The Family of Countess Alexandra - The Manleys

[Tricota]

Yes, the BT article is definitely speculative in the biggest "if" way. There is a lot of supposition going on there.

Sorry, but i just dont see that...

I don't understand how they can assume it's Marie's fault either. But I am not surprised that the articles point the finger at her, because doesn't the woman, or the new wife, usually get the blame? Sometimes the blame is deserved, but not always, and it's fair to say that Marie is not in a very powerful position at this point. The idea of her wielding this much power over this situation is, I think, giving her too much credit.

Again, I dont really see whatyou are talking about. The article mentions nothing about Marie or anthing like that, itisnt even implied between the lines...I think it is either a language thing- i dont now if you read Danish - or perhaps ou are simply seeing ghosts and seeing what you want to see.

But I agree with Lilla and stand by what I have already said; the article does not blame Marie in any way, shape or form.

 

[CasiraghiTrio]

Alexandra's mother's last name Nowotny( Polish) means "Newman when translated.

Is it also spelled Novotny. I just wonder if these are the same names. Is it a common or not-so common Polish family name?

 

[Lilla]

Not Politiken guys. Alexandras forældre: Joachim er sød mod os - royalt There, Marie mentioned second paragraph. Thanks. Bye.

I won't say anymore about this.... because obviously I'm not as informed as any of you.

You are right: Marie is mentioned in this article in connection with a hypothetical question. This question is about whether she will be able to live with Alexandras parents next door or not. I don't read the article as her making any problems. It is simply af question founded on curiousity.

 

[norwegianne]

Sorry, but i just dont see that...


...

But I agree with Lilla and stand by what I have already said; the article does not blame Marie in any way, shape or form.

I agree that the Politiken article does not blame Marie - but the BT article (from June this summer) that was also posted poses (directly or indirectly) the question of what will happen to the Manleys when Marie moves in:

Can the dark, French beauty deal with having the parents of Joachim's ex-wife living so close, if she one day moves in at Schackenborg?

It is not blaming Marie. (How can it, when Marie had no official status at Schackenborg or in Denmark at the point?) It is, however, as CasiraghiTrio pointed out, speculative in what Marie's reaction to having the ex-in-laws as neighbours.

It will be interesting to see where in the world the Manley's end up.
An article posted here tells us this:

Princess Alexandra's parents, Christa and Richard Manley moved permanently into a flat on the first floor of the driver's residence at Schackenborg Manor this year [2002]. They are both EU citizens and prefer life as retired in Europe.

 

[CasiraghiTrio]

So I wasn't blaming Marie either. I just misunderstood the context because my understanding of Danish sucks. Does someone know about my Novotny question?

But I should thank you guys for clarifying the context. No sense or fairness in pointing a finger at a writer for "blaming" someone when it's not really the case. They were just speculating that it might bother Marie if the Manleys stay after the marriage, not saying she has a stated or verified personal opinion or anything like that. So thanks. I'm sorry for being such a pain in the you know where. Yesterday was a crap day and today is pretty much turning out that way too.... I gotta turn this around....

 

[Lilla]

So I wasn't blaming Marie either. I just misunderstood the context because my understanding of Danish sucks. Does someone know about my Novotny question?

I'm sorry for being such a pain in the you know where. Yesterday was a crap day and today is pretty much turning out that way too.... I gotta turn this around....

I never read your posts as if you were blaming Marie - only that you had misunderstood the articles because they were written in danish

So you are not a pain in the.......! Actually I find it quit amasing that you can read an article written in danish. Not getting everething compleatly right is ok and undertandeble as you don't live in Denmark

 

[CasiraghiTrio]

Well, Danish is difficult for me. I don't know why. I mean, it's a germanic language like English, and German is not as difficult for me. Even Russian and French are not nearly so difficult for me as Danish. But I never formally studied Danish and that must be the reason. I studied French and Russian in school and intend to study more of both of them. I want to travel in Denmark very much and think perhaps with a little time in Denmark, I might be able to understand the language at last.

BTW, I am hoping that "Novotny" is a rare Polish family name, because it is the name of my best pal, and she might be a cousin of Alexandra. It's interesting because she (my friend) is a virtual clone of Crown Princess Victoria (we often joke about this).

 

[Heike]

Is it also spelled Novotny. I just wonder if these are the same names. Is it a common or not-so common Polish family name?

I think it´s quite a common name. Alexandra´s mother is Austrian with Polish heritage. There are also Germans calling Nowotny. The spelling way of Novotny, I guess, is an adaptation to the English pronunciation when they emmigrate to USA or Canada etc. Or maybe the spelling way of Nowotny is an adaptation to the German pronunciation when they move to Austria or Germany. I am not sure. We should see how it is pronounced originally in Polish. I know a Polish girl calling Sylwia. It´s equivalence of Sylvia in English. So maybe it´s more likely that Novotny is an adapted form.
Manley is also a common name in Great Britain, I guess.

 

[CasiraghiTrio]

Thank you, Heike. I am sure that Manley is also fairly common.
Actually, on the subject of "common" names, there is a funny editor's letter in this month's (US) Vanity Fair, in which editor Graydon Carter talks about how many hits various US politicians receive in name databases.

