The Duke and Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 9: August 2023 -


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
I think dropping the lawsuit has more to do with Harry having to turn over his personal documents to the DM and the field day they would have publishing this info til the end of time more than anything else. Probably dropped the suit at the last minute hoping to avoid this legally.
Discovery is a part of every court case, though. If you bring a suit against another party, you not only have to be prepared to share all the documents and evidence you have pertaining to the subject of the lawsuit, but you also have to prepare to be deposed (I.e., asked questions under oath by the opposing side's attorneys). While there are parameters for what can be discussed at deposition, the evidentiary standards are much lower than what can be asked in court and lawyers are given latitude to explore any issues that may somehow be relevant to the facts of your case. For instance, Harry and Meghan's conversations and correspondence with each other and others about leaving the royal family would be fair game because they might shed light on any concerns, understandings, and agreements they had about their security.

There's no way Harry's lawyers wouldn't have explained this to him at the outset of the case. The only thing I can imagine is that they hoped they might get summary judgment in their favor before any discovery, but that never happens. I can't imagine a single lawyer naive enough to even think it was a possibility.
 
If anyone else should wish to refresh their memory about this legal case:


This was the article (19 February 2022) which triggered the Duke's lawsuit:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...arry-tried-legal-fight-bodyguards-secret.html


This was the first ruling in the case (8 July 2022), in which the judge ruled that the meaning of the article was defamatory (in other words, it was seriously damaging to the Duke's reputation):

https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2022/1755.html

Quoting from the judgment (the underlining was inserted by the judge):

26. In my judgment, the natural and ordinary meaning of the Article is as follows:

(a) in his legal claim against the Home Office over the provision of police protection, the Claimant had initially sought confidentiality restrictions that were far-reaching and unjustifiably wide and were rightly challenged by the Home Office on the grounds of transparency and open justice;

(b) the Claimant was responsible for public statements, issued on his behalf, which claimed that he was willing to pay for police protection in the UK, and that his legal challenge was to the Government's refusal to permit him to do so, whereas the true position, as revealed in documents filed in the legal proceedings, was that he had only made the offer to pay after the proceedings had commenced; and

(c) as such, the Claimant was responsible for attempting to mislead and confuse the public as to the true position, which was ironic given that he now held a public role in tackling "misinformation".

27. The underlined passages of the meaning are expressions of opinion, the balance makes allegations of fact. I am satisfied that these meanings are defamatory at common law, albeit only narrowly in respect of (a).

Note that, as revealed in the second ruling, the Duke of Sussex dropped his complaint over meaning (a).


This was the second ruling in the case (8 December 2023), in which the judge ruled that he would permit the case to go to trial instead of giving summary judgment in favor of the Duke of Sussex. In the judge's opinion, the Daily Mail's publisher had a real chance of being able to prove at trial that an honest person could have (based on the facts) held the defamatory opinions about the Duke expressed in the Daily Mail article (this is a recognized legal defense for publishing defamatory statements).

https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/KB/2023/3120.html

Quoting from the judgment:

62. Overall, it is not fanciful that the Defendant [Associated Newspapers Limited] will be successful, at trial, in demonstrating that the public statements issued on the Claimant's [Duke of Sussex's] behalf sought to promote the JR [Judicial Review] claim as his battle against the Government's (perverse) decision to refuse to allow him to pay for his own security. There is a real prospect that the Defendant will succeed in demonstrating that this was a misleading description of the issues in the JR claim, arguably promoted because it was hoped to show the Claimant's JR claim in a positive light, whereas a portrayal of the JR claim as the Claimant trying to force the Government to reinstate his (tax-payer funded) State security risked his appearing in a negative light. I anticipate that, at trial, the Defendant may well submit that this was a masterclass in the art of "spinning". And, the Defendant argues, it was successful in misleading and/or confusing the public. The resulting media coverage relied upon by the Defendant did, indeed, characterise the JR claim as the Claimant's challenge to the Government's refusal of his offer to pay (see [26] above).​
 
Last edited:
Also glad that the summary judgement got thrown out and they’ll go to trail. The Mail on Sunday went from presenting what was printed as fact and now it’s an ‘honest’ opinion when pressed.

I do not understand the reasoning behind your second statement.

First, it was the judge who ruled - in his first verdict - on which claims in the article were allegations of fact and which were expressions of opinion. Of course, the Mail's publisher and the Duke were obliged to follow the judge's first verdict in their arguments leading up to the second verdict, on which you were commenting.

