wrong about her hearing? The way she kept repeating the same question as if she's ignoring the answer she got reminds me of how I used to have conversation with my late grandmother. Isn't she in her 80s already? At that age, a decline in her hearing seems normal, on top of it since it's a reception surely with the noise around would add to the problem.

I don't think it is a hearing problem. My understanding is that Lady Susan's (or Lady Hussey's as you prefer) first reaction was to assume that Ms. Fulani had been born overseas. Folowing Ms. Fulani's first answer, it appears that Lady Susan understood perfectly well that she was born in the UK, but kept asking her about her family's ethnicity (or, equivalently, her parents' country of origin), and in a somewhat rude and pushy way. That is what came across as racist, because it sounded as if Lady Susan was implying that a person of color born in the UK of immigrant parents (e.g., PM Rishi Sunak) is "less British" than a white Anglo person, or maybe "not British" at all.


To be accurate, that was Ms. Fulani's and the media's intepretation of the conversation and, while it is a reasonable and fair intepretation, it may not be what Lady Susan actually meant. Maybe she was just genuinely curious about Ms. Fulani's ethnic background. I agree with Denville though that the way she kept raising the issue and pressing Ms. Fulani for an answer, like in a police interrogation, suggests in my opinion evidence of some form of mental decline, which would not be unusual for a 83-year-old person.

 

[Lilyflo]

I'm white and nobody has ever asked me where I'm "really from" and I think that's the issue here. I'd also like to note that Ms Fulani has expressed her wish that the matter be handled kindly.

 

[TLLK]

I often get asked where I come from - originally. I must say that that occasionally it does annoy me and sometimes it doesn't depending on everything - the tone, how the conversation is and the person.
I know that the question of where have you come from? is a go to small talk piece for the royals.
I also know many people that fly off into tantrums when asked this question. My children been among them - she literally flew off the handle the other day when someone asked, if she was allowed to be in a pub. The comment was a joke about her youthful appearance - she looks nine. Not her color, but that is where she immediately went.
We live in a very racial charged world - and I am disgusted by that. Yes - I am a 50 year old black Brit - with South African and Jamaican descent and never in all my life has race been more an issue then today. And it is not that it is a discrimintory issue - it is a SS who will tell your neighbors and accuse everyone of race speech if I don't like them and I will police your speech/actions/thought from 50 years ago rhetoric or even worse I will judge the actions of people thousands of years ago by my current surface level virtues.
I do not say Lady Hassey's action were right - they were just clumsy. I have meet her and know of her more as a person and she is not a racist as far as I could tell. I found her to be a very kind person who was always willing to assist others and put in when needed.
What I cannot condone if people patting themselves on the back for ruining the reputation of an 80 year old. I see no moral victory here - I do not understand people who are praising the bravery of someone going on social media to ruin anyone life. This is the height of cowardliness in my eyes.
I have been told that social media give empty power to the powerless - so they believe all small wins are great victories - all their comments are great feats of genius. Then I really pity the state of this world.

Claire-Thank you for sharing your story and your experience of when you'd engaged in conversation with Lady Susan Hussey.

 

[altagrace]

I am a national minority and I work in an international company.
From time to time we have some social gatherings with purpose to get to know each other better.
How do we make conversations?
We mingle, approach someone, and start small chat.
And it usually starts with asking someone "where are you from? really? I've heard of your national football team" or where are you from? really? A friend of mine had a wonderful vacation there".
And when someone asks me about where I come from, I'm not offended, why should I be? I like talking about where I'm from.
Not everything is about race or nationality or sexual orientation.

We all agree there is nothing wrong with being asked where are you from, as you said it’s usually a good icebreaker. But in this case Ms Fulani answered 3 times or more: UK, British, born and raised here. At that point Lady Susan’s insistance was rude and pushy, challenging, interrogation like. Like she was not satisfied with the answer. At the point the conversation to was taking a wrong turn as in you asked a question and it was answered it 3-4 times; you keep insisting and challenging the answer then are you implying the answer is not truthful?