 

[burongkakak]

All the best, Countess Alexandra. You deserve it!

 

[Serene Rose]

Love this thread.. thanks a lot. I love Alexandra, Countess of Frederiksborg; she will always be a Princess for me. .

 

[Marc23]

BTW, I am hoping that "Novotny" is a rare Polish family name, because it is the name of my best pal, and she might be a cousin of Alexandra. It's interesting because she (my friend) is a virtual clone of Crown Princess Victoria (we often joke about this).

The earliest known Nowotny ancestor of Countess Alexandra, whose residence was known, was Ferdinand Nowotny, born in 1794 and died in 1861 in Wien.

This Ferdinand Nowotny was married to Karoline Zwilling von Teschenthal (1808-1885).

This Karoline was daughter of certain Baron Vincenz Zwilling(died in 1855) and Caroline von Teschenthal(1788-1855).

I found that this Vincenz Zwilling was "Administrator of all Goods of Archduke Franz Karl, jubilierter and Emeritus Director of the Directorate."

They were the owners of Palace Rajsko:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Palace_in_Rajsko

This is the article about the palace, restoration and previous owners, in Polish:

https://gazetakrakowska.pl/tajemnic...iel-chce-przywrocic-mu-dawny-blask/ar/9913476

Ferdinand Nowotny and Karoline Zwilling von Teschenthal had a son, Karl Ferdinand Vincenz Nowotny(1836-1881) who married Elisabeth Lauter von Lauterbach(born in 1832) from Hungary.

They all were ancestors of Alexandra, Countess of Frederiksborg. It seems she has some noble ancestry after all.

 

[Marc23]

This Ferdinand Nowotny was married to Karoline Zwilling von Teschenthal (1808-1885).

This Karoline was daughter of certain Baron Vincenz Zwilling(died in 1855) and Caroline von Teschenthal(1788-1855).

I found that this Vincenz Zwilling was "Administrator of all Goods of Archduke Franz Karl, jubilierter and Emeritus Director of the Directorate."

And it seems that this Caroline von Teschenthal (1788-1855) was daughter of Johann Kastner, Edler von Teschenthal.

This Johann, Edler von Teschenthal was officially "Administrator der herzogl. Kanneralgüter"(if someone knows the exact translation) in Duchy of Teschen, which may explain why his son in law Baron Vincenz Zwilling(died in 1855) also "inherited" the position of his father in law as "Administrator", but this time "of all Goods of Archduke Franz Karl."

 

[Thomas von Zastrow]

And it seems that this Caroline von Teschenthal (1788-1855) was daughter of Johann Kastner, Edler von Teschenthal.

This Johann, Edler von Teschenthal was officially "Administrator der herzogl. Kanneralgüter"(if someone knows the exact translation) in Duchy of Teschen, which may explain why his son in law Baron Vincenz Zwilling(died in 1855) also "inherited" the position of his father in law as "Administrator", but this time "of all Goods of Archduke Franz Karl."

The earliest known Nowotny ancestor of Countess Alexandra, whose residence was known, was Ferdinand Nowotny, born in 1794 and died in 1861 in Wien.

This Ferdinand Nowotny was married to Karoline Zwilling von Teschenthal (1808-1885).

This Karoline was daughter of certain Baron Vincenz Zwilling(died in 1855) and Caroline von Teschenthal(1788-1855).

I found that this Vincenz Zwilling was "Administrator of all Goods of Archduke Franz Karl, jubilierter and Emeritus Director of the Directorate."

They were the owners of Palace Rajsko:

Category:Palace in Rajsko - Wikimedia Commons

This is the article about the palace, restoration and previous owners, in Polish:

Tajemnice paÅacu w Rajsku. Nowy wÅaÅciciel chce przywróciÄ mu dawny blask

Ferdinand Nowotny and Karoline Zwilling von Teschenthal had a son, Karl Ferdinand Vincenz Nowotny(1836-1881) who married Elisabeth Lauter von Lauterbach(born in 1832) from Hungary.

They all were ancestors of Alexandra, Countess of Frederiksborg. It seems she has some noble ancestry after all.

She was evidently of German noble descent, like.My last name came from a place in coastal Pomerania.

Does anyone know anything about Alexandra's paternal grandparents? I had read somewhere that she had visited family in Shanghai before. I'd be interested in knowing how they met and whether Alex's grandmother gave her dad a Chinese name. Or if Alex has a Chinese name? Do either her dad or her speak Chinese at all?

Alexandra's grandmother's surname is Madar, and she has Chinese, Japanese and Persian ancestry. Her grandmother's father's name is Omar Madar, and her mother's surname is Shirazee, which is obviously from Iran. But Alexandra's grandmother seems to be a Christian instead of a Muslim. Alexandra's grandfather is half Chinese (Yue Chinese) and half British, and only Alexandra's great-grandfather is a pure British. In other words, Alexandra's father is more than half Chinese, so Alexandra has such a distinct Asian style. Alexandra may speak average Mandarin, but she speaks fluent Cantonese and has a Chinese name called 文雅丽(Cantonese pronunciation: men nga lei, Mandarin pronunciation: Wen Yali).

