The Royal Household, Courtiers, Advisers and Attendants 2: Sep 2022 -

[Saragli]

It also goes back to my point that having professional staff to “ help with events “ at the Palace may be better than relying on old aristocratic women.

I agree, when they originally announced they were getting rid of "ladies-in-waiting" I was hoping they would be replaced with hired professionals.

This interaction says a lot about the "old guard" of the UK. Lady SH probably thought absolutely nothing of her interaction and questioning. She probably would never think of it as racist but would say she was just curious and attempting a conversation. That's part of the problem.

While I don't care for Ngozi Fulani's use of the word "traumatic" to describe the interaction, especially at an event that deals with violence, rape, and murder towards women, she is correct to have mixed feeling and to speak out. I also admire her for saying that she wished Lady SH wasn't "dismissed" but simply educated. "Cancelling" people doesn't change things, experience and education does.

I hope this event continues to expediate the changes and modernization of the monarchy under the King.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

It was a good statement to put out IMHO and I do hope they speak to Ms Fulani and that she will be satisfied with the discussion with the palace.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

I agree, when they originally announced they were getting rid of "ladies-in-waiting" I was hoping they would be replaced with hired professionals.

This interaction says a lot about the "old guard" of the UK. Lady SH probably thought absolutely nothing of her interaction and questioning. She probably would never think of it as racist but would say she was just curious and attempting a conversation. That's part of the problem.

While I don't care for Ngozi Fulani's use of the word "traumatic" to describe the interaction, especially at an event that deals with violence, rape, and murder towards women, she is correct to have mixed feeling and to speak out. I also admire her for saying that she wished Lady SH wasn't "dismissed" but simply educated. "Cancelling" people doesn't change things, experience and education does.

I hope this event continues to expediate the changes and modernization of the monarchy under the King.

The ladies-in-waiting don’t really count as the “old guard” that’s really for the courtiers.

 

[Saragli]

The ladies-in-waiting don’t really count as the “old guard” that’s really for the courtiers.

Seeing as the ladies-in-waiting are all elderly aristocratic women they are very much part of the old guard. They ARE the old guard.

 

[muriel]

Seeing as the ladies-in-waiting are all elderly aristocratic women they are very much part of the old guard. They ARE the old guard.

Thgere are 2 of them left, hardly a big number.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

Seeing as the ladies-in-waiting are all elderly aristocratic women they are very much part of the old guard. They ARE the old guard.

Them being elderly women is simply because they are and were close to the late Queen and current Queen in age. Most Royal watchers don’t really pay attention to them anyways because they don’t make speeches and aren’t with royal ladies everyday and they aren’t “palace higher ups”. They don’t run the palace alongside courtiers, their position is literally accompanying the Queen around at certain events.

 

[miss whirley]

It's interesting. It brought back memories to when I was in high school and one of my teachers (an elderly Asian woman) asked me in front of the class what country does my family come from. I told her (and the class) what countries in Europe my family immigrated from in the late 1800s. She didn't believe me and thought I was too dark and ethnic looking to come from the countries I mentioned. And I had to explain the regional diversity of the country my maternal family comes from.

It was an awkward conversation mostly because she asked me in front of the class. I didn't take it as a personal slight. I just assumed an older woman was being curious. But I wonder if the roles were reversed and I was the Asian and she was the Caucasian would I have felt racially targeted, or would I still think of it as a curious older woman?

 

[tommy100]

I find the whole thing bizarre. Obviously it was very uncomfortable and unpleasant with definite racist elements to it. But Lady Susan Hussey has been doing receptions, banquets, walk abouts etc for 60 odd years. The whole incident just seems so out of character. So very sad for everyone involved.

 

[Durham]

Is anyone really surprised?

BP has never been the most diverse place and we've all known that it was filled with old, gray, white men (and women). It's not surprising that they have racists views.

To BP's credit they are trying to work on it by setting goals of improving diversity and hiring people from different ethnic groups.

Yes actually I am.

Not because of what she said & the appalling attitude she displayed towards a non white person. As others have explained that's par for the course for a lot of elderly British people (she's in her 80's) but because it's so obviously rude & pushy. And people like her pride themselves on their courtesy & tact.