It seems to me there was an assumption in Lady Husseys mind that a black person like Miss Fulani couldn’t be “really” British. At the very least this was “unconscious bias” to use a fashionable expression. And that is unacceptable from somebody who is a lady of the Palace and who was Diana’s coach in protocol.

 

[Erin9]

The Royal Household, Courtiers, Advisers and Attendants

I'm white and nobody has ever asked me where I'm "really from" and I think that's the issue here. I'd also like to note that Ms Fulani has expressed her wish that the matter be handled kindly.

From my perspective- handling this kindly would have meant none of this winding up on Twitter to begin with for a worldwide audience.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

I'm white and nobody has ever asked me where I'm "really from" and I think that's the issue here. I'd also like to note that Ms Fulani has expressed her wish that the matter be handled kindly.

Thank you. The fact that Ms. Flanigan has expressed regret about Lady Susan resigning her position impresses me. It's not what she wanted at all.

Has her Ladyship at least offered an apology?

 

[ACO]

It wasn't just the question. The first offense was Lady Susan putting her hand on this woman. Don't touch people. That set the mood and she was already on the defense. Then she badgered her with questions. You might not take offense to it but I perfectly understand in that circumstance why she was not okay with it.

People are all "She is 83" yada yada. Yeah okay. I get that but that doesn't excuse that kind of behavior either especially for a woman who has done it for so long. She was perfectly aware. She just was too entitled to recognize that moment.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

It wasn't just the question. The first offense was Lady Susan putting her hand on this woman. Don't touch people. That set the mood and she was already on the defense. Then she badgered her with questions. You might not take offense to it but I perfectly understand in that circumstance why she was not okay with it.

People are all "She is 83" yada yada. Yeah okay. I get that but that doesn't excuse that kind of behavior either especially for a woman who has done it for so long. She was perfectly aware. She just was too entitled to recognize that moment.

She didn’t touch her, it was one of the staff who was trying to look at her name tag. What has she done for so long? I don’t agree with her constant questions however.

 

[Sionevar]

I'm white and nobody has ever asked me where I'm "really from" and I think that's the issue here. I'd also like to note that Ms Fulani has expressed her wish that the matter be handled kindly.

I'm white, but I work in a public facing position, and I have an accent that is wildly different from the local one, so people ask me where I'm from all the damn time.

Most people are just curious, but it still gets to be pretty tiring. I've taken to giving a high level answer e.g. 'Europe' or telling them where in Canada I used to live before I moved here. Some people (almost always other white folks) get really annoyed at that, and demand to know where I'm 'really' from.

 

[Granada]

I'm going to say I won't be rushing to judgement on this terrible situation. I'd like the dust to settle a bit first.
But I will say that I find it hard to believe that Susan Hussey who has been at Palace Events for decades, interacting with people from ALL walks of life, would be so bigoted and crass at a Social Engagement. If so, *maybe* She is in some mental decline.
I honestly don't know, but wow what a blowup that is rocking Buckingham Palace.

Could it be that the conversation was "embellished" ? Yes I know it was supposedly overheard by a friend of the Ngozi Fulani, but I'm not going to pillorize Susan Hussein until more is known. There are cameras EVERYWHERE in Buckingham Palace that capture everything, so I'm sure its being reviewed now. That a seasoned professional woman of "The Court" would touch another woman's hair to see her name tag is shocking to me. Not just the purported conversation.

There is also chatter coming to light that Ngozi previously posted on Twitter 'that Meghans in-laws were guilty of domestic violence' towards her. That's PRETTY DAMAGING stuff to say.
Could be an Agenda here at play too.
Looks like the honeymoon period for Charles and Camilla following The Queens death is over. Buckingham Palace says they contacted her, as of a while ago Ngozi said they hadn't. So which is it ?
So while this is a serious and damaging situation and allegation, it could be a " recollections vary" circumstance.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

We all agree there is nothing wrong with being asked where are you from, as you said it’s usually a good icebreaker. But in this case Ms Fulani answered 3 times or more: UK, British, born and raised here. At that point Lady Susan’s insistance was rude and pushy, challenging, interrogation like. Like she was not satisfied with the answer. At the point the conversation to was taking a wrong turn as in you asked a question and it was answered it 3-4 times; you keep insisting and challenging the answer then are you implying the answer is not truthful?