Second, the contentious claim which the judge ruled to be an expression of opinion was the claim that (in the judge's words)

"the Claimant was responsible for attempting to mislead and confuse the public as to the true position, which was ironic given that he now held a public role in tackling 'misinformation'".​

In my opinion, this appears to refer to the following quote from the article:

"That led to fury last night that aides acting for Harry sought to confuse the mainstream media's response to the story, ironic given the Prince now has a role with a Silicon Valley firm tackling 'misinformation' online."​

Where did the Mail present this comment about being "ironic" as fact?

Note: The links to the article and to the two judgments are in my previous post above.
 
Last edited:
Prince Harry abandons libel case against the Mail on Sunday – on the day he was due to hand over list of documents - leaving him facing a £750,000 legal bill
By Sam Greenhill, Chief Reporter For The Daily Mail
Published: 08:31 EST, 19 January 2024 | Updated: 09:58 EST, 19 January 2024
[...]
... at 10.06am, Harry's lawyers informed the newspaper it had filed a notice with the court stating: 'The Duke of Sussex discontinues all of this claim.'

The case concerned an article published in February 2022 reporting Harry's separate legal action against the Home Office for withdrawing his police bodyguards. That case is still ongoing.

The Mail on Sunday's article said Harry had tried to keep his Home Office battle secret from the public.

And it said the duke's 'PR machine tried to put a positive spin on the dispute' by claiming Harry had offered to pay personally for the police protection – when at the time the Home Office had received no such offer.

But the duke complained the story suggested that he had 'improperly and cynically tried to manipulate and confuse public opinion'.

He launched his libel action saying the article had been 'an attack on his honesty and integrity'. The Mail on Sunday always contested the claim and stood by its journalism.
[...]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...el-case-against-Mail-Sunday-security-row.html
Thank you, you made this very clear !:flowers:
 
The Duke of Sussex was honoured for his work as military pilot at the Living Legend of Aviation awards ceremony in Los Angeles:


** dailymail article **

I'd say it's nice for the organizers that he attended in person, i'm sure it will bring lots of PR for their organisation, and getting kids interested in aviation (i think that is one of their goals).
And before we start to question the value of this honour, i for one am glad that Harry gets in the media for on positive note for once :flowers: Let's hope future news is more like this and he can get over lamenting over everyone who wronged him..
 
Yes I think he did bring some needed PR to a good cause. And great to see Harry in such high spirits. He seemed to be thoroughly enjoying himself.
 
Seeing the Duke of Sussex with the fake 'prince' Mario Max of Schaumburg-Lippe gave me a good chuckle. I still remember how he [MM Schaumburg-Lippe] threatened to sue this forum for pointing out that his name at birth was Mario-Helmut Wagner 13 years ago or so. Mario-Helmut was adopted by Princess Helga-Lee of Schaumburg Lippe and later on by his stepfather Waldemar. He has been flaunting the ‘title’ in reality shows and such for years, much to the dismay of the members of the house of Schaumburg-Lippe. I believe they issued a statement of some kind. Though legally he is perfectly allowed to use the last name ‘prinz von Schaumburg-Lippe’ it does not make him a prince.

I still remember the very curious videos he made for youtube, pretending his stepfather and his mother were followed by paparazzis while shopping in Vienna or Munich IIRC. And I also wonder what toy order he has attached to his suit. It is interesting how these kind of people just keep coming back like weeds you can't get rid of.
 
Last edited:
Glad to see he more relaxed for a chance and without Meghan around he was able to be the center of attention in a social event.

Re Awards, the more I read about them the more I see it as another self-congratulatory crowd that are not really legends but sponsors of things involving aviation. True they include the occasional real legend into the lists to state representation but is just rich people patting themselves on their backs to me.

Notes from the article
Re Travolta: I'm glad to see Travolta as he really is and without that thing on his head that should be only used in movies if needed. At his age he looks great and now he sets the example you don't need to feel bad for hair loss, just grow a beard and you look like royalty.

Re Jeff Bezos' wife - OMG, please stop. Really, stop. Why, why, why people think features that never needed improvement to start with need all those extras.

Re: Prince Harry - I wish he would have started the speech extending an olive branch to turn all bad press around. As in wishing his father and sister-in-law a prompt recovery on their conditions. That's it.
 
Last edited:
Seeing him with the fake 'prince' Mario Max of Schaumburg-Lippe gave me a good chuckle. I still remember how he [MM Schaumburg-Lippe] threatened to sue this forum for pointing out that his name at birth was Mario-Helmut Wagner 13 years ago or so. Mario-Helmut was adopted by Princess Helga-Lee of Schaumburg Lippe and later on by his stepfather Waldemar. He has been flaunting the ‘title’ in reality shows and such for years, much to the dismay of the members of the house of Schaumburg-Lippe. I believe they issued a statement of some kind. Though legally he is perfectly allowed to use the last name ‘prinz von Schaumburg-Lippe’ it does not make him a prince.