When it comes to ethnic diversity younger generations in Britain are very different in their attitudes & education. Unless there is some evidence to the contrary (?) I am confident that no paid member of BP's staff would ever act like this. Of course some will use this to try to prove something unpleasant about the monarchy for which there is no substance.

 

[Prinsara]

It's interesting. It brought back memories to when I was in high school and one of my teachers (an elderly Asian woman) asked me in front of the class what country does my family come from. I told her (and the class) what countries in Europe my family immigrated from in the late 1800s. She didn't believe me and thought I was too dark and ethnic looking to come from the countries I mentioned. And I had to explain the regional diversity of the country my maternal family comes from.

It was an awkward conversation mostly because she asked me in front of the class. I didn't take it as a personal slight. I just assumed an older woman was being curious. But I wonder if the roles were reversed and I was the Asian and she was the Caucasian would I have felt racially targeted, or would I still think of it as a curious older woman?

Presumably that was also not the first or only interaction you ever had with your teacher, and you knew her enough to feel relatively comfortable trying to explain to her and your classmates. If she was a stranger suddenly asking you about your background, you might have felt differently.

 

[Sionevar]

The incident has reached CNN's ears - they discussed it as part of the coverage of William and Kate's visit. Which is a real shame, because now the visit is going to be overshadowed by a new 'scandal'.

 

[miss whirley]

Presumably that was also not the first or only interaction you ever had with your teacher, and you knew her enough to feel relatively comfortable trying to explain to her and your classmates. If she was a stranger suddenly asking you about your background, you might have felt differently.

Perhaps. But I think I would have been less surprised to be asked by a stranger while out and about, than asked in the middle of class. It wasn't a geography or history class.

Though my time with this teacher did make me see her as an eccentric. She would go on in future classes to ask me other odd questions.

 

[Minister of Court]

Just goes to show.. It’s no good mixing ranks and putting everyone on edge.

 

[Alisa]

I hope you realize that not everyone who works in the palace is white, old, gray men and women. It was unfortunate what happened to Ms. Fulani and I hope things will properly be sorted out for her, but that doesn’t mean just because a small part of household did something offensive does not mean all the staff will do the same or think the same.

No I never said "everyone". However, the vast majority of the people who work in BP are white. The lack of diversity at BP paired with the lack of diversity training will foster such intolerant attitudes and behaviors.

 

[Durham]

No I never said "everyone". However, the vast majority of the people who work in BP are white. The lack of diversity at BP paired with the lack of diversity training will foster such intolerant attitudes and behaviors.

Just under one in ten in the Royal Household are BAME. About one in seven in the UK are BAME. So there is diversity.

Does a lack of diversity training foster intolerance? Is there evidence for this from the UK?

A far more interesting (& relevant) statistic for this country is not the race but the socio-economic background of people working in the Royal Household. Class is the great divider in this country not race. The PM might be non white but he went to one of the great public schools just like Boris Johnson. He's very much a product of his class.

It's no surprise that Lady Hussey was born the daughter of an earl.

 

[Lilyflo]

Just a pedantic point here but she's Lady Susan Hussey not Lady Hussey as she's a Lady in her own right.

 

[Durham]

I thought she was known as Lady Hussey because her late husband was a peer?

Happy to be corrected if wrong.

 

[HRHHermione]

I thought she was known as Lady Hussey because her late husband was a peer?

Happy to be corrected if wrong.

No, Lady Susan because her father was an earl.

 

[Durham]

No, Lady Susan because her father was an earl.

I understand that when she married Mr Hussey she was known as Lady Susan Hussey as the daughter of an earl. But when Mr Hussey became Lord (Baron) Hussey of North Bradley I thought his wife became Lady Hussey.

I need to keep up!

But thank you.

 

[Prinsara]

I understand that when she married Mr Hussey she was known as Lady Susan Hussey as the daughter of an earl. But when Mr Hussey became Lord (Baron) Hussey of North Bradley I thought his wife became Lady Hussey.

I need to keep up!

But thank you.

Daughter of an earl trumps wife of a baron, afaik. If he'd been given an earldom she'd be Lady Whatever.