It seems to me there was an assumption in Lady Husseys mind that a black person like Miss Fulani couldn’t be “really” British. At the very least this was “unconscious bias” to use a fashionable expression. And that is unacceptable from somebody who is a lady of the Palace and who was Diana’s coach in protocol.

I’m not sure if she was questioning whether she’s “British” or not or simply asking her cultural heritage or origins. But her insistence made it seem like she’s questioning Ngozi’s answers. Hopefully amends will be made properly. I’m sure Lady Susan Hussey understood that the woman is based in the U.K, but wanted to know her origins.

 

[Denville]

I'm going to say I won't be rushing to judgement on this terrible situation. I'd like the dust to settle a bit first.
But I will say that I find it hard to believe that Susan Hussey who has been at Palace Events for decades, interacting with people from ALL walks of life, would be so bigoted and crass at a Social Engagement. If so, *maybe* She is in some mental decline.
I honestly don't know, but wow what a blowup that is rocking Buckingham Palace.

C

I agree that as SH has been working for the queen for a lifetime, meeting all sorts of people, it is not that likely that she would normally be clumsy in talking to someone like this. So possibly, as she is 83 she's not as sharp as she used to be, and perhaps has reverted to older patterns of thought that were common in her younger days.

 

[Ista]

Several posts on this thread have been edited. This is a complicated topic, so this is a reminder that forum rules require that we treat other members with courtesy. Please keep that in mind as you post.

 

[southwind]

Why we have to belive everything she said? Or that the talk was the way she said?
This girl has already accused the royal family of racist on twitter before this event (guess defending who). Why did she go to a reunion with a family that is supposed to be that way?
She said noone from the palace has talked to her but there are a video of her talking with Camila.
She's so pround of her ancestors that she likes to dress like she came from an african tribu (just look her false sleeves), but no so pround to tell from where they came from?

Looks to me that someone wanted to find a problem, and just the day before Willian and Kate tour...to much casuallity. Or causality?

 

[kimebear]

The fact remains that Lady Hussey failed to be diplomatic and tactful at a palace event, which is a criteria of her position regardless of her age.

Although I will say that as some people get older, my own mother included, they can often begin to act unfiltered in public.

Now she has stepped down, as was the right thing to do, so it should not continue to reflect badly on the new King and Queen in the UK or on the Walses in the US as the matter was handled quickly and decisively.

Unless this has happened with her before? I haven't heard of another similar incident regarding Lady Hussey.

 

[Somebody]

From my perspective- handling this kindly would have meant none of this winding up on Twitter to begin with for a worldwide audience.

With that I have to agree. If she wanted it to be handled kindly, the right thing would be to bring it up to someone at or after the event. Not to share your recollection of that conversation on Twitter (using initials to identify the offender).

Nonetheless, I think she is right to raise the issue to make sure that people (in this case palace 'staff') understand that this type of questioning isn't a neutral form of 'making acquaintances' but has a not to subtle message of 'not-belonging'. That is something that definitely should be addressed by the palace to avoid it from happening again.

 

[duchessrachel]

Just a thought, but perhaps there's something wrong about her hearing? The way she kept repeating the same question as if she's ignoring the answer she got reminds me of how I used to have conversation with my late grandmother. Isn't she in her 80s already? At that age, a decline in her hearing seems normal, on top of it since it's a reception surely with the noise around would add to the problem.

I agree. People are just assuming the worst as she had been a model of discretion for many years. I am sorry that Ms. Fulani had this experience, but why did she not go directly to the Palace instead of putting it on Twitter. She should have investigated the situation to find out why Ms. Hussey was questioning her this way. She said she could not talk to Queen Camilla, but why? I am sure if she had contacted the Palace and told of her experience she would have gotten an audience. It looked like in the videos she was talking to Queen Camilla with not problem. She was in a group of women looking like she was enjoying herself.