I think Chinese is one of the languages Alexandra speaks, though I'm not sure if it Mandarin or Cantonese. Maybe both since she worked in Hong Kong for a while before marrying Joachim?

I don't know if she can speak Mandarin, but she can speak Cantonese.

 

[Toledo]

Thanks for posting about this family I didn't know about. That Palace Rajsko is just beautiful and I'm glad the new owner will be restoring it. It could take years but hope, as it develops and it re opens, the new owner films everything done on the restoration and is available on TV or YouTube.

And, a warm welcome to the Royal Forums to @Thomas von Zastrow !!!!

 

[hereditarytitles]

She was evidently of German aristocratic descent, like myself, whose last name came from a place in coastal Pomerania.

There is no word called "Kanneralgüter", but in those times there was a profession called "Kameraladministrator", that is long out of use. Here is an explanation of the profession
I translated from English to German:

The term cameralism, derived from cameralism, is a term used to describe public administration and the public companies and municipal enterprises associated with it. Cameralists were senior civil servants in the “Kammerkollegium” of a (German) prince.

In a broader sense, cameralistics refers to the so-called cameral science, i.e. the science of state administration (accounting, finance, economics, administration, law and police science) and national economic policy, as it was practiced until the 20th century.

In a narrower sense, cameralistics refers to a sub-discipline of cameral science, namely the bookkeeping of cameralists, which is still practised today. Many "Kameraladministrators" were called "Edler", one of the lower titles of nobility.

Kameralgüter, Gemeindegrundstücke - Deutsche Digitale Bibliothek

www.deutsche-digitale-bibliothek.de

 

[Thomas von Zastrow]

What are the names of Alex's grandparents? (does anybody know Alex's grandparents from her dad's side, and those from her mum's side?)

Alexandra's grandmother's surname is Madar, and she has Chinese, Japanese and Persian ancestry. Her grandmother's father's name is Omar Madar, and her mother's surname is Shirazee, which is obviously from Iran. But Alexandra's grandmother seems to be a Christian instead of a Muslim. Alexandra's grandfather is half Chinese (Yue Chinese) and half British, and only Alexandra's great-grandfather is a pure British. In other words, Alexandra's father is more than half Chinese, so Alexandra has such a distinct Asian style. Alexandra may speak average Mandarin, but she speaks fluent Cantonese and has a Chinese name called 文雅丽(Cantonese pronunciation: men nga lei, Mandarin pronunciation: Wen Yali). The surnames of several of Alexandra's Chinese ancestors that I found were Lee (李) and Ho (何).

There is no word called "Kanneralgüter", but in those times there was a profession called "Kameraladministrator", that is long out of use. Here is an explanation of the profession
I translated from English to German:

The term cameralism, derived from cameralism, is a term used to describe public administration and the public companies and municipal enterprises associated with it. Cameralists were senior civil servants in the “Kammerkollegium” of a (German) prince.

In a broader sense, cameralistics refers to the so-called cameral science, i.e. the science of state administration (accounting, finance, economics, administration, law and police science) and national economic policy, as it was practiced until the 20th century.

In a narrower sense, cameralistics refers to a sub-discipline of cameral science, namely the bookkeeping of cameralists, which is still practised today. Many "Kameraladministrators" were called "Edler", one of the lower titles of nobility.

Kameralgüter, Gemeindegrundstücke - Deutsche Digitale Bibliothek

www.deutsche-digitale-bibliothek.de

Thx. No need to translate into German, I am an American citizen, I just live in Germany. I have Chinese, Polish and German ancestry

谢谢你分享了关于这个我不认识的家庭的故事。拉兹斯科宫真是太美了，我很高兴新主人会修复它。这可能需要几年时间，但希望随着宫殿的扩建和重新开放，新主人能把修复过程的每一个细节都拍下来，放在电视或YouTube上播放。

热烈欢迎 @Thomas von Zastrow 来到皇家论坛！！！！：花朵：

THANKS

 

[Toledo]

@Thomas von Zastrow I've never seem my post translated to Chinese on a reply! Thanks, that was so cool to see!

 

[Muhler]

Congratulations on your first posts, Thomas von Zastrow. I believe Cantonese is very much spoken in Hong Kong. Alexandra took lessons in Mandarin, quite a few years ago, after the divorce from Joachim IIRC. Whether it was to brush up on basic Mandarin or to learn it from scratch is an open question.

 

[Thomas von Zastrow]

Congratulations on your first posts, Thomas von Zastrow. I believe Cantonese is very much spoken in Hong Kong. Alexandra took lessons in Mandarin, quite a few years ago, after the divorce from Joachim IIRC. Whether it was to brush up on basic Mandarin or to learn it from scratch is an open question.

Since both Cantonese and Mandarin belong to the Sinitic language group of the Sino-Tibetan language family and have similar grammar, it would not be too difficult for Alexandra, who speaks Cantonese, to learn Mandarin.