I still remember the very curious videos he made for youtube, pretending his stepfather and his mother were followed by paparazzis while shopping in Vienna or Munich IIRC. And I also wonder what toy order he has attached to his suit. It is interesting how these kind of people just keep coming back like weeds you can't get rid of.

What?!?! :eek: You almost made me spit out my coffee :lol:

OMG now I want to read more but I have to log out and start packing the car for the trip. I'll be back tonight ;)
 
Glad to see he more relaxed for a chance and without Meghan around he was able to be the center of attention in a social event.

Re Awards, the more I read about them the more I see it as another self-congratulatory crowd that are not really legends but sponsors of things involving aviation. True they include the occasional real legend into the lists to state representation but is just rich people patting themselves on their backs to me.

Notes from the article
Re Travolta: I'm glad to see Travolta as he really is and without that thing on his head that should be only used in movies if needed. At his age he looks great and now he sets the example you don't need to feel bad for hair loss, just grow a beard and you look like royalty.

Re Jeff Bezos' wife - OMG, please stop. Really, stop. Why, why, why people think features that never needed improvement to start with need all those extras.

Re: Prince Harry - I wish he would have started the speech extending an olive branch to turn all bad press around. As in wishing his father and sister-in-law a prompt recovery on their conditions. That's it.

Harry saying anything about his family in general but especially at this event would've been a bad mood. Overall, he's currently doing what everyone wanted, not talking about them. If it he said anything in general, people would complain that his well-wishes were not needed. He's taking the focus off those who are sick and he truly doesn't mean and it's his way of trying to fit himself back into the family.

And this event isn't the time to extended any olive-branches or talk about anyone's health.

It's best, if he did say anything to have sent a quick message wishing them well and leaving everything at that.
 
Harry saying anything about his family in general but especially at this event would've been a bad mood. Overall, he's currently doing what everyone wanted, not talking about them. If it he said anything in general, people would complain that his well-wishes were not needed. He's taking the focus off those who are sick and he truly doesn't mean and it's his way of trying to fit himself back into the family.

And this event isn't the time to extended any olive-branches or talk about anyone's health.

It's best, if he did say anything to have sent a quick message wishing them well and leaving everything at that.

I agree ( there is a shocker ) , IMO Harry is in a no win situation. I just hope that he has extended an olive branch in private and it stays private from both sides.

I hope Harry says nothing publicly and if asked the palace say we do not comment on private matters. That way nobody can be sure if contact was made. Therefore neither side can be deemed to be wrong. Even the fact I used the words either side shows what a sad situation this all is.
 
Sorry but the awards are a joke. I don’t doubt some of the recipients are worthy - Buzz Aldrin for example. But of the whole it seems a bunch of famous people self congratulating themselves and making themselves feel important.
The fact there is a “fake” Prince there says it all.
 
Though legally he is perfectly allowed to use the last name ‘prinz von Schaumburg-Lippe’ it does not make him a prince.

That is also true for the rest of the family (even if aside from him and his father Waldemar most are much more discreet). Legally the German nobility was abolished by the Weimar Constitution in 1919 and the "titles" such as prince are now merely part of the last name.
 
Last edited:
I agree ( there is a shocker ) , IMO Harry is in a no win situation. I just hope that he has extended an olive branch in private and it stays private from both sides.

I hope Harry says nothing publicly and if asked the palace say we do not comment on private matters. That way nobody can be sure if contact was made. Therefore neither side can be deemed to be wrong. Even the fact I used the words either side shows what a sad situation this all is.

I can believe that Harry knows details about his father but I doubt that he knows more that we do re Kate.
Knowing how protective William is of Kate, he would go ABSOLUTELY ballistic if the Sussex camp would spill any beans on health issues or family worries about her. William will never risk telling Harry anything that could end up in papers or books, especially not about his own family. Not after everything that has happened.
 
The awards aren't a joke just because you don't like who's there or you don't like who received an award. And it's insulting to the non-celebrities who also received an award. There are more non-celeb's or famous people who received the award, those did nothing greater than serving their country.

[.....]
 
Last edited by a moderator:
A reminder that none of us actually know any member of the royal family , so members of the forum making definitive statements about what someone thinks, or feels, or will or won't do falls under the heading of "speculative" which is against forum rules. We give a certain amount of leeway, but a post crosses the line when it assumes authority that no one here has.
 