 

[FigTree]

Daughter of an earl trumps wife of a baron, afaik. If he'd been given an earldom she'd be Lady Whatever.

Not always but own title trumps your married one it’s your birth one coming first.

 

[Mbruno]

Daughter of an earl trumps wife of a baron, afaik. If he'd been given an earldom she'd be Lady Whatever.

While it is true that the daughter of an earl has higher precedence than the wife of a baron, Wikipedia nonetheless styles her by her husband's title and says that she was "known as Lady Susan Hussey" only until her husband became a life peer.

Wikipedia is not reliable, however, when it comes to titles and styles.

EDIT : The BBC appears to refer to her in the linked article as both Lady Hussey and Lady Susan, which adds to the confusion.

 

[Alisa]

Lady Susan is not a salaried employee of the Royal Household, so I don’t see what that incident has to do with the Palace’s hiring policies.

I'm not sure to be completely honest about the specifics of payment/employment. However BP and the Royal House does utilize her services so much so that she has had to "resign" and BP who she works for voluntarily felt compelled to respond.

Yes actually I am.

Not because of what she said & the appalling attitude she displayed towards a non white person. As others have explained that's par for the course for a lot of elderly British people (she's in her 80's) but because it's so obviously rude & pushy. And people like her pride themselves on their courtesy & tact.

When it comes to ethnic diversity younger generations in Britain are very different in their attitudes & education. Unless there is some evidence to the contrary (?) I am confident that no paid member of BP's staff would ever act like this. Of course some will use this to try to prove something unpleasant about the monarchy for which there is no substance.

Well if you learned anything today it is that you may be suprised at the attitudes and behaviors of people who you think would know better.

Just under one in ten in the Royal Household are BAME. About one in seven in the UK are BAME. So there is diversity.

Does a lack of diversity training foster intolerance? Is there evidence for this from the UK?

Buckingham Palace certainly feels so. Which is why many large corporations and organizations routinely utilize diversity training for their workers/employers.
To to its credit has realized that it is not very diverse and as such are taking strides to hire more racially diverse people.

I encourage you to read the following articles. They are quite insightful.

Buckingham Palace lags behind on workplace diversity and admits it ‘must do more’
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ace-ethnic-minorities-diversity-b1871740.html

Buckingham Palace banned ethnic minorities from office roles, papers revealhttps://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ic-minorities-from-office-roles-papers-reveal

 

[wbenson]

I thought she was known as Lady Hussey because her late husband was a peer?

Happy to be corrected if wrong.

By tradition, she would have become Lady Hussey of North Bradley on her husband's ennoblement (by the rules of precedence, a peeress loses her birth rank even if her rank as a peeress is lower), but instead she elected to retain her old style socially.

The Court Circular's most recent mention of her calls her "the Lady Susan Hussey."

 

[HenRach Dominion]

I hate when things like this happen, and not just because it's an awful experience for Ms. Fulani, who was more than likely invited for her work supporting Black women surviving domestic. This is an example of obvious bigotry: Lady Susan Hussey assumed that Ms. Fulani was an immigrant in spite of the latter's insistence otherwise. The majority of people will admit that the former was wrong in this situation. The problem is that it gives people the incorrect assumption that all bigotry/racism is that obvious. It is not.

Whereas obvious racism like the above incident is easily condemned, many more prevalent, subtle forms of racism are often ignored or defended. Why is there a lack of diversity within the BRF's workforce? Skilled workers are more important than diverse ones, and in the entire United Kingdom skill and diverse workers are hard to come by. Why doesn't the BRF discuss the wealth inequalities that often affect communities of color? Well, that's political and the BRF represent all of United Kingdom, so you can't expect them to single out a specific group.

I hope that as Buckingham Palace work towards diversity, they work to combat the covert as well as the overt racism.

 

[Somebody]

Just read that Lady (Susan) Hussey's aunt (Dame Frances Campbell-Preston) was a lady-in-waiting to queen Elizabeth the queen mother, and her daughter Katharine is one of Camilla's new companions! She must have rather mixed feelings at the moment - for her mother to be ousted when she just started her 'tenure' in royal service.