 

[Durham]

Buckingham Palace certainly feels so. Which is why many large corporations and organizations routinely utilize diversity training for their workers/employers.
To to its credit has realized that it is not very diverse and as such are taking strides to hire more racially diverse people.

I encourage you to read the following articles. They are quite insightful.

Buckingham Palace lags behind on workplace diversity and admits it ‘must do more’
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ace-ethnic-minorities-diversity-b1871740.html

Buckingham Palace banned ethnic minorities from office roles, papers revealhttps://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ic-minorities-from-office-roles-papers-reveal

I have read these before but thanks for the link. In fact it was that article from The Independent that I looked at to find the approx percentage of palace employees from BAME communities. That second article though is about a very different age.

The issue is really about the very small pool from which ladies in waiting have traditionally been selected. And that has always been about class & not race.

And yes , human nature being what it is, there is a surprise around every corner.

 

[Durham]

From 1.50.30. An interview with Ngozi Fulani I listed to on Today, BBC Radio 4's morning programme:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qj9z

I have to admit I did chuckle when Susan Hussey reportedly said "her people were from France". Presumably arrived with The Conqueror.

I think Fulani is unconvincing however when she says that Susan Hussey was trying to make her "denounce my British citizenship".

 

[AC21091968]

Ngozi Fulani's charity, Sistah Space is now under investigation by The Charity Commission over the allegation/materials posted on social media about the finances and the organisation itself. Ngozi Fulani was at the centre of the Buckingham Palace's race row. Sistah Space has temporarily ceased working last week over safety fears for the staff and client.

The Charity Commission is examining a series of allegations over the running of Sistah Space, the organisation whose founder was at the centre of the Buckingham Palace race row.

In a statement the watchdog said it was “assessing material” posted on social media questioning the charity’s finances and organisation.

The Greater London Assembly’s finance chief has also been asked to ensure that grants to Sistah Space “have been used as intended”.

(...)

A lengthy analysis of Sistah Space’s operations, posted on Twitter by an anonymous user, has led to the charity watchdog beginning a preliminary examination.

The social media posts - more than 200 in total - have been widely circulated in a sign that the Buckingham Palace race row, which was deeply embarrassing to the Royal household, continues to attract huge interest.

In the posts, allegations are made concerning the running of Sistah Space, a domestic violence charity for black women and their families. The charity was formed in 2015, a year after the murder of a black woman and her daughter by an abusive ex-partner amid criticism of police for their "inaction" in response to earlier threats. The charity provides advice and advocacy to women and girls from the African and Afro-Caribbean communities.

(...)

Sistah Space, based in Hackney in east London, admits in its most recent accounts it has had “issues” in managing its growth since it was formally registered as a charity in 2018. Its most recent accounts were posted 69 days late.

In its annual report, the charity said: “The sudden increase meant we had to develop a new way of working to ensure we were current with financial regulations and reporting… This financial year 2021 has proved to be our most challenging but equally our most successful year.”

The charity said its accounts officer was “off for a very long time” with Covid and “it was difficult trying to find a replacement”. The replacement of the finance officer, said the charity, “caused a massive disruption in the organisation’s ability to record accounts in a timely manner”.

In its accounts, the charity said: “We have now engaged an independent accounting firm and are confident that any issues are a thing of the past.”

The Twitter post also highlighted a dispute between Sistah Space and Hackney Council, in which the local authority had tried to evict the charity from its temporary headquarters in a building owned by the local authority.