Last edited:
These are the issues that your legal team should point out at the start and maybe they did and he decided to take the chance that it would work in his favour.
Yes, you would have hoped the lawyers would have pointed that out in advance. If they didn’t, then I might question the competence of the legal team. If they did point it out, it would be similar to other advice that wasn’t taken. I just hope his inheritance doesn’t all get spent on lawyers fees and court costs. I often wonder if he has advisors who truly have his best interests in the forefront:whistling:
 
Yes, you would have hoped the lawyers would have pointed that out in advance. If they didn’t, then I might question the competence of the legal team. If they did point it out, it would be similar to other advice that wasn’t taken. I just hope his inheritance doesn’t all get spent on lawyers fees and court costs. I often wonder if he has advisors who truly have his best interests in the forefront:whistling:

Agree, it's possible that his lawyers did point this out and he wasn't willing to listen to their advice.
 
Last edited:
Not sure why anyone is insulted or think this award is a joke. It's an award in recognition of someone's achievements and whether or not you agree is fine [.....]
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Yes, you would have hoped the lawyers would have pointed that out in advance. If they didn’t, then I might question the competence of the legal team. If they did point it out, it would be similar to other advice that wasn’t taken. I just hope his inheritance doesn’t all get spent on lawyers fees and court costs. I often wonder if he has advisors who truly have his best interests in the forefront:whistling:


I've wondered the same Royalist.in.NC especially when it comes to his litigation matters.
 
Harry saying anything about his family in general but especially at this event would've been a bad mood. Overall, he's currently doing what everyone wanted, not talking about them. If it he said anything in general, people would complain that his well-wishes were not needed. He's taking the focus off those who are sick and he truly doesn't mean and it's his way of trying to fit himself back into the family.

And this event isn't the time to extended any olive-branches or talk about anyone's health.
It's best, if he did say anything to have sent a quick message wishing them well and leaving everything at that.


I agree that speaking publicly about health concerns. would not be in anyone's best interest. Sending a private and simple message of concern and good wishes for recovery would be the right decision IMHO.
 
Seeing the Duke of Sussex with the fake 'prince' Mario Max of Schaumburg-Lippe gave me a good chuckle. I still remember how he [MM Schaumburg-Lippe] threatened to sue this forum for pointing out that his name at birth was Mario-Helmut Wagner 13 years ago or so. Mario-Helmut was adopted by Princess Helga-Lee of Schaumburg Lippe and later on by his stepfather Waldemar. He has been flaunting the ‘title’ in reality shows and such for years, much to the dismay of the members of the house of Schaumburg-Lippe. I believe they issued a statement of some kind. Though legally he is perfectly allowed to use the last name ‘prinz von Schaumburg-Lippe’ it does not make him a prince.

I still remember the very curious videos he made for youtube, pretending his stepfather and his mother were followed by paparazzis while shopping in Vienna or Munich IIRC. And I also wonder what toy order he has attached to his suit. It is interesting how these kind of people just keep coming back like weeds you can't get rid of.

All those Germany royal houses of Schaumburg-Lippe were abolished long time ago, so all those German princes and princesses are fake, not just Mario Max.
 
If the awards were serious then Harry’s pilot (as he was copilot) would be receiving an award as well or indeed every apache crew who flew in Afghanistan. Harry is getting this award because he is a famous person who flew a helicopter. That isn’t a bad thing but there is no need for a medal and an “award”.
 
All those Germany royal houses of Schaumburg-Lippe were abolished long time ago, so all those German princes and princesses are fake, not just Mario Max.
They are as fake as are the former royals of Greece, Bulgaria, Romania etc.
In in contrast to Mario Max their ancestors reigned over a small part of Germany vor centuries
 
The awards aren't a joke just because you don't like who's there or you don't like who received an award. And it's insulting to the non-celebrities who also received an award. There are more non-celeb's or famous people who received the award, those did nothing greater than serving their country.

[.....]

From my perspective, it's not that I "don't like" people who might receive an award; it's the credibility of the award for Harry that can be questioned. Harry is no more a hero of aviation than any other person who served in the capacity as helicopter gunner in a war zone. The only reason he was given the award is because he is a celebrity, brings profile to the event, and has a hard-working agent. In my mind, that makes it less of an award and more of a gig. These events are almost all about publicity for the organization, and significantly less about the award itself.
 
From my perspective, it's not that I "don't like" people who might receive an award; it's the credibility of the award for Harry that can be questioned. Harry is no more a hero of aviation than any other person who served in the capacity as helicopter gunner in a war zone. The only reason he was given the award is because he is a celebrity, brings profile to the event, and has a hard-working agent. In my mind, that makes it less of an award and more of a gig. These events are almost all about publicity for the organization, and significantly less about the award itself.

I agree with this. And as I pointed out previously, this is not a particularly reputable or established organization. The “charity” attached has quite poor ratings and a website that hasn’t been updated in seven years.
 
Back
Top Bottom