The Future of the Danish Monarchy

[Archduchess Zelia]

I would like to see Victoria and her cousin Haakon on the thrones years ago. Both crown princes and their respective spouses are more than prepared to assume those duties. There is nothing wrong with a Royal Retirement and hopefully, QMII gets to place the Crown on her son Frederick in grand style, too.

There's nothing wrong with retirement. There's certainly something wrong with wanting to force someone into retirement against their will.

 

[Saragli]

(..) But due to her baroque sense of duty she soldiers on. You just have to watch her walk, her body body has become curved and lopsided from her back. Anytime she is not moving or sitting her face looks like she is in pain. Back surgery is a big deal with a long recovery time.... especially for someone her age. Any major surgery is risky at that age.

 

[JR76]

(..)A theory of mine is that all that walking and standing at Tatoi is what finally made the Queen aware that she had to do something about her back.
Royal reporters Trine Larsen and Jacob Heinel Jensen talked about the issue in the latest episode of his podcast and according to her it's been obvious for a long time to those that see her regularly how much pain she's been in. She's been constantly leaning against something for support and sitting down whenever possible. Often her staff has a foldable chair with them in case it's needed.
They also brought up the possibility that she has inherited her mother's osteoporosis.
According to Chief surgeon Tim Bendix who was also a guest on the podcast it's not uncommon for people who have already had surgery for spinal stenosis as early as the Queen had (aged 62) to be operated on again around twenty years later.

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

(..)

The camera was not on QMII all the time at Constantine's funeral. Far from it, actually. So we don't know how much she suffered during the periods of standing. However, she was clearly in a lot of pain during Philip's memorial but she soldiered on out of respect. Not unlike Constantine who, clearly pained and unable to walk without the help of his wife and an aide, insisted on bowing to his brother-in-law Henrik's coffin in 2018.

(..)

 

[Friedrich Karl II]

Yeah. Surgeon for 82 years old person is not that unusual and it is not necessarility anything serious. Probably Danish court announces if it feels that being necessary.

 

[iceflower]

Once again this thread has been cleaned up. This time from highly speculative posts and replies to them.

 

[JR76]

"The most important thing is that you grow sincerely with your country and become deeply connected to it. This has always been my ideal. "

She'll never abdicate.

 

[Izzie]

She'll never abdicate.

"The most important thing is that you grow sincerely with your country and become deeply connected to it. This has always been my ideal. "

My only comment: Frederik = Charles, the Sequel. Easy to talk about ideals and legacy when you've had 50 years to make your mark. The heir will not be afforded such a opportunity. Frederik better work fast in whatever time he gets then. Especially if he's in his almost 80s.

 

[JR76]

"The most important thing is that you grow sincerely with your country and become deeply connected to it. This has always been my ideal. "



My only comment: Frederik = Charles, the Sequel. Easy to talk about ideals and legacy when you've had 50 years to make your mark. The heir will not be afforded such a opportunity. Frederik better work fast in whatever time he gets then. Especially if he's in his almost 80s.

Crown Prince Fredrik is growing with his country and it's people. Being a crown prince is just as an important position as the one he'll eventually take on. In contrast to his mother he'll ascend his throne as a mature man that has already had time to develop a public persona and gain experience from watching his mother on the job and develop a bond with his people and the political establishment. This stands in contrast to the shy, insecure 31-year old his mother was when she became queen. While ambitious and devoted to her job it wasn't from what I understand until her 40th birthday that she really connected with her people and started growing into the motheri of the nation that she later became.
My point is that some monarchs have short reigns and some have long ones. What's important isn't the length of the reign, but what the monarch does with it.

 

[Izzie]

A monarch also needs time to make their mark. Frederik will obviously have to work fast to make a mark when he "eventually" takes over. If that is in his 70s...how much in his prime (and Mary for that matter) will he be then. He is in his prime now to move the DRF and monarchy forward (as his other continental European monarchs of the same age range are doing).

Why does an heir have to wait until past their own retirement age to ascend? Especially now when live longer. Let's say QMII lives to be 100...that's another what, 17 years? That will make Frederik 71!! I know I'm in the minority here. That is plain to see. And the argument that the heir just takes on more and more duties that the monarch is unable to carry out makes zero sense...then just give the heir the reins! It is like the CEO that does less and less while the rest of the company picks up the slack and does heavier and heavier lifting and the CEO keeps the corner office, title, perks, etc.

Anyway, I stand by my opinion.

 

[Prinsara]

Charles the "prequel" used his time as Prince of Wales to develop a persona of his own, make connections and establish his own very substantial legacy, not to mention doing things the monarch would not be allowed to do.

Even Edward VII, who was allowed to do almost nothing and was known for decades as a playboy and womanizer, still managed to become expert in networking, PR, and international relations, all of which he put to good use in a still-memorable nine-year reign.