The first companions include some longstanding personal friends - the Marchioness of Lansdowne, Jane von Westenholz, Lady Katharine Brooke, Sarah Troughton, Lady Sarah Keswick and Baroness Chisholm, a former Conservative whip and Cabinet Office spokeswoman in the House of Lords.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

I find the whole thing bizarre. Obviously it was very uncomfortable and unpleasant with definite racist elements to it. But Lady Susan Hussey has been doing receptions, banquets, walk abouts etc for 60 odd years. The whole incident just seems so out of character. So very sad for everyone involved.

I agree. This woman has been in the thick of things for years. I remember reading in the leadup to the Charles/Diana wedding that the teenaged Lady Diana had been given over to Lady Susan for fine tuning. She enjoyed the utmost respect in the family not only for her discretion, but her impeccable manners.

What in the ##!! came over her?? Was the punch spiked too strongly?

What a way to end such a long prestigious career.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

I'm not sure to be completely honest about the specifics of payment/employment. However BP and the Royal House does utilize her services so much so that she has had to "resign" and BP who she works for voluntarily felt compelled to respond.

Well if you learned anything today it is that you may be suprised at the attitudes and behaviors of people who you think would know better.



Buckingham Palace certainly feels so. Which is why many large corporations and organizations routinely utilize diversity training for their workers/employers.
To to its credit has realized that it is not very diverse and as such are taking strides to hire more racially diverse people.

I encourage you to read the following articles. They are quite insightful.

Buckingham Palace lags behind on workplace diversity and admits it ‘must do more’
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ace-ethnic-minorities-diversity-b1871740.html

Buckingham Palace banned ethnic minorities from office roles, papers revealhttps://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ic-minorities-from-office-roles-papers-reveal

Ladies-in-waiting isn’t a paid position and her “resigning” is her simply leaving her position/post but she was never paid, that position isn’t one for paid employees. The Guardian article has already been discussed on this forum and given their stance on the monarchy, I wouldn’t completely take their stance on the issue of staff. They obviously had to respond because it was an unfortunate incident at BP and they utilized her because she was an experienced woman who had been a lady-in-waiting, she wasn’t to remain there for a long time.

 

[yukari]

I agree. This woman has been in the thick of things for years. I remember reading in the leadup to the Charles/Diana wedding that the teenaged Lady Diana had been given over to Lady Susan for fine tuning. She enjoyed the utmost respect in the family not only for her discretion, but her impeccable manners.

What in the ##!! came over her?? Was the punch spiked too strongly?

What a way to end such a long prestigious career.

Just a thought, but perhaps there's something wrong about her hearing? The way she kept repeating the same question as if she's ignoring the answer she got reminds me of how I used to have conversation with my late grandmother. Isn't she in her 80s already? At that age, a decline in her hearing seems normal, on top of it since it's a reception surely with the noise around would add to the problem.

 

[Claire]

I often get asked where I come from - originally. I must say that that occasionally it does annoy me and sometimes it doesn't depending on everything - the tone, how the conversation is and the person.
I know that the question of where have you come from? is a go to small talk piece for the royals.
I also know many people that fly off into tantrums when asked this question. My children been among them - she literally flew off the handle the other day when someone asked, if she was allowed to be in a pub. The comment was a joke about her youthful appearance - she looks nine. Not her color, but that is where she immediately went.
We live in a very racial charged world - and I am disgusted by that. Yes - I am a 50 year old black Brit - with South African and Jamaican descent and never in all my life has race been more an issue then today. And it is not that it is a discrimintory issue - it is a SS who will tell your neighbors and accuse everyone of race speech if I don't like them and I will police your speech/actions/thought from 50 years ago rhetoric or even worse I will judge the actions of people thousands of years ago by my current surface level virtues.
I do not say Lady Hassey's action were right - they were just clumsy. I have meet her and know of her more as a person and she is not a racist as far as I could tell. I found her to be a very kind person who was always willing to assist others and put in when needed.
What I cannot condone if people patting themselves on the back for ruining the reputation of an 80 year old. I see no moral victory here - I do not understand people who are praising the bravery of someone going on social media to ruin anyone life. This is the height of cowardliness in my eyes.
I have been told that social media give empty power to the powerless - so they believe all small wins are great victories - all their comments are great feats of genius. Then I really pity the state of this world.