Palace race row accuser Ngozi Fulani's charity draws watchdog's attention after allegations
Sistah Space, founded by guest who spoke out at Queen Consort's event, has had its finances questioned at length on social media
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...hobox&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1671001692-1
Archive link: https://archive.vn/nKG6R

 

[wbenson]

A statement from Buckingham Palace and Ngozi Fulani, Founder of Sistah Space

A meeting took place this morning, 16th December, at Buckingham Palace between Ms Ngozi Fulani, founder of Sistah Space, and Lady Susan Hussey to address the incident that took place at a Palace reception last month.

At this meeting, filled with warmth and understanding, Lady Susan offered her sincere apologies for the comments that were made and the distress they caused to Ms Fulani.

Lady Susan has pledged to deepen her awareness of the sensitivities involved and is grateful for the opportunity to learn more about the issues in this area.

Ms Fulani, who has unfairly received the most appalling torrent of abuse on social media and elsewhere, has accepted this apology and appreciates that no malice was intended.

The Royal Households will continue their focus on inclusion and diversity, with an enhanced programme of work which will extend knowledge and training programmes, examining what can be learnt from Sistah Space, and ensuring these reach all members of their communities.

Both Ms Fulani and Lady Susan ask now that they be left in peace to rebuild their lives in the wake of an immensely distressing period for them both.

They hope that their example shows a path to resolution can be found with kindness, co-operation and the condemnation of discrimination wherever it takes root.

It is the wish of both parties that, at the end of the UN’s 16 days of Activism Against Gender-Based Violence, attention can now return to the important work of Sistah Space in supporting women affected by domestic abuse.

Their Majesties The King and The Queen Consort and other members of the Royal Family have been kept fully informed and are pleased that both parties have reached this welcome outcome.

 

[Marengo]

There was also a photo. Good that the matter can be closed now.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1603797408516919298

 

[Blog Real]

It's good that the two could get together and clear everything up. I hope this is how the matter is finally closed.

 

[tommy100]

Nice that they could sit together and discuss and move on, the matter now closed.

 

[MARG]

There was also a photo. Good that the matter can be closed now.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1603797408516919298

Nice that they could sit together and discuss and move on, the matter now closed.

Maybe I am just a cynic but this whole incident has shown how badly this issue was handled and I am afraid the BRF has opened itself up for further "incidents.

I was appalled when the Palace Machine almost immediately released a statement that, for all intents and purposes, took the story as released in all its glorious hyperbole, and accepted it unequivocally as "truth" instead of following their usual speak/no speak, it will be thoroughly investigated. Worse, William did not hesitate to throw his Godmother under the double-decker bus. How heartbroken she must be.

Ngozi Fulani (aka Marlene ) seems to be little more than a con woman whose charity has been "temporarily" closed, the only employee being the said Ms Fulani as the Charities Commission is investigating. Many British citizens of Caribbean and African descent and British citizenship were confounded by Ms Ngozi's "costume" as it did not fit any tribal African or Caribbean ethnic group. In light of this, I had to wonder if that is why Lady Susan was confused.

IMHO this was a case of "race-baiting" and believe that Lady Susan did her job and headed Ms Fulani away from her real target, Queen Camilla.

 

[Durham]

To doubt what someone says about how they perceive they have been treated is now essentially to commit a heresy. As in medieval times the sinner has no excuse & must apologise or be cancelled.

That's where we are as a society. The palace had no choice whatsoever but to do what it did.

 

[tommy100]

The Late Queen's Private Secretary, Sir Edward Young, who stayed on as Joint Private Secretary to the new King has left BP today.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1658123350902730759

After 19 years of service Sir Edward Young, Queen Elizabeth’s long-standing private secretary, is leaving BP today after staying on as Joint Principal Private Secretary to the King. In recognition Sir Edward has been granted a peerage and appointed a Lord in Waiting. Additionally, he is appointed a Knight Grand Cross Order of the Bath and promoted within the Royal Victorian Order to Knight Grand Cross. Sir Edward said: ‘I am honoured to have served two sovereigns through historic times.’

 

[Sionevar]

Oof! That's quite a lot of rewards, isn't it? I guess retiring as a Private Secretary is a much better deal than retiring as a Dresser ? Or would Sir Edward rather have received a house?