If Frederik can't utilize his time as Crown Prince equally wisely, why would he suddenly become more efficacious with a crown on his head? If he can't, then it just might be his fault, and not his blind, selfish, unfeeling mother's.

As this is heading straight back to "The Future of the Danish Monarchy", that's all I'll say.

 

[Blog Real]

Mads Rundstrøm is president of the association Republik Nu, whose aim is to abolish the royal house and for Denmark to be transformed into a republic.
Therefore, the association issued a press release in which it launched a campaign under the motto “Not my king”.

https://nyheder.tv2.dk/2024-01-02-forening-lancerer-kampagne-mod-kronprins-frederik-som-konge

https://www.republiknu.dk/pressemeddelse-i-anledning-af-dronningens-abdikation/

 

[Mbruno]

Mads Rundstrøm is president of the association Republik Nu, whose aim is to abolish the royal house and for Denmark to be transformed into a republic.
Therefore, the association issued a press release in which it launched a campaign under the motto “Not my king”.

https://nyheder.tv2.dk/2024-01-02-forening-lancerer-kampagne-mod-kronprins-frederik-som-konge

https://www.republiknu.dk/pressemeddelse-i-anledning-af-dronningens-abdikation/

One would imagine they could at least come up with a more original slogan.

 

[An Ard Ri]

The Monarchy is currently very popular in Denmark and I'd imagine that the 'Not my king brigade' have relatively small support?

 

[Muhler]

The Monarchy is currently very popular in Denmark and I'd imagine that the 'Not my king brigade' have relatively small support?

Hardly any support.

He is in the media when the journalists need a different or republican angle to something to do with the DRF.
And of course he can voice his opinion and protest if feel like it.

I do find the "not my king" a bit undemocratic.
Denmark is a democracy. A large majority of the population and among the politicians wish to retain the monarchy and that means Frederik will be the head of state whether people like it or not. So "he is my king".
Just as the PM Mette Frederiksen is the Prime Minister, whether you like or voted for her or not.

 

[Blog Real]

Megafon conducted a survey for TV 2 which shows that 56% of Danes support Princess Isabella representing Denmark as a member of royalty in the future.

62% believe that Crown Prince Christian, Princess Isabella, Prince Vincent and Princess Josephine should keep their titles as princes and princesses.

Prinsesse Isabellas store fejring: Gennemtænkt familiestrategi

Der er tænkt på Isabellas fremtid, når hun modtager kæmpe fejring i forbindelse med sin 18-års fødselsdag.

www.billedbladet.dk

Danskerne går imod kongehuset og bakker op om prinsesse Isabella

Skal prinsesse Isabella arbejde for kongehuset, have årpenge og beholde sin titel som prinsesse? Her er, hvad danskerne mener.

nyheder.tv2.dk

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Megafon conducted a survey for TV 2 which shows that 56% of Danes support Princess Isabella representing Denmark as a member of royalty in the future.

62% believe that Crown Prince Christian, Princess Isabella, Prince Vincent and Princess Josephine should keep their titles as princes and princesses.

Danskerne går imod kongehuset og bakker op om prinsesse Isabella

Skal prinsesse Isabella arbejde for kongehuset, have årpenge og beholde sin titel som prinsesse? Her er, hvad danskerne mener.

nyheder.tv2.dk

Very interesting! As the poll was conducted by an outside polling agency, I assume it surveyed a representative sample of the public, not simply TV 2’s audience.

The full questions and answers:

Princess Isabella will soon turn 18 years old. Which of the following statements about Princess Isabella – after she turns 18 – do you most agree with?

56%: Princess Isabella should be able to work as a representative of the royal house and receive an apanage for it, if she wishes

35%: Princess Isabella should not be able to receive an apanage – in return, she should be able to choose herself how she will earn her own living

9%: Don’t know


Which statement about King Frederik and Queen Mary’s children do you most agree with?

62%: All of the King Couple’s children should keep their titles as princes and princesses

12%: Only Crown Prince Christian and Princess Isabella, as numbers 1 and 2 in the order of succession to the throne, should keep their titles

14%: Only Crown Prince Christian should keep his title

12%: Don’t know
​

TV2’s report states that when asked about the survey results, the Royal House pointed to their previous statement on the apanage in 2016 and Queen Mary’s previous comment on titles in 2022.


Royal House statement (May 30, 2016)

“It is not expected, and it has never been, that anyone other than Prince Christian will receive an apanage in his time,” says [Royal House director of communications] Lene Balleby.

Costs, Income, Fortune and Expenditures of the Danish Royal Family

The Danes are very generous towards their (former) royals. For an example: in the Dutch system Prince Joachim, Princess Benedikte, Countess Alexandra and Count Ingolf would not have received any cent from the State. The differences in the amounts between Mary, Alexandra and Joachim probably...

www.theroyalforums.com

Crown Princess Mary’s comment (September 30, 2022)

"[...] We will also have to look at the title of our children, when it's time for that."

Q: Does that also mean that Your children can also lose the titles of prince and princess?

"We cannot see today what the royal house will look like when it's Christian's time or when Christian's time is approaching."

New Titles for Queen Margrethe's Descendants: 2008 & 2022, 2024

Business is a perfectly acceptable career for both children and grandchildren of the monarch in the Netherlands, all styled Princes. I don't know why Denmark would be any different in that regard. I am not sure if you have seen this post by Muhler, but I think it explains it well. To the...

www.theroyalforums.com

A question to Danish speakers: Both statements refer to "Christian's time"; is that understood to mean "when Christian is King", "when Christian is a mature adult", or something else?

 

[polyesco]

Megafon conducted a survey for TV 2 which shows that 56% of Danes support Princess Isabella representing Denmark as a member of royalty in the future.

62% believe that Crown Prince Christian, Princess Isabella, Prince Vincent and Princess Josephine should keep their titles as princes and princesses.

Prinsesse Isabellas store fejring: Gennemtænkt familiestrategi

Der er tænkt på Isabellas fremtid, når hun modtager kæmpe fejring i forbindelse med sin 18-års fødselsdag.

www.billedbladet.dk

Danskerne går imod kongehuset og bakker op om prinsesse Isabella

Skal prinsesse Isabella arbejde for kongehuset, have årpenge og beholde sin titel som prinsesse? Her er, hvad danskerne mener.

nyheder.tv2.dk

Thanks. For me it makes sense that Isabella, Vincent and Josephine keep their titles. They are in a different category then their cousins, being children of the monarchs. They are the Benedikte/Joachim of this generation.

 

[Somebody]

Exactly, imho children of the monarch should remain princes and princesses. I guess Mary wanted to soften the blow when the titles of Joachim's children were taken away - but by doing so, for the rest of their lives, the question of her children's titles will keep coming up because of that comment (while they are in a different position). Any children of Isabella, Vincent and Josephine should not become princes and princesses, given that those titles were removed from Joachim's children.

Let's move further discussion about titles to the appropriate thread.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

If Isabella or her younger siblings were to work part-time as representatives of the Royal House, but also earn their own living through a job that falls within the boundaries of what is acceptable for members of the Royal House (instead of receiving an apanage), would that be acceptable to the public, or would it be an unacceptable half-in half-out situation?

 

[Somebody]

What would you consider 'part-time work'? Showing up occasionally or regularly, next to their full-time job or next to a part-time job? Imho that would be perfectly acceptable - as long as they are not making money of their royal status. And they should be reimbursed for expenses related to their royal engagements (as has been the practice in the Netherlands for decades).

 

[Alisa]

After watching videos, seeing the pics, and reading her wonderful speech there is no doubt in my mind that the DRF needs to keep Isabella on as a full-time time royal. She is beautiful, charming, funny, and oozes confidence as if she has been carrying out royal duties for decades. If she is this way now at 18 imagine decades to come when her experience grows. She is a gem!

 

[tommy100]

Megafon conducted a survey for TV 2 which shows that 56% of Danes support Princess Isabella representing Denmark as a member of royalty in the future.

62% believe that Crown Prince Christian, Princess Isabella, Prince Vincent and Princess Josephine should keep their titles as princes and princesses.

Prinsesse Isabellas store fejring: Gennemtænkt familiestrategi

Der er tænkt på Isabellas fremtid, når hun modtager kæmpe fejring i forbindelse med sin 18-års fødselsdag.

www.billedbladet.dk

Danskerne går imod kongehuset og bakker op om prinsesse Isabella

Skal prinsesse Isabella arbejde for kongehuset, have årpenge og beholde sin titel som prinsesse? Her er, hvad danskerne mener.

nyheder.tv2.dk

It would have been interesting to compare how many people approved of Joachim's kids keeping their titles at the same point as this in their lives.

By which I mean, of course right now people think that. In 10/15/20 years time will people think the same? When the younger children of F&M are about to marry and their spouses will potential have some sort of royal title as well (plus the conversation about whether or not Isabella and Josephine's husbands should have titles if Vincent's wife does etc) will people think the same facing the possibility of 3 extra royals? What will happen in terms of financing their official activities etc etc.

Basically what I am saying is this poll, though interesting, does not IMO actually mean this is what will happen in the future (that the younger children of F&M will keep their titles) and that Isabella will take on public duties or keep doing them. Remember Joachim and his first wife were the core of the DRF public duties after their married, Alexandra was effectively seen like the Crown Princess would in many ways - then Mary came along and then Fred and Mary took their place and now Joachim is out the country. It is just how it works in RFs.

On the other hand, the children are 'the Joachims of their generation' basically so I doubt they will be treated like their cousins and don't seem them loosing their titles necessarily. I think the real question is whether their spouses will have titles and I certainly think it highly unlikely their children will have Prince / Princess titles.

 

[Mbruno]

It would have been interesting to compare how many people approved of Joachim's kids keeping their titles at the same point as this in their lives.

By which I mean, of course right now people think that. In 10/15/20 years time will people think the same? When the younger children of F&M are about to marry and their spouses will potential have some sort of royal title as well (plus the conversation about whether or not Isabella and Josephine's husbands should have titles if Vincent's wife does etc) will people think the same facing the possibility of 3 extra royals? What will happen in terms of financing their official activities etc etc.

Basically what I am saying is this poll, though interesting, does not IMO actually mean this is what will happen in the future (that the younger children of F&M will keep their titles) and that Isabella will take on public duties or keep doing them. Remember Joachim and his first wife were the core of the DRF public duties after their married, Alexandra was effectively seen like the Crown Princess would in many ways - then Mary came along and then Fred and Mary took their place and now Joachim is out the country. It is just how it works in RFs.

On the other hand, the children are 'the Joachims of their generation' basically so I doubt they will be treated like their cousins and don't seem them loosing their titles necessarily. I think the real question is whether their spouses will have titles and I certainly think it highly unlikely their children will have Prince / Princess titles.

I don't see a reason for Christian's siblings to lose their titles. I think Frederik will follow the precedent set by his mother, i.e., his children and the Crown Prince's children will remain Princes/Princesses to Denmark (til Danmark), while his grandchildren in collateral line will be given titles of nobility.

Vincent, as Count of Monpezat, already can transmit his title of nobility to his children under Danish nobility rules. The problem lies with Isabella and Josephine, who are countesses, but cannot transmit the title in maternal line. So, new titles would have to be created specifically for their children, or else they would be disadvantaged compared to Vincent's children, which probably would not be acceptable nowadays.

 

[JR76]

So, new titles would have to be created specifically for their children, or else they would be disadvantaged compared to Vincent's children, which probably would not be acceptable nowadays.

I can't see that within the next 20 years or so the general public would care enough to get worked up if a few very privileged children got titles or not. For instance Nicolai might be popular today but both the general public and many members of these forums had very little sympathy for his whining about loosing his royal title.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I can't see that within the next 20 years or so the general public would care enough to get worked up if a few very privileged children got titles or not. For instance Nicolai might be popular today but both the general public and many members of these forums had very little sympathy for his whining about loosing his royal title.

I believe Mbruno was referring to the sexism of Vincent's children being given additional privileges compared to Isabella's children and Josephine's children, rather than the children being untitled per se. (It would be a different matter if Vincent's children would also be untitled.)

But the general public is unbothered by the 2008 Count(ess) of Monpezat creation specifying succession in male line only, and even preferred the late Henrik being only a Prince as consort while Mary is Queen, so I agree with you that they probably will be fine with Vincent's male gender giving his family additional privileges, at least as far as titles are concerned.

 

[duke of poliganc]

Forgive my ignorance but who set the rules for the Danish nobility is it the constitution, parliament or monarch?

For example can the king declare that titles can be transmitted through female line now even pass to the first born child whatever the gender is or does it require a new law that will need to pass through the parliament

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Forgive my ignorance but who set the rules for the Danish nobility is it the constitution, parliament or monarch?

Nobility rules are definitely not in the Constitution. One can read an English translation of the Constitution here: https://www.ft.dk/-/media/sites/ft/pdf/publikationer/the-constitutional-act-of-denmark.pdf

Other than that, it is a mystery to me where, or even if, Danish nobiliary law is codified, so I'm afraid I cannot be of more help. But there is a thread for the Danish nobility, so I'd respectfully suggest that we move any further discussion of it to there.

Titled Danish Gentry and Nobles

I couldn't find a thread that really covered this, so I thought that I would create this thread to discuss this article in the Copenhagen Post: Titled gentry increasing plenty It says that the numbers of barons, counts, and nobles are increasing in Denmark. There are now 7500. They have the...

www.theroyalforums.com

 

[meeralakshmi]

Now that Denmark has absolute primogeniture they should name a daughter born in place of a Frederik Frederikke (the Danish female form of Frederick) and a daughter born in place of a Christian Christina (the Danish female from of Christian). Not sure if that would make the regnal numbers gender-neutral.

 

[JR76]

I believe Mbruno was referring to the sexism of Vincent's children being given additional privileges compared to Isabella's children and Josephine's children, rather than the children being untitled per se.

Nobody is going to get up in arms over if the very privileged future children of Isabella and Josephine will carry a noble title